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I have a BE (Electrical & Electronic) from a New Zealand university. It was a complete waste of time. Learnt nothing but report writing. Whats worse is that this is very well known in the electrical engineering community in New Zealand and yet they are allowed to get away with it.
It seems that the concept of education has become a myth. Its all about money making.
It seems that the concept of education has become a myth. Its all about money making.
The reason there are so many Microsoft and Cisco certs is that those two companies dominate their respective areas, operating systems and network hardware. The vast majority of networks out there are running on Cisco network hardware and Microsoft software (exchange, active directory, windows, etc.).
As for CCIE/CISSP. A CCIE is incredibly difficult to get and once you have it you can essentially write your own ticket (work where you want for pretty much any hourly rate you can name). CISSP is the hot cert over the past couple of years but is in the process of being diluted in value in the same way that the MCSE was.
I agree with those questioning the value of education. In my experience you don't learn much of anything in college these days. Your writing skills may improve a bit from the high school level, but not necessarily, depending on what level you were at in high school. I'd take high level certifications over college education (I'd rather hire a CCNA with a high school diploma than someone with a B.S. in "IT" or similar degree) and experience over either one. Experience is really what it's all about.
As for CCIE/CISSP. A CCIE is incredibly difficult to get and once you have it you can essentially write your own ticket (work where you want for pretty much any hourly rate you can name). CISSP is the hot cert over the past couple of years but is in the process of being diluted in value in the same way that the MCSE was.
I agree with those questioning the value of education. In my experience you don't learn much of anything in college these days. Your writing skills may improve a bit from the high school level, but not necessarily, depending on what level you were at in high school. I'd take high level certifications over college education (I'd rather hire a CCNA with a high school diploma than someone with a B.S. in "IT" or similar degree) and experience over either one. Experience is really what it's all about.
[citation][nom]tleavit[/nom]I have no certificates. I have a 4 year bachelors from a major university. I am the Director of IT for my company. I always take a college degree + experience before any certification(without the prior). Certifications are for people who could not complete a valid degree (Those who have not). Have I looked at certs, yes I have however it comes down to this. I know guys who got accounting degrees as their bachelors and tool Microsoft certification (read the books) and passed the testes without even touching a computer in real life.Don't short change yourself. Go get your college degree. At that point, its fine to supplement that degree with certs. I know this may be rough to head for some but listen, most good jobs wont let you in the door without the degree first. You would not work in my shop.[/citation]
So you will hire someone who sat in lectures for 4 years and learned about more history and math than IT related subjects? Over someone who actually has knowledge pertaining to their degree? What an idiot you must be.
College has become a farce, if they had it their way you would have to hold a 2 year degree to flip burgers. The goverment subsidies and easy to get student loans have inflated the market, letting even guys like you into the college market place. This has produced a plethora of useless degrees. Unless you are going to be a lawyer or doctor, college is a waste.
So you will hire someone who sat in lectures for 4 years and learned about more history and math than IT related subjects? Over someone who actually has knowledge pertaining to their degree? What an idiot you must be.
College has become a farce, if they had it their way you would have to hold a 2 year degree to flip burgers. The goverment subsidies and easy to get student loans have inflated the market, letting even guys like you into the college market place. This has produced a plethora of useless degrees. Unless you are going to be a lawyer or doctor, college is a waste.
im 24 with 0 certs working in a DC managing over 50K customers, my job position is multi lvl. application engineer, DB admin.... and so on and so on. there is no way at my age i could have all the certs for all the crap i do and even if i did would not make up for real world experience.
neiroatopelcc
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[citation][nom]t2couger[/nom]im 24 with 0 certs working in a DC managing over 50K customers, my job position is multi lvl. application engineer, DB admin.... and so on and so on. there is no way at my age i could have all the certs for all the crap i do and even if i did would not make up for real world experience.[/citation]
Exactly! I'm 28 and have worked IT at this company since '98 - finished my final exam as 'it guy' in '99 and kept the job as a real employee since. There's no substitute for experience. At my company we'd rather take young people with a short education (mine's only 2½ years) and experience, than some 'old fool' who's got 8 years of studying behind him, and in the process forgot how the real world works.
Exactly! I'm 28 and have worked IT at this company since '98 - finished my final exam as 'it guy' in '99 and kept the job as a real employee since. There's no substitute for experience. At my company we'd rather take young people with a short education (mine's only 2½ years) and experience, than some 'old fool' who's got 8 years of studying behind him, and in the process forgot how the real world works.
masop
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Most of my 50+ certifications won't get me a six figure income in this economy, but they have together gotten me closer to where I want to be at this point in my career. I wouldn't have gotten where I'm at right now without them. I've got the following certifications:
Comptia A+ (1997)
HP Printers (Nearly all laserjet and inkjet models thru 2005)
HP Laptops, Desktops and Workstations (Most models thru 2004)
HP Servers (A few models thru 2001)
Lexmark (Several inkjet and laserjet models thru 2001)
IBM Desktop and Mobile Systems (Most models through 2001)
Dell Desktops, Workstations, Laptops and Servers (All models thru 2001)
HP Certified Professional - Desktops, Workstations and Thin Clients (2004)
HP Certified Professional - Mobile Products (2003)
Microsoft Windows XP MCP (2006)
As you'll notice, I'm a computer and printer troubleshooter and repair guy by trade, but have expanded to desktop support and some network stuff (mild) over the last several years. I've got my own side business, though things have remained dry for years. It is a cut throat business out there in computer repair.
My certifications are all quite outdated as I've been in the same job for almost 3 years now and have gotten overly comfortable, lol. I do plan on upgrading my certifications where relevant, as you never know what can happen these days, especially with your job. There isn't really such thing as job security anymore, even if you work for yourself. 🙂
The bottom line is if you work in IT, get a relevant baseline certification (ie; Comptia A+, Comptia Network+, MCDST/MOS, MCP, Etc) for your area in IT to get in the door, then study and at the same time get tons of experience to add to your resume. Build up your certs as needed at the same time if you have the time. It will make the world of a difference in the end.
-- MaSoP
Comptia A+ (1997)
HP Printers (Nearly all laserjet and inkjet models thru 2005)
HP Laptops, Desktops and Workstations (Most models thru 2004)
HP Servers (A few models thru 2001)
Lexmark (Several inkjet and laserjet models thru 2001)
IBM Desktop and Mobile Systems (Most models through 2001)
Dell Desktops, Workstations, Laptops and Servers (All models thru 2001)
HP Certified Professional - Desktops, Workstations and Thin Clients (2004)
HP Certified Professional - Mobile Products (2003)
Microsoft Windows XP MCP (2006)
As you'll notice, I'm a computer and printer troubleshooter and repair guy by trade, but have expanded to desktop support and some network stuff (mild) over the last several years. I've got my own side business, though things have remained dry for years. It is a cut throat business out there in computer repair.
My certifications are all quite outdated as I've been in the same job for almost 3 years now and have gotten overly comfortable, lol. I do plan on upgrading my certifications where relevant, as you never know what can happen these days, especially with your job. There isn't really such thing as job security anymore, even if you work for yourself. 🙂
The bottom line is if you work in IT, get a relevant baseline certification (ie; Comptia A+, Comptia Network+, MCDST/MOS, MCP, Etc) for your area in IT to get in the door, then study and at the same time get tons of experience to add to your resume. Build up your certs as needed at the same time if you have the time. It will make the world of a difference in the end.
-- MaSoP
neiroatopelcc
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those a+ and network+ etc things - are they stuff only americans have? I've never heard of it - sounds like some dummy certifications that any collage kid would attain if they want to work with IT or something? or is it international stuff like ccnp and mcp etc?
dark_lord69
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squatchman
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Certs are cheap... what is the value of anything that requires absolutely no critical thinking to achieve?
Back in the early part of the decade I had worked though A+, Network+, CCNA, and MCSE before I realized that I was still under the 50k a year mark. I quit that job as soon as the next college semester started a few years back and spent a few semesters hungry while getting my Bachelor's of Science in Computer Science.
Instead of trouble shooting why some douchebag in accounting can't check her email or why Bob down in HR can't print my work actually matters to me now, and I make more than double what I made as a computer jockey.
Good luck with your certs.
Back in the early part of the decade I had worked though A+, Network+, CCNA, and MCSE before I realized that I was still under the 50k a year mark. I quit that job as soon as the next college semester started a few years back and spent a few semesters hungry while getting my Bachelor's of Science in Computer Science.
Instead of trouble shooting why some douchebag in accounting can't check her email or why Bob down in HR can't print my work actually matters to me now, and I make more than double what I made as a computer jockey.
Good luck with your certs.
I cant believe many people here point out the obvious. Most of them are those with zero certs.
Of course experience and skill matters most. Many people who are skilled in their line of work have certs related to them.
Also, it's no different than someone having no certs and no clue, than someone having certs and no clue.
Of course experience and skill matters most. Many people who are skilled in their line of work have certs related to them.
Also, it's no different than someone having no certs and no clue, than someone having certs and no clue.
FlayerSlayer
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grandshadow3581
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hillarymakesmecry
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ACtually, going to college does have value. it teaches critical thinking, a valuable skill in any career. High school is like hear and regurgitate- if you can memorize, you'll do fine. College, or at least at the university level that I attended (don't know what jr college is like, never been there, but my brother and sister both went and then transferred to good universities so I assume it's similar), you have to come up with your own ideas and defend them. Without that skill, you'll never stand out.
I have a hard time respecting someone who can't argue their way out of a paper bag.
I have a hard time respecting someone who can't argue their way out of a paper bag.
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