Request for comments - Tremere Trophy Hunters

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Preston wrote:
> If you do say so yourself. Actually, you are the only person who has
> complain to this date that my posts are hard to understand.

Then let me jump in and say that replies that do not contain quotes are
hard to understand.

> You do so
> in a rather bizarre fashion. In one thread that contained all of 4
> posts total you jumped in and criticized me for not citing relevant
> text when it was pretty clear I was referring to the poster right above
> mine whom I addressed by name.

I have a fine newsreader. However, I have it set to only show unread
posts. That's how I like it. So if someone posts today, and I read it,
and you reply tomorrow, then I do not see the post you're replying to.
Unless I'm really, really, really interested, I will not bother to look
up the post you're replying to.

End result: I don't read a lot of what you write. Whether or not you
care is up to you.

--Colin McGuigan

 

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Very well Peter. I hear and obey. Congratulations again on your finish
at Origins.

Peter D Bakija wrote:
> Preston wrote:
>
> > Actually, you are the only person who has
> > complain to this date that my posts are hard to understand.
>
> Not to be inflamatory, but I too have found your particular posting style to
> be hard to follow (as you have a tendancy to not quote relevant text)--on
> google groups, the whole thread tends to stick around, so if you just throw
> up a response, readers can usually see what you are responding to, but in
> most newsreaders (most folks who use usenet use newsreaders, not google
> groups. Or at least I'd like to think so), only new messages show up, so
> unless you are deliberately saving threads as context, what your (i.e.
> Preston's) posts often look like are contextless responses to posts that
> aren't available anymore. I was gonna post something as hlepful advice, but
> then other people started, so I decided to stay out of the whole thing
>
> So yeah, regardless of other points being brought up, it is always a good
> idea to quote relevant text in your responses--the post that you are
> responding to aren't always available for context (sometimes they have been
> read and vanished; sometimes they are lost in the ether and your response
> shows up before the original post you are responding to shows up; sometimes
> people archive search for something, and find a post without context). And
> even if they are available for context, if I have to go back to a previous
> post to see what you are talking about, I probably won't, and will just move
> on.
>
> Quoting relevant text is simply a good idea that makes your discussion
> *much* easier to follow, and consequently, much more productive.
>
>
> Peter D Bakija
> pdb6@lightlink.com
> http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6
>
> "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
> easily spilled liquids to naked people."
> -Brittni Meil

 

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Preston wrote:

> Actually, you are the only person who has
> complain to this date that my posts are hard to understand.

Not to be inflamatory, but I too have found your particular posting style to
be hard to follow (as you have a tendancy to not quote relevant text)--on
google groups, the whole thread tends to stick around, so if you just throw
up a response, readers can usually see what you are responding to, but in
most newsreaders (most folks who use usenet use newsreaders, not google
groups. Or at least I'd like to think so), only new messages show up, so
unless you are deliberately saving threads as context, what your (i.e.
Preston's) posts often look like are contextless responses to posts that
aren't available anymore. I was gonna post something as hlepful advice, but
then other people started, so I decided to stay out of the whole thing

So yeah, regardless of other points being brought up, it is always a good
idea to quote relevant text in your responses--the post that you are
responding to aren't always available for context (sometimes they have been
read and vanished; sometimes they are lost in the ether and your response
shows up before the original post you are responding to shows up; sometimes
people archive search for something, and find a post without context). And
even if they are available for context, if I have to go back to a previous
post to see what you are talking about, I probably won't, and will just move
on.

Quoting relevant text is simply a good idea that makes your discussion
*much* easier to follow, and consequently, much more productive.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 08:55:19 +0100, James Coupe <james@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:

> Note also that, because of the vagueness of post propagation on Usenet,
> it is quite, quite possible for people to receive some of the replies to
> a post but not the original post - or to have it delayed by some
> minutes, hours, days. This is significantly less common than in days of
> yore, but it still happens. This is not a web-forum with a centralized
> database.

Very true. Quoting relevant text is not just a pointless custom to bitch
to n00bz about. And while it is generally considered to be polite, the
real reason for doing it is quite mundane. It enhances the clarity of
your posts by providing the context, allows infrequent readers to join
an ongoing discussion, and - last but definitely not least - helps to
reduce the detrimental effects lost or belated posts can have on the
comprehensibility of a discussion.

--
Bye,

Daneel

 

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On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:32:46 -0500, Colin McGuigan
<maguaSPAM@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote:

>Preston wrote:
>> If you do say so yourself. Actually, you are the only person who has
>> complain to this date that my posts are hard to understand.
>
>Then let me jump in and say that replies that do not contain quotes are
>hard to understand.
>--Colin McGuigan

And let me jump in and agree. And let me add one more thing: one
should never assume that lack of response means full acceptance,
specially on the internet.

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/

 

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Preston wrote:

> Very well Peter. I hear and obey. Congratulations again on your finish
> at Origins.

Thanks again. And yeah, it is always a good idea to quote relevant text--I
put it in the FAQ, ya know


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil

 

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In message <BEEEE402.20625%pdb6@lightlink.com>, Peter D Bakija
<pdb6@lightlink.com> writes:
>(most folks who use usenet use newsreaders, not google
>groups. Or at least I'd like to think so)

One estimate a few months back put Google Groups at somewhere in the
region of 10%:

<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/demon.service/msg/96f2c3ed5d06f15e?
hl=en>

Richard's stats regarding Usenet are usually in the right ballpark,
though clearly levels will vary up and down on a daily basis.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

 

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In message <1120493394.719673.291840@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Preston <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com> writes:
>Hmmm. Let me see if I get this.

Okay.

>You are saying that I should include
>relevant text so people will understand what I'm saying.

Yes.

>So... you mean
>you probably shouldn't have started criticizing my BWP: Malkavian deck
>in the middle of a thread on Tremere Trophy decks without any relevant
>text.

No. The point was raised as it was relevant to the point Derek had made
in the posted e-mail exchange, regarding the success of stealth-bleed
decks and the longevity of such decks.

If I had posted it in the Barbed Wire thread, it would not have been in
the right place for the comment that was being made - regarding overall
longevity of stealth-bleed, in the context of the Tournament Winning
Deck Archive.

Usenet does not (and has never, AFAIK) allowed "multiple inheritance" -
having more than one parent article. You can attempt such things with
bizarre hacks to the References: header, but they don't work.

In either place, the point being made would have relevance in the other
place.


>> This is because you are selfish, self-serving and ignorant.
>
>If you do say so yourself. Actually, you are the only person who has
>complain to this date that my posts are hard to understand.

No, I'm not.

Quoting from the e-mail exchange that Derek posted:

"It would be appreciated if you would bother to quote things
you're responding to. It helps maintain the thread of
discussion, and keeps everyone involved clear as to exactly
what's being said at any given point in time."


It is little wonder that you have trouble dealing with Usenet if you
ignore what people write.

Note that quoting what people write and snipping down to the relevant
portions forces you to quickly re-read what was written in the first
place. This avoid many such problems.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

 

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"Preston" <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120437442.882586.220040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> James,
>
> I am replying to your post without a single quotation. This scandalous
> and supercilious use of the news reader is truly unconscionable, By all
> means report me to the internet police at once. Clearly, I am not to be
> trusted. My VEKN number must be revoked at once and I need to be
> reported to the department of homeland security. Obviously, my days on
> the MtG Pro Tour have left me so amazingly arrogant that I now
> didactically dictating deck designs of dubious distinction to my fellow
> denizens.
>
> ACK! Run for the hills.

Dude,
You're retarded.

--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp

 

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On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, Preston wrote:

> Lasombra:
>
> Yea, that's what I was saying. Mua Aziz means never having to say
> you're sorry- for diablierie anyway.

If only that were true. Almost every time I've tried playing my Basilia
Trophy deck, there's been a Carlton Van Wyk at the table. You MUST
include anti-Carlton tech! The best solution is to have a way to put him
on the Red List and kill him. Sadly, he's got a pretty good answer to
Burst of Sunlight.

For me, Carlton has been a real stumbling block. My initial plan in the
Basilia deck was to agg for 1, then Amaranth to get lots of blood. In
order to fight Carlton effecitvely, I put in a few Murders of Crows,
Depravity and Ritual Challenge. Now poor Basilia hits vampires so hard
they don't have much blood left to gobble up. Guess I could add Tastes,
but that's just more deck space. Anyway, I have other ideas, so I may
abandon the Basilia deck.

For this Tremere Trophy deck, I'd recommend a few Telepathic Trackings.
It's still annoying because you'll either need to play two of them or
Burst at superior to get rid of Carlton. Still, it must be done due to
his "burn self to burn a diablerist" ability.

Matt Morgan

 

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On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Morgan Vening wrote:

> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 12:38:09 -0500, "Matthew T. Morgan"
> <farquar@io.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, Preston wrote:
>>
>>> Lasombra:
>>>
>>> Yea, that's what I was saying. Mua Aziz means never having to say
>>> you're sorry- for diablierie anyway.
>>
>> If only that were true. Almost every time I've tried playing my Basilia
>> Trophy deck, there's been a Carlton Van Wyk at the table. You MUST
>> include anti-Carlton tech! The best solution is to have a way to put him
>> on the Red List and kill him. Sadly, he's got a pretty good answer to
>> Burst of Sunlight.
>
> The problem with Carlton, is you aren't always capable of stopping
> him. His special (unless I'm interpreting the rules incorrectly) can
> be used the turn he comes out. So if you can't block the recruiting
> minion, Mu goes poof.

There's also the cornercase Songs of the Distant Vitae, Sixth Tradition:
Destruction and maybe one or two other cards that don't see much play.
Yeah, the risk of Carlton popping out and exploding your main guy probably
warrents the inclusion of a DI or two. In fact, my latest Trophy effort
includes DI for just such occasions.

However, I think the larger risk is that your opponent gets out Carlton
before you can really get moving (no Trophy: Domain yet). If your deck is
effective and you munch all his vampires, then there's not too much risk
anymore. Still, maybe the best solution is just to include a copy to
contest. I hear he's good for other reasons too.

Matt Morgan

 

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Preston wrote:
> Hey Derek,
>
> First off, I made a thread for you to post our exchange. Actually, we
> have been talking about what a ass you are over at Ash Heap.

I'm curious about something. Is the below link the only thread in which
the Ash Heap folks have been talking about what an ass Derek is?

http://tinyurl.com/b5nhk

I'm just wondering if I missed another thread on the Ash Heap forums,
because out of 13 replies in the above thread (at the time this is
posted) to your initial post, you had one response from a poster who
had not read any of the threads here, or any of the emails which have
since been posted to the newsgroup, and who didn't know who Derek is.
The only other on-topic response was "Sorry, Derek Ray is an ass, but
he amuses the hell out of me."

 

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> >include anti-Carlton tech! The best solution is to have a way to put him
> >on the Red List and kill him. Sadly, he's got a pretty good answer to
> >Burst of Sunlight.
>
> The problem with Carlton, is you aren't always capable of stopping
> him. His special (unless I'm interpreting the rules incorrectly) can
> be used the turn he comes out. So if you can't block the recruiting
> minion, Mu goes poof.
>

Contest him. Carlton can be used to block rescue actions, so in the event
you win the contest, you can put him to work.

 

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On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 12:38:09 -0500, "Matthew T. Morgan"
<farquar@io.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, Preston wrote:
>
>> Lasombra:
>>
>> Yea, that's what I was saying. Mua Aziz means never having to say
>> you're sorry- for diablierie anyway.
>
>If only that were true. Almost every time I've tried playing my Basilia
>Trophy deck, there's been a Carlton Van Wyk at the table. You MUST
>include anti-Carlton tech! The best solution is to have a way to put him
>on the Red List and kill him. Sadly, he's got a pretty good answer to
>Burst of Sunlight.

The problem with Carlton, is you aren't always capable of stopping
him. His special (unless I'm interpreting the rules incorrectly) can
be used the turn he comes out. So if you can't block the recruiting
minion, Mu goes poof.

Morgan Vening

 

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Howdy,

> > I'm curious about something. Is the below link the only thread in which
> > the Ash Heap folks have been talking about what an ass Derek is?
>
> I'm also curious how these never-before-seen nicks keep poppin' up when
> someone wants to say something like this. This is not the first time...

A quick Google Groups search (Heh - sometimes it _is_ useful to be
reading via Google!) reveals that invisibleking == John Eno, who was
also formerly known as 'kushiel'. I suspect that ISP changes likely
are responsible for the name change, as that's usually what does it for
me. In any case, there are five other threads since late May featuring
invisibleking's handle - I knew I had seen it previously...

> > The only other on-topic response was "Sorry, Derek Ray is an ass, but
> > he amuses the hell out of me."
>
> Which covers it fairly well, I think.

Life on the Usenet is a constant balance between ass and amusement,
yes. Actually, I'm not sure that description doesn't cover Life in
general...

Hope that helps,
Alex

 

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On 5 Jul 2005 23:04:13 -0700, <invisiblekingdom@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm curious about something. Is the below link the only thread in which
> the Ash Heap folks have been talking about what an ass Derek is?

I'm also curious how these never-before-seen nicks keep poppin' up when
someone wants to say something like this. This is not the first time...

> The only other on-topic response was "Sorry, Derek Ray is an ass, but
> he amuses the hell out of me."

Which covers it fairly well, I think.

--
Bye,

Daneel

 

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Daneel wrote:
> On 5 Jul 2005 23:04:13 -0700, <invisiblekingdom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm curious about something. Is the below link the only thread in which
>> the Ash Heap folks have been talking about what an ass Derek is?
>
> I'm also curious how these never-before-seen nicks keep poppin' up when
> someone wants to say something like this. This is not the first time...

As always, Daneel, I don't need to hide behind sock puppets to defend
myself. Last time a 'never before seen' nick came out, you said the
same thing and it turned out it was a real person after all... I imagine
this will end up just like before.

It makes me wonder how dishonest a person you must naturally be to be
automatically assuming such things, though.

- --
Derek

insert clever quotation here
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On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 23:21:04 -0400, Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
<etherial@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote:

>> >include anti-Carlton tech! The best solution is to have a way to put
>> him
>> >on the Red List and kill him. Sadly, he's got a pretty good answer to
>> >Burst of Sunlight.
>>
>> The problem with Carlton, is you aren't always capable of stopping
>> him. His special (unless I'm interpreting the rules incorrectly) can
>> be used the turn he comes out. So if you can't block the recruiting
>> minion, Mu goes poof.
>
> Contest him. Carlton can be used to block rescue actions, so in the event
> you win the contest, you can put him to work.

The problem, I think, is that you may actually see more copies of
Restructure, Lure of the Serpent, Far Mastery, Entrancement, The
Ercyes Fragments or similar cards than Carlton himself. This is
heavily metagame-dependent, but if you do, you might be punching
yourself in the nuts by playing him as a defence against himself.

--
Bye,

Daneel

 

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Daneel wrote:
> On 5 Jul 2005 23:04:13 -0700, <invisiblekingdom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm curious about something. Is the below link the only thread in which
> > the Ash Heap folks have been talking about what an ass Derek is?
>
> I'm also curious how these never-before-seen nicks keep poppin' up when
> someone wants to say something like this. This is not the first time...

Sorry. My name's John Eno, and I used to occasionally post here as
Kushiel. There was a snafu involving my fiance's Google account and
mine revolving around staying logged in and a shared computer, so I
changed it to the current one.

John Eno

 

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wumpus wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> > > I'm curious about something. Is the below link the only thread in which
> > > the Ash Heap folks have been talking about what an ass Derek is?
> >
> > I'm also curious how these never-before-seen nicks keep poppin' up when
> > someone wants to say something like this. This is not the first time...
>
> A quick Google Groups search (Heh - sometimes it _is_ useful to be
> reading via Google!) reveals that invisibleking == John Eno, who was
> also formerly known as 'kushiel'. I suspect that ISP changes likely
> are responsible for the name change, as that's usually what does it for
> me. In any case, there are five other threads since late May featuring
> invisibleking's handle - I knew I had seen it previously...

Thanks for the confirmation, Alex.

John Eno

 

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On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 08:06:44 -0400, Derek Ray <lorimer@yahoo.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Daneel wrote:
>> On 5 Jul 2005 23:04:13 -0700, <invisiblekingdom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm curious about something. Is the below link the only thread in which
>>> the Ash Heap folks have been talking about what an ass Derek is?
>>
>> I'm also curious how these never-before-seen nicks keep poppin' up when
>> someone wants to say something like this. This is not the first time...
>
> As always, Daneel, I don't need to hide behind sock puppets to defend
> myself. Last time a 'never before seen' nick came out, you said the
> same thing and it turned out it was a real person after all... I imagine
> this will end up just like before.

You know what they say - "if the cap fits"...

> It makes me wonder how dishonest a person you must naturally be to be
> automatically assuming such things, though.

Maybe it has less to do with my honesty, and more to do with yours...

--
Bye,

Daneel

 

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Preston wrote:
> Hey Derek,
>
> First off, I made a thread for you to post our exchange. Actually, we
> have been talking about what a ass you are over at Ash Heap.

So, now that we've hopefully cleared up that Derek Ray's hand is not,
in fact, up my ass, I'd still like to know if the thread which I linked
below is the only one in which people are supposedly talking about what
an ass Derek is. Preston?

http://tinyurl.com/b5nhk

 

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Daneel wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 08:06:44 -0400, Derek Ray <lorimer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> As always, Daneel, I don't need to hide behind sock puppets to defend
>> myself. Last time a 'never before seen' nick came out, you said the
>> same thing and it turned out it was a real person after all... I imagine
>> this will end up just like before.
>
> You know what they say - "if the cap fits"...

Yes. I think the cap of "naturally dishonest person" fits you just
fine. Perhaps you'll own up to it someday,... perhaps you're even
fooling yourself. =)

I also think the cap of "obsessed with Derek" fits you pretty well, too.
Do you REALLY think I'd waste time creating sock-puppet accounts for
that sort of thing? If you do, you probably should have your tinfoil
hat checked... I think the radiation is getting through.

- --
Derek

insert clever quotation here
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In message <opstht65fqo6j3lh@news.chello.hu>, Daneel <daniel@eposta.hu>
writes:
>On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 08:06:44 -0400, Derek Ray <lorimer@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>> It makes me wonder how dishonest a person you must naturally be to be
>> automatically assuming such things, though.
>
>Maybe it has less to do with my honesty, and more to do with yours...

Could you provide some concrete examples of Derek's dishonesty?

Derek may be many things, not less infuriating and abrasive[0], but I
have never seen him be dis-honest. I, for one, would welcome some
evidence of such if there is any.


[0] These are not criticisms.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

 

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In message <opsthui2hgo6j3lh@news.chello.hu>, Daneel <daniel@eposta.hu>
writes:
> But other people may consider that he is working on building a player
> base (not lazy) and giving away decks for free to do this (not selfish).

For free?

No he isn't, he's putting them up on Ebay: <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayI
SAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5215606696>

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.