PSU tier list 2.0

[Vic 40]

It in the end is probably dependent on what's available.In some countries is the CX line or similar maybe the best they have.Well for a certain budget.

 

[PSUGod]

The Delta built Antec Basiq and VP series units are much better options in the same price range compared to the CX 430/500. Reliability isn't even a fair comparison between the two.

It really depends which Antec Basiq or VP you're talking about.

This Antec Basiq 430W: http://www.sweclockers.com/test/12226-nataggregat-i-budgetklassen-2010/4 isn't as good as the Corsair CX430 Bronze.

The Antec VPF450 is indeed better then a Corsair CX430 Bronze because the Antec VPF has better voltage stability because of the DC converters on the secondary side of the PSU. But Corsair just launched a new CX450M which is comparable to the Antec VPF450

From what I've seen delta units seem to be well received by communities like JG and HardOCP for being solid/decent units, does the same apply for their OEM units?

Delta is mostly know for their great PCB lay-out and soldering, but that alone doesn't make a PSU great.

It in the end is probably dependent on what's available.In some countries is the CX line or similar maybe the best they have.Well for a certain budget.

100% true

Why do I bother coming here? No idea. Probably because I don't like seeing such misinformation spread as fact. Just look at the chain of posts:

First: Made up information

Result: Other user than extrapolates that entire company is in the crapper because of said misinformation.

I've said it before in this very thread. In my opinion, this whole list is comprised of misinformation and opinion. And not just Corsair. But Antec, Enermax... This list serves to do little but show fan boyism. But, yes. The one at LTT is a hell of a lot worse.

I think he got a little carried with the tone, but he a lot closer to the truth than most of you would like to admit. The list, itself, is quite sloppy with very questionable standards. I also see group think, supported by very questionable evidence, along with a palpable anti-corsair bias.

I say that as someone who has not been a big fan of recent Corsair offerings, but there is little question in my mind that we have been grossly unfair in our critiques.

Indeed, like it or not. But that's the truth.

He just was pissed because of the fanboy's here, and most fanboys even are moderators and have a power supply badge, but they don't deserve any of that. Because they only post BS about power supplies.

 

[toyftw]

Why do I bother coming here? No idea. Probably because I don't like seeing such misinformation spread as fact. Just look at the chain of posts:

First: Made up information

Result: Other user than extrapolates that entire company is in the crapper because of said misinformation.

I've said it before in this very thread. In my opinion, this whole list is comprised of misinformation and opinion. And not just Corsair. But Antec, Enermax... This list serves to do little but show fan boyism. But, yes. The one at LTT is a hell of a lot worse.

I think he got a little carried with the tone, but he a lot closer to the truth than most of you would like to admit. The list, itself, is quite sloppy with very questionable standards. I also see group think, supported by very questionable evidence, along with a palpable anti-corsair bias.

I say that as someone who has not been a big fan of recent Corsair offerings, but there is little question in my mind that we have been grossly unfair in our critiques.

Agree totally - as a non-mod reading that entire exchange of posts (JG came across a little strong but not rude IMO),
I thought several of the Mods were quite defensive and even outright inflammatory in one instance. Certainly
they were lacking in the forum standards that we users are required to adhere to.

 

[CTurbo]

Well to be fair, the Antec Basic 430w is a relatively old unit from like '09/'10, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure was based off of Delta's oem platform of that period. It SHOULDN'T be as good as a new CX430.

I can't agree that Delta is ONLY known for good soldering and pcb layout. I think Delta is known for excellent build quality in general, and is easily one of the most consistent brands in terms of top notch reliability.

Reliability is the key factor in judging and rating psu IMO, and is the one area where the CX series falls shortest when compared to the competition.

And when I say competition, I'm not talking about Logisys, Diablotek, Hercules, etc... The CX series are obviously not fire hazards.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Already told you, almost everything.

Of course I don't agree with cheap Corsair power supplies being bad. If you want a bad power supply look at manufacturers like Linkworld, Keerda, Leadman or Codegen for example, they know how to make a bad power supply.

If a PSU like the Corsair CX series was bad, then most people in the world probably have a bad power supply. Because there is so much stuff that isn't as good as the Corsair CX series. The Corsair CX series is just a simple budget line from Corsair. If it's a good choice or not depends on the price, but it's no where near bad.

Considering that 99% of our member base that comes here asking about hardware, whether power supply related or not but especially when it's a question regarding a power supply, is either an enthusiast or gamer, your statement is bewildering. Price has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not a unit can hold up in an enthusiast or gaming machine. The demands are far different from any mainstream machine and since most recommendations for the CX series unit, here AND elsewhere, are for systems utilizing gaming cards or overclocking, it does indeed make it a "bad" choice.

If we were talking about a mainstream machine for somebody who plays Pogo or browses the internet as their most demanding process, then you'd be right. That however isn't typically the case and conversations regarding what is good or bad here are generally meant in relation to the system in question being a high demand system. When it is clearly outlined that it is not, recommendations are adjusted accordingly in most cases.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Agree totally - as a non-mod reading that entire exchange of posts (JG came across a little strong but not rude IMO),
I thought several of the Mods were quite defensive and even outright inflammatory in one instance. Certainly
they were lacking in the forum standards that we users are required to adhere to.

People, even moderators, get tired of hearing the same tired garbage as well as having to put up with being insulted not only the sites of some detractors but then also have them intentionally come here to do the same. This is not something that's going to be allowed, nor should it. Every member is a person and deserves to be treated as one whether they are right or wrong in their opinions. Shaming, slandering or insulting commentary is going to be addressed and in some cases that might rather be done sharply.

There is nothing in our guidelines that says we have to do any kissing of hindquarters simply because somebody insists that we do it. Further, repeat offenders, as in this case, are particularly sore spots and it shouldn't even be a question we are discussing in consideration of the supposed professional nature of those involved.

There is a FAR different methodology to "teaching" than there is to belittling or insulting others. Clearly one method was being employed while any attempt at the other was not.

Plus, you came along after some of the original contents of his posts were edited out, so I don't you're qualified to say what was rude and what wasn't. The original content was a lot less professional, and yes, was outright rude. No amount of discussion is going to change what we all know to be acceptable basic tenets of behavior.

 

[FALC0N]

Darkbreeze, I didn't feel he was insulting anyone. A harsh critique of the methods employed here is not an insult. Granted, there may have been more to the back and forth than I observed, as the thread is 63 pages and I haven't read all of it.

As for the behavior of the moderators, I feel that we should all strive to behave with dignity and restraint, regardless of how the opposing side chooses to behave. Bad behavior by someone else doesn't make it ok for us to behave badly.

I also think we should keep in mind that the internet has a way of making things seem harsher than they were intended, especially during heated moments. That's a benefit of the doubt I will give to both sides. So let's all try to move forward with as much class as we can. No purpose is served by allowing the discussion to become personal. Be quick to forgive and slow to be offended.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Darkbreeze, I didn't feel he was insulting anyone.

Keep telling yourself that. These are direct quotes from the JG forum. I don't think I need to tell you who they are from.

Why don't you tell us the application, the budget, your location and feature criteria (quiet, efficient, modular, etc.) and we can help you make an educated choice instead of spoon feeding you a bunch of fan boy garbage?

The list in tom's hardware site, is worse quality than the toilet paper i use, seriously.

As for "Johnny Lucky's" list:

Quote:
factory Recall. Design Flaw. Huge electrical noise problem.
He said that of the BFG ES-800.

Never happened. No idea where he got that from. Totally made up.

^^Clearly, anybody who isn't him, is wrong, or stupid. I don't think making one mistake or accidentally misrepresenting one fact deserves blanket statements like that.



Clearly, despite what he's said in the past,

The entire concept of a tiered list is just silly in my opinion. It's better to rank PSUs relative to each other than waste time trying to make them fit into ranks.

he does in fact believe a tier list is a good idea, and is revamping his own efforts to devise one.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12947

There are a lot more condescending and outright insulting comments I can post for you from there, but I think that's enough to make it clear. That and the fact that he's also made it clear that even mentioning THIS tier list is a bannable offense, is without question in my book, insulting. These people don't mind saying that the problems with this list are due to not enough effort being put into maintaining it and filtering out inaccuracies but then state this on their own site:

Sorry....

As TheMask said, there's a similar list at Tom's, but it's a joke.

I started one on Google Drive that broke things down a lot more, but it's so daunting to maintain that I put it on indefinite hold.

Too daunting for him, with all the resources he has, to create, but it's ok to slam and attempt to shame others who DO put in the work to try and create something useful for people who don't have the level of expertise that EVERY person who slams this list has. Clearly THEY have no need for a list, or so you'd think (But maybe they do since he's bothering to try one again), but others do and they don't require the level of critique that inspires these kinds of derogatory commentary.

I will defend any Tom's hardware member who offers an opinion without violating the rights of other members, or endeavors to create something worthwhile that might be beneficial to our member base, or any member of the moderation team who clearly hasn't gone out of his way to alienate himself from our mission which is to help other members to the best of our ability. Like Mousemonkey said, if you don't like what you see or read here, go elsewhere.

 

[jonnyguru]

People, even moderators, get tired of hearing the same tired garbage as well as having to put up with being insulted not only the sites of some detractors but then also have them intentionally come here to do the same. This is not something that's going to be allowed, nor should it.

Then stop allowing the posting of erroneous information in the first place. Truly moderate. Moderators should moderate themselves. I was asked to provide a link that showed when a statement made by another was false. But there's no burden of proof for someone that wishes to post false statements as the truth?

Facts are facts and opinions are opinions. Don't mix the two.

There is a FAR different methodology to "teaching" than there is to belittling or insulting others. Clearly one method was being employed while any attempt at the other was not.

Because my patience wears thin. You can smack the dog on the nose every day only for so long for pooping on the bed, but eventually he'll have to go back to the pound.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Previous post deleted. I've answered by PM. This is done. Let's move on.

 

[dottorrent]

Okay, first Johnny, please if you must, focus on your own list and forums. If you are here to create an uncontrollable wildfire, then please refrain from doing so. Because simply put, i'm getting bored of this thread becoming a political debate of "This list is terrible. Mine is better."

I do take criticism very seriously. In fact, it's criticism that strives me to improve. Simply saying that this list is horrible and shouldn't exist or creating insults is not constructive criticism, it's bone idle stupidity and childish.

As I have stated before, this list tiers units based not on brand names, 80+ ratings, one person experiences or value for money. This list tiers units based on professional detailed analysis of the key components, power output quality (Ripple, cross loading, etc.) and overall quality of the unit. The reviews come from only people who use the correct testing equipment (that includes your's sir) and shows the results of said tests carried out clearly, with a detailed analysis of the results of said test that is understandable to the reader.

I have seen your list, and it is nicely detailed. I do commend you sir for creating a list. Nothing wrong with competition at all. Please keep your focus on your list, and i'll do the same.

Just please, next time you comment on the list, please let it be either constructive criticism, suggestions or guidance to the general user.

Thank you.

Torrent.

 

[PSUGod]

I do take criticism very seriously. In fact, it's criticism that strives me to improve. Simply saying that this list is horrible and shouldn't exist or creating insults is not constructive criticism, it's bone idle stupidity and childish.

You can say that you don't like it's attitude, but you can't say that it isn't the truth.

As I have stated before, this list tiers units based not on brand names, 80+ ratings, one person experiences or value for money. This list tiers units based on professional detailed analysis of the key components, power output quality (Ripple, cross loading, etc.) and overall quality of the unit. The reviews come from only people who use the correct testing equipment (that includes your's sir) and shows the results of said tests carried out clearly, with a detailed analysis of the results of said test that is understandable to the reader.

If you know that jonnyGURU knows how to make a good review and even say that this list is based on reviews from his site. Then why don't you believe it when he is explaining that this list actually far from the truth?

For example,(and this is only a really small example):
Why is the EVGA SuperNOVA GS in tier 1? It's not as good as for example Andyson Titanium N from tier 2, FSP Aurum Xilenser from tier 3, even the InWin Glacier from tier 4 is probably the better PSU overall. And then in tier 5 there is HEC, even HEC has better PSU's then the EVGA SuperNOVA GS series, not all are of course but they do exists.

I believe that more then 50% from that list is wrong, that's why many people don't like this list.

 

[FALC0N]

Johnnyguru's criticisms are perfectly valid. Several of us have been saying the same thing for a long time. He is just is expressing it in an inappropriate fashion. I wish he wouldn't let his frustrations get the better of him.

 

[PSUGod]

If it's already known that this list is totally bollocks, why isn't it changed or deleted then? At this moment a lot (probably almost all who read it) of people are getting totally misinformed because of this list.

 

[okcnaline]

Which is why quite a few of the forum members suggest to disregard the list...?

 

[Karadjgne]

This is upsetting. Enough so that it's taking me longer to think of acceptable wording, than actually typing it. This list is far from complete or gospel. It's a tool. You want to complain that it's 'totally boollocks' then get off your duff and prove it. Throwing opinions out is totally counterproductive. You say there are good HEC? Bring on the reviews. Instead of trying to cut down the work already done, instead of relying on someone else to do the work for you, throw in your own efforts and help out.

Kudos to Aris_Mp, turkey3_scratch, JG and others for their own attempts and their own lists, but having looked at those lists, all have their criticisms, none are truly unbiased or complete, all of them are setup according to the authors priorities, be it ripple, reliability or looks.

As my wife told my daughter the other day, if you don't like my cooking, either help or cook it your damn self, either way, having done nothing entitles you to nothing, and that includes the right to *itch about the outcome. You don't like it? Don't eat it.

 

[CTurbo]

I think it's impossible to make a list that pleases everybody. If I were to attempt such a list, it would only have 4 tiers total.

1. Good
2. Mediocre
3. Bad
4. Unknown

I would only recommend tier 1 units for power users. Tier 2 would be OK for office uses. Tier 3 would be avoid at all costs, and tier 4 would be not enough info.

I could potentially see tier 1 split into two sub groups to separate the truly excellent units from the group, but it would certainly not be necessary.

 

[RCFProd]

This list is excellent for beginners, and in my opinion It's all what it should be because based from this list if the user purchases one from tier 1 or 2 he is always getting an excellent unit and that's exactly the purpose of this tier list is it not? Right now it shouldn't be judged to be something more than that until it becomes more detailed. Tom's Hardware is getting more beginning computer builders than any other forum, so based on that this list isn't stupid at all. It's excellent for that purpose actually.

 

[Onus]

I favor as few tiers as possible myself.
The nitty-gritty details of PSU quality and selection is beyond anyone's "tier list."
A beginning builder is most likely looking for a simple pass/fail grade. That may depend in part on the type of load, not just its size. Recent graphics card reviews showing just how erratic and spiky their demands can be justify building in a little cushion where, to a point, lesser quality can be offset by increased capacity.

 

[g-unit1111]

I favor as few tiers as possible myself.
The nitty-gritty details of PSU quality and selection is beyond anyone's "tier list."
A beginning builder is most likely looking for a simple pass/fail grade. That may depend in part on the type of load, not just its size. Recent graphics card reviews showing just how erratic and spiky their demands can be justify building in a little cushion where, to a point, lesser quality can be offset by increased capacity.

I'd just simplify it further and have two tiers - "buy" or "don't buy". The more complex you try to make lists, the worse it is for buyers. I think a pass / fail would be much easier than having A/B/C/D/F ratings. No one wants to buy anything from the D or F column, and that's about it. The thing is any manufacturer can build a quality unit, and any manufacturer can build a junker. Either it works or it doesn't.

 

[tiny voices]

So what do people think of the EVGA 700B? I don't think it has a place anywhere. If you need 700w for your PC, you should be spending money for a better unit.

 

[Archaic59]

Not sure. Budget unit for 390X? 750 B2 would be a better choice. I'm not finding much reason to recommend the GQ line either.

 

[Karadjgne]

Absolutely no reason for a 650w+ budget built unit. And don't lump the B2 as budget built, its not, it's quality at a budget price, same as the XFX 550w etc. Those 'budget' units like the 700b,cx700 etc are not built for high end gpu draws, so have no place where they do belong other than in a workstation with 10 hdd.

 

[logainofhades]

Yea the B2 750 is difficult to argue against, but the 850w version is not terribly more expensive, nor is the 750w G2.

http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/compare/evga-power-supply-110b20750vr,evga-power-supply-110b20850v1,evga-power-supply-220g20750xr/

 

[Darkbreeze]

If it's already known that this list is totally bollocks, why isn't it changed or deleted then? At this moment a lot (probably almost all who read it) of people are getting totally misinformed because of this list.

Make your own list, so it can be critiqued by the community as you've clearly decided you are well enough informed to do so, or shut the front door. Period.