Rumor: Next Windows to Keep Modern UI, Live Tiles

[NewbieTechGodII]

There are literally tens of thousands of free Apps, some a duplicates but since when is this different to all the useful freeware for desktop? You also get to use all the desktop freeware too
...
If the new UI is still too freaky, get Windows 8 anyway and Start 8 and take advantage of all the real performance improvements until either a Service Pack or some other freeware makes it the perfect mix
...
A lot of people love XP Pro SP3 and i'm one of them, but XP at launch was crap, didn't stop me getting it and having fun tinkering with it along the way and a lot of people in here seem to forget the fun of tinkering

BlackViper.

You know, I spent more time tinkering with the damned OS back in those days that I hardly got around to actually using it! Now that RAM is cheaper than air and Windows has better memory management, I don't even worry about it anymore.

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

The only reason Linux dominates the mobile market is because it is not sold as Linux. It has been taken under the wing of Google to be made into something (relatively) easy to use, and in a closed ecosystem where drivers are a non-issue.
Linux as Linux will never take off. If someone were to make a consumer package similar to what has been done in the enterprise markets with Red Hat and other distros, then Linux could take off. But until someone takes Linux under it's wing and markets it as something else, then it will never take off. People simply want a product, not a project. The hope of Linux was that the general public would actuially learn to use their computers on a more fundamental level rather than just using them on a consumer level. Sadly, that will never happen. The general public wants to use computers, not manage them. Even most power users use Windows for their main machines simply because it is what software runs on, and what drivers work with. I enjoy using Linux for things that it is good for, and where up-time is of paramount importance... but it does not make for a good end-user machine.
Not saying that it cannot, but simply that it does not.

As I've said before...Linux is FREE and it still has jacksh1t for marketshare (in the home user segment).

I admit that I don't follow Linux at all, but you know what?- I don't feel like spending time typing at the command prompt just to have the OS recognize a damn DVD drive! I don't know if that's been improved on or not, but it's still retarded to have to do so here in 2013.

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]NewbieTechGodII[/nom]As I've said before...Linux is FREE and it still has jacksh1t for marketshare (in the home user segment).I admit that I don't follow Linux at all, but you know what?- I don't feel like spending time typing at the command prompt just to have the OS recognize a damn DVD drive! I don't know if that's been improved on or not, but it's still retarded to have to do so here in 2013.[/citation]
+1000

An OS is a means to an end, sure tinkering to make it personal is one thing, but basic functionality should be automatic and the end is to be able to run your programs. As long as people still need to run legacy programs they have paid hundreds, thousands or (in the case of big business) millions for it will never take off

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

+1000

An OS is a means to an end, sure tinkering to make it personal is one thing, but basic functionality should be automatic and the end is to be able to run your programs. As long as people still need to run legacy programs they have paid hundreds, thousands or (in the case of big business) millions for it will never take off

That's why there are still so many XP systems out there (and 98)- businesses have way too many PCs and updating the OS would cost them an arm and a leg.

For example, during my college days, I interned at a very large bank in the marketing department (I was actually applying for the IT position, but they dropped the need for help there, so), and though XP had been around for years, they were still running 98 and Office 98! Now it was OK since they were only doing basic stuff with their PCs, but now they are 4 generations behind (assuming they haven't upgraded).

Seriously people (business)- spend the money and get with the times. You're the reason why MS and other OSs makers have to waste so much time trying to support legacy software. Personally, I am glad that they (MS) is cutting-off support and new features to that dinosaur that is XP.

 

[matt_b]

I guess that if Microsoft went back to making the next version of Windows look more familiar ( or, like it should), then it would be like admitting fault with the disaster that is/was Windows 8 interface.

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

I guess that if Microsoft went back to making the next version of Windows look more familiar ( or, like it should), then it would be like admitting fault with the disaster that is/was Windows 8 interface.

And if you would pull your head out of your a55, you would see this is where they are going. Grow up.

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

Here's the app UltaMeca was talking about. I don't know if this is an updated version from what he has, but I thought I'd post it here so that others could get a good looksee.

http://www.intowindows.com/create-desktop-shortcut-for-any-app/

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

And here's a simple app for all of those bitchy little bitch whiners that will restore their 'precious' Start menu:

http://www.intowindows.com/start-menu-for-windows-8/

 

[robochump]

Why MS is forcing live tiles UI is beyond me. Simply make it an option (on/off) or hybrid with desktop being primary.

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

Why MS is forcing live tiles UI is beyond me. Simply make it an option (on/off) or hybrid with desktop being primary.

Because they love to hear people bitch.

 

[faster23rd]

I don't know what's worse, the fact that the Windows thinks that resizing those live tiles of theirs, or that they're set up with an annual release cycle. Shouldn't it be basic that live tiles be customizable to greater degree than it is now? Why add such a diminutive feature on another OS later? And don't me get started on that annual release model...

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]faster23rd[/nom]I don't know what's worse, the fact that the Windows thinks that resizing those live tiles of theirs, or that they're set up with an annual release cycle. Shouldn't it be basic that live tiles be customizable to greater degree than it is now? Why add such a diminutive feature on another OS later? And don't me get started on that annual release model...[/citation]

The annual releases are needed to keep up in the Phone and Tablet sector, and since the PC uses the same OS, they will be doing it for all. Perhaps it is not needed, but they are following the trend that Android and iOS has started.

The good news is that the updates will come in smaller doses, so people don't freak out about large changes.

 

[matt_b]

[citation][nom]NewbieTechGodII[/nom]And if you would pull your head out of your a55, you would see this is where they are going. Grow up.[/citation]
So you speak for everyone considering just how much opposition is going in to avoiding the reinvention of Windows with version 8? Automatically I along with many others are supposed to like every change that gets thrown my way? Progress can be good AND bad, change introduced just to have change doesn't automatically mean that's progress in the right direction. Windows 8 as is, is a fine tablet and phone OS; it's the way it looks, it's the way it behaves, and that's exactly the market segment it's clearly targeted for. I'm not sure what got you so fired up for in such a hasty way, just accept the fact that I along millions of others will be hanging on to Windows 7 as it's clearly the new XP. You have you opinion, I respect it, but don't lose your own head when someone (or many in this case) has a different viewpoint.

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

So you speak for everyone considering just how much opposition is going in to avoiding the reinvention of Windows with version 8? Automatically I along with many others are supposed to like every change that gets thrown my way? Progress can be good AND bad, change introduced just to have change doesn't automatically mean that's progress in the right direction. Windows 8 as is, is a fine tablet and phone OS; it's the way it looks, it's the way it behaves, and that's exactly the market segment it's clearly targeted for. I'm not sure what got you so fired up for in such a hasty way, just accept the fact that I along millions of others will be hanging on to Windows 7 as it's clearly the new XP. You have you opinion, I respect it, but don't lose your own head when someone (or many in this case) has a different viewpoint.

because the bitching you and others are doing is without merit. no one has given one reason why they need to spend more than 2 or 3 seconds looking at that 'dreadful' Metro Start Screen...NO ONE.

people in here are claiming to be 'power-users' and IT gods and yet they simply cannot figure out that one can use Win8 ALL DAY WITHOUT SEEING THE METRO START SCREEN OTHER THAN TO INITIALLY LOG-IN. hell, I have even posted links in here on how to restore that stupid old-fashioned and outdated Win7 and prior Start Menu, and yet still got thumbed-down which just goes to show the idiocy on the opposition side.

XP is old, clumsy, and outdated. Vista is OK now that SP1 has been released. Win7 is very good and Win8 is more of a refinement but without the compatibility issues people had from XP to Vista/Win7.

lastly, I've heard all of this bitching before...with every single Windows release! people were bitching about using a mouse, then the GUI instead of a command prompt. people bitched about losing DOS, and then the 'fake DOS' MS supposedly used. (FTR- the NT kernel has never ever used DOS. not a single time from its beginning, and here's a link for some reading, although I don't think it would matter a bit since it seems many people in here lack reading comprehension skills).

So, you don't like Win8? fine...don't use it. but don't also spend your time wasting away in internet forums beating a dead horse and making complaints that are, in essence, invalid. stick with whatever OS floats your boat; just don't bitch when MS cuts-off support.

 

[davewolfgang]

Blah, blah, blah

What's got your panties in a wad?

And no - there was no where NEAR the complaints in previous version of Windows as there is now. (And here's news you clearly keep ignoring - all of us Alpha and Beta testers TOLD Microsoft this YEARS ago - so it's not like they didn't know.)

What don't you get about Personal Choice being a legitimate and CORRECT decision to like or dislike something - and if my Personal Choice doesn't like something, I'm not going to spend $$$$ on it.

And if XP is so "clumsy and outdated" why are multiple INTERNATIONAL companies with 100,000's of employee - STILL USING IT just fine????? Hmmmmm???? (And when they get a new computer - they put XP on it???)

And you must have a nice easy cushy job if you can go all day with just staying on one desktop. Those of us that are REAL IT pros don't have the luxury of sitting in one place all day every day. What you don't seem to understand (and clearly aren't listening to anyone else) is that simple EASY tasks that took 3-5 clicks in 7 - take 8-12 clicks in 8 (And that's after having to "hover" the mouse over something here or there) - to do the same thing. Please tell us where that's "better"? And when you do it 20-30 times a day - that's called (in the REAL business world) - WASTING TIME.

You like Windows 8 - we get - but quit telling everyone else that we must be "idiots" IF we happen to not like it, especially when we've giving you very good reasons that we don't.

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

What's got your panties in a wad?

And no - there was no where NEAR the complaints in previous version of Windows as there is now. (And here's news you clearly keep ignoring - all of us Alpha and Beta testers TOLD Microsoft this YEARS ago - so it's not like they didn't know.)

What don't you get about Personal Choice being a legitimate and CORRECT decision to like or dislike something - and if my Personal Choice doesn't like something, I'm not going to spend $$$$ on it.

And if XP is so "clumsy and outdated" why are multiple INTERNATIONAL companies with 100,000's of employee - STILL USING IT just fine????? Hmmmmm???? (And when they get a new computer - they put XP on it???)

And you must have a nice easy cushy job if you can go all day with just staying on one desktop. Those of us that are REAL IT pros don't have the luxury of sitting in one place all day every day. What you don't seem to understand (and clearly aren't listening to anyone else) is that simple EASY tasks that took 3-5 clicks in 7 - take 8-12 clicks in 8 (And that's after having to "hover" the mouse over something here or there) - to do the same thing. Please tell us where that's "better"? And when you do it 20-30 times a day - that's called (in the REAL business world) - WASTING TIME.

You like Windows 8 - we get - but quit telling everyone else that we must be "idiots" IF we happen to not like it, especially when we've giving you very good reasons that we don't.

you are an idiot if you don't understand the economics of a business, especially a very large one. let's use your retarded comment about why do businesses still use xp? DUH...when you're talking hundreds if not thousands of OS licenses PLUS the needed hardware upgrades, it becomes a massively expensive endeavor. and guess what? businesses don't like spending money on *** they don't have to.

and you are totally and completely wrong when you say that Win8 is the most hated-on OS. you obviously were oblivious to the criticisms every version of windows MS has ever released. as I mentioned in another post, both the GUI AND MOUSE were blasted by critics like you, and I wish I still had the link that will demonstrate what I am talking about.

someone doesn't like Win8? fine. but the constant BITCHING BY BITCHES is really getting out of hand. I keep hearing how the new OS puts such a burden on tech gods like yourself that you can't get a damned thing done. I keep asking what does Win8 do that causes you such grief and yet NO ONE CAN ANSWER THE EFFING QUESTION! all everyone wants to moan about is the damned Start screen but they seem to forget that there are many apps out there, for FREE, i may add, that will bring your precious Start Menu back! holy sheep shi1t, people! this is worse than who's better- Kirk or Picard!

i don't think Win8 is PERFECT and i am certainly not in love with it. i use it. i like it. it WORKS. i LIKE that MS is FINALLY getting a consistent feel throughout their product lineup. they have a way to go, but they will get there.

XP had HUGE issues when it came out because so many programs designed for 98 and before simply wouldn't work. sp2 was thrashed because the security model MS implemented 'broke' apps (but generally only the piss-poorly coded ones). we don't even have to talk about Vista, but most of its issues came with hardware makers not taking seriously the need to rework their drivers, and also because people were trying to run it on machines not capable of doing so. Win7 benefitted from Vista in that it was the same kernel and it didn't need a hardware update. Win8 cleans-up patches of the Win7 OS that were legacy-looking from XP and begins to take a journey in a new direction.

so...if you don't like it, fine. go to Linux, or OSxxx, or stick with xp/7. frankly, i don't give a ****, just next time you pound away on your keyboard, best bring some FACTS with you.

 

[davewolfgang]

you are an idiot if you don't understand the economics of a business, especially a very large one. let's use your retarded comment about why do businesses still use xp? DUH...when you're talking hundreds if not thousands of OS licenses PLUS the needed hardware upgrades, it becomes a massively expensive endeavor. and guess what? businesses don't like spending money on *** they don't have to.

(Blah, Blah, Blah)

so...if you don't like it, fine. go to Linux, or OSxxx, or stick with xp/7. frankly, i don't give a ****, just next time you pound away on your keyboard, best bring some FACTS with you.

I don't have to because you just did!

If MS really wanted to make a profit - don't you think they would've take your advice right there in that paragraph (like WE told them to in Alpha an Beta testing), so BUSINESSES would have reason to spend $$$$$$$? But yet those same business that are still on XP have Office 2010 - BECAUSE they did those upgrades and changes right - even with the ribbon, which most people DO realize is better. But after 4 months, people (who have figured out the Ribbon changes) STILL can't figure out 8.

Way to defeat all your own arguments. :lol:


And I'm sorry - but because a LOT of people don't like it (----------> NO MATTER THE REASON <-----------) that means we aren't bringing facts? We are bringing more facts than you are - but yet you keep claiming your opinion IS fact, but nobody else's opinion is...???

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

I don't have to because you just did!

If MS really wanted to make a profit - don't you think they would've take your advice right there in that paragraph (like WE told them to in Alpha an Beta testing), so BUSINESSES would have reason to spend $$$$$$$? But yet those same business that are still on XP have Office 2010 - BECAUSE they did those upgrades and changes right - even with the ribbon, which most people DO realize is better. But after 4 months, people (who have figured out the Ribbon changes) STILL can't figure out 8.

Way to defeat all your own arguments. :lol:


And I'm sorry - but because a LOT of people don't like it (----------> NO MATTER THE REASON <-----------) that means we aren't bringing facts? We are bringing more facts than you are - but yet you keep claiming your opinion IS fact, but nobody else's opinion is...???

Office products do not require massive horsepower to run, moron. Office is NOT an OS in case you didn't realize. "Hey look- I'm running xp but I can still play MP3s! why switch to Win8?" duh.

you've given nothing but opinion. tell me what process used to take three to five keystrokes that now takes eight to 20? hmmmm?

I have repeatedly stated that a person can run Win8 and never see the 'dreaded' Start screen, other than when logging-in, and even that can be by-passed if one installs one of the many Start Menu apps that gives the user this ability.

I am not saying Win8 > Win7, but the reverse isn't true, either.

deal with it or get a new job. or maybe some real skillz.

 

[matt_b]

@NewbieTechGodII
I get what you're saying, if people don't like something, they should refrain from opening their mouths or typing it out on a keyboard on a forum or somewhere on the internet. Has someone ever given you a choice in life and you picked the newer option just because it was newer but you didn't like it? Windows 7 has an EOL date of 1/14/2020 - that's SEVEN years left!!! XP still hasn't reached it's EOL point in time. There's a good amount of life left in it so we shouldn't have to worry about Microsoft "leaving us behind" any time soon. I never slammed W8 as a whole, I'm saying it's a good OS for the tablet and phone market - but it clearly leaves the desktop market behind (so we still have W7 to thank to pick up that slack). Here's what it boils down to, you like Windows 8, and you are championing it right here on the same forum and manner that I along with others are disliking it - that's called difference of opinion and a right to do so. Just because you like something, speak your mind on the topic, and then complain about others complaining and call those that don't see it your way, idiots, that's hipocracy bud.

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

@NewbieTechGodII
I get what you're saying, if people don't like something, they should refrain from opening their mouths or typing it out on a keyboard on a forum or somewhere on the internet. Has someone ever given you a choice in life and you picked the newer option just because it was newer but you didn't like it? Windows 7 has an EOL date of 1/14/2020 - that's SEVEN years left!!! XP still hasn't reached it's EOL point in time. There's a good amount of life left in it so we shouldn't have to worry about Microsoft "leaving us behind" any time soon. I never slammed W8 as a whole, I'm saying it's a good OS for the tablet and phone market - but it clearly leaves the desktop market behind (so we still have W7 to thank to pick up that slack). Here's what it boils down to, you like Windows 8, and you are championing it right here on the same forum and manner that I along with others are disliking it - that's called difference of opinion and a right to do so. Just because you like something, speak your mind on the topic, and then complain about others complaining and call those that don't see it your way, idiots, that's hipocracy bud.

the ONLY reason xp is still being supported is because businesses and others are just to cheap to update their systems...mostly because of the cost involved. their is no legitimate reason to EoL 7 because there is nothing wrong with it.

There is also nothing 'wrong' with Win8 either. people are just bitching to bitch. in four pages of this topic have I yet to see one single legitimate reason to hate this OS this much. it runs perfectly in the desktop and if you want to use the Metro-side of things, you can do so. sure, some of the default apps are piss-poorly implemented, but many people won't be using the default apps anyhow.

and I am not 'championing' anything other than for idiots to start using logic and reason when throwing up a bitch on here. I've thrown down the gauntlet several times asking just what does Win8 do that makes your life so difficult and NO ONE has been able to respond!

so, nope, there isn't any 'hypocrisy' (which IS how to spell it, BTW), on my part, bud.

seriously, if no one can just justify their rage over Win8 with FACT, then they shouldn't bother posting at all. as a matter of fact, this thread just be closed. enough people have already given the same, beating-a-dead-horse reason to hate on 8, so do we really need to know your $.02 worth?

 

[davewolfgang]

Wow...you clearly haven't even READ anyone complaints about 8 - because every single one of them was VALID!!!

And they were FACTUAL.

You have a perfect right to your own opinions - but you don't have a right to your "own" facts (which ARE just your opinions) - AND to claim everyone else who doesn't agree with yours is "invalid" and "idiotic".

If someone doesn't like a feature - that's a VALID reason.

If someone doesn't like that they took Areo away - that's a VALID reason.

If someone doesn't like Metro (and I'm ALWAYS going to call it that) - that's a VALID reason.

If someone doesn't like that 8 doesn't do what I want it to do because MS decided the user shouldn't have that ability (even though they could from 95 all the way to 7) - that's a VALID reason.

Just because "YOU" don't think they are valid - doesn't mean diddly squat.

With every single replay you make, you are convincing more and more that you ARE a "fanbio" and back on page 2 I'd say you were probably getting paid to push 8. And you will reply to this post just like the other and convince even more.

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

Wow...you clearly haven't even READ anyone complaints about 8 - because every single one of them was VALID!!!

And they were FACTUAL.

You have a perfect right to your own opinions - but you don't have a right to your "own" facts (which ARE just your opinions) - AND to claim everyone else who doesn't agree with yours is "invalid" and "idiotic".

If someone doesn't like a feature - that's a VALID reason.

If someone doesn't like that they took Areo away - that's a VALID reason.

If someone doesn't like Metro (and I'm ALWAYS going to call it that) - that's a VALID reason.

If someone doesn't like that 8 doesn't do what I want it to do because MS decided the user shouldn't have that ability (even though they could from 95 all the way to 7) - that's a VALID reason.

Just because "YOU" don't think they are valid - doesn't mean diddly squat.

With every single replay you make, you are convincing more and more that you ARE a "fanbio" and back on page 2 I'd say you were probably getting paid to push 8. And you will reply to this post just like the other and convince even more.

wrong again on all points, douchebag. and what is 'fanbio'? is that a new MMO?

you seem to be confusing what is 'fact' and what is 'opinion'...let me help you out:

FACT: I don't like Win8 because none of my apps are compatible and it's constantly crashing.
OPINION: I don't like Win8 because it doesn't have the Start Menu.

you see there? one of those statements is OBJECTIVE, while the other is SUBJECTIVE. now I know those are very big words for you to understand, so go look them up, or do you need mommy to help you?

if Win8 was a smoldering dung heap that constantly crashed, wouldn't play games, and wouldn't run apps built for Win7, then those would be OBJECTIVE and VALID. BUT, saying YOU don't like Win8 because of the lack of Aero (or something similar), while being valid for you and for others, IS STILL AN OPINION AND NOTHING MORE.

it's fine to state one's OPINION, but it SHOULD NEVER BE CONFUSED WITH FACT. the items you listed above are OPINION no matter how much you think otherwise. as for some of the things you mentioned, there are already third party apps that one can install that resolves so many of those negative OPINIONS, so instead of bashing Win8, why not 1) try those apps and see what it does for you, or 2) WRITE YOUR OWN FRIGGIN' OS THAT'S PERFECTLY-CODED, 100% SECURE, TOTALLY CUSTOMIZABLE, AND 100% COMPATIBLE WITH EVERY SINGLE OS EVER MADE. SHOW US HOW EASY IT IS. SHOW US YOUR SKILLZ.

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

Why MS is forcing live tiles UI is beyond me. Simply make it an option (on/off) or hybrid with desktop being primary.

I meant to reply to this a lot earlier, but you CAN turn-off Live Tiles in the Metro Start Screen. Just right-click on a Live Tile and at the bottom of the screen, you should see the option to do so. please note that you can only select one tile at a time to turn-off (which is pretty dumb, in my OPINION), but there it is.

 

[davewolfgang]

wrong again on all points, douchebag. and what is 'fanbio'? is that a new MMO?

you seem to be confusing what is 'fact' and what is 'opinion'...let me help you out:

FACT: I don't like Win8 because none of my apps are compatible and it's constantly crashing.
OPINION: I don't like Win8 because it doesn't have the Start Menu.

you see there? one of those statements is OBJECTIVE, while the other is SUBJECTIVE. now I know those are very big words for you to understand, so go look them up, or do you need mommy to help you?

if Win8 was a smoldering dung heap that constantly crashed, wouldn't play games, and wouldn't run apps built for Win7, then those would be OBJECTIVE and VALID. BUT, saying YOU don't like Win8 because of the lack of Aero (or something similar), while being valid for you and for others, IS STILL AN OPINION AND NOTHING MORE.

it's fine to state one's OPINION, but it SHOULD NEVER BE CONFUSED WITH FACT. the items you listed above are OPINION no matter how much you think otherwise. as for some of the things you mentioned, there are already third party apps that one can install that resolves so many of those negative OPINIONS, so instead of bashing Win8, why not 1) try those apps and see what it does for you, or 2) WRITE YOUR OWN FRIGGIN' OS THAT'S PERFECTLY-CODED, 100% SECURE, TOTALLY CUSTOMIZABLE, AND 100% COMPATIBLE WITH EVERY SINGLE OS EVER MADE. SHOW US HOW EASY IT IS. SHOW US YOUR SKILLZ.

I've BEEN using Win 8 for over two years - and it's still a waste of time. When working on Desktops is your job - wasted time = wasted money. And Win 8 WASTES time.

And when you say there are "3rd party apps" for this or that - you do know you are defeating YOUR OWN ARGUMENT.

Win 7 - don't need a 3rd party app to do something.

Win 8 - need a 3rd party app to do something I didn't need it for in Win 7.

LOOOOOOSE.

AND - please tell me the difference in Win 8 not running apps and getting returned for a refund vs. User can't do what he wants because MS changed everything and returns it for a refund. (Or is MS still counting those sales even after they have to give a refund?) The end user still ISN'T CHOOSING Win8 over Win7 or XP. "Objective" or "Subjective" BOTH equal loss of money and LOSS of respect/stature for anything MS does in the future. In any business book in the world, that mean failure.

Nerdrage much??

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

I've BEEN using Win 8 for over two years - and it's still a waste of time. When working on Desktops is your job - wasted time = wasted money. And Win 8 WASTES time.

And when you say there are "3rd party apps" for this or that - you do know you are defeating YOUR OWN ARGUMENT.

Win 7 - don't need a 3rd party app to do something.

Win 8 - need a 3rd party app to do something I didn't need it for in Win 7.

LOOOOOOSE.

AND - please tell me the difference in Win 8 not running apps and getting returned for a refund vs. User can't do what he wants because MS changed everything and returns it for a refund. (Or is MS still counting those sales even after they have to give a refund?) The end user still ISN'T CHOOSING Win8 over Win7 or XP. "Objective" or "Subjective" BOTH equal loss of money and LOSS of respect/stature for anything MS does in the future. In any business book in the world, that mean failure.

Nerdrage much??

all I can say is that you must really suck at your job. unless your job is to suck, then you must be great at it. perhaps flipping burgers at McDonald's would better suit you?

so, you're saying third party apps are worthless? I guess you're counting firefox, chrome, and all of the other browsers to be worthless? how about compression utilities? where do you draw the line at what's worthless and what isn't? 3rd party apps exist to fill needs others may have but lack the programming knowledge to make it happen. that doesn't mean that Win8 "sucks because it doesn't have the Start Menu anymore." if you want that back, people have recreated it...go use one of them!

and no, you haven't been using Win8 for 2 years...at best, you've been running it for like 3 months...those other things you were using were betas/previews/etc. BIG difference.

still, if you've been using it for 2 years and you still can't figure it out, perhaps you should refer to my point earlier in this post.

again, you (and others), can't tell me EXACTLY what it is that 1) 'MS changed all around that makes work impossible', and 2) what you can't do now that you used to be able to? please tell us which apps that ran on Win7 now no longer work on Win8?

I mentioned that there was a very long blog post that described all of the criticism's leveled at each and every Windows OS release since Day 1. while I have yet to locate it, I did find these two articles...enjoy.

http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-next-hate-is-nothing-new

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-is-the-new-xp-7000006095/


EDIT: Thanks to Ed Blott over at ZDNet.com for helping me out on locating that blog I've referred to several times...he has come through in fine fashion and has sent me the link. ladies and germs, I present to you the following for your reading entertainment:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/18/creating-the-windows-8-user-experience.aspx