QOTD: What Don't You Like About Macs?

[tipmen]

Price comparison

Mac (some how special) cost more
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834100043&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-34-100-043-_-Product

Asus laptop with greater performance for the price
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220395

Asus laptop $1,149.99
bigger HD
better video card
more memory
cost 700 less

Mac $1,899.00
slightly better lcd
shiny
weights 1 lb less
DRR3 (won't make a difference with the cpu)

The differences are minor besides the cost

 

[krazynutz]

I'm in complete agreement with pretty much all the above. Honestly, I don't see the what's so great about OSX. Frankly, it's unintuitive as all get-out IMO. And WTF is with dragging/dropping a removable drive/card to the trash can before you can remove it? Just let me take it out for God's sake! What a giant PitA. Mac OSX is pretty and that's about it.

And quality control over hardware? Apple should worry about their OS and let other manufacturers make the machines - just like PC's. Let those manufacturers worry about hardware tech support. If Apple did that, their market share would multiply like rabbits in the spring. If elitists want to buy Apple hardware, let them throw their money away so they can say they own a "true" Mac. To each their own. Me? I'd build my own and be more proud of that machine than anything that has an Apple emblem on it.

That is, if I even had a use for a Mac...which I don't.

 

[jamesstarr]

There hardware seem to break allot more than my pc hardware. For the record my work gave me a mac book pro that has broken twice in the 4 months I have had it. I have a compaq that I got on sale for $400US, 5 years ago, and it works like a champ. The amount of productivity I have lost do to the hardware makes me dead set to never buy a mac personally.
However, the UI is the far the most polished Unix that I have used. To bad they screwed it up by remapping the command/meta/window key to do everything in there UI, but all the unix tools still use control. I remap caplocks to ctrl or command, but it is madding to try and configure all them to use the other. So now I go back using ubuntu to development on :-/.

 

[kamkal]

Few simple reasons:

1) Price (overpriced, same hardware inside, yes actually you are a PC)

2) Smug users (aka retards that cant work windows, ONLY exception to this rule is when OSX is needed for things like Final Cut, etc)

3) Please write your own OS (UNIX with a face lift doesn't really count) before you bash other OSes (this is why they switched to UNIX cuz OS 9 blows goats)

 

[Nik_I]

they are heavily overpriced, and game availability is virtually non-existent. and nobody try and counter that by saying call of duty 4 is on mac too. next to none of the games i play are on mac, and why buy one if you're going to run windows in a VM to play the games? but aside from all this, the apple users really irritate me. they have this mentality that they're better than everyone because they use apple computers. They also like to cherry pick their facts so that apple looks like the greatest tech company ever to exist. But what really bothers me is their mac vs pc ads. 99.999% of what they say is not even true. there are two that really stick out in my mind. first, the one where the pc guy has a webcam taped to his head, and they say that all apple computers have one built in. the reality is, which laptop doesn't? and alot of desktop monitors also have one built in. Second, the one where the pc guy freezes and then restarts. This one is particularly annoying because windows hasn't done that since probably windows 3.1. How is it fair to compare such an old obviously inferior OS to something like OSX, which still has its fair share of stability issues. that's what really bothers me. But the actual software isn't so bad. i wouldn't mind trying it, but i would never waste my money on an actual apple computer. i'd only ever use a hackintosh, or use OSX if apple allowed it to be legally installed on a pc.

 

[tuannguyen]

[citation][nom]thepeganator[/nom]Nehalem Xeons aren't out yet.Macs have a lot wrong with them:Over priced in the first place.Over priced upgrades.Using ECC memory when it's not needed.Lack of real gpu's, the 8800gt just doesn't cut it now.IMO they are not that nicely built and don't look terribly good (flame on people).The Apple image.The fact that apple try to limit what you can use OSX onSaying "we're so compatible you can use windows with us" isn't right when they restrict OSX to mac branded systems, it's unfair on other companies.Can you imagine the uproar that would start if MS limited use of Windows to pcs that MS built itself? That would be crazy, it's only because macs have a smaller market share that Apple get away with it.Why is Toms trying to defend Apple so bad?Been a lot of pro-mac talk recently, which is always rejected by the readers.And I love building my own pc, Apple take the fun out of that.[/citation]

I'm definitely not defending Apple, if you read my QOTD article through. I was pointing where Apple is clearly pricing its products way beyond the norm. I didn't outright say Apple is junk in the article, but you can clearly see the points I made. We also recently published an article about some guy's iPod Touch exploding and burning his leg--not good for Apple's image I'd reckon.

Also, i'm trying to ask people specifically what they don't like, not what they like. I'm making sure that people get the chance to post their opinions and I'm not moderating or censoring anything either--save for insulting comments.

/ Tuan

 

[eddieroolz]

For me, Apple killed my Mac experience by making the lower-end Macs so crappy. I had to use eMacs for school, because that was all we had, and needless to say, it was a piece of junk. I didn't always hate Apple though. There was a time when I praised Apple for its simple and functional design - circa 2004.

I was given a white Core 2 Duo Macbook to use during my last semester of high school. While the battery life impressed me, everything else did not. Trying to play a simple YouTube video stressed the GMA 950 - and my Windows laptop didn't break a sweat, and it was on GMA 950 too! Other things about the Mac OS X didn't impress me either, like its inconsistency and lack of customizeability.

Lastly, Apple itself and its users disgust me. They seem to think that only way they will get more users is to provide false information - and engage in a smear campaign when Microsoft has not done such a thing for many years. It seems to me that Apple users are the obvious aggressors - always spamming boards with hateful comments, disrespecting Windows/Linux users, and ridiculing everything else for its so-called imitation of Macs (GIZMODO, anyone?). Those guys really, really piss me off. To me, Windows users seem very docile - and only fire back when attacked. Of course, there are exceptions on both sides, but predominantly, Apple and its users are my biggest detriment.

When Apple stops its smear campaign, I will perhaps look into using Macs. But by then, I'm sure the damage is irreparable.

 

[Tindytim]

[citation][nom]JMS3096[/nom]Oh, and regarding the RAM prices: $1000 is 4 times $250, not 5 times. It's that much more for two main reasons. First, the modules themselves are laptop SO-DIMMs. Not only is DDR3 not as widely available in laptop size, but the small size of laptop modules make it more expensive to get a certain amount of storage per module. Second, 4GB modules of any type of RAM- even DDR2 desktop RAM- are exorbitantly expensive. Laptop modules ratchet up the price even more. Add DDR3, and that's only a greater premium. So, it's not just senseless markup.[/citation]
Wait, wait, wait.

You're saying that them charging a product 4 times more than what you can normally get a product for is justified, becauses Apple decided to use more expensive laptop parts, in their desktops, rather than desktop parts?

 

[wicko]

[citation][nom]HHSilentSpectre[/nom]Oh where to start?"Is it the pricing?"Nah, doesn't bug me."Is it the software?"Anything but..."Is it the operating system?"I think this can safely fall under the same category as software for the purposes of my answer..."Is it the compatibility?"In the day and age of virtualization you probably should slap yourself for even including this one as a potential gripe. This hasn't applied to Macs for a few years now, but considering the limited hardware choices Hackintosh users have."Is it Mac users?"Some of them are annoying, but less so than rabid, underinformed/misinformed hacks."Or is it simply that it's Apple?"See above.As for claims of Apple charging more for upgrades such as a 1TB hard drive, welcome to the real world. For reference let's take a pair of comparable machines from HP and Dell:HP IQ800t seriesNice 25.5" screenStarts at just under $1800No 8GB option offered at any price (void that warranty, and hold your breath b/c HP is not well known for quality)1TB storage will run you another $180.For a machine running a 9600M GS (Yeah, not even the GT) graphics option (add $40), and the best CPU this thing will take (T8400 [2.26GHz, 3MB) you have to add another $100.The net result is that the base price is really much closer to $2000.For the same price you could just get the iMac 24" 2.96GHz and I'd probably upgrade the video for $150 or $200 (depending on which upgrade you choose). Mac tax...hardly. The net result is a much faster machine with the option to upgrade to twice the memory down the road.Now let's see what Dell is offering: The XPS ONE 24" Starts at *gasp* just under $1900 if you don't want intel graphics. Again, this thing features laptop graphics, though a reasonably modern 9600GT.Dell made an interesting call and went with a 2.33GHz Quad-Core lappy chip, which is really nice for multi-taskers and people who run software that is well threaded. Kudos Dell, but a choice to go to a higher-clocked dual-core would have been nice. Speaking of no choices, you're again left with 4GB as the only memory choice.So here's my ideas:1) For anyone who's ever watched Star Trek, you know what a 'Holodeck' episode is, but for those that don't it's essential a device that can be summed up as a virtual reality room. It essential was a lazy writer's dream because they could just dream up any scenario for any genre and take their characters their via this device. In tech journalism (or hackery in this case) the equivalent is Mac hate and Mac tax.2) It's no big secret that vendors mark up the prices of hardware upgrades. Apple's 1TB upgrade (from 640GB found on all but the lowest iMac) is much less than HP's, and Dell doesn't even offer choices here! Both companies are getting away with murder as presently newegg.com shows 1TB drives at ~$90 and up. Imagine what quantity discounts get Apple/HP/Dell.3) As for giving you guys some click-through by looking via your store, I'll pass.[/citation]
Oops, guess I can't stand the users too..

No choice for RAM, yeah, that sucks, but I don't consider adding 1200 freakin dollars for 8GB of RAM a choice.

But if we're going to get into choice, what about standard desktops? Sure the all-in-ones are neat to look at, but an unnecessary expense. Yet when I look at Apple's site for a mac pro, the cheapest is 2900 (CDN). Oh, but that doesn't include a display. thats an extra 999$ for a 24" (your only option other than the $2100 30"). Want a decent videocard? cough up $240 more for the 4870. That's expensive even for buying that GPU on its own at NCIX or Newegg. Oh you wanted to hook up dual LCDs? Cough up 34$ for an adaptor.
Note that you only get a quad core Xeon at 2.66 (or an extra 300mhz for 600$! thats $2 a mhz!), 3x1GB of the *slowest* DDR3, and one 640GB HD.

I'd be happy to see you say anything positive about that.. you can pick out a model to argue for the price of macs vs any other vendor, then so will I.

 

[JMS3096]

[citation][nom]Tindytim[/nom]Wait, wait, wait.You're saying that them charging a product 4 times more than what you can normally get a product for is justified, becauses Apple decided to use more expensive laptop parts, in their desktops, rather than desktop parts?[/citation]

You look at any AIO, it uses laptop parts. But, that's not what I'm defending. I'm simply saying that TH is out of line to suggest that the RAM for the iMac is 4 times the cost of the Mac Pro for no good reason. There are reasons why it's more expensive, and I enumerated them.

 

[mpasternak]

Overpriced. Been said manytimes. The biggest concern is that they're also way too slow on the uptake. I know that Apple wants to maintain that "our system and software is tested thoroughly before release so it works flawlessly with eachother". But 6 months usually before minor refreshes is way too slow.

I've been in the market for a new laptop and have been heavily comparing the Macbook to the competitors. (I've always wanted a mac for some reason).

When we look at specs. (all prices canadian) Macbook 13.3" entry level notebook (all Aluminum) - $1,399.00
2.0ghz Dual Core, 160Gb 5400rpm hard drive. 2gb of DDR3 @ 1067mhz Ram. Geforce 9400 Hybrid SLI.

Dell's new Studio 13 is the leading competition for performance. starts at $1,299 Canadian. Proprietary minidisplay port (29.99 for VGA / DVI adapter), 2mp webcam

2.53 (so far this has increased every month) Dual Core, 320Gb 7200rpm drive. 4gb of DDR3 @ 1067 Ram, Geforce 9400 hybrid SLI. STandard VGA and HDMI outputs on body. 2mp webcam.

THis is just for the base systems. When you include the cost of upgrades.
Example as of right now on either sight. Upgrade to 128gb SSD for apple is $450. Dell has the same upgrade for $200. The ram upgrade from 4 to 6gb is $250 on Dell, Just to upgrade from 2gb to 4 on the Apple is $150, but to match the 6gb it's (n/a as of right now)

So you have to ask yourself when buying. Do you need Mac OSx or not.

if you don't. is buying the mac the best choice? you sacrifice 2gb of ram. .53ghz speed. 140gb of hard drive and hard drive performance. software compatibility (face it, you'll have to buy vista / XP anyways on either system)

What you get that the dell doesnt have. Unibody aluminum design. OSx. Are those two options worth the $200 premium for less hardware?

 

[mpasternak]

I messed up slightly.

The Mac has the proprietary Minidisplay port in which you must purchase adapters. 29.99 i believe per adapter. so if you ant to connect to other monitors not made by apple, its 29.99 per type. So my DVI is one dongle, my VGA is another dongle, my HDMI is a 3rd dongle. I've easily spent another $100 ontop.

it's the Dell that has built in VGA and HDMI as well as the standard fare of USB and esata

 

[cadder]

Is it the pricing? YES! We are all about saving money these days. If they were more open then we could buy a WD drive from newegg and install it, or we could buy ram from Corsair, or whatever.

Is it the software? No. Apple software other than the OS is probably the best point about Apple.

Is it the operating system? No. I could probably take AppleOS or Windows. I don't know enough about it to really compare with Windows, but I think either one would do what I need them to do.

Is it the compatibility? YES! I want it the way I want it. I want to go to the store and buy the part that I want and connect or install it. I want to install my software, download software, write my own software, whatever. For my latest desktop computer, I researched and carefully selected every component, and got everything exactly as I wanted. For my latest laptop, I searched Dells outlet until I found the machine with the exact combination of features that I wanted. Apple is too much take-it-or-leave-it, they think they know better than we do what we want.

Is it Mac users? Very Funny! Go to the Apple store in your mall and see if you see anybody in there that is recognizable as human.

Or is it simply that it's Apple? No. Or Maybe. Right now they act too self-righteous. I'm not sure if they deserve my business or not.

 

[sp00]

I am both a PC and Mac user, but I think it is kinda unfair to compare self built PC to Prebuilt computers like the Mac. It would be fair to compare Dell or HP workstation to Mac Pros (which uses workstation components). Plus, a lot of you are not factoring the cost of the OS. I would also agree that OSX Tiger was really bad, but OSX Leopard is equal to XP or Vista in terms of usability. When you start to compare prebuilt computers makers to Mac Pros. It starts to become clear that Mac are comparable in price. Sony came out with an all in one desktop computer similar to the iMacs and their price is comparable. The community at Tom's Hardware built their own PC and it makes sense that Apple is not for them. I'm not saying Macs are better than PC, but I think some of the comparison are not really fair.

 

[mdillenbeck]

Flat out truth here? I don't go with the "in" crowd, or what the masses deem "cool". Apple's primary market is young, hip, cool, in-your-face, sassy, sexy, and so on. I don't need the approval of others, especially when that approval is based on the things I own versus the person that I am. Thus, I find their entire marketing campaign shallow and disgusting.

Cost, while a factor, is a symptom of another underlying cause - lack of openness and transparency. It is okay if they have official 4x price hardware, but only if I have the option to go buy non-official parts without risking a legal violation. Go ahead and void my warranty, but if you make me a criminal because I don't use your hardware with your OS then I am going to stay away. Don't silence your customers, but embrace complaints and speak of solutions. Am I a customer or a consumer to you - someone you wish to build a lifetime relation with or someone you view as an ATM machine to get a quick cash from?

So there you have it. Apple, to me, is that stuck-up popular girl who will only give you the time if you have the right look and buy her lots of expensive stuff. Alternatively, Apple is the villain of their 1984 commercial - we can be creative and unique as long as it is done in their officially branded and sanctioned way. With an iPod that gets stuff from iTunes on our iMacs, using official Apple parts like Apple earbuds, Apple mice, Apple keyboards, Apple RAM, and Apple network backup systems.

(Of course, many of the other arguments already stated apply to my views - after all, The Knack drives many of us to tinker in the guts of machines.)

 

[Guest]

A few years ago my brother bought a macbook and to hear him talk at the time it was the neatest thing since bread, sliced or not. He defended the price by claiming that it was worth it to just have something that "worked". In three months after buying it, he returned it to the factory twice for repairs due to bad parts. Still he defended it because it was his little baby. He said then that he would never go back to Windows. Currently that mac is now used by his wife, and he has two other windows systems again. He also has said he will never buy another mac again. I tell you all this to give you hope that your loved ones, although they may trip and falter into the pit of brainwashing that is Mac, there is still hope that they can return and be redeemed. Stay strong!

 

[zerapio]

[citation][nom]wicko[/nom]The OS isn't too bad, but I hate the dock. I hate that Windows 7 is copying it. It is not at all intuitive, and its inefficient. I much prefer reading a word or two rather than deciphering what each program's icons are. I do like how it organizes its apps though, in terms of switching between running programs. command+tab to switch between apps and command+tilde to switch between windows in that app.[/citation]
I've got to try that. Like you I'm new to OS X. I'm finding it really painful to work with several windows open at once.

[citation][nom]wicko[/nom]I hate how painful it is to select a section of a line of code when I'm developing. I have to do some awkward 3 button press, where on the PC I just hit shift+home or shift+end depending on the direction I want. I constantly use those keys along with page up/page down, insert and delete, and I find it awkward now that they are missing.[/citation]
Dude, you get a +1 just for this. I'm with you 100%.

 

[mpasternak]

[citation][nom]sp00[/nom] Plus, a lot of you are not factoring the cost of the OS. [/citation]
I absolutely did.

Mac OSx licencing is available at app $129 for one, or 199 for a family pack of 5.

Windows Vista licencing is: Home premium (I believe the closest in features $129

Since both OS's are the same retail price. Why again are the mac computers significantly more expensive for less performance parts?

 

[Joe_The_Dragon]

Better cpu, video, bigger HD, and x2 the base ram for about $1000+ less then the mac book pro.

http://explore.toshiba.com/laptops/qosmio/F50/F50-Q551

 

[mpasternak]

again i goofed. 129 is the vista UPGRADE. not full licence. the full Premium home is 219. so the OS is more expensive than OSx. Yet the computer with it bundled is still cheaper.

 

[mpasternak]

[citation][nom]Joe_The_Dragon[/nom]Better cpu, video, bigger HD, and x2 the base ram for about $1000+ less then the mac book pro.http://explore.toshiba.com/laptops/qosmio/F50/F50-Q551[/citation]

15.4" laptops, will tend to give you better performance parts for cheaper price. more room to fit stuff. it's a bit like comparing. Apples to larger apples.. or something like that.

13.3" laptop comparison works better. but the point is absolutely made here. The components that Apple puts into their laptops are not any more inferior to those of other makers. Yet their is a signficant premium on them just because it is within the apple machine

 

[JimmiG]

A Mac *is* the operating system since the ability to run OSX (without hacks) is what sets a Mac apart from so called "PCs". Why would you buy a Mac only to run Windows or Linux? Sure, some Apple hardware looks quite attractive too, but you can easily find well designed tower cases, all-in-one designs and laptop shells for PCs too if you look around.

For the pleasure of running OSX, you pay a premium when you initially buy the machine and then again on any upgrades you order (although I suppose it's possible to use other harddrives, RAM etc. than the ones Apple sell?).

I own a a machine with a Phenom X4 9650 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB of RAM, Radeon 4850 graphics, a pro audio card (Delta 1010LT), 1640GB total storage and a 22" monitor. It doesn't compare to the highest-end Mac Pro's, but for my needs it's perfect. I have no idea what the system cost, but I'm sure you couldn't even get a Mac Mini ($599 to $799) for the price. The CPU was €120 when I bought it last fall, the mobo maybe €100 (previously used with an Athlon X2 CPU too), videocard €150, case+PSU €100 etc. an that was over 8 months ago. That's the second advantage with PC's - you can customize them any way you want, depending on what you'll use it for. With Macs and many PC OEMs, it's one size fits all - sure you can choose between a couple of CPU speeds, harddrive sizes etc. but you don't have the kind of control you do when building a PC or ordering from a good OEM that allows you to customize the system.

You can find Vista OEM licenses for pretty cheap. What kind of license does OSX come with when you get it pre-installed on a Mac? Can you transfer it to another Mac? Another difference is that Apple gets the money from both the sale of the hardware and the OS, where as PC OEMs have to pay Microsoft for their license.. so Windows (and Office) is definitely more expensive and way overpriced IMO - especially the "Ultimate", "Business" and "Professional" versions.

 

[mkvtor]

For me it's essentially the community, the pricing, and the OS. Let's begin with the community: Evangelism has spread from the hardcore users down to the average consumer, that prances around reciting Apple slogans like a religion. I've had people ask me in public, "Do you use a Mac" and if you say no they snarl then begin to reminisce with their friends like I'm a lowlife hobo. To continue I've heard countless people saying 'It just works!', 'It's beautiful!', shall I continue? Now don't get me wrong their are fanboys on each side, whether it be Linux, Mac or Windows. But Mac fanboyism is on a completely new level.

To me, that's just a turnoff. Now for pricing, I really don't mind their laptop pricing at all, granted upgrades are preposterous! But the desktops are just overpriced beyond consent. It's a no brainer I could build myself a quality desktop for a fraction of their price, but laptops are harder, so their pricing to me as far as laptops go are acceptable.

Now the operating system itself I don't necessarily like. It lacks custom features so your stuck with that Aqua look, i.e. big glossy scrollbars, Minimize,Maximize and Exit on the right, etc. The top bar is what pisses me off the most aesthetically, I use a right handed mouse so it only feels natural to arrange things to relevance, but apparently Apple is big on being different so comfort doesn't apply.

The dock annoys me, as said before 'It's like I'm boxing with my icons.', granted you can turn it off, but a complete fixation of icons to a panel pisses me off.

Lastly, the OS just seems plain to me. It seems too linear, like a child designed it. It just seems to linear and without depth to me.

The world is going from functionality to aesthetically pleasing, which pisses me off.

/rant

 

[sp00]

Maybe the current situation is different, but a year ago, when I was deciding on buying a 8-core Mac Pro or a 8-core Dell Workstation for 3D Graphics, the Mac Pro came out a lot cheaper. At the time, my Mac Pro came out to $3000 and a similar Dell Workstation came out to $4000. When I priced a self built workstation to the Mac Pro I got around $2,500. I would have gone with the self built computer, but I had a client that needed the work done ASAP. The Mac Pro was the cheaper choice at the time. Obviously, the upgrade pricing at Apple is horrible, but the Mac Pro Ram and HDD is easy to replace with Newegg.com

 

[Slobogob]

I wish i would've seen this article sooner.

Here are two articles by Mr. Nguyen about Apple and prices:

1. The Apple Mac Cost Misconception : Macs and Their Prices , where he rambles how competitive macs are priced and then...
2. Study Finds Macs Cost 2X Windows PCs, just two days later.

A 180° turn in just 2 days - something that would make even the most cunning politician green with envy.

I just wanted to point that out for those readers that don't really know what Mr. Nguyen means with "Based on some of my past articles, some things are really clear, while others are still up in the air."