I don't like Mac's because I feel alienated and no where near as cool as my friends that use them. It is so superior to PC but the price tag is crazy and so I am left in the corner with my BSOD uninvited to the party.
- Status
I could say screw Mac and just build a PC with Kubuntu Linux, and not only have just as much eye-candy, but I can also have just as much fun trying to get my apps working, all while saving thousands....
Shadow703793
Champion
- Feb 3, 2007
- 15,438
- 0
- 51,160
Quick and easy:
- price is first and 98% of the problem
- not so open on the DIY hardware upgrades (graphics cards for example), which limits the choice on possible upgrades
That's it. I've got nothing against Apple as a company, they're nice, nice products, nice OS and all that. But when it comes to pricing - they are out of my range by 4-5x. When I?ll be able to aford it, they'll be ok, LOL!
- price is first and 98% of the problem
- not so open on the DIY hardware upgrades (graphics cards for example), which limits the choice on possible upgrades
That's it. I've got nothing against Apple as a company, they're nice, nice products, nice OS and all that. But when it comes to pricing - they are out of my range by 4-5x. When I?ll be able to aford it, they'll be ok, LOL!
Powersworder
Distinguished
- Jan 27, 2009
- 36
- 0
- 18,530
[citation][nom]jdhirst[/nom]The one button mouse.That's all I've ever seen on the demo macs at the stores. Really? Sticking with the single button, eh? They have seen the mouse scroll button right? That prideful attitude really turns me off.[/citation]
The funniest thing I ever read about Apple was that they designed the one-button mouse because they thought their user-base didnt have the intellectual capacity to handle a 2 button mouse.
Im a hardcore gamer and Macs are about as much use as a gaming platform as a toaster.
I dont like the Mac Gui design, it all screams 'style over substance'. I hate Macs even down to the font they use for system messages.
I hate the marketing campaign that pokes fun at PC users. The worst part is that their gullilble fanbase laps up all that nonsense. Macs are like the fisher price "my first computer" for anyone who failed to use a proper PC. Whats worse is that all the marketing attempts to imply that they are somehow smarter and making a more informed choice by buying massively overpriced hardware.
Macs are only less prone to virus attack because they have such a laughably small percentage of the market. If I wrote malware, id want to target the largest amount of people possible.
The funniest thing I ever read about Apple was that they designed the one-button mouse because they thought their user-base didnt have the intellectual capacity to handle a 2 button mouse.
Im a hardcore gamer and Macs are about as much use as a gaming platform as a toaster.
I dont like the Mac Gui design, it all screams 'style over substance'. I hate Macs even down to the font they use for system messages.
I hate the marketing campaign that pokes fun at PC users. The worst part is that their gullilble fanbase laps up all that nonsense. Macs are like the fisher price "my first computer" for anyone who failed to use a proper PC. Whats worse is that all the marketing attempts to imply that they are somehow smarter and making a more informed choice by buying massively overpriced hardware.
Macs are only less prone to virus attack because they have such a laughably small percentage of the market. If I wrote malware, id want to target the largest amount of people possible.
What does an Apple computer do that a PC can't? I don't think there's anything.
IMHO, PC is greater than Apple. PC has more software and Hardware.
Apple is for people who think it works like magic. Meaning, maybe they think apple Hardware comes from outerspace made by alien.
IMHO, PC is greater than Apple. PC has more software and Hardware.
Apple is for people who think it works like magic. Meaning, maybe they think apple Hardware comes from outerspace made by alien.
superhighperf
Distinguished
- Jan 17, 2006
- 81
- 0
- 18,630
i was curious about a comparable system but have no experience building server systems. this is what i found if you wanted an amd dual quad core set up.
mb $70
TYAN S2912G2NR Dual 1207(F) NVIDIA nForce Professional 3600 Extended ATX Server Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813151070
cpu 2 x $190
AMD Opteron 1356 Budapest 2.3GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 2MB L3 Cache Socket AM2 75W Quad-Core Server Processor - Retail (with wan and heat sink, i think)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819105213
ram 4 x $25 = 8gb
Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Server Memory Model KVR667D2E5K2/2G - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134337
that is just under $600. can't be much more than $400 for the rest of the stuff you need; hd, case, psu, keyboard, mouse etc. then throw in a $50 graphics card :-0 but board has video. you will probably end up with half the power of the apple system at 1/3 the price? wait some time and i'm sure you could make an amd system with the new ram and similar performance to the apple for under $2k?
i could be way off
mb $70
TYAN S2912G2NR Dual 1207(F) NVIDIA nForce Professional 3600 Extended ATX Server Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813151070
cpu 2 x $190
AMD Opteron 1356 Budapest 2.3GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 2MB L3 Cache Socket AM2 75W Quad-Core Server Processor - Retail (with wan and heat sink, i think)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819105213
ram 4 x $25 = 8gb
Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Server Memory Model KVR667D2E5K2/2G - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134337
that is just under $600. can't be much more than $400 for the rest of the stuff you need; hd, case, psu, keyboard, mouse etc. then throw in a $50 graphics card :-0 but board has video. you will probably end up with half the power of the apple system at 1/3 the price? wait some time and i'm sure you could make an amd system with the new ram and similar performance to the apple for under $2k?
i could be way off
Deck said
"They stole the linux kernel and returned nothing to the open source community. For that, they get a life time boycott."
I'd like to add: And Apple has the NERVE to say "We won't stand for our intellectual property being ripped off [by Palm Pre]. While according to Palm, Apple is ripping off some of their patents also...!
WHAT NERVE!
"They stole the linux kernel and returned nothing to the open source community. For that, they get a life time boycott."
I'd like to add: And Apple has the NERVE to say "We won't stand for our intellectual property being ripped off [by Palm Pre]. While according to Palm, Apple is ripping off some of their patents also...!
WHAT NERVE!
warezme
Distinguished
- Dec 18, 2006
- 2,442
- 47
- 19,840
A business based on arrogance and deceit of their obviously low tech clients is reprehensible. Also, I have used OSX Leopard and for all its glory, the file management system is atrocious. Its either Macs way or the highway with their whole scheme of shutting everyone out that doesn't pay Apple and follow by their rules. That goes against all things PC. They should change their name from the Mac to the Mac Appliance because thats what it is.
I can't stand the whole Apple approach to business. I don't buy from companies that work the way they do. I never bought a Mac, nor iPod or iPhone.
You buy a Mac, you can only upgrade using Apple components - which are overpriced. You get an iPod, you can only buy music from iTunes no matter the fact you already have your own music library and have had it for years. You get an iPhone, you need to hack it to actually be able to use it to its full potential, plus you're stuck with iTunes again.
Apple is all about forcing you into a set of products branding and services from which you cannot get out after. Its a bit like if you gave Apple a hold on your credit card and then you can't take it away from them...
You buy a Mac, you can only upgrade using Apple components - which are overpriced. You get an iPod, you can only buy music from iTunes no matter the fact you already have your own music library and have had it for years. You get an iPhone, you need to hack it to actually be able to use it to its full potential, plus you're stuck with iTunes again.
Apple is all about forcing you into a set of products branding and services from which you cannot get out after. Its a bit like if you gave Apple a hold on your credit card and then you can't take it away from them...
stradric
Distinguished
- Mar 16, 2009
- 82
- 0
- 18,630
I don't like how Apple always tries to hide buttons and interface elements for the sake of being sleek. More times than not, they cripple an interface just to make it look better. The best example is their stupid 1-button mouse. The most recent example is the new ipod shuffle where you need a special headphone adapter just to use it.
I also don't like their pricing. And I don't like the fact that they think they're better than Microsoft and employ many of the same tactics.
Well that's all really why I don't like Apple. I don't like a lot of things about Macs as well. While I feel that OS X has a ton of nice features that make it a more appealing operating system than Windows or Linux, there still really isn't the application support that I would like. For example, xcode doesn't hold a candle to visual studio.
I also don't like their pricing. And I don't like the fact that they think they're better than Microsoft and employ many of the same tactics.
Well that's all really why I don't like Apple. I don't like a lot of things about Macs as well. While I feel that OS X has a ton of nice features that make it a more appealing operating system than Windows or Linux, there still really isn't the application support that I would like. For example, xcode doesn't hold a candle to visual studio.
Repelsteeltje
Distinguished
- Apr 19, 2008
- 71
- 0
- 18,630
One reason is price. Another is religious users. A third one is how Mac OSX doesn't shut down programs when you close the window, and doesn't maximise windows either. It's arrogant to force people to work in counterproductive ways just because you stubbornly think you know better – design serves user, not the other way around.
Apart from that, the integration of hardware with the OS is nice, and I like the snappy light feel of Mac OSX. And the fact it's Unix based, of course.
Apart from that, the integration of hardware with the OS is nice, and I like the snappy light feel of Mac OSX. And the fact it's Unix based, of course.
Scotteq
Splendid
- Aug 7, 2007
- 3,958
- 0
- 23,460
(1) As an enthusiast, I take pleasure in building a better system than OEM's can, and for less money. They are Far Far overpriced for the hardware you get. When you compare what you can build for yourself to what Apple sells??? It's clear that Apple do not want my business, because there's no effort to provide value for my dollar.
(2) I'm an Enthusiast - I build my own computers. There is no way to legally use their operating system on the systems I craft for myself. Therefore I can not and do not use OSX. No fault of my own: Apple Clearly Don't Want My Business, because they code the OS so it can't be installed on otherwise compatible hardware.
(3) I'm an enthusiast - I build my own computers. Apple have not made the effort to help/allow 3rd party component makers to provide the devices I want in my machine. And it's not limited to odd things. I can NOT use a performance nVidia GPU in an Apple machine. I can NOT use an ATi card in an Apple Machine. On a Hardware level, it's THE SAME CONNECTION AND THE SAME STANDARDS. Apple simply do not and have not created the environment for even the largest 3rd party component vendors to provide drivers for this stuff. Therefore it is clear that Apple do not want my business because they do not provide the facilities to use hardware they don't specifically approve of.
(4) I am an enthusiast and build my own computers. I game for fun on my PC. I can NOT play the games I want to on a Mac. It is clear to me that Apple do not want my business because they do not provide for this.
(5) I'm an Enthusiast and Build my own PCs - As a vaguely competent technical user, I know I can use virtualization software to run Windows on OSX. But even a vaguely competent user can/will point out that in order to do so, you have to (a) buy overpriced hardware in the form of the Apple computer (b) buy the virtualization software to run Windows on (c) buy Windows (d) buy the windows programs you want to run... and when all is said and done, the reality of a virtualized environment is that it can not take advantage of hardware acceleration and the like. So you are spending WAY WAY more money to create a system that is guaranteed to not perform anywhere near what THE EXACT SAME SOFTWARE could do in a native environment. It is clear to me that Apple do not want my business because they do not provide the facility to run the programs I want to run.
It isn't that I wouldn't want to use OSX. It's because Apple do not provide what I need. And not only have they made little effort to do that, they have also prevented me from doing it both on a software and a legal level. Therefore I must conclude that Apple do not want my business.
(2) I'm an Enthusiast - I build my own computers. There is no way to legally use their operating system on the systems I craft for myself. Therefore I can not and do not use OSX. No fault of my own: Apple Clearly Don't Want My Business, because they code the OS so it can't be installed on otherwise compatible hardware.
(3) I'm an enthusiast - I build my own computers. Apple have not made the effort to help/allow 3rd party component makers to provide the devices I want in my machine. And it's not limited to odd things. I can NOT use a performance nVidia GPU in an Apple machine. I can NOT use an ATi card in an Apple Machine. On a Hardware level, it's THE SAME CONNECTION AND THE SAME STANDARDS. Apple simply do not and have not created the environment for even the largest 3rd party component vendors to provide drivers for this stuff. Therefore it is clear that Apple do not want my business because they do not provide the facilities to use hardware they don't specifically approve of.
(4) I am an enthusiast and build my own computers. I game for fun on my PC. I can NOT play the games I want to on a Mac. It is clear to me that Apple do not want my business because they do not provide for this.
(5) I'm an Enthusiast and Build my own PCs - As a vaguely competent technical user, I know I can use virtualization software to run Windows on OSX. But even a vaguely competent user can/will point out that in order to do so, you have to (a) buy overpriced hardware in the form of the Apple computer (b) buy the virtualization software to run Windows on (c) buy Windows (d) buy the windows programs you want to run... and when all is said and done, the reality of a virtualized environment is that it can not take advantage of hardware acceleration and the like. So you are spending WAY WAY more money to create a system that is guaranteed to not perform anywhere near what THE EXACT SAME SOFTWARE could do in a native environment. It is clear to me that Apple do not want my business because they do not provide the facility to run the programs I want to run.
It isn't that I wouldn't want to use OSX. It's because Apple do not provide what I need. And not only have they made little effort to do that, they have also prevented me from doing it both on a software and a legal level. Therefore I must conclude that Apple do not want my business.
hrudy
Distinguished
- Aug 19, 2004
- 17
- 0
- 18,510
For me the thing that I don't like about Macs is their abandoning of interfaces after they invent them. AKA. Firewire on their low end Mac Notebooks. There are some interface differences that make me feel more productive on other platforms but those differences are minor.
I recently bought a Mac Pro after Microsoft introduced Vista.
I have far more problems with Microsoft than I have with Apple, but then I have to work with Microsoft systems every day.
I recently bought a Mac Pro after Microsoft introduced Vista.
I have far more problems with Microsoft than I have with Apple, but then I have to work with Microsoft systems every day.
the software is better on pc. Photoshop is better, strong software like photoediting and movie etc. are now better on pc. It's always fun to listen to the suprised mac users who get to try the alternative at work. Apple software was pretty good many years ago but it is left in the dust nowadays. There is no reason for using mac.
My old girlfriend asked me about it, she was willing to buy one because Microsoft felt like such bastards. When I told her about the stuff Apple has been up to she quickly changed her mind lol. Pointing out the software she would miss out on and the problem with games she would encounter, and all the hardware she would have to throw away because it won't work with a mac. The lacking quality in screen, connections and options compared to the Dell led alternative.
I still believe she should go for a cheap quality laptop but if she want's to spend the apple money she get's one helluva laptop.
My old girlfriend asked me about it, she was willing to buy one because Microsoft felt like such bastards. When I told her about the stuff Apple has been up to she quickly changed her mind lol. Pointing out the software she would miss out on and the problem with games she would encounter, and all the hardware she would have to throw away because it won't work with a mac. The lacking quality in screen, connections and options compared to the Dell led alternative.
I still believe she should go for a cheap quality laptop but if she want's to spend the apple money she get's one helluva laptop.
hardwarekid9756
Distinguished
- Jul 15, 2008
- 142
- 0
- 18,680
My major beefs:
Price - Obviously the most inhibitive. Markup is through the roof, customer service is no better than with other manufacturers (I worked for geek squad, and I've had to talk with both Mac and PC techs on the phone. I'm pretty fluent in Mac, and it was no better than the HP, Dell, Gateway or Acer techs I've been forced to talk with.) The parts are either overpowered for an end-user, or overpriced for a prosumer.
Compatibility - People who buy Macs buy macs because they are "easy to use." Have you ever tried walking a n00b through a windows install? Yeah, don't bring up Boot Camp unless you specify an audience. 'Lells and Fusion are great, but they smack performance down down down. And, again. Windows Install. Horrible. Moving along...
Fixed Hardware - I can't upgrade to what I want to upgrade to when I want to upgrade. Especially if I'm trying to maintain a warranty. Radeon 4830? HA! GTX295? LAUGH! Sure you can slot them, and a bootcamp might read them, but no native drivers = no real playing.
Apple/Users - Elitist, snobby, "My-poo-doesn't-stink" types who wear Ironic tee-shirts, sit in starbucks and pine after the newest Jack Johnson songs. And the company? Secretive media whores who play on the propaganda machines to churn out as much buzz as possible on a marginal incremental upgrade. If Sony, HP, and 'Soft got nearly as much hype and buzz, this market would be a different face. Are they shrewd? Yes. Is it insanely lucrative? Sure. Is it right? Absolutely not. Ask Jim Craemer what he uses the buzz for and then grab your pitchfork, folks, because Apple is rotten to the core.
Price - Obviously the most inhibitive. Markup is through the roof, customer service is no better than with other manufacturers (I worked for geek squad, and I've had to talk with both Mac and PC techs on the phone. I'm pretty fluent in Mac, and it was no better than the HP, Dell, Gateway or Acer techs I've been forced to talk with.) The parts are either overpowered for an end-user, or overpriced for a prosumer.
Compatibility - People who buy Macs buy macs because they are "easy to use." Have you ever tried walking a n00b through a windows install? Yeah, don't bring up Boot Camp unless you specify an audience. 'Lells and Fusion are great, but they smack performance down down down. And, again. Windows Install. Horrible. Moving along...
Fixed Hardware - I can't upgrade to what I want to upgrade to when I want to upgrade. Especially if I'm trying to maintain a warranty. Radeon 4830? HA! GTX295? LAUGH! Sure you can slot them, and a bootcamp might read them, but no native drivers = no real playing.
Apple/Users - Elitist, snobby, "My-poo-doesn't-stink" types who wear Ironic tee-shirts, sit in starbucks and pine after the newest Jack Johnson songs. And the company? Secretive media whores who play on the propaganda machines to churn out as much buzz as possible on a marginal incremental upgrade. If Sony, HP, and 'Soft got nearly as much hype and buzz, this market would be a different face. Are they shrewd? Yes. Is it insanely lucrative? Sure. Is it right? Absolutely not. Ask Jim Craemer what he uses the buzz for and then grab your pitchfork, folks, because Apple is rotten to the core.
Blessedman
Distinguished
- May 29, 2001
- 579
- 0
- 18,980
Games Games and more Games... I prefer my system (at the price they charge) to do it all. When I get tired of working, I can just play without reboot.
cjl
Splendid
- Jun 18, 2008
- 7,676
- 0
- 31,160
I have 4 main complaints, really
1) Price. No matter what I've had mac fans tell me, I've yet to see a mac, with the exception of the short period following the release of brand new components (such as the Nehalem mac pro mentioned in the article), that is not at least 30% more expensive than a comparably equipped Dell or HP. If you include homebuilt, the gap grows.
2) The OS. I've never had a chance to use one for very long, because every time I have had a chance, it was a miserable experience. Nothing is intuitive, and I can't find how to do anything. Windows Vista and Windows 7 are far more intuitive, IMHO.
3) Games. I like games. Games use DirectX. Macs neither have decent video cards, nor do they support directx, unless you buy the already overpriced mac hardware plus a Windows license, which is one heck of a waste of money
4) The smug attitude that comes from everything mac related. Many mac owners (not all, but a great number) have the most infuriating smugness about them, and I honestly would not want to be associated with that in any way. This is exacerbated by the blatant false advertising that Apple spends incredible amounts of money on.
1) Price. No matter what I've had mac fans tell me, I've yet to see a mac, with the exception of the short period following the release of brand new components (such as the Nehalem mac pro mentioned in the article), that is not at least 30% more expensive than a comparably equipped Dell or HP. If you include homebuilt, the gap grows.
2) The OS. I've never had a chance to use one for very long, because every time I have had a chance, it was a miserable experience. Nothing is intuitive, and I can't find how to do anything. Windows Vista and Windows 7 are far more intuitive, IMHO.
3) Games. I like games. Games use DirectX. Macs neither have decent video cards, nor do they support directx, unless you buy the already overpriced mac hardware plus a Windows license, which is one heck of a waste of money
4) The smug attitude that comes from everything mac related. Many mac owners (not all, but a great number) have the most infuriating smugness about them, and I honestly would not want to be associated with that in any way. This is exacerbated by the blatant false advertising that Apple spends incredible amounts of money on.
OK, so here is a more detailed reasoning. You want price of PC vs Mac? OK, than to be fair, I'll take local prices of Mac vs local prices of PC components. No Newegg, as I live in Croatia, not in US.
Next step is eliminating Mac models. I don't need 8-core Nehalem with DDR3, and GT120, thank you. I need a gaming machine, so that's dual-core CPU and a much better graphics than GT120. Also, I want to be able to upgrade later on, and do it cheaply, so iMacs and minis are out. I want a normal PC case (more or less).
So here I go, store.apple.hr -> Mac Pro One 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon/3GB/640GB/GeForce GT 120/SD/CR KB - 20.279,00kn. For a comparicion, 1$ = 5,75kn, which means here it costs 3.527$ to buj this Mac.
OK, now, 3GB RAM and 640GB HDD is just fine. CPU is overkill though, but can't lower it right? But Graphics is terrible, and guess what - no upgrade option! I do get Parallels XP Pro for 1579kn which I need to get to play games, right? Nope.. I just need to buy Windows in any shop - luckily
Now, this computer won't give me any gaming, but let's see what I can buy for the same amount of money - 20.279kn
Intel Core i7 920 (2.66GHz,4.8GT/sec,8MB,Bloomfield,130W,S1366) box : 2148kn
Gigabyte EX58-UD3R : 1440kn
WD 6401AALS 640GB : 528kn
DVD-RW SuperMulti drive : 150kn
Chieftec 650W PSU, active PFC : 690kn
Kingston ValueRAM DeskTop 6GB 1333MHz DDR3 Non-ECC CL9 DIMM (Kit of 3) : 758kn
Case : 500kn (pick any you want)
VGA PCI-E GAINWARD ATI RADEON HD 4870 Golden Sample, 1GB DDR5, DVI, HDTV : 1959kn
MS Windows Vista Home Premium 64b : 879kn
So this is roughly the same machine, but instead Xeon I just got i7 which is same mostly, doubled the RAM, and got me a much much better GPU than Mac has.
Total: 9052kn
OK, what to do with the rest of 11227kn? I could do a nice thing and build the same computer once again, and still have money to spare.
so let's say I want to spend this money for 2 same computers, each 10.100kn - I have 1000kn to upgrade my config.
So let's add a top air-cooler for 500kn to overclock this babies to 4GHz, and another 500kn well spent for another 640GB drive so I have them in RAID.
Now this is nice, I get 4GHz i7, 2x640GB drives, 6GB DDR3 1333 RAM, and HD4870 1GB (Gainward GS non the less!)
And I get it TWO TIMES.
Now let's see.. I can play Tetris on above Mac Pro. I can play any game released thus far on these PCs, and play it with my wife, friend or anyone else that wants to - since I have two of them.
DIY PC or Apple? I pick DIY x2.
Don't forget, once a better GPU is out, or better CPU, I just open my PC and add it in. Can't do with Apple, unless you void warranty. Or you can hope Apple releases Mac-compatible VGA for example, and you'll be waiting a while to do it.
If something brakes, I take this malfunctioned part and replace it myself, and I do have 3y warranty on 90% parts. With apple I get 1y warranty, and if something is broken, I have to give them my whole computer to repair, and be without any computer for a while. Not on PC, remember, evenif one brakes, I have SECOND ONE which I bought for the same money.
Another thing, for gamers in particular. Everyone says "Buy Mac, and you get OS on it", but few of them remember to count in cost of Windows (any kind) if they want to dual-boot with OS X.
So you see... Apple is a no-go for me. First of all they need to get their prices in line to even be considered as an alternative. Since I'm thinking about spending 10$ extra to get a bit faster HDD, I sure can't overlook a 2x price difference.
Next after price is hardware compatibility. I want to be able to plug in any VGA for starters, and any RAM. Not to bother with RAM that may or may not work on Apple MBO, or worry about Apple having or not having drivers for new VGA cards.
Oh, and they have to forget about Xeon. Sounds nice, but it's money wasted on gaming or "normal" desktop usage.
Hope this satisfies as an answer to your questions
Next step is eliminating Mac models. I don't need 8-core Nehalem with DDR3, and GT120, thank you. I need a gaming machine, so that's dual-core CPU and a much better graphics than GT120. Also, I want to be able to upgrade later on, and do it cheaply, so iMacs and minis are out. I want a normal PC case (more or less).
So here I go, store.apple.hr -> Mac Pro One 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon/3GB/640GB/GeForce GT 120/SD/CR KB - 20.279,00kn. For a comparicion, 1$ = 5,75kn, which means here it costs 3.527$ to buj this Mac.
OK, now, 3GB RAM and 640GB HDD is just fine. CPU is overkill though, but can't lower it right? But Graphics is terrible, and guess what - no upgrade option! I do get Parallels XP Pro for 1579kn which I need to get to play games, right? Nope.. I just need to buy Windows in any shop - luckily
Now, this computer won't give me any gaming, but let's see what I can buy for the same amount of money - 20.279kn
Intel Core i7 920 (2.66GHz,4.8GT/sec,8MB,Bloomfield,130W,S1366) box : 2148kn
Gigabyte EX58-UD3R : 1440kn
WD 6401AALS 640GB : 528kn
DVD-RW SuperMulti drive : 150kn
Chieftec 650W PSU, active PFC : 690kn
Kingston ValueRAM DeskTop 6GB 1333MHz DDR3 Non-ECC CL9 DIMM (Kit of 3) : 758kn
Case : 500kn (pick any you want)
VGA PCI-E GAINWARD ATI RADEON HD 4870 Golden Sample, 1GB DDR5, DVI, HDTV : 1959kn
MS Windows Vista Home Premium 64b : 879kn
So this is roughly the same machine, but instead Xeon I just got i7 which is same mostly, doubled the RAM, and got me a much much better GPU than Mac has.
Total: 9052kn
OK, what to do with the rest of 11227kn? I could do a nice thing and build the same computer once again, and still have money to spare.
so let's say I want to spend this money for 2 same computers, each 10.100kn - I have 1000kn to upgrade my config.
So let's add a top air-cooler for 500kn to overclock this babies to 4GHz, and another 500kn well spent for another 640GB drive so I have them in RAID.
Now this is nice, I get 4GHz i7, 2x640GB drives, 6GB DDR3 1333 RAM, and HD4870 1GB (Gainward GS non the less!)
And I get it TWO TIMES.
Now let's see.. I can play Tetris on above Mac Pro. I can play any game released thus far on these PCs, and play it with my wife, friend or anyone else that wants to - since I have two of them.
DIY PC or Apple? I pick DIY x2.
Don't forget, once a better GPU is out, or better CPU, I just open my PC and add it in. Can't do with Apple, unless you void warranty. Or you can hope Apple releases Mac-compatible VGA for example, and you'll be waiting a while to do it.
If something brakes, I take this malfunctioned part and replace it myself, and I do have 3y warranty on 90% parts. With apple I get 1y warranty, and if something is broken, I have to give them my whole computer to repair, and be without any computer for a while. Not on PC, remember, evenif one brakes, I have SECOND ONE which I bought for the same money.
Another thing, for gamers in particular. Everyone says "Buy Mac, and you get OS on it", but few of them remember to count in cost of Windows (any kind) if they want to dual-boot with OS X.
So you see... Apple is a no-go for me. First of all they need to get their prices in line to even be considered as an alternative. Since I'm thinking about spending 10$ extra to get a bit faster HDD, I sure can't overlook a 2x price difference.
Next after price is hardware compatibility. I want to be able to plug in any VGA for starters, and any RAM. Not to bother with RAM that may or may not work on Apple MBO, or worry about Apple having or not having drivers for new VGA cards.
Oh, and they have to forget about Xeon. Sounds nice, but it's money wasted on gaming or "normal" desktop usage.
Hope this satisfies as an answer to your questions
katmandude
Distinguished
- Aug 28, 2003
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- 18,630
What I don't like about macs? hmmmm as much as what I don't like about most major players in the field: close to nothing, and sometimes everything (when the problems start coming thick and fast, ALL BRANDS ARE EQUAL! .. amen ^^ )
You can argue that they are overpriced, but nobody told you to get one right? As of the price tag, they are not just selling a computer; they are selling a brand ('they' (apple) would also argue that you are buying a lifestyle as well). Which I disagree with, since you can get the same type of 'lifestyle' by buying with other brands (more or less, sometimes more, sometimes less). Yes options are expensive, but like most luxury items (yes I think apple is) options are at a premium! Think of Porsche and its 30000€ extra for that nice sport gearbox...
Is it the software?
aahhreeemm? Apple software is a bit of a challenge for most pc users. Normally it shouldn't be. why? Because the essence of pcs is in interchangeability. All programs are equal in diversity, as all men are unequal “vis à vis” to intelligence. Saying to us pc users that we are sub-educated Unreal tournament, redbull drinking, sub humans is an insult to what we really are. We can adapt more easily than most apple users. Apple is more dogmatic that most computer companies. They tell you to think differently , and the first thing they do is tell you how to think…
When I open an apple program I get the impression that some smug apple person in some white, lifeless office is grinning because I “right-clicked” to get an option... the other way around a mac user on a pc gets mad because he can't 'apple + letter a function, then he says how so much better is mac is...
Most programs that we get to use are rather good. the bad ones very quickly die off , simply because the sheer numbers of 'puters make it difficult of maintain a bad program ( except for windows of course just kidding). You might sneer at a slow lumbering P IV compared to the sleek and efficient mac pro? Well now, let's tweak a bit the OS and we'll see... more to the point... macs and pcs don't quite function the same way memory wise do they?? If you have enough ram and u manage your OS right (aka don't let the OS decide what's on or not, YOU decide) most 'puters do a rather good job. Don’t they? ^^
Is it the operating system?
The OS on a mac is great! much to my regret, windows isn't, and I'm a windows man... why do we always get the leftovers from mac? It’s the general feeling I get. I think it's to do with the fact that apple caters to a precise group and windows is more a fast-food software type giant. The advantage of this is that u always find somebody who wrote the drivers... on a mac... well they do divers right the first time out... most of the time...
Is it the compatibility?
There is no compatibility crisis, there is nothing, people don't talk to each others, computers do. Period.
Is it Mac users?
No i don't think so. apple users are not really that different. except for one thing. they paided to be different. and they accepted it because it's more than just buying an expensive computer. you get the looks, the comfort, and the smile of satifaction when the jaw drops. YES it's a ego trip as well.
and YES i get the same thing when i open the side pannel of my 'PC' , yes I am a geek. Yes I’m the one that fixes your printer 3 hrs before you have to and in your paper or your IRS sheet. Yes I am a god, NOW WORSHIP ME! Rotfl ^^
for those of you who got hurt by the 'hi i'm a mac, hi i'm a pc' i say this : if you're a true silicon fan any hardware is exciting, anything else is just short of childish and unprofessional.
Or is it simply that it's Apple?
apple is a fine company, with people doing a brilliant job.
AS THE REST OF THE INDUSTRY: asus, asrock, DFI, gigabyte, Intel, MSI, nvidia, tyan, VIA, corsair, crucial, G skill, HP, kingston, Gainward, leadtek, PNY, point of view, Sapphire, Fuijtsu siemens, Hitachi, Maxtor, samsung, seagate, western digital, OCZ, supertalent, dell, microsoft... humble apologies to those i didn't mention, i'm growing tired ^^
final words. Nothing is wrong with apple, what's wrong is the people that will not accept that they pay premium prices for what they “don’t get”.
You can argue that they are overpriced, but nobody told you to get one right? As of the price tag, they are not just selling a computer; they are selling a brand ('they' (apple) would also argue that you are buying a lifestyle as well). Which I disagree with, since you can get the same type of 'lifestyle' by buying with other brands (more or less, sometimes more, sometimes less). Yes options are expensive, but like most luxury items (yes I think apple is) options are at a premium! Think of Porsche and its 30000€ extra for that nice sport gearbox...
Is it the software?
aahhreeemm? Apple software is a bit of a challenge for most pc users. Normally it shouldn't be. why? Because the essence of pcs is in interchangeability. All programs are equal in diversity, as all men are unequal “vis à vis” to intelligence. Saying to us pc users that we are sub-educated Unreal tournament, redbull drinking, sub humans is an insult to what we really are. We can adapt more easily than most apple users. Apple is more dogmatic that most computer companies. They tell you to think differently , and the first thing they do is tell you how to think…
When I open an apple program I get the impression that some smug apple person in some white, lifeless office is grinning because I “right-clicked” to get an option... the other way around a mac user on a pc gets mad because he can't 'apple + letter a function, then he says how so much better is mac is...
Most programs that we get to use are rather good. the bad ones very quickly die off , simply because the sheer numbers of 'puters make it difficult of maintain a bad program ( except for windows of course
just kidding). You might sneer at a slow lumbering P IV compared to the sleek and efficient mac pro? Well now, let's tweak a bit the OS and we'll see... more to the point... macs and pcs don't quite function the same way memory wise do they?? If you have enough ram and u manage your OS right (aka don't let the OS decide what's on or not, YOU decide) most 'puters do a rather good job. Don’t they? ^^Is it the operating system?
The OS on a mac is great! much to my regret, windows isn't, and I'm a windows man... why do we always get the leftovers from mac? It’s the general feeling I get. I think it's to do with the fact that apple caters to a precise group and windows is more a fast-food software type giant. The advantage of this is that u always find somebody who wrote the drivers... on a mac... well they do divers right the first time out...
most of the time...Is it the compatibility?
There is no compatibility crisis, there is nothing, people don't talk to each others, computers do. Period.
Is it Mac users?
No i don't think so. apple users are not really that different. except for one thing. they paided to be different. and they accepted it because it's more than just buying an expensive computer. you get the looks, the comfort, and the smile of satifaction when the jaw drops. YES it's a ego trip as well.
and YES i get the same thing when i open the side pannel of my 'PC' , yes I am a geek. Yes I’m the one that fixes your printer 3 hrs before you have to and in your paper or your IRS sheet. Yes I am a god, NOW WORSHIP ME! Rotfl ^^
for those of you who got hurt by the 'hi i'm a mac, hi i'm a pc' i say this : if you're a true silicon fan any hardware is exciting, anything else is just short of childish and unprofessional.
Or is it simply that it's Apple?
apple is a fine company, with people doing a brilliant job.
AS THE REST OF THE INDUSTRY: asus, asrock, DFI, gigabyte, Intel, MSI, nvidia, tyan, VIA, corsair, crucial, G skill, HP, kingston, Gainward, leadtek, PNY, point of view, Sapphire, Fuijtsu siemens, Hitachi, Maxtor, samsung, seagate, western digital, OCZ, supertalent, dell, microsoft... humble apologies to those i didn't mention, i'm growing tired ^^
final words. Nothing is wrong with apple, what's wrong is the people that will not accept that they pay premium prices for what they “don’t get”.
The degree to which a Mac is more expensive is much smaller now than it used to be. But not being able to build your own also means you can't upgrade by buying a new motherboard, and that's a big price difference; and it also means a less wide choice of configurations.
Add to that the limited availability of software - although that's only an issue if Windows, instead of Linux, is your standard of comparison. But thanks to the Intel Mac and Boot Camp, buying a Mac is now the way to obtain access to both worlds of software, Windows and Macintosh. If there were more Mac software, there might even be a reason for doing this.
Between price/hardware flexibility and software availability, a Mac just doesn't really seem to be an option.
And that's a pity. Many Windows users would love it if someone gave Microsoft some real competition. But Apple was content to protect its monopoly of the GUI in the beginning, and then license it to Microsoft, creating the Windows monopoly. It was content to stay a high-price niche player.
It may not be fair to blame Apple for the disappearance of the Atari ST and the Amiga. With the price of PC clones falling, something like the Atari ST, constructed like a Commodore 64, was less likely to be worth spending real money on; and the Amiga, obtaining its multimedia power from special chips, was going to lose upwards compatibility as graphics technology advanced.
Apple didn't seem to care. It didn't try to make lower-priced machines, so that it could become an alternate standard. It chose not to make machines we could afford back then. It chose not to strive for big enough market share to get adequate third-party software support.
So now, there's not enough left of Apple to even support its own operating system, and instead they just add a little proprietary UI goodness to KDE running on BSD. There's not enough left of the Macintosh to ensure the continued existence of the 680x0 architecture, or the continued competitiveness of the PowerPC architecture, and so the Macintosh platform hasn't been upwards compatible over time - although the Windows platform isn't absolutely perfect in this regard either.
Apple didn't make an effort to provide computer users leverage against Microsoft by giving them an affordable choice; instead they expected people to buy the Macintosh at a really high price because they said it was good for you. Yes, that leaves a negative attitude behind that will last for a long time.
Add to that the limited availability of software - although that's only an issue if Windows, instead of Linux, is your standard of comparison. But thanks to the Intel Mac and Boot Camp, buying a Mac is now the way to obtain access to both worlds of software, Windows and Macintosh. If there were more Mac software, there might even be a reason for doing this.
Between price/hardware flexibility and software availability, a Mac just doesn't really seem to be an option.
And that's a pity. Many Windows users would love it if someone gave Microsoft some real competition. But Apple was content to protect its monopoly of the GUI in the beginning, and then license it to Microsoft, creating the Windows monopoly. It was content to stay a high-price niche player.
It may not be fair to blame Apple for the disappearance of the Atari ST and the Amiga. With the price of PC clones falling, something like the Atari ST, constructed like a Commodore 64, was less likely to be worth spending real money on; and the Amiga, obtaining its multimedia power from special chips, was going to lose upwards compatibility as graphics technology advanced.
Apple didn't seem to care. It didn't try to make lower-priced machines, so that it could become an alternate standard. It chose not to make machines we could afford back then. It chose not to strive for big enough market share to get adequate third-party software support.
So now, there's not enough left of Apple to even support its own operating system, and instead they just add a little proprietary UI goodness to KDE running on BSD. There's not enough left of the Macintosh to ensure the continued existence of the 680x0 architecture, or the continued competitiveness of the PowerPC architecture, and so the Macintosh platform hasn't been upwards compatible over time - although the Windows platform isn't absolutely perfect in this regard either.
Apple didn't make an effort to provide computer users leverage against Microsoft by giving them an affordable choice; instead they expected people to buy the Macintosh at a really high price because they said it was good for you. Yes, that leaves a negative attitude behind that will last for a long time.
powerbaselx
Distinguished
- Feb 23, 2006
- 327
- 0
- 18,780
Some issues i don't like about Macs:
1) Price is too expensive.
2) If one buys a Mac is to use MacOS but the problem is the same as Linux: it won't run nativelly PC programs especially games (Crisys won't run natively on MacOS).
3) I still don't get if MS Office for Mac is fully compatible with Office 2003.
4) Upgrading an Apple hardware seems a strange and expensice concept while a PC is a common thing.
5) I don't like Macs graphic cards and one should be able to go to a shop, buy and install any nVidia or AMD graphic card one would like.
6) What is that thing that to run a PC Program one must switch from MacOS to Windows to run it?? That should be 100% transparent to user. After all he's buying an Apple machine with MacOS and not a PC with Windows.
7) Mac machines have always an odd and small selection of HW, always behind PCs... just take a look at Mac Mini!
Was it worth to change from PowerPC to Intel processors and one can't still run natively and transparently a PC program for at the double of a PC price? ...
1) Price is too expensive.
2) If one buys a Mac is to use MacOS but the problem is the same as Linux: it won't run nativelly PC programs especially games (Crisys won't run natively on MacOS).
3) I still don't get if MS Office for Mac is fully compatible with Office 2003.
4) Upgrading an Apple hardware seems a strange and expensice concept while a PC is a common thing.
5) I don't like Macs graphic cards and one should be able to go to a shop, buy and install any nVidia or AMD graphic card one would like.
6) What is that thing that to run a PC Program one must switch from MacOS to Windows to run it?? That should be 100% transparent to user. After all he's buying an Apple machine with MacOS and not a PC with Windows.
7) Mac machines have always an odd and small selection of HW, always behind PCs... just take a look at Mac Mini!
Was it worth to change from PowerPC to Intel processors and one can't still run natively and transparently a PC program for at the double of a PC price? ...
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