I am not an ultra high end GPU buyer. Historically, I have always purchased in the mid-high band of products. As such, the 8800GTS & 2900XT falls within my “zone”.
From my perspective, I am disappointed with the 2900XT’s balance of Price/Performance/Power/Features. When compared with the 8800GTS it wins in some areas & loses in others. I had hoped that ATI/AMD would substantially raise the competitive bar. They did not. Their product simply competes with the currently established Price/Performance/Power/Features balance of the 8800GTS. Hence, there is not a huge competitive fire under NVidia to improve their products. I had hopes that a very strong showing by ATI would motivate NVidia to raise the bar again. 🙁
From my perspective, I am disappointed with the 2900XT’s balance of Price/Performance/Power/Features. When compared with the 8800GTS it wins in some areas & loses in others. I had hoped that ATI/AMD would substantially raise the competitive bar. They did not. Their product simply competes with the currently established Price/Performance/Power/Features balance of the 8800GTS. Hence, there is not a huge competitive fire under NVidia to improve their products. I had hopes that a very strong showing by ATI would motivate NVidia to raise the bar again. 🙁
well do you think Nvidia is just sitting around. they will shrink the die for G80 to 80MM and increase the clock Speed and if rumours prove to be true for 8900 series that it has 160 stream processors then there no chance for R600 to take the crown back
TheGreatGrapeApe
Champion
- Feb 18, 2003
- 20,040
- 0
- 50,960
Well we don't know that, we haven't seen the XTX, so whether they could or couldn't is questionable, that they decided not to initially is obvious, but that was the same with the X1800XL launch, and then shortly after the X1800XT outpaced it. So who is this scenario different? If they took another month to launch the XTX it would be the same timeline, so drawing conclusions now would just be as weak as those who said the exact same thing last time.
It's far from the most significant market sector, that's the midrange $100-250 sector, and that's a shambles right now. There is PR value in the high end butit's still rather limited, because only a few people know the top performing cards, and those do enough research to figure out what's best. You wanna talk PR, then 3Dmark is equally valuable, and it seems one of the few things the HD2900 does well out of the box is 3Dmark. So by your reasoning those printed THG barcharts and such at BestBuy and FutureShop for the Sheep to read, would currently favour the AMD solution, even if thos of us smart enough to do research would know that Bunghoiomarks don't tell the whole story... by far.
While I understand the sentiment, remember alot of us, including me, said get the GTX when it came out, or get the eVGA GTS and give upgrade options, and when the GTS-320 was selling so low, once again, good time to buy. While I understand your dissapointment, I would over-react by painting the entire scenario black, because while it's not rosey red, it's not terrible, and there's obvious improvement points for the R600 to take into the R650 design. So it's far from a final step. It just sucks to anticipate something better and being let down, to me that was like Spiderman3.
No company does, but like the HD2900 launch proved, and the GF7900 launch proved, despite having the time to make another product, it doesn't mean your next one will be significantly better than the other guy's next product. If the GF7800-7900 vs X1800-1900 launches showed us anything, they don't have to twiddle their tumbs to come up short, and both companies have experienced that (just look at the X1650Pro)
If you haven't heard about the XTX then you haven't been researching all that much. There's still as little solid evidence about the XTX as there was about the XT prior to it's launch. Lotsa rumour, but little colid info.
However, that it's eventually launch and arrival may be in question, it's existanceisn't as there have been many engineering samples out there with the higher clocked bios and GDDR4 memory, so it's not questionable that there was another card meant to compete with the GTX, that it would or will be effective is another story.
TheGreatGrapeApe
Champion
- Feb 18, 2003
- 20,040
- 0
- 50,960
No it's FartCry, and check your history, I've called it that (check pretty much every time I've called it that) since nVidia got busted for optimizing their drivers for it.
So really, whose the smart boy now little man. :roll:
My wording is a pun for those in the know, your statements are just plain FUK-ups!
I am so fuking glad I did not wait around like this and instead bought an 8800GTX at launch because for the past 7 months it has been pure gaming heaven for me and now ATI's supposed 8800GTX killer is out and we all get to see who is laughing last and the hardest :lol:
dasickninja
Splendid
- May 16, 2006
- 7,557
- 0
- 30,810
What I am finding interesting about the entirety of R600 (not just the top-end HD2900XT, but even the bottom-end HD2400, not to mention the entire middle) is that certain things are absolutely universal across the entire line (which is certainly not the case with nVidia's G8x):
1. HDCP is standard, literally, from top to bottom, as is VIVO/AVIVO. Unlike nVidia's approach with G8x (or even ATI's approach with R5xx), there is no need to worry about support for HD DVD or BD in any R600-based card; the support is there, in hardware.
2. As was the case with G8x's launch, the launch of R600 is hobbled by driver issues; however, the degree of hobbling is not as great.
3. While the 8800GTS has a lead in most benchmarks, the $64USD question has to be: will further Catalyst driver improvmements eat away at that lead, if not make it disappear altogether? However, the HD2900 series has one rather nasty advantage that the 8800GTS owner (or 8800GTX owner, for that matter) cannot wish away, no matter how much he may want to: no-quibble HDMI/HDCP support, even with dual-link DVI. If you want HDMI/HDCP support, you have to drop down to the 8600GTS; even then, if you are doing SLI or dual-link DVI, you can forget HDCP.
Of such nightmares are purchasing decisions made.
1. HDCP is standard, literally, from top to bottom, as is VIVO/AVIVO. Unlike nVidia's approach with G8x (or even ATI's approach with R5xx), there is no need to worry about support for HD DVD or BD in any R600-based card; the support is there, in hardware.
2. As was the case with G8x's launch, the launch of R600 is hobbled by driver issues; however, the degree of hobbling is not as great.
3. While the 8800GTS has a lead in most benchmarks, the $64USD question has to be: will further Catalyst driver improvmements eat away at that lead, if not make it disappear altogether? However, the HD2900 series has one rather nasty advantage that the 8800GTS owner (or 8800GTX owner, for that matter) cannot wish away, no matter how much he may want to: no-quibble HDMI/HDCP support, even with dual-link DVI. If you want HDMI/HDCP support, you have to drop down to the 8600GTS; even then, if you are doing SLI or dual-link DVI, you can forget HDCP.
Of such nightmares are purchasing decisions made.
People that have not owned a G80 since launch really need to STFU about the drivers as you don't even have a clue to what you are talking about :roll:
The 8800GTX's launch drivers presented a few bugs in some games but the performance it self was nothing short of anything but stellar, Unlike what we are seeing with ATI's bad image quality plus unusually low performance. :roll:
OMFG What see sawing performance crown? That is my point. The crown hasn't see sawed this time. As you say, normally when ATI or nvidia bring their new range it takes the crown but ATI have failed this time. This isn't a "noobish, knee-jerk sensationalism attitude" this is a fact. Nvidia are going to be racking up sales and guess where the money is going to go? R & D on their next project which will raise the bar even higher
The Stiffmeister give it up, this place is eat up with dumbass ati fanboys in complete denial.
APE, Strangestranger, Jaydeejohn, Kaeto, Cleeve.............Just to name a few.
ATi haven't finished releasing the r600...
What will you say if the 65nm utterly destroys the g80?
I am in no way a fanboy of ATi. I just hope for the r600 to destroy the g80 just in time for me to get my new build. I am running a dell 2350 upgraded with an fx 5500 PCI, so I think it is fairly safe to say that I am impartial.
Why does everyone think just because the xt has the r600 it was gunna be on par with the gtx the xt was going for the gts (and is looseing some and wining some) and the xtx was gunna go for the gtx but never got released as they are having issues with the chip and i think are gunna improve the shaders and shrink to 65nm and i here will clock at about 1Ghz (r650) this should fix the flaws in its desing, and that will be what will give the gtx and ultra a run for there money. And i think there is still power to be gaind from the xt with future driver realeses. p.s i have a 8800GTX so not a fanboy
JAYDEEJOHN
Champion
- Aug 23, 2006
- 19,840
- 0
- 50,860
OK, Ill come out and say it. What everyone is really disappointed about is that we, yes including me, are waiting for the top of the 600 series. The nVid owners who bought with their upgrade paths are now stuck, since there isnt a ATI part p[ushing the top end. The regular die hard, I dont give a %#*&$, just give me the best thing out there that doesnt cost 700 or more dollars (ala the ULTRA) , the ATI fans who just want to pound their chests saying, YASSUH, MY TEAMS THE BEST. Yes Im dissappointed,I dont see a XTX out there.Yes I hate to wait. And no Im not going to apologize for ATI for not having that challenge out there. So whoever wants to call me or certain others here fanboys, just hold up a minute. This list of names, these "fanboys" If youve read what we/they have written, youll know one thing right up front, we dont apologize, we dont do the OMZZZARB GOSHZZZZAAA. We like what makes up a good product, the finer attributes, the arch, the rops, the extras, the new approaches, and where they may lead to a new approach. I cant and wont speak for all of us/them, but Ill say this, this is what Ive gotten from reading their posts, as well as their articles. If you cant appreciate certain things, then go ahead and dumb yourself down, and be biased. Doesnt faze me. If you want to learn, share and get a glimpse of whats to come, then read and enjoy these posts/articles like I do. Some people like secong best, like owning a 1900xt. It wasnt the top part from ati, nor is the GTX. I purchased a ati 1900xt, does that make me a fanboy? No, I saw that the xt outperformed the 7900gtx at a much lower price range. Go back and read the article here on Tom's, whats the lead in? It talks about people being swayed. I call out anyone who isnt objective about their tech because OMGzooorbzzz they have it and you just dont know.... Thats NOT objectivity in action, thats favortism with a lil fanboyism thrown in. I mentioned before about driver performance, and what effect it has on cards. Most all of us know that from launch to the first 6 months, you see a good to large increase in performance. Should I be called out for that? Or should we all at least know this as being normal? Being that this is almost always the case in the history of graphics cards. Im once again waiting, this time I know I wont havre to wait as long as before. It sucks, but in the end, the waiting will be worth it, as for DX9 Im not hurting, and as for DX10, well show me a game first, then show me a game Ill have to have a DX10 card for. By then , before then, my wait will be over. Who knows which card Ill get...all I know is that I want it to be HDCP compliant, with full HD playback capability. I want it to perform like a monster in DX10. Does that too make me a fanboy? In the end, if its what I really want, then maybe so
JAYDEEJOHN
Champion
- Aug 23, 2006
- 19,840
- 0
- 50,860
the_stiffmeister
Distinguished
- Jun 5, 2006
- 142
- 0
- 18,680
erm I don't care whether you think I'm a noob, I am someone who been building PC's for years and has worked it IT for 10 years, so I don't think so. You are talking rubbish so what does that make you? ATI have brought out a new range and it isn't better in terms of performance that the range from Nvidia that has been out for 6 months. This is a failure which ever way you look at it. The point I am making is this could be the start of their demise. Perhaps not, I may be over reacting but only time will tell.
yeah there XTX is not out yet. but what do you think power consumption will go up or or down. i think it will go up if they don't shrink the chip to 65mm
nobody will buy 500 dollar drive to play HD DVD or BLue ray disc on there PC yet. when they get cheaper then yes. but buy the time we will have lot of new cards. its all about making money. companys don't come out with better cards for you and me to turn on the eye candy but to make money. which AMD needs to learn. NVIDIA and INTEL tweak there hardware launch it again and make lot of money. example. INTEL qudo core. AMD called it ducktape QUDO core. yes it is but intel is making money out of it. but the time AMD comes with native qudo core intel will come out to. so who made more money INTEL.
Same thing with NVIDIA they used 384bit memory and 90Mn die (they learned it from there 5800 experience) and there cards are selling like hot cakes (8800gts 320 MB). there is no denying that r600 has leakage problems. it consumes more power then 8800. ATI R600 looks like Nvidia 5800 loud, hot and consumes more power.i welcome any comments if i am wrong
Same thing with NVIDIA they used 384bit memory and 90Mn die (they learned it from there 5800 experience) and there cards are selling like hot cakes (8800gts 320 MB). there is no denying that r600 has leakage problems. it consumes more power then 8800. ATI R600 looks like Nvidia 5800 loud, hot and consumes more power.i welcome any comments if i am wrong
I agree but im really hopeing for the xtx version whatever it may be (r600)2900xtx or (r650)2950xtx is able to beat the 8800 cuz i really dont like having nvidia as the only preformance choise. Also i think the hd2400 & hd2600 may be able to out-preform nvidias offerings if they are released quickely. Oh and iv herd that the black box bundle with the hd2900xt has been canceled :S does anyone have any info on this??
yeah but your talking about the tweaked version of R600 to beat 8800. nvidia is gone do tit for tat. they will release 8900. and if remours prove to be true that G80 has 160 streaming processors and nvidia disabled then in 8800 series. then i hope that ATI 2900xt also has some disabled processors.
fender22
Distinguished
- Mar 16, 2007
- 319
- 0
- 18,780
All I know, is that I want healthy competition, that gives me a choice between brands and models. As for DX10.. My 7900GT will have to suffice till I see a DX10 game that I want, and I'll have to buy vista as well.. Show me DX10 software before I buy DX10 hardware..
Has anyone heard of the game Call of Juarez.. I think its coming to xbox this summer but I'm not sure. It was released in Europe some time ago for DX9, but I think they are holding off In America for DX10. Anyways, I have the DX9 version from Europe and it runs fine on my DX9 hardware 1280x1024.. So why wait and release it for DX10 when it runs fine on DX9?
I just wanna buy a card that is best price/performance for me when the time is right.. The time isn't right yet, but I still follow the market all the time to forecast what I might get.
Just wondering, I don't wanna read all these pages.. What/who is Rob and why is he being bashed so hard here?
Has anyone heard of the game Call of Juarez.. I think its coming to xbox this summer but I'm not sure. It was released in Europe some time ago for DX9, but I think they are holding off In America for DX10. Anyways, I have the DX9 version from Europe and it runs fine on my DX9 hardware 1280x1024.. So why wait and release it for DX10 when it runs fine on DX9?
I just wanna buy a card that is best price/performance for me when the time is right.. The time isn't right yet, but I still follow the market all the time to forecast what I might get.
Just wondering, I don't wanna read all these pages.. What/who is Rob and why is he being bashed so hard here?
TRENDING THREADS
-
Question upgraded to 32gb ddr4 and now it wont boot above 2133mhz - help appreciated- Started by SophieTheMeh
- Replies: 4
-
-
-
-
Question Difficulty over Nord (and other) VPN configuration
- Started by kurtepearl22
- Replies: 0
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram