PSU tier list 2.0

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Every reviewer has their own opinion on what is a priority. One on JG's pet peeves is short cords. Some reviewers don't consider that in their reviews and some don't really care as many users would either get sleeved extensions for looks or not have a need for long cords in a small case. As an example. So pros and cons need to be taken with a grain of salt. The Evga 550w G2 ranks as one of JG's highest awarded psu's, yet it still fails an ATX standard by a good margin. I own one, it's awesome, performs flawlessly, worth every penny, so who is right? JG or the think tanks who come up with the ATX standards. (which are their opinions put into print). It's a decision only a buyer can make, do the negatives affect the job the psu needs to do for you.
 
I have trouble taking a reviewer seriously, that knocks points for semi modular and price. Score should be strictly performance/quality. Prices change far too much, for it to be a factor. It can be mentioned, in the review, but basing a score on it, is insane. Semi modular and price, should be up to the consumer to decide on, not the reviewer.
 
Well, logain, there are opinions on non vrs semi vrs full too. It's a fact that a solid, hardwired, soldered connection is superior to any kind of manual connection like a modular plug. So by definition, a full modular psu has a con vrs a semi and a serious con vrs a non modular psu. So knocking off points for a psu being semi, or even more points for a psu being non modular is kinda asinine imho. But as I said earlier, its an opinion. Everybody has one (especially me, hah!) but what should be important is the substance of the review, not any particulars the don't pertain to the buyer
 
Perform, sure. Reliability, no way. A solid connection beats a plug anyday. Prongs separate under heat, electricity vibrates to the tune of 60Hz, which a plug is susceptible to and a solid connection isn't. Wear and tear as plugs are inserted, moved, any pin even slightly out of alignment can and will stress the female side etc. No myth. I see it every day. Fix it every day. Metal is metal, there's no new alloys designed in the 'last few years' to compensate for physical limits of a plugs connector liabilities. It's a fact, any break in any wire induces a weak point. A correctly soldered joint is still a break, but it's a much better and more reliable joint than a molex plug. And that's not even mentioning the plug joint to the board itself, which is often susceptible to pressures from insertion of the connector 90° to the joint. A fully modular psu is the worst design from a physical reliability standpoint, a non modular the best.
 
Hi,

I am looking for PSU to go with my gaming PC (did not built yet). I am not planning to overclock.

I wanted to know about Thermaltake Smart SE 530W PSU. I have seen Smart/Smart M series in Tier 4. Is Smart SE part of Tier 4 as well? There are mixed review for it.

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2002368/thermaltake-smart-630w-530w.html
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/thermaltake-smart-630-w-power-supply-review/1/

What about Thermaltake TR2 600W 80 PLUS Gold PSU? Is it good?
Also, is Corsair CSM series good? 80 PLUS Gold-certified efficiency
 
@ darkbreeze, I think SR-71 was talking about the new CXM models which would be only in 450, 550, and 650w flavors. They are much improved from the previous psu shaped objects that was the older CX series. The CX750M in particular is a piece of crap that should have never existed.


@ nzrajput, neither of those are any good.
 
You can pretty much assume that a Tt Smart SE will be part of the Smart series.

You are asking about a TR2 psu. While it's true that there are some OK units in the TR2 lineup, for the most part, the entire line is junk. Trying to figure out just what model you get from which factory to determine if you got one of the 'should be tier 5 units' or a :could almost be tier 3' unit is an exercise in futility for a line of psus that aren't all that good to start with.
 


Vengeance models have been reviewed and CXM models are just Vengeance models with a single rail design instead of multi rail and not all Japanese caps (the Vengeance are all Japanese).

With the reviews that Tomshardware puts out these days, I don't think Jonnyguru cuts it with the testing done anymore. Here is the Silverstone ST80F-Ti review on Tomshardware http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/silverstone-strider-titanium-st80f-ti-psu,4600.html

And the one on Jonnyguru: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=478

Jonnyguru has a limited budget, so it is understandable that it only covers:

1) Progesssive load regulation
2) two crossload scenarios
3) turn-on transient tests
4) ripple
5) internal analysis

Tomshardware/TPU covers:

1) Transient response testing
2) PWR_OK and holdup time testing
3) literally hundreds of automatically run crossloading scenarios and how the corresponding voltages, ripple, and efficiency react to those hundreds (might even be more than a thousand) load scenarios.
4) Infared shots at the internals
5) In general, an even deeper internal analysis
6) Voltage regulation
7) ripple
8) Standby power
9) Turn-on transient tests
10) Protection evaluation

The last one is the best test that has ever been added (just last review it was), since most 800W power supplies are more like 1000W power supplies in reality. For the Silverstone unit, overpower protection kicked in at 1038W. So he load tested it all the way up to that, which resulted in out-of-spec ripple on the Silverstone unit. This brings into question: whose fault is it? Is it the end user's fault for subjecting his computer to loads above the specifications of the power supply's rated amperage? Or is it the power supply's fault for not being able to shut off safely before that stuff goes out of spec?

Well, it's so difficult because OPP and OCP limits are always set so high to take into account those transient spikes. Like how a GTX 970 can spike well into the 350W territory. If we set the limits of these things to the label of the power supply, we would really have to start buying overkill PSUs to prevent them from shutting down. I guess the solution would be expensive, but would revolve around monitoring the average power over a short duration of time and using that instead to determine if the unit should shut down or not.

The current protection ICs operate in a cycle-based manner in that they only check the outputs every so often, like every .75 seconds for instance (spec sheets tell how often, lower is better). Since it checks instantaneous power, those transient spikes could indeed be a problem and shut down the unit if a spike is in progress when the chip is checking everything. That's why the limits are so high. In addition, the shunts used to read this stuff are not always 100% accurate, so the limits are set high in order to be safe.

Maybe whatever surpasses the AXi will have some form of new protection circuitry since the AXi already has purely digital regulation which accounts for its unbelievable voltage stability. These days, the most important testing for a power supply has to be transient response. Take a look at any graphics card power graph and it is constant spikes. It doesn't matter if progressive load regulation is top-notch because when gaming there will never be a constant load, it is always changing. Spikes up and down usually within 5-10A on the 12V rail. Transient response testing is certainly one of the single most important things to test, and hopefully at some point in time JG will upgrade their equipment.

Although I do have to take into question what exact load is being subjected when OPP is tested on the Tomshardware reviews. OPP is measured from the wall, so in a less efficient scenario it will take less power on the rails to trigger OPP< and in a more efficient scenario the computer can be under heavier load before OPP kicks in.
 


I have yet to see any modular cable becoming loose and pc not starting for that, or getting low power for that.

Even if you use non modular power supply, cables soldered in the circuit board, you still have to plug in power cables in the motherboard and other components. Does it not void your argument? As you can not get rid of plugs and solder everything down.
 
I wish Gabriel Torres was still doing reviews. I thought of his as the best, although Aris may have lately passed even Mr. Torres with the additional tests he is now able to do. JG's are certainly not bad, and I enjoy OW's writing style (most of the time, when he's not too pun-crazed), but they've rested on laurels while others have progressed. I like HardOCP too; they can be [appropriately] very unforgiving, such as when reviewing Coolermaster units.
 
Actually it doesn't void the argument. Myself and more than a few others here are old enough to have been around when the pc was invented. I can pretty much be certain that most of us old farts have come across motherboards with connections that have burned out. Probably the most common in recent experience is the 4/8 EPS/supplementary connection in the top rear of the board.. It's a stiff connection and many times its also not seated just right and burns up, or the female gets pushed out of the connector, and burns up. Unfortunately, there really isn't an alternative to these molex connectors, every motherboard on the planet uses them somewhere, so any new design would basically be proprietary, which wouldn't sell. But cutting down on the amount used is one way to lower chances of mishap. And yes, the psu plugs on quite a few full modular psus are not exactly what I'd call sturdy at all, push the connector in too hard and you run a real risk of breaking the 90°joint inside on the pcb.
 


Torres testing was quite limited, Jonnyguru actually tests more than Torres. Torres' teardowns were extremely simple, going over a few basic components (very often failing to even mention what capacitors are used, or how soldering is, or who the OEM is). For voltage regulation, Torres didn't even post the actual voltage values until his later reviews. His were either a "Pass" or "Fail", and he would say if voltages stayed within 5% or 3% for good units. On the other hand, JG and most other sites today don't look as much at how far from nominal the voltage is, rather, they look at how much it changes from small to heavy load.

Torres didn't test the 5VSB rail either, nor crossloading. The one thing he did do that I liked was tested protection circuitry, so kudos to him for that. But he also left out things like the fan, for instance. For back when he reviewed, 2006, that was fine, but once his later reviews in 2013 started coming out I feel he was outmatched by the equipment and more in-depth reviews of the other guys. I don't feel by reading a Torres review I can get a clear enough picture of the power supply, but maybe that's because I want more information. For your average reader, Torres reviews are probably more simple. The best trait Torres has was optimism.

OW is hilarious, but not as funny as he used to be. They eventually told him to tone the humor down a bit, because it was getting excessive. But I liked it!
 


Which brings up a point I wanted to make that those cheap Antec VP450 units don't even have any PFC. On the other hand, the VP450P does.
 


They do have some other redeeming features though. At that price point, something has to give.
 
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