Question R6: Similar Cases

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DefinitelyNotTom

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Again, no. The front door swings open for access.

who's going to want to open a door every time they need to use the internal drive? That would be pretty weird.

As I figured would happen Amazon quickly sold out of the case yet again, while I was deciding. I was going to reorder it despite already having it, because it's $5 less and I could use my $70 credit, then return the first one. Now I have to wait yet again. If they ever get the define c back ins tock I am still tempted by that one. Actually they SHOULD get it back ins tock because I shipped one back to them. lol.l
 

Darkbreeze

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Not really, how often do you ACTUALLY use the optical drive? There are very few people that even use optical drives anymore, preferring instead to use flash drives, so the fact that it even HAS an optical drive bay is serious nod to old school users. Almost all cases these days completely lack them. Most will use either flash drives or like me, external BD or DVD drives.
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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Not really, how often do you ACTUALLY use the optical drive? There are very few people that even use optical drives anymore, preferring instead to use flash drives, so the fact that it even HAS an optical drive bay is serious nod to old school users. Almost all cases these days completely lack them. Most will use either flash drives or like me, external BD or DVD drives.
A lot of people still want them. In a lot of reviews for other case people whine about them not having a 5.25 bay.

I would not use it much, but it's still weird and if we go by the fact that I won't use it often, then why install one at all? And if not installing one at all why spend so much for the r6? That is part of the selling point on the r6 is its 5.25 bay.

I have an external usb 3 drive and usb3 would allow it to be about as fast as internal sata. I just thought it would be a little nicer having an internal one and of course front usb type c since I wasted all that extra money on a mobo that can sue usb type c.

Just seems a shame to be out $2k and then not go all the way on what I wanted. But on the flip side I'd be paying $100+ extra just to move type c to front (and have more total, as I'd still have the rear one also) and move optical from external to internal, all while gaining 11 pounds of weight.

What are some common devices that sue usb type c? I wonder if I'd even need 2 of them. Like you said, I could get a hub, anyway, but just curious because if I'd need exactly 2 the r6 would be nice and no need for a hub.
 

Darkbreeze

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I don't agree. The 100 people you see complaining about it across various reviews and forums are small beans compared to the tens of thousands of people worldwide buying cases in any given year. You don't see the 99 people who couldn't care less about the internal optical drive bay, chiming in to say how they don't care about that. You only hear that one person out of 100 who wants to see it still there.

Bottom line is, I expect these to be completely gone within two years. They started phasing them out about three years ago, and five years is about average for outdated technology to become designed out of products. In some cases, a bit longer, but not more than another three years I suspect. It's already almost impossible to find an internal 5.25" DVD or BD burner that is a new design. Mostly they are all designs that are several years old and in most cases are probably 90% old stock that retailers are happy to deplete. Personally, I wish it weren't this way, because I think having them in the case makes for a less cluttered desktop, but it also, in this age of front mounted radiators, uncluttered free flowing air path cases, is an obstruction that most users would prefer not to have.

Obviously, this won't hold true for workstations or servers, where there is little concern for the same considerations that an enthusiast or gaming build might have.

The only USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type C devices that I know of that can really benefit would be external SSD enclosures. I really can't think of anything else, at least for the Gen 2 Type C throughput, that can use the speed EXCEPT for VR devices.
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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I don't agree. The 100 people you see complaining about it across various reviews and forums are small beans compared to the tens of thousands of people worldwide buying cases in any given year. You don't see the 99 people who couldn't care less about the internal optical drive bay, chiming in to say how they don't care about that. You only hear that one person out of 100 who wants to see it still there.

Bottom line is, I expect these to be completely gone within two years. They started phasing them out about three years ago, and five years is about average for outdated technology to become designed out of products. In some cases, a bit longer, but not more than another three years I suspect. It's already almost impossible to find an internal 5.25" DVD or BD burner that is a new design. Mostly they are all designs that are several years old and in most cases are probably 90% old stock that retailers are happy to deplete. Personally, I wish it weren't this way, because I think having them in the case makes for a less cluttered desktop, but it also, in this age of front mounted radiators, uncluttered free flowing air path cases, is an obstruction that most users would prefer not to have.

Obviously, this won't hold true for workstations or servers, where there is little concern for the same considerations that an enthusiast or gaming build might have.

The only USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type C devices that I know of that can really benefit would be external SSD enclosures. I really can't think of anything else, at least for the Gen 2 Type C throughput, that can use the speed EXCEPT for VR devices.
yeah that is all I have as far as 2 type c is an external ssd.

As for the rest, that doesn't matter if a billion people don't care about optical, still they included the 5.25 drive, so of the people who "do" care, they probably all find it weird you'd have to open a door to use it.

This is a tough decision... But as infrequently as I'd use EITHER an external ssd or optical drive of any type, I am really thinking about going back to define c. It's just that it feels dumb to have gotten the meg ace if not going to utilize any of its advantages, ie the type c in front. So I don't know...

In a way it's BETTER using an external optical drive because then when new changes come, such as it flat allowing you to burn and watch 4k content (or later 8k) you don't have to go switching out parts, you simply unplyg a cable and plug in a new device there.

So anyway... I'm torn, but probably what I should have done is get a less expensive mobo and define c and be done. I can't do that now as I already took off the upc and claimed a rebate. I mean I could try reselling it as new other on ebay, I guess, though. But there's no real good choices for a cheaper mobo. People bashed the pro carbon enough to scare me off of it.
 

Karadjgne

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I use my optical bays, every now and then. I have stuff on cd, sometimes I'll burn a DVD for a bud, so I don't have to loan them the original, and in my R5, the second 5.25 slot contains a pcie card adapter for the microsd in my cameras, much faster than using camera to pc connection. It's also got 4x usb3 ports.
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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I use my optical bays, every now and then. I have stuff on cd, sometimes I'll burn a DVD for a bud, so I don't have to loan them the original, and in my R5, the second 5.25 slot contains a pcie card adapter for the microsd in my cameras, much faster than using camera to pc connection. It's also got 4x usb3 ports.
I forgot the r5 had 2 5.25 bays. Originally I wanted that case, but I have waited so long the r6 came out. lol. Some actually prefer the r5, though. Only thing for me is it not having the gen 2 type c. Otherwise it would be interesting having 2 5.25 bays.

I prefer discs to digital/streaming. So I import all of my cds and may burn some discs, etc... But I do have an external one.
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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Now I can't find a clear enough image of the ports on the x570 meg ace to get an idea where the type c is located to see if I think it would be an ordeal plugging something into the back like that.

From the drawing/pic I saw, it doesn't even look like they make clear on it which ethernet port is the 25. vs. which is the 1g lan, either! And what about usb 3 vs. usb 2? That annoys me on my prebuilt.... it doesnt indicate in any way which usb ports are 1.1 vs. which are 2.0!

Speaking of my prebuilt... on passmark the 3900x has over 10 times the score as my current cpu. That shows 1. how long it should last and 2. how I went overboard on parts as I clearly don't need a cpu 10 times as fast as what I have been using for years.

I'm still trying to decide if I need 2 usb type c ports anyway... if not I could get the define, use the rear one, use my external burner, save $125-$150 in the process. On the flip side, since I want it to last, the more current tech the better.
 

Karadjgne

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Think about it. How long have you had your current cpu? 6 years or so? So in another 6 years expect to be exactly where you are now. If you moved up to a mediocre cpu like the 2600, you'd been be upgrading again far sooner. Extra few $ gets you to extra few years.

I had up until a few days ago 2 personal pc's. A i5-3570k and a i7-3770k. 6 years ago everyone, and I mean everyone, said I was a fool, ALL I needed was a quad core, at $100 less than the i7. I just sold the i5-3570k pc for $180 because it'd no longer do what I wanted it to do. The $100 more expensive i7-3770K is still jammin away.

There's something to be said sometimes for going a little overboard.

I like my little card reader, cost me $14 but has plenty of usb3 ports, it's tucked away when I don't need it, don't have an external (anymore) cluttering up desk/drawer space and doesn't get as filled with dust like the top ports do. Opening the door is easy enough to do, it's a barely held magnet, and is reversible so will open either way I need it to. Been totally happy with my R5, zero things to complain about. With 3x 140mm fans, even airflow is plenty adequate.

I have cats, well my wife does, so a heavy case is a serious bonus, they jump on the desk and it doesn't move, period.
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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Think about it. How long have you had your current cpu? 6 years or so? So in another 6 years expect to be exactly where you are now. If you moved up to a mediocre cpu like the 2600, you'd been be upgrading again far sooner. Extra few $ gets you to extra few years.

I had up until a few days ago 2 personal pc's. A i5-3570k and a i7-3770k. 6 years ago everyone, and I mean everyone, said I was a fool, ALL I needed was a quad core, at $100 less than the i7. I just sold the i5-3570k pc for $180 because it'd no longer do what I wanted it to do. The $100 more expensive i7-3770K is still jammin away.

There's something to be said sometimes for going a little overboard.

I like my little card reader, cost me $14 but has plenty of usb3 ports, it's tucked away when I don't need it, don't have an external (anymore) cluttering up desk/drawer space and doesn't get as filled with dust like the top ports do. Opening the door is easy enough to do, it's a barely held magnet, and is reversible so will open either way I need it to. Been totally happy with my R5, zero things to complain about. With 3x 140mm fans, even airflow is plenty adequate.

I have cats, well my wife does, so a heavy case is a serious bonus, they jump on the desk and it doesn't move, period.
yeah, a lot of good points there. As far as my current pc, I didn't even get a good one, though, and still have somehow had it last around 6 years. For the past few months it's been occasionally having so bad of issues that I have literally started banging on it and wanting to kick it, though. lol. I've had it lock up the pc to the point where even doing ctr alt del to get into task manager took 5+ minutes to work. Or sometimes wouldn't at all so I had to force it to shutdown.... So I need to get this built soon. :)

The thing is, though, I obviously don't "need" the front usb type c port or internal optical drive. That and the 3 140mm fans vs. the define c's 2 fans (I believe 120mm?) are about the only things i'd be getting and then would be out the extra money.

I am truly 50/50 on the decision, though. I keep swinging from one choice to the other. I'm a nervous wreck because I have spent so much now I don't want to regret my final decisions.

I figured it was worth a shot to ask fractal if an updated define is in the works, but they said they can't tell me. :)
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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I should just throw all of my parts out a window and forget building because I can't decide on case or RAM or whether or not to use the psu with 1 8-pin cou plug or not. Too many decisions to make.

Also, the weight of the r6 wouldn't be as big of an annoyance if I felt like there was a reason for such a heavy case, but all it's going to be is a HUGELY empty case. I have 1 gpu, only using included case fans, no water cooling, no hdds, and all ssds are m2 to connect to the mobo. It's going to be a huge emptiness inside it and weight almost double of the define c to boot.

That's what's sop frustrating is they lonely add certain stuff on their main cases, but then their main cases have tons of stuff some people don't need.

Kind of like the high price of the mobo I got and it had rgb….. so I am paying extra for rgb when I don't care about it.
 

Darkbreeze

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It's no different than anything else in life. Cable packages, vehicles, homes, etc. They all come with things we don't necessarily want or need and do come with things that we'll probably never use, and very rarely is any of it immediately changeable just because we'd prefer it to be. As usual, I think you are getting your own self backed into the corner through frustration that would be better dealt with by simply accepting the fact that you are not going to get EXACTLY what you want, and simply choose the item that is mostly what you want even if it has a few things you won't use right away. There are many examples of things we might not feel we need right now, but later on, since we have it, we decide to use it anyhow and realize that it is actually desirable or useful to us and we are glad we have it after all.

In other words, sometimes a thing is what it is, and you simply deal with it, because bitching and moaning about it does no good anyway and just results in getting us worked up for no damn good reason and we still have to decide SOMETHING at some point no matter what, so better to just make a choice and live with it for better or worse.
 

g-unit1111

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I forgot the r5 had 2 5.25 bays. Originally I wanted that case, but I have waited so long the r6 came out. lol. Some actually prefer the r5, though. Only thing for me is it not having the gen 2 type c. Otherwise it would be interesting having 2 5.25 bays.

I prefer discs to digital/streaming. So I import all of my cds and may burn some discs, etc... But I do have an external one.
Seriously, an external is all I ever use, and this is coming from someone with a rather large media collection.
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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It's no different than anything else in life. Cable packages, vehicles, homes, etc. They all come with things we don't necessarily want or need and do come with things that we'll probably never use, and very rarely is any of it immediately changeable just because we'd prefer it to be. As usual, I think you are getting your own self backed into the corner through frustration that would be better dealt with by simply accepting the fact that you are not going to get EXACTLY what you want, and simply choose the item that is mostly what you want even if it has a few things you won't use right away. There are many examples of things we might not feel we need right now, but later on, since we have it, we decide to use it anyhow and realize that it is actually desirable or useful to us and we are glad we have it after all.

In other words, sometimes a thing is what it is, and you simply deal with it, because bitching and moaning about it does no good anyway and just results in getting us worked up for no damn good reason and we still have to decide SOMETHING at some point no matter what, so better to just make a choice and live with it for better or worse.
yeah, true there. Another example is cable or satellite tv..... people have always wanted to be able to just pick channels for their package and pay less, but they are forced to take the ones they care nothing bout and pay for them. lol. Still, it would be nice if they had a mobo on the ace level, but without rgb, at a lower cost, even if it's just $10-$20 less.

Seriously, an external is all I ever use, and this is coming from someone with a rather large media collection.
I'd definitely get by with external, especially since it's a usb 3 one. Main reason I started considering one is because I had to put my external one on top of my case in the past, which just adds more to the height. And technically sata ones are usually faster, although I believe usb 3 gets it to around the same speed.

So I mean internal optical drive and front usb type c aren't THAT important, but at the same time spending so much I hate to then cheap out in those areas. Also since I am just using included case fans, it's 3 1409mm vs. 2 120mm. Not sure if that would make a BIG difference or not, but I do recall seeing the r6 staying quite a bit cooler in tests than the define c. I honestly don't remember if they used the default fans, though.
 

Darkbreeze

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If you were NOT concerned about the external drive bay, you could simply go with the Define S2, that does not have the hinged door like that, and no drive bay at all, and no cages in the way of airflow in the big chamber. Pretty sure that one is available with front panel USB C, but I'd have to check. I have the first gen, not the second, so not sure actually.
 

g-unit1111

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If you were NOT concerned about the external drive bay, you could simply go with the Define S2, that does not have the hinged door like that, and no drive bay at all, and no cages in the way of airflow in the big chamber. Pretty sure that one is available with front panel USB C, but I'd have to check. I have the first gen, not the second, so not sure actually.
Another option would be the case that I recently bought which is the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M, which has a nice HD cage-free chamber and it is also one of the few that has a 5.25" bay.
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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The S2 costs more than I spent on the r6 and it doesn't really benefit me anywhere else. Still same dimensions and weight.

The door itself wouldn't be the hugest of deals for the optical drive, BUT I just realized…. the front usb ports are behind it, too, aren't they? I didn't even look for those when I was looking at the graphic. Having to open the door any time you use the usb port would be really no less trouble than using arear one. Or maybe they are above the door. I honestly can't remember right now if the door is the whole height of the front of the case.
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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As for phanteks, I originally bought a p400 and never opened it and am selling it because phanteks isn't as quiet as fractal. Plus I bought one with side panel, despite not wanting a side panel. I had a coupon for $50 off so I rushed in my decision and it backfired.

Btw, what is the DEAL with people almost immediately buying up the r6 and define c like they're candy? This is almost as crazy as gpus a year ago where you had to buy them in a few mins or they were all gone. I wouldn't have thought people would be that crazy about rushing to buy up all stock on these 2 cases, but they are.... Now the are right back out of stock on both at amazon. They never stay ins tock for over about 12 hours. And the define c is now MORE expensive than the one I returned.
 

Darkbreeze

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Cases really aren't "quiet". Yes, they can affect noise levels by burying everything under sound dampening and put as much distance as possible between the fans and the outside of the case, or lowering the maximum speed of the included fans, but in reality a quiet system is achieved by BUYING fans that are quiet, like Noctua. Most Noctua fans, run in an open air case, are quieter than most other fans regardless of WHAT case you run them in. I do agree however that using quiet fans IN an R series case, probably nets you an overall lower decibel level so I'm not going to argue against that. I'm a straight up Fractal fanboy, but it's because they, like EVGA, have exceptional customer service after the sale.
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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Cases really aren't "quiet". Yes, they can affect noise levels by burying everything under sound dampening and put as much distance as possible between the fans and the outside of the case, or lowering the maximum speed of the included fans, but in reality a quiet system is achieved by BUYING fans that are quiet, like Noctua. Most Noctua fans, run in an open air case, are quieter than most other fans regardless of WHAT case you run them in. I do agree however that using quiet fans IN an R series case, probably nets you an overall lower decibel level so I'm not going to argue against that. I'm a straight up Fractal fanboy, but it's because they, like EVGA, have exceptional customer service after the sale.
Agree with you on most things, but not here. too many people have said the case makes a big difference on it. And tests on gamersnexus show that there is a very large difference depending on case. Of course the parts in them matter, but so does the case, thus why fractal sells so many. Not everyone plays demanding games with their pc near full load. On the lesser loads, the case will make a big difference where one will have you not hear any noise at all and the otherer noise. It's not always the fans, either, but of course I may go without HDDs.

edit: back to my other post about them selling fast... sew what I mean? Literally a few hours ago they got the define c back in stock with 1 available.... now gone again. These two cases keep selling out immediately on amazon.
 
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DefinitelyNotTom

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People say g.skill is so good, yet they are flat ignoring me because I dared point out that a lot of their kits don't even HAVE a qvl on the g.skill site, when they told me look at THEIR qvl to determine which kits to get. Kind of hard to go by their list on kits that they don't even bother making a list for. Look up almost any 32gb 3400 kit, for instance.... no qvl on there.

Not a good sign when a manufacturer decides to ignore. And in my opinion if they were really so good, they'd have offered to test my kit in the mobo themselves. They obviously have the mobo and the kits. At the very least they should have responded to say how their warranty means anything on the kits with no qvl listed.
 

Darkbreeze

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Memory manufacturers don't have a "QVL" list. The qualified vendors list is what motherboard manufacturers have to qualify vendor kits for THEIR motherboards. Memory manufacturers have compatibility lists, and G.Skill specifically has it's RAM configurator.

https://www.gskill.com/configurator

These are the sticks G.Skill says are compatible with the X570 Ace. There are like ten pages. I don't know what you are not seeing that you want to see, but if it's not listed on those pages, then it's not compatible.

https://www.gskill.com/configurator?page=1&cls=1529635169&manufacturer=1524715120&chipset=1562635032&model=1562638172


I had no trouble finding what I was looking for, at all. I do see that for THAT board, and possibly/probably for the entire X570 lineup when using Ryzen 3000 series CPUs, there seems to be no support for 3400mhz sticks. 3466mhz sticks ARE supported and show up in the list, so apparently G.Skill is saying that those sticks don't work on that board or with that series. This is not much different than most 1st and 2nd gen Ryzen that wouldn't work with 3000mhz sticks and had to be run, even now, at 2933mhz in many and even most cases.

I do find it odd that 3400mhz sticks are not listed on their RAM configurator for any X570/Ryzen 3000 combinations though, so I've reached out to G.Skill to see what they have to say about it. It may be that they feel that the timings and speed on those sticks present issues for the configuration so they have intentionally not listed them, or it could be an oversight. Either way, I should when they get back to me about it.
 
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DefinitelyNotTom

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Memory manufacturers don't have a "QVL" list.
want to bet?

From g.skill: "Follow the G.Skill QVL as it is most accurate. Motherboard QVLs typically have the outdated information."

Link to their site showing the g.skill QVL for my kit: http://www.gskill.com/product/165/168/1536218142/F4-3200C15D-32GTZKWTrident-ZDDR4-3200MHz-CL15-15-15-35-1.35V32GB-(2x16GB)

Notice it has a QVL. This is who G.Skill says are qualified vendors for the kit and as I showed you above they themselves say don't look at ones on the mobo manufacturers' sites. And the tool you linked to is simply finding kits based on the g.skill qvl, I'm sure.

And lucky me, Newegg ahs gone down on the price AFAIN for my kit where I am going to lose a fortune by selling mine and buying a new kit. So much for people's claims that Samsung b die would be valuable as it's discontinued. Mine is selling for only $190 for 3200 32gb Samsung b die.
 

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