Real life joystick in aircraft

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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:GcCQd.1503$kU3.753@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I've seen this a few times lately:
> http://www.eclipseaviation.com/press_photos/E500dash_md.htm
>
> Am I to assume that the left seat pilot has to fly with his left hand?
> That
> would seem unnatural for us right handed folks.
>
> Dallas
>
Yep that's how it is esp with Airbus

Bill
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

> I've seen this a few times lately:
> http://www.eclipseaviation.com/press_photos/E500dash_md.htm
>
> Am I to assume that the left seat pilot has to fly with his left hand? That
> would seem unnatural for us right handed folks.

Bah! You just know those pilots will engage the AP just after takeoff and
not disengage it until the decision altitude/missed approach point.


--
Peter













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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote :
>
> I've seen this a few times lately:
> http://www.eclipseaviation.com/press_photos/E500dash_md.htm
>
> Am I to assume that the left seat pilot has to fly with his left hand?
> That would seem unnatural for us right handed folks.
>

Not more unnatural to fly in the wrong seat referred to a car.

The sidestick has different operating modes, wich normally
is not proportional, (talking about the airbus) it puts the
plane in the maximum "g" set for the requested operation,
example :

level flight, pushed once, start descent

descending, pulled once, goes into level flight

level flight, pulled once, start climbing

climbing, push once, back to level flight.

same for left and right turns, I should check but if Im
not wrong I think that the turning rate is set at the maximum
sidestick extension reached, without need to be held.

always if I remind correctly, this goes under the name of
"normal law", they have different modes in wich only
an emergency one is proportional in case of computer
failure. in case instead of a complete failure BUT hydraulic
power, the only way left to turn wherever are the pedals,
and the rudder switch. And the next question probably
is "what if I don't have hydraulic systems ?" wich answer
is to pray, as in an airbus, I guess it would not even
come down autolevelled.

This is absurd, in my humble opinion, as it's true that
in every other plane you can still push yokes with
the help of more people, and the plane turns,
and now, please take place to see the first a380 flights :-(
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:00:54 GMT, "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com>
wrote:

>I've seen this a few times lately:
>http://www.eclipseaviation.com/press_photos/E500dash_md.htm
>
>Am I to assume that the left seat pilot has to fly with his left hand? That
>would seem unnatural for us right handed folks.
>
>Dallas
>

Its no differrent to flying with a standard yoke.

Left hand on the yoke while the other operates the throttles and nav/radio
equipment etc.

I have flown RW from both seats and have no dificulty in changing hands although
you have to think quickly in emergencies when flying twins with two each of
throttles, props and mixtures.


Norman Bates
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Nobby Bates" <Nobend@dslexic.com> wrote :
>
> Its no differrent to flying with a standard yoke.
>
> Left hand on the yoke while the other operates the throttles and nav/radio
> equipment etc.
>
> I have flown RW from both seats and have no dificulty in changing hands
> although
> you have to think quickly in emergencies when flying twins with two each
> of
> throttles, props and mixtures.
>
>

Sorry is the side stick of those small aircraft proportional and
servo assisted ? it is not like you operate with the same force
on a standard yoke ?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"J.F. Sebastian" <rintin@tin.it> wrote:

> Sorry is the side stick of those small aircraft proportional and
> servo assisted ? it is not like you operate with the same force
> on a standard yoke ?

I have sat in a Cirrus cockpit and to me, the side stick feels as if it
requires the same forces as any standard, small GA aircraft such as a
Cessna 182. To my knowledge there are no servos to assist in overcoming
the forces required to move the flight controls (with the AP off, of
course).

--
Peter













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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:GcCQd.1503$kU3.753@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I've seen this a few times lately:
> http://www.eclipseaviation.com/press_photos/E500dash_md.htm
>
> Am I to assume that the left seat pilot has to fly with his left hand?
> That
> would seem unnatural for us right handed folks.
>
> Dallas
>
>
At first glance yes, but after a few minutes you would find out that it's no
big deal. Happened to me as a left-hander when I had to do some right-seat
qualification flights as an instructor.
Even on common "yoke" commanded A/C it's the very same. Copilot: right hand
at yoke, left hand at throttle, Captain: left hand at yoke, right hand at
throttle.
And then there are some nice small A/C with the good old stick......
Piper Cub/Super Cub: Left hand at throttle, right hand at stick
Dornier Do27/28: left hand at stick, right hand at throttle
Pilatus Porter PC6: left hand at stick, right hand at throttle
TBC forever..... ;-)
Remember: flying is fun!!!
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"J.F. Sebastian" <rintin@tin.it> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:37ght6F5d0lclU1@individual.net...
> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote :
> And the next question probably
> is "what if I don't have hydraulic systems ?" wich answer
> is to pray, as in an airbus, I guess it would not even
> come down autolevelled.
>
> This is absurd, in my humble opinion, as it's true that
> in every other plane you can still push yokes with
> the help of more people, and the plane turns,
> and now, please take place to see the first a380 flights :-(
Are you really sure? Do you really think in a B777 there are still cables to
all flight controls? Really?? ;-)
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote :
>> And the next question probably
>> is "what if I don't have hydraulic systems ?" wich answer
>> is to pray, as in an airbus, I guess it would not even
>> come down autolevelled.
>>
>> This is absurd, in my humble opinion, as it's true that
>> in every other plane you can still push yokes with
>> the help of more people, and the plane turns,
>> and now, please take place to see the first a380 flights :-(
> Are you really sure? Do you really think in a B777 there are still cables
> to all flight controls? Really?? ;-)

I don't have a direct knowledge as you probably may have,
I just heard it still works, altough I can't remember exactly
where I wrote that I think that it still works trough wires.

Maybe a different hydraulic system ?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

pr <nope@nospam.com> wrote:
> Dallas <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:
>
> > I've seen this a few times lately:
> > http://www.eclipseaviation.com/press_photos/E500dash_md.htm
> >
> > Am I to assume that the left seat pilot has to fly with his left hand?
> > That would seem unnatural for us right handed folks.
>
> Bah! You just know those pilots will engage the AP just after takeoff
> and not disengage it until the decision altitude/missed approach point.

In the C172, even though it has a yoke, I was trained to fly with only my
left hand on the yoke, as I would think all pilots are. The right hand is
used to control the radios, throttle, mixture etc. This would be a natural
fit and would not feel strange. In fact the opposite would be true. If
the control were on the right, it would be very odd to transition to this
plane.

--
Mike Flyin'8
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

<Flyin'8@here.com> wrote:

> In the C172, even though it has a yoke, I was trained to fly with only my
> left hand on the yoke, as I would think all pilots are. The right hand is
> used to control the radios, throttle, mixture etc. This would be a natural
> fit and would not feel strange. In fact the opposite would be true. If
> the control were on the right, it would be very odd to transition to this
> plane.

Unless you are left handed, as I am, and need to copy down an amended IFR
clearance in the air. Ambidexterity is really the key.

--
Peter













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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"pr" <nope@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1mmsdzmi54t69$.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> <Flyin'8@here.com> wrote:
>
>> In the C172, even though it has a yoke, I was trained to fly with only my
>> left hand on the yoke, as I would think all pilots are. The right hand
>> is
>> used to control the radios, throttle, mixture etc. This would be a
>> natural
>> fit and would not feel strange. In fact the opposite would be true. If
>> the control were on the right, it would be very odd to transition to this
>> plane.
>
> Unless you are left handed, as I am, and need to copy down an amended IFR
> clearance in the air. Ambidexterity is really the key.
>
> --
> Peter

Same here Peter, I am also left handed. But right hand, left hand, made no
difference. You just get used it pretty quick. In stick aircraft (L-19,
Helicopters) the "stick" was in the right hand, collective/throttle, etc in
the left. In the right seat of a yoke aircraft (L-20, T-41) right hand for
yoke, left for throttle And in a helicopter, flying the left seat, you
really had to be ambidextrous, since the console with the radios was on your
right. Left knee pressure to hold collective in place, switch to left hand
on the cyclic, right hand tuned radios, etc. Then reverse the process back
to normal. 🙂)

Never really had a problem with any of it.

Paul
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:GcCQd.1503$kU3.753@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I've seen this a few times lately:
> http://www.eclipseaviation.com/press_photos/E500dash_md.htm
>
> Am I to assume that the left seat pilot has to fly with his left hand?
> That
> would seem unnatural for us right handed folks.
>
> Dallas

There are even airplanes like the Luscombe that have a centered stick on
each side with the throttle in the middle. I can tell you that THIS took
some getting used to!! 🙂
The controller concept in high performance airplanes is nothing new.
We use a side stick controller in the F16 which is of course for the
right hand. This setup you have shown here would not be as difficult as
it might appear for the pilot's left hand. It takes a flight or two to
get the hang of it, but you would be surprised how quickly pilots adjust
to these things.
I remember the first time I taxied out in a Mk 16 Spitfire. I thought
the brakes on the damn airplane were the craziest setup I had ever seen:
invented by insane people in a dark room with no windows, not to mention
the knuckled spade grip on the stick. By the time I had done the runup,
I loved the brakes because I didn't have to push the pedals and hold the
airplane, and by the time I landed after a short flight, the Spade and I
were friends for life! 🙂
Dudley
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:00:54 GMT, "Dallas"
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>Am I to assume that the left seat pilot has to fly with his left hand? That
>would seem unnatural for us right handed folks.

Hi Dallas

My joystick is of the ergonomic type; ergonomic for right handed
folks, that is. So, in FS, I use my "wrong" (ie, right) hand. I should
also add that my right arm is partly paralysed following my head
injury several years ago. I find it easy enough.

I'm sure that real life pilots are quite able to use one or the other
and switch between them willy nilly.

James
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"pr" <nope@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1mmsdzmi54t69$.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> <Flyin'8@here.com> wrote:
>
> > In the C172, even though it has a yoke, I was trained to fly with only
my
> > left hand on the yoke, as I would think all pilots are. The right hand
is
> > used to control the radios, throttle, mixture etc. This would be a
natural
> > fit and would not feel strange. In fact the opposite would be true. If
> > the control were on the right, it would be very odd to transition to
this
> > plane.
>
> Unless you are left handed, as I am, and need to copy down an amended IFR
> clearance in the air. Ambidexterity is really the key.
>

You just swap hands on the yoke and write with your left hand, you don't
need to be ambidextrous at writing. If it's just a "clear direct Z"
amendment there's hardly anything to write down. If it's a much
longer-winded amendment the controller will always ask you if you're ready
to copy anyway. If you're in a phase of flight that needs three hands,
never mind two, then you just reply "standby" until such time as you're
sorted. You'll probably say "standby" anyway (left *or* right handed)
whilst you reach for your pen/crayon/burnt stick.

Steve
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Steve <steve@deletemefirst.zord.co.uk> wrote:

> You just swap hands on the yoke

That was my point. I was responding to the poster who commented that all
pilots were taught to use left hand for yoke, right hand for everything
else.

--
Peter













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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I hate sticks, I use one but I loved flying a Cessna (birthday present) with
a yoke, nice and easy nice to feel. But that's me, and I am 1337 😀 lol

--
www.deadlyhosting.com - Great Game, Voice and Web Hosting.
www.deadlyhosting.com/special.php for a great special.
I apologise now for any spelling mistakes or bad grammar
--
"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:GcCQd.1503$kU3.753@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I've seen this a few times lately:
> http://www.eclipseaviation.com/press_photos/E500dash_md.htm
>
> Am I to assume that the left seat pilot has to fly with his left hand?
> That
> would seem unnatural for us right handed folks.
>
> Dallas
>
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Hi Chris,

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:16:52 GMT, you wrote:

> I hate sticks, I use one but I loved flying a Cessna (birthday
> present) with a yoke, nice and easy nice to feel.

I've never flown a real plane, stick or yoke, but I do have both a
joystick and a yoke (and rudder/brake pedals) with the sim, and so I
mix and match them depending on which plane I'm flying.

I enjoy using the yoke when it's appropriate for the plane, but I must
say that I'm beginning to really love the stick controlled planes
(Super Decathlon, SF.260, Piper Cub, etc.), because I find something
more "organic" about flying with a stick as opposed to a yoke.
Conceptually speaking, the smooth transitional movements possible
with a stick seem more naturally "3D" to me as opposed to the way a
yoke is manipulated in the physical sense, and since planes move in a
fully three dimensional space, the stick makes perfect sense to me.

I suppose someday, when I acquire a simulated plane that's equipped
with a left hand stick, I'll have to get yet another joystick
(perhaps one designed to work with either hand?), as my current
joystick is only meant to be controlled with the right hand.

- --
Melissa

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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:59:22 +0100, Oskar Wagner wrote:

> At first glance yes, but after a few minutes you would find out that it's no
> big deal. Happened to me as a left-hander when I had to do some right-seat
> qualification flights as an instructor.

I tried it a while back, flying an Airbus lefthanded with a regular
Sidewinder joystick, and I couldn't keep her stable.
Especially banking was weird.
Because I was holding a stick I tended to get that fighterpilot feeling.

Ofcourse the overal "feel" of a real Airbus stick must be way different
than a regular pc joystick, right? Not as "loose"?

--

Marcel
(...flying through an asteroid field ain't like dusting crops, boy!)
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"pr"
> Unless you are left handed, as I am, and need to copy down an amended IFR
> clearance in the air.

With a yoke you can switch hands. Additionally, the yoke is centered to the
body... something that is easier for the brain process when you switch.

Lefties are likely better at ambidexterity because they live in a right
handed world and are forced to practice with the wrong hand more often.

I wonder about the right handed Airbus copilot as PIC when he needs to write
down an amended IFR clearance while hand flying the aircraft.

Dallas
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Marcel Kuijper"
> I tried it a while back, flying an Airbus lefthanded with a regular
> Sidewinder joystick

Yeah, I'm going to plug in the joystick and try to land a jet with my left
hand... I hope all the passengers have their life insurance paid up. 🙂


Dallas
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Marcel Kuijper" <zoepetier_nothing_here@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:13rrppclk41sv.1ip4etk7u0h7r$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:59:22 +0100, Oskar Wagner wrote:
>
> Ofcourse the overal "feel" of a real Airbus stick must be way different
> than a regular pc joystick, right? Not as "loose"?
>
> --
>
> Marcel
> (...flying through an asteroid field ain't like dusting crops, boy!)

Definitely!! ;-) Exquisite damping (hydraulic) and centering with absolutely
NO excessice play around null position and ... and .....
Well it's a piece of mechanical artwork but definitely not as cheap as a
joystick... ;-)
BTW we were not allowed (for obvious reasons) to call it "joystick" as it
might have irritated our female flight crew members (no joke....). The
official wording was "sidestick"......
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:SJNQd.1909$IU.1221@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I wonder about the right handed Airbus copilot as PIC when he needs to
> write
> down an amended IFR clearance while hand flying the aircraft.
>
> Dallas

Well, that's exactly what he will NEVER (N-E-V-E-R) do!!!!! Whoever is PF
(Pilot Flying) will not deal with anything else than operating the A/C
(manually or by autopilot). Paperwork is generally the task of the PNF.
That's - among other things - one of the basics in a well organized 2-man
cockpit. (Speaking of major carriers with clearly defined Operation
Manuals.....)
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
 
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