QOTD: What Don't You Like About Macs?

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echdskech

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More than anything, I'm gonna echo everyone here and say price. But then again, Sony VAIO's and boutiques like Alienware or Voodoo are just about as overpriced but still, better value than Apple. Then again, I'm not gonna buy their stuff either just because I, like most other posters here, know for a fact we can build equivalent machines for a lower price.

In that sense, I can't really say I don't like Apple specifically. What really does tick me off is the kool-aid effect Apple or their marketing campaign has on their users.

Ofcourse there are zealots for Linux and Windows as well but somehow, the Apple fanboys just have an air to them that come off as snobbish. I guess the difference is that I personally don't think they have anything to brag about against the other two factions. Linux guys claim superior security, stability and customizability. Windows guys claim better compatibility (especially games) and far a wider install base. Apple... well, looks pretty. And even that is subjective at best. Their prioritization of form over function (ie terrible heat management in their notebooks, fans/vents++?) and their idea of simplicity (ie right-click anyone? ) is... not for this crowd I suppose.

In short, I guess a huge dose of humility and a big slap from reality for their user base would have a much bigger impact on Apple's image for me than slashing price tags.
 

midnightgun

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The last time I built a system (and the current browsing I'm doing for my next) I checked on Apple systems, cause frankly I think the OS is well done.

The problem I encountered is, I want to build a gaming rig with 1 cpu (the dual mac pro is a waste of money for me), one or maybe dual graphics cards (current, not old crap), in a tower case and my own monitor.

What is the option for me with an Apple?

It is a huge, glaring hole in their line-up.

That and the ridiculously priced upgrade parts.
 

tuannguyen

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[citation][nom]Slobogob[/nom]I wish i would've seen this article sooner. Here are two articles by Mr. Nguyen about Apple and prices:1. The Apple Mac Cost Misconception : Macs and Their Prices , where he rambles how competitive macs are priced and then...2. Study Finds Macs Cost 2X Windows PCs, just two days later.A 180° turn in just 2 days - something that would make even the most cunning politician green with envy.I just wanted to point that out for those readers that don't really know what Mr. Nguyen means with "Based on some of my past articles, some things are really clear, while others are still up in the air."[/citation]

Hi Slobogob -

Thanks for the feedback. It wasn't a 180-degree turn. The news post about Macs being pricey was about a report from an analyst, and I thought it would be prudent to feature it here, since it was a news at the time. I'm not one to post either or. Whatever is hot news, I'll definitely post it, no shame there. :)

For example, sure, I admit I like OS X *ducks*, but that doesn't mean I won't post things about it that happen to be negative. If news comes out that there's a crazy virus spreading on the Mac world, I'll post that too.

I can see where your concern lies, but I'll post things from either camp--no sweat. :)

/ Tuan
 

superhighperf

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i have thought about the question while reading all of the comments and i think i have settled on software and then price/availability.

the first GUI computer i ever used was a mack but i was using it at school for word processing. then i go to high school and take cad classes using a pc and i was hooked. at the time i didn't even know there was a choice. the apple was a cool little box that did some stuff but nothing like what i could do on a pc using the drafix software.

then i go to community college and never even thought of a mack. i was using autocad and cadkey on a pc and there was not even a mack in the building. i was having so much fun 3d modeling on the new pc that an apple never crossed my mind. i graduate and go to university and they were using ? i guess it was a large unix server? to run pro-e and when i finally decided i had to get a computer of my own, pro-e had a student version that ran on windows 95 and that is what i got. i paid the price of a nice used car for a windows system that could spank the stuff that i was using at the university. i got all of the power i needed to run drafting software plus a dvd player, web cam, DVR, and a bunch of free games; G-police was cool :) if an apple was available i would have considered it and price really was not a deciding factor so i might have gotten the apple but the software was not there.

after that i figured apple had died until i saw the laptops but i never needed a laptop.
 

Sicundercover

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[citation][nom]sp00[/nom]I am both a PC and Mac user, but I think it is kinda unfair to compare self built PC to Prebuilt computers like the Mac. It would be fair to compare Dell or HP workstation to Mac Pros (which uses workstation components). Plus, a lot of you are not factoring the cost of the OS. I would also agree that OSX Tiger was really bad, but OSX Leopard is equal to XP or Vista in terms of usability. When you start to compare prebuilt computers makers to Mac Pros. It starts to become clear that Mac are comparable in price. Sony came out with an all in one desktop computer similar to the iMacs and their price is comparable. The community at Tom's Hardware built their own PC and it makes sense that Apple is not for them. I'm not saying Macs are better than PC, but I think some of the comparison are not really fair.[/citation]

I would take this into account if Apple allowed you to build your own PC's. Grant it there has been some success with Hackentoshs but your still very limited on parts.

With that said, it is fair to compare home mades to Apples, because when they say they are better then PC's they are saying they can build one better then you can too.

I can out build Apple at every turn when it comes to a Desktop machine. I can beat price:performance and beat their service for my clients.

I just cant beat their advertising team.
 

decoppel

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Honestly?

The prices are STUPID-INSANE.

It still isn't 100% compatible, and why would I buy a MAC to run WINDOWS?

It is the smug douche bag Mac users

 

merickel

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I purchased a mac about two years ago along with the "apple care protection plan" after being told by my sales associate that no matter what happened to my machine it would be replaced under the coverage. I was told that i could even bring my macbook into the store, spike it on the ground, and they would replace it. I had to find out the hard way that this wasnt true. About a month ago it fell off my bed at college and when i called them to ask what to do they told me that "accidental damage is not covered by the plan." I started asking around and it turns out that everyone i know that has a mac was told the same thing when they were asked if they wanted to buy the protection plan. It sounds like they have their employees say that to get you to buy a "protection plan" that doesnt protect anything. Also, everyone i know that has a mac book has had to/needs to replace their cd drive. Why? Because its a cheap, crappy, overpriced part.

Any company, whether it be Apple, Windows, Wonderbread, or freaking LEGO, that would lie to its customers just to get more money out of them, is not a company that i want to do business with. Their customer service is crap, their products are crap, and their prices are crap. I thought that I would never go back to windows, and here i am on my dell happily playing games again and getting things accomplished because there is 3rd party support for whatever it is i want to do. No matter what that is.
 

Herbert_HA

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I'm a mac user and i would change some things.

First, I would like to have the possibility to upgrade cpus. I hate not to have this option. It's very hard to upgrade a video card on mac, because there is very little choice, but it can be done. But the cpu...

I would like them to refresh their line-up faster, but keep selling the older generation for a lower price. I understand they are a boutique computer builder, but it wouldn't hurt to let more people afford their products. I don't care if it's not top-of-the-line, I never bought the best pc available, I always bought what i could afford.

I dislike Mac fanboys as much as I dislike Windows and Linux fanboys. Windows, Linux and OSX have all it's place and it's great that we can choose any of them, so I want all those products to evolve and strive for the best user experience.
 

deltatux

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[citation][nom]deck[/nom]They stole the linux kernel and returned nothing to the open source community. For that, they get a life time boycott.[/citation]

They didn't even touch Linux, it was BSD and they do commit back to the open source community.

I actually own a Macbook just because it's only UNIX machine that I don't have to spend too much time tinkering. I need the UNIX base but don't have the time to tinker with a Linux or whatever install. I pay a fair premium, but that's still better than running Windows. Heck, I'm sure most laptops out there aren't even DDR3 capable.

I have my main desktop running Windows and Linux so basically I'm well rounded which is better than to only stick to one operating system and be an ignorant fanboy.

deltatux
 

stevenmaster

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Like any electronics you have in your house it is what are you using it for? I work in video production when the same company make the OS, the computer, and the editing software you are much better off then a bunch of 3rd party stuff trying to work with each other with drivers and all that nonsense
 

JMS3096

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[citation][nom]Sicundercover[/nom]I can out build Apple at every turn when it comes to a Desktop machine. I can beat priceerformance and beat their service for my clients.[/citation]

You can outbuild ANY major manufacturer at every turn. Just because Dell, HP, et. al., make PCs, it doesn't mean that they don't have ridiculous markup. That markup is the price you pay for not having to build your own computer. That markup pays the salaries of telemarketers, support people, CEOs, middle managers, designers, assembly plant workers, etc... Basically almost any system you build yourself will be cheaper than the equivalent system you buy from an OEM.
 

Tindytim

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[citation][nom]JMS3096[/nom]You can outbuild ANY major manufacturer at every turn. Just because Dell, HP, et. al., make PCs, it doesn't mean that they don't have ridiculous markup. That markup is the price you pay for not having to build your own computer. That markup pays the salaries of telemarketers, support people, CEOs, middle managers, designers, assembly plant workers, etc... Basically almost any system you build yourself will be cheaper than the equivalent system you buy from an OEM.[/citation]
And you think they don't get huge bulk discounts? I'm not saying they shouldn't mark-up their prices a bit, but they already get all the products for much cheaper than I could.
 

Dave K

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While I agree that comparing a top of the line mac to a homebuilt is unfair... it doesn't necessarily follow that a top tier PC vendor isn't also going to outperform Apple on Price/Performance.

I can tell you right now... if you pay $3000 for a PC from Dell or any other top vendor, you won't be getting a $65.00 graphics card in it like the system referred to by the author. I'd be very surprised if such a system came with less than a $500 graphics card.

I don't understand Apples hardware design on these new systems... spend a grand on Processors and Mobo, then lowball the graphics... it's crazy.
 

cruiseoveride

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1) Pricing
Yes, No one can beat the "exact" stock base model MacPro pricing. But fuk that. Beat the stock model, and you'll beat the price too.
iMac are all in one PCs, they should be cheaper than component based PCs. Look at home theaters, integrated amps are many times cheaper than component systems. Fuk the novelty of all-in-one. The shit needs to be cheaper.

2) Compatibility
Make the motherboards a little more friendly with other operating systems. Its not like i'm going to use OSX if i ever get a Mac. Make the board at least conform with ATX, so that it can be chucked when you want to upgrade X years later.

Allow for better expansion, 4 drive bays in a $2k PC??? wtf

 

waffle911

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[citation][nom]MDillenbeck[/nom]Cost, while a factor, is a symptom of another underlying cause - lack of openness and transparency. It is okay if they have official 4x price hardware, but only if I have the option to go buy non-official parts without risking a legal violation. Go ahead and void my warranty, but if you make me a criminal because I don't use your hardware with your OS then I am going to stay away. [/citation]
Um, what? No-one said you couldn't go out and buy your own RAM and HDD or SSD- in fact, many Mac users who upgrade hardware refuse to pay Apple's price for "certified" RAM or hard drives. In the notebooks they are relatively easily replaceable without voiding warranty. In the iMac, the RAM is easily replaceable (though you would still have trouble finding 8GB of DRR3 in 2x SO-DIMM form), and the hard drive is replaceable as well, though less easily so (it's on page 2).
As for making you a criminal for not using Apple hardware, it's only against the EULA to install and use OSX and its software on a non-Apple branded computer.
Video cards are a different story as VGA card makers don't actively write the drivers that make the cards usable for a mac-nor do they, in many cases, write (decent, if at all) drivers for Linux. Plus, Apple now requires the MiniDisplay Port to garnish all of their products, but at least it doesn't require hardware makers to license the technology to adopt it, unlike DVI and HDMI. What I really want to know, however, is how a Mac Pro with a Radeon 4870 stacks up against a similarly equipped Windows workstation, first with a 4870 and then the professional equivalent FirePro V8700. Then again, the V8700 has 1GB of GDDR5, but the Mac card is only available as the 512MB version. But since a workstation card is essentially the same as the consumer variant, with the addition of a hardware key that allows the use of drivers that are better optimized for workstation tasks, I want to know whether Apple's use of consumer cards compensates for this with better-than-consumer drivers, or if it really is all smoke and mirrors. I wouldn't hold my breath, but you never really know until you try. Although it would also be interesting to see if you could get a non-Mac video card to work in a Mac Pro running Windows. But that would defeat the purpose, to an extent. Shame, really.
[citation]Don't silence your customers, but embrace complaints and speak of solutions. Am I a customer or a consumer to you - someone you wish to build a lifetime relation with or someone you view as an ATM machine to get a quick cash from?[/citation]
Niether. Customers are customers. They don't seek quick cash a la Sony, who provides hardware with no benefits over competing PC's without any other benefits (assuming OSX to be a benefit, which it is for many people), and provides sub-par customer service afterward. I was only ever able to get a hardware problem I had with a laptop (the WiFi switch broke in the "off" position- Macs don't use a physical switch, only software) fixed by taking it to Geek Squad, who sent it in to be repaired and took 3 weeks to get it back, at fair expense to me.
But Apple's not looking to marry you, either. They begin to censor complaints when they begin to grow disproportionate to the actual occurrence of the problem, because more people are going to go out of their way to express problems they're having than people who are not experiencing problems and are perfectly contented. Plus, there are several well-populated forums devoted to Apple products that are
(believe it or not) fairly neutral to the Mac-vs-PC thing and chose a Mac for purely objective purposes, and understands when Apple totally screws up. I've had a Dell physically fall apart on me in 6 months and the supposedly "inferior" MacBook that replaced it is still ticking 2.5 years on, faster in fact than the spec-wise superior Dell ever was. Same goes for my friend's Toshiba.
[citation]Apple is the villain of their 1984 commercial - we can be creative and unique as long as it is done in their officially branded and sanctioned way. With an iPod that gets stuff from iTunes on our iMacs, using official Apple parts like Apple earbuds, Apple mice, Apple keyboards, Apple RAM, and Apple network backup systems.[/citation]
You are perfectly capable of using your own headphones, mice, keyboards, RAM, and network backup systems (Time Machine allows the use of attached external storage, or storage attatched to the network. The issue was that AirPort Extreme didn't support backing up to storage attached to it until very recently). iPod does have to get stuff from iTunes, true, but it doesn't have to be on a Mac, and you know it. And you can use your own MP3PMP with a Mac if you really want to, if you don't mind dragging and dropping your own music directly to the device, as you probably would with a PC (that's what I did with my Archos before I switched to Mac. It was a pain, but WMP always screwed up somehow). You can even use a non-iTunes music player if you really are so inclined, so long as you can find one (there aren't many because most people seem to be perfectly happy with iTunes). Interestingly enough, though, is that Apple supplies iTunes and Safari for both Mac and Windows, but Microsoft refuses to supply a comparable version of Windows Media Player or Internet Explorer for Mac OS. Plus, last time I checked, Apple wasn't charging me an arm and a leg for an office suite to have a word processor, spreadsheet, presentation, and email suite (only $50 with a new Mac, $80 otherwise). Heck, Apple gives you an email program for free, no need to buy Outlook. Plus, a good, free, unrestricted DVD player program, unlike the free "try-before-you-buy" shovelware programs that come on many PCs (I don't see why you can't just use Windows Media Player, it honestly isn't that bad for playng DVD's).
My own issues with Macs are pricing (which isn't as bad as people make it out to be), expandability (they're fine to an extent, but they are still limited) and compatibility (Mac OSX only has a lack of games because it has too limited a user base, which is changing). But in terms of a laptop I can take anywhere and expect it to do anything I would need it to do quickly and efficiently, I'll take a Mac over a PC any day. The large and versatile touch pad and Expose just make working so much easier on the go. And, having been raised on a steady diet of Windows at home and Macs at school (I know both like the back of my hand) along with an intrinsic understanding of the human psyche (gained from coping with Aspergr's with great success), I can say objectively that it is not necessarily a point-and-click interface that makes a system user-friendly-- it's the layout and organization of the system functions, and the consistency in which it's presented. For both of those, Windows fails, in part because some crucial system functions are buried within more than 6 sub-levels, several of which are poorly labeled (ok, this is a bit of an exaggeration, but you get my point). If you don't understand how that's a problem for most people, read the beginning of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy for an indirectly comparable experience.
But there are two other things that bother me.
The first is that Tom's Hardware would even bother to try to reconcile the differences between Mac and PC to PC hardware enthusiasts, who by their very nature are not Apple's target market.
The second is that the enthusiasts in question refuse to believe that anything Apple can have any true value at all beyond aesthetics.
Saying that Macs appeal to people who are too stupid to use a PC and thus a "computer" in general is like saying Toyota Corollas appeal to people who are too poor to afford a Porsche and thus by transitive property a "real car".
Technical knowledge of computers is a very scarce luxury among the general populous as much as money is. 5% of people control 95% of the world's wealth, and 5% of people are knowledgeable enough to know how to take apart a computer and put it back together again, or diagnose and fix any possible problem that may arise (which is a frustratingly frequent occurrence with most PCs I've dealt with). For most people, troubleshooting is a hassle, and the promise of fewer enigmatic problems justifies the price premium of a Mac for most people, even for people who are capable of building their own system. It's just nice to be able to use the computer to do something without the computer itself getting in the way. In fact, the whole point of the Mac has always been to bring computing to the people, ever since it's inception, bringing the intuitive GUI concept from Xerox to the desktop computer where command prompts had previously dominated, democratizing the benefits of a personal computer for everyone to enjoy. They all said it was a gimmick, a toy, in no way useful for a computer's intended purpose. The problem is that they were stuck in a mindset of what a computer's purpose was supposed to be as opposed to what it had the potential to be. That same stigma unfortunately is still prevalent, as is evident with PC enthusiast elitists who blatantly shun Mac users' ignorance the way they perceive Mac users to shun them for not being hip and trendy the way that French royalty shunned the plebes inability to afford bread the same way that the president of Zimbabwe ignores the plight of his people while indulging himself with a birthday cake as big as a mid-size car in much the same way that Islamic extremists see fit to convert or exterminate heretics instead of agreeing to peacefully and respectfully disagree with dissenting religious views.
 

grifonik

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#1 Until they go out of business, Microsoft can point at them and say "see, we're not a monopoly".

#2 Draconian control over software and hardware. If they were as big as Microsoft, they'd be even WORSE. We'd have less choice in both software and hardware with such blatantly forcefed system architecture. Paying more for less choice? No thanks commie.

#3 Steve Jobs is definition cult leader. People cheer mindlessly when he says the dumbest things. "Its a phone and an Internet device!". Wild applause from the audience. Hello? It is NOT the first phone and Internet device! The emperor has no clothes!

#4 The apple smugness. Its no different than the other smug people you meet in life. The only people they're fooling is themselves.
 

Maxor127

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I think most people hate Apple and Macs because of complete ignorance and misinformation and basic fanboyism. Macs are overpriced, but people make retarded comparisons like comparing their homebuilt systems without taking into account the quality software and operating system that are included. Once you take all of that into account and compare to something like an Alienware, then the Mac turns out to be a good deal.

If you're into games and modding your computer, then you probably shouldn't spend your money on a Mac. Otherwise, I see no reason not to get one. And if you are interested in a Mac, then yes buying Apple products separately and trying to upgrade through them is grossly expensive. But that's how any computer company works, but people still try to compare Apple prices to OEM prices. Buying a base model and upgrading yourself is always a better value. You can make the same argument with consoles like the PS3 and 360 where you basically pay an extra $100 for an extra 20GB.
 

TEAMSWITCHER

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The only problem with the Macintosh is the price, they are quite expensive. But, they are the only computers that I have found to work for years without problems. I have a Windows Vista machine at home and I am constantly having to correct issues that develop from time to time. Video driver crashes, network printers mysteriously disappearing, could not install Service Pack 1 from the web. the list goes on and on and on...

These problems take too much time, and time is very valuable to me. It's the Microsoft Tax. Nobody ever talks about it, but we all live with it. Sacrificing countless hours to fix issues. I suppose if you are a teenager with more time than money it's acceptable trade-off. But I just don't have the time anymore.

The MacBook Pro is MY computer. It is the only computer I own that has earned my trust. I will not put videos of my kids on Vista, too many True Image backups have failed for no real reason.

Your milage may vary, but for me I and a true Switcher!



 

waffle911

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Oh, I think it should also be said that I am working on putting together a gaming rig with Phenom and a 1GB HD4870, with 4GB of RAM, all running Windows 7 beta... I like to play games too, but school work always has to come first, hence the Mac laptop for anytime/anywhere portability, functionality and reliability. But I'm also building the PC to get a start into case modding. Frankly, I like building things with my own two hands. But I also have a good eye for design, and I just can't bring myself to do much to mod a Mac. They're as if Herman-Miller sold computers (and if you don't already know who Herman-Miller is, then you probably wouldn't understand anyway).
And the "Mac zealots and their delusions of virus immunity" crap is getting old. Neither Macs nor any system is immune from attacks, but Macs are inherently safer not only because of their limited user base (similar to PC's running Linux) but also because if it were that simple to write and execute a profitable attack on Mac systems it would have been done by now because:
A) the average Mac user is statistically more affluent than the typical PC user. (higher payout)
B) the typical affluent computer user has more personal information stored on their computer. (even higher payout)
C) People who use Macs to escape the complexities of PCs would be caught totally unawares with little or no protection regardless of whether they would otherwise use ether a Mac or a PC because nothing is 100% immune from Trojan attacks. (ease of entry)
 

Milleman

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[citation][nom]GreatWalrus[/nom]To me, it seems there is no reason to spend an overpriced amount on a system you could build with a similar operating system (BSD or Linux, or even OSX) and better components for (sometimes) much less. Also, I've never really liked Apple's DRM and patent use (refer to the most recent EU problems). Finally, I have always thought of Apple users to be a little too proud of their systems. They seem to bring them everywhere (don't really blame them - I probably would too if I spent that much on a laptop).After having written this, I'm now also wondering why we are being asked to "Explain our case" why we don't like Apple. Seems strange.Oh and it also frustrates me how they have to name almost everything beginning with an 'i' You have the iPod, iMac (yuck!), iTunes, iPhone, iTV, iDisk, iSync, iWork, iLife, iMovie, iPhoto, yada yada yada.[/citation]

Next Apple will be the "iDiot"!
 
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