PSU tier list 2.0

[dottorrent]

If all you're gonna do is complain, then please stop commenting on this thread.

You're arguing with guys more experienced than me and you combined in the Tom's Hardware forums and they accepted this list as it was because it is accurate and community managed, not to mention that it needed a refresh as the Newegg Tier list was badly outdated.

 

[Novuake]

RMs are inferior.. Period.

 

[dottorrent]

as if only one has some sort of secret sprinkle it pours over its product to make them better.

Apparrently that sprinkle is weight 😀

 

[FALC0N]

If all you're gonna do is complain, then please stop commenting on this thread.

So your position is that anyone who disagrees with you shouldn't post? Because that is basically what you just wrote. Did you really think nobody would critique the list? If you aren't prepared to defend your choices, how can anybody trust its quality?

You're arguing with guys more experienced than me and you combined in the Tom's Hardware forums and they accepted this list as it was because it is accurate and community managed, not to mention that it needed a refresh as the Newegg Tier list was badly outdated.

I make a point of relying of facts to formulate my opinions and conclusions. I don't concern myself with the opinion of other posters, and neither should you. Either the evidence supports your position or it doesn't. If they present evidence, that is another matter.

Matching their preconceptions is not the same as accuracy. You have huge Seasonic/Superflower representation in tiers 1 and 2. Do you really expect a guy who declares that he wont buy anything not made by Delta, Seasonic, or SuperFlower to argue with that? Of course not. And neither would most people. SuperFlower and Seasonic do great work. However, the rubber hits the road when its time to deal with the lesser know units, and there is room for improvement there.

Instead of getting upset that someone would criticize the list, why don't you just use that as an opportunity to improve it? I realize how difficult such a list is to compile. Nobody expect it to be perfect, but we do expect you to be open minded about input. And I don't get that impression from you up until now.

 

[FALC0N]

RMs are inferior.. Period.

And you base this on..........................

 

[dottorrent]

I'm not silencing anybody for making criticisms. As I have stated, this list is community managed. But if you're gonna make such questionable views on what units should go where, based on style and price, instead of reading word by word reviews by reputable sources, then i'm sorry, I cannot change it.

The RM series of units aren't great. Their first lineup had some pretty poor capacitor choices (aside form the japanese ones), on both sides of CWT and Chicony. Ltec's used in the Chicony units and CapXon capacitors used in the CWT models, on very expensive units. The second lineup had overheating problems, thus Corsair was recalling loads of them.

The third refresh hasn't had issues, but it's safer to leave them in Tier 3, just in case something happens.

 

[ko888]

If Chicony Power Technology is as good an OEM as you say they are then why have Corsair dropped them as an OEM and moved over to CWT for the RM750 and RM850 models? I think it had a lot to do with the higher than normal RMA rates for those Chicony made models.

I actually I don't really know a whole lot about them. It was Oklahoma Wolf, who does the Johnny Guru reviews, who compared Chicony quality to Delta. Until I hear otherwise, from somebody who knows what they are talking about, I am going to run with that.

Oklahoma Wolf was providing his opinion on the cleanliness of the circuit boards from Chicony and Delta. If you're going to provide a reviewer's opinion as fact then you should provide some evidence to back up those opinions.

Reviews don't provide the whole story. They are only a very miniscule sampling of the product. There's no long term testing to determine reliability. The loads used during testing are not real component loads so any potential problems like coil whine are not revealed.

Corsair also dropped Seasonic for all but one unit. By your logic, that must have been quality issues. And how do you know Corsair dropped Chicony? Maybe Chicony dropped Corsair. I do know they one of the bigger OEM's out there and could have had their own reasons for dropping out. If you have evidence of higher RMA rates for the RM, I suggest you present it. So barring any evidence to support your claims, I have to consider your positions pure speculation.

The AX760 and AX860 are still made by Seasonic. The big complaint about the Seasonic made PSUs was coil whine. Reviews don't test for coil whine. You have to rely on customer feedback for that type of information.

Corsair did drop Chicony. Corsair appointed a new Product Manager a few months ago at about the same time that the switch from Chicony to CWT was made for the RM750 and RM850.

I consider a Product Recall on the RM750 and RM850 to be a high RMA rate. Even after Chicony's supposed fix, some users on this forum who purchased these supposedly fixed/revised models, were still reporting overheating problems (confirmed by the lot code of the PSU).

The new RM750 and RM850 models made by CWT are now using all Japanese Nippon Chemi-Con electrolytic capacitors. jonnyGURU even posted some pictures of the interior of the CWT made RM850:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10868&page=12

It looks like the new HXi Series with some modifications.

 

[Karadjgne]

The 2 biggest sellers for Corsair, as shown by pcpartpicker.com anyways, in the US market seem to be the CX and RM. Considering Corsair overall reputation isn't exactly great, it would be nice to see recommendations for a change. With this new (to me anyways) info on Chicony out, CWT in, with a quality RM with good caps and fixed thermals, maybe it's time to revise the list a little and slap the RM's (after a certain date) up a couple tiers?

And just to throw a bone, I've been around the custom pc business since the days of the Vic20 and Commodore 64, and I've seen many different psus. But lately there has been a somewhat explosion in custom built pc's and I'm seeing brands I've never seen or heard of. Are they good? No idea. So what do I have to work with? 2 lists. 1 being the OEM Who's Who, the other being this list, put together with some compassion and understanding on what a decent or not so decent psu is supposed to be, and no small amount of effort, that I didn't have to deal with, to find and read and understand a butt load of others reviews.

So Thank You dottorrent, and others, for all your hard work and effort, and for making my life, at least, somewhat easier and less stressful.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Dottorent sucks. I mean, he has to. Otherwise, why would he go through all the trouble of researching, reading, compiling, scoring and otherwise assigning values to all those power supplies? What is he, nuts? Who would do that? What kind of person pores over details, reviews, specs, more reviews, data sheets, other lists and spends time getting a feel for the general consensus regarding a bunch of stupid power supplies? Anybody that dedicated either has to have a serious case of OCD or is just plain obsessed, right? Right?


C'mon, give the guy a break. Anytime somebody else wants to or thinks they can do a better and more thorough job, ain't nothing stopping you but fear and common sense. Get after it. If you don't like his list, make one. Ain't nobody forcing you to reference his tier list. Look at Blackbird, he doesn't use it. You don't have to either. You know why you do? Because he's already done the legwork so you don't have to. So if you're going to use it, don't complain or snivel. Making suggestions or pointing out inaccuracies that are demonstrable and fact based are one thing, bitter criticisms are another.


Wonder what happened with the Jonnyguru list he was gonna do? I've looked at it recently and it hasn't changed in quite some time, still looks like it did not long after he started it two months ago, or was it three? There's another guy who has nothing better to do right? Right? At least we KNOW he's busy, what's your excuse? Some people. Heh.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

Certainly not worth $90, not with better units costing less.

This might break your Corsair is still quality bubble.

" Here are the 5 models with the highest return rates during the time period:

- 3,64% Corsair Gaming Series GS600
- 3,59% Corsair CX500 V2
- 3,59% Corsair CX600 V2
- 3,39% FSP (Fortron) HEXA 500
- 3,31% Seasonic S12II-520"


RAM:

" Average Failure rates:

- Kingston 0,20% (vs 0,27% year before)
- Crucial 0,39% (vs 0,30% year before)
- G.Skill 0,95% (vs 1,01% year before)
- Corsair 1,18% (vs 1,06% year before)

The rankings stay the same from the previous year. Kingston and G-skill reduce their failure rates, while it increases for Crucial and Corsair.

Here are the 5 products with the most returns:

- 4,92% : Corsair Vengeance 16 GB (4x4) DDR3 1600 CL9
- 4,46% : Corsair Vengeance LP Black 16 GB (4x4) DDR3 1600 CL9
- 4,35% : Corsair Vengeance LP Blue 16 GB (4x4) DDR3 1600 CL9
- 3,46% : Corsair XM3 8 GB (2x4) DDR3 1333 CL9
- 3,31% : Corsair XM3 16 GB (2x8) DDR3 1600 CL11

Corsair apparently had some problems with it's DDR3 kits during this time period, notably vengeance kits."

"Here again, we don't take see any memory kits with over 5% return rates, nevertheless here are the 5 kits with the highest return rates:


- 4,41% Corsair XMS 4 GB (2x2) DDR3 1333 CL9
- 4,14% Corsair XMS3 8 GB (2x4) DDR3 1333 CL9
- 3,63% Corsair Value Select 8 GB DDR3 1333 CL9
- 2,73% Corsair Mac Memory SO-DIMM 8 GB (2x4) DDR3 1066 CL7
- 2,67% Corsair Vengeance SO-DIMM 16 GB (2x8) DDR3 1600 CL10

Just like the last article we only see corsair models in this ranking, however this time around the models with the highest failure rates are not necessarily the highest end ones (vengeance series). "


That all comes from here.

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/108284-huge-list-of-failure-rates-on-pc-components-french-but-i-translated-nearly-everything/

BeHardware also posts hardware return rates on their site but I don't have the link on this computer.

I still like their cases and peripherals. Just bought an M65 RGB gaming mouse and it's the best mouse I've ever used but Corsair quality in general has been on the decline since their peak in around 2010. They figured out they could make more money by using cheaper parts and it has showed. It does seem they are on the right track recently though.

 

[chimera201]

^^ I do not depend on surveyed statistics. The surveyed systems are usually not our target audience.

For example, everyone here agrees that Corsair VS series sucks more than Corsair CX series. Take a look at these cases:

Case I : A Corsair VS450 powering a Geforce GT 730 and an i3 CPU might probably work fine for more than 3 years.

Case II : A Corsair CX500 powering a Radeon R9 290X and a FX 8350 might probably blow up in a year.

Conclusion : The target system matters.

 

[ko888]

This might break your Corsair is still quality bubble.

I'm not stating I believe all their products are quality, I'm stating the market still does since I see so many people still recommending them across various forums. The consumer market has not turned on them (yet) as other brands that people often mention as products to avoid.

P.S. Cooler Master leads the PSU category in least issues with seasonic coming in toward the end...CM's budget PSU lines are even cheaper in quality then Corsairs. I question if stats are based on individual units sold or based off of all RMA units (they don't go into very much detail).

- Cooler Master 0,98% (vs 1,01% year before)
- Fortron / FSP Group 0,99% (vs 0,42% year before)
- be quiet! 1,15% (N/A)
- Antec 1,23% (vs 1,17% year before)
- Thermaltake 1,98% (vs 2,36% year before)
- Corsair 2,18% (vs 2,30% year before)
- Seasonic 2,36% (vs 2,20% year before)

That's old data from May 10, 2013.

The last published list is from November 6, 2014:

- FSP Group 0.83% (versus 1.57% in April 30, 2014)
- be quiet! 0.84% (versus 0.77% in April 30, 2014)
- Corsair 1.32% (versus 1.52% in April 30, 2014)
- Cooler Master 1.51% (versus 1.42% in April 30, 2014)
- Zalman 1.72% (versus 0.84% in April 30, 2014)
- Thermaltake 1.86% (versus 2.48% in April 30, 2014)
- Seasonic 2.31% (versus 2.91% in April 30, 2014)
- Akasa 2.97% (versus 2.39% in April 30, 2014)
- Cougar 4.74% (versus 1.81% in April 30, 2014)

The return rate due to failure data is mined from LDLC.com's database. LDLC.com is one of France's largest e-retailers.

The trend shows that Corsair is improving. Cooler Master is getting worse. Seasonic is improving.

 

[Novuake]

^^ I do not depend on surveyed statistics. The surveyed systems are usually not our target audience.

For example, everyone here agrees that Corsair VS series sucks more than Corsair CX series. Take a look at these cases:

Case I : A Corsair VS450 powering a Geforce GT 730 and an i3 CPU might probably work fine for more than 3 years.

Case II : A Corsair CX500 powering a Radeon R9 290X and a FX 8350 might probably blow up in a year.

Conclusion : The target system matters.

Agreed, however they can not be disregarded completely, averages DO matter.

 

[dottorrent]

And Cougar has drastically gotten worse.

 

[ko888]

The top 5 worst PSUs (from May 2014 to October 2014) for models that sold 100 or more units:

- 5.31% Cooler Master Silent Pro M2 720W 80PLUS Bronze
- 4.70% Akasa Venom Power 750
- 4.69% Akasa Venom Power 850 80PLUS Gold
- 4.46% Cooler Master G550M 80PLUS Bronze
- 4.40% Be Quiet! System Power 7 700 W 80PLUS Silver

 

[Darkbreeze]

The top 5 worst PSUs (from May 2014 to October 2014) for models that sold 100 or more units:

- 5.31% Cooler Master Silent Pro M2 720W 80PLUS Bronze
- 4.70% Akasa Venom Power 750
- 4.69% Akasa Venom Power 850 80PLUS Gold
- 4.46% Cooler Master G550M 80PLUS Bronze
- 4.40% Be Quiet! System Power 7 700 W 80PLUS Silver

I'm seriously shocked to see that neither Raidmax or Thermaltake have units on that list. Just goes to show HOW bad those units are. Shame on Cooler Master for having TWO units on there. Another reason why I never recommend any of their power supplies regardless that they have a couple of decent, if overpriced, models.

 

[ko888]

LDLC.com doesn't sell any Raidmax or Thermaltake PSUs so there is no data to mine from their databases for those brands.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ah. I see. Thanks.

 

[Karadjgne]

I wonder though, just how LDLC.com comes by their figures for returns, I mean are all those for defective psu's, or are they also including returns because someone bought a $100 Seasonic, and was later convinced by a friend that the $40 Corsair was just as good for a lot less money?

 

[ko888]

I wonder though, just how LDLC.com comes by their figures for returns, I mean are all those for defective psu's, or are they also including returns because someone bought a $100 Seasonic, and was later convinced by a friend that the $40 Corsair was just as good for a lot less money?

It's based on having their own technicians confirming that the returned product is defective. It doesn't include data where the customer has dealt directly with the PSU manufacturer.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

If you look at the Seasonic models it's the old group regulated S/M 12 II platform that has all the returns. I believe there were some coil whine issues with the first gen Platinum series as well which probably added to the total. I would bet that most of their other units have very low return rates.

 

[Darkbreeze]

corsair sells a $40 PSU?

Yes.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026&cm_re=corsair_power_supply-_-17-139-026-_-Product

Actually 24.99 after rebate. Which you can put towards the purchase of another PSU after that one fails.

 

[synphul]

I can appreciate lists with return/failure rates but I find it kind of funny that it's composed of oem's and resale companies. In some of those lists, seasonic appears at the bottom of the list (worst), yet be quiet! units appear near the top of the list (best). Be quiet doesn't make their psu's, most are made by fsp and seasonic. Corsair appears near the top of the list as well - and yet most of their units are made by seasonic. Corsair again doesn't make their own psus.

The accuracy of determining quality from sub quality psu's starts to become muddied by return rate data. It really should focus on oem's, not sure why it included rebadged units from companies that don't even make psu's.

That's kind of like saying toyota cars suck, but the best made vehicles you can get are lexus - when lexus is made by toyota.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

Most Corsair power supplies are made by CWT not Seasonic. In fact Seasonic currently makes 3 units for Corsair. Flextronics makes 4. Chicony was dropped and the CS series is made by Great Wall. Everything else is CWT.

BeQuiet is almost exclusively FSP with only 4 models made by Seasonic and several more by HEC.

While Corsair does not build any power supplies they are built to the specifications Corsair lays out by the respective OEM. So Corsair does design the units they sell.

 

[Darkbreeze]

and you would confuse that with a $100 seasonic, interesting...

I don't recall ANYBODY saying anything about confusing the two. What was said was

are they also including returns because someone bought a $100 Seasonic, and was later convinced by a friend that the $40 Corsair was just as good for a lot less money?

which sounds nothing like somebody confusing the two. At least it doesn't to me. Plus, I didn't say it anyway. You were incredulous of the fact that Corsair sold a 40 dollar PSU and I simply showed you that they did. My bad, I guess.