[SOLVED] Ryzen 5 3600xt or wait for ryzen 5000

Shadowex99

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So, I'm planning to upgrade my GTX 1070 to the RTX 3070 hopefully when it launches and am wondering which option would suit me best. I'm mainly looking to game at 1080p 144hz ultra and the GTX 1070 hasn't seemed to be pulling its weight in games warranting an upgrade, however, my main concern is what I'll be upgrading my cpu to.

I'll be upgrading from the Ryzen 5 1600 @ 3825 mhz on the b350 platform.

Should I go for Ryzen 5 3600xt (assuming it drops) or 3600 (assuming it doesn't)

or wait until 2021/22 and go for Ryzen 5 5000 when that releases (AM5?)

Making the assumption that because AMD's AM4 platform is only really getting support until when Ryzen 4000 drops that AM5 will be released for the 5000 series, having to upgrade to two new platforms is counterproductive in the longevity of things.

I totally would think about going for the 4000 series CPU's but having to upgrade to a newer motherboard is an excess cost that I've sort of ruled out of the question for now.

What are your takes on this? I know that it's a bit subjective because it's more of a question of do you need all of that performance immediately or not but to be frank, I'm just trying to think about whether the jump from 1600 to 3600xt is worth doing if it's just used as a step towards when DDR5 and Ryzen 6000 comes out!

Lastly, the bottleneck between the 1600 and the RTX 3070 is hopefully going to be more insubstantial with graphics quality turned all the way up so I'm not toooo worried about the gap between when the RTX 3070 comes out and when the 5000 series releases but is it worth waiting for?
 

Darkbreeze

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If you have a Ryzen 5 1600 right now, and are planning to upgrade your graphics card to some variant of Ampere, whether RTX 3070 or another model, it would be a VERY good idea to upgrade your CPU now. Your current CPU is extremely slower than current Ryzen 3000 series CPUs when it comes to single core strength and IPC. I would not wait. Waiting is always a fools game under the best of circumstances and considering that the Ryzen 4000 series isn't even likely to see fruition on desktop SKUs until at least December, and most probably longer than that, waiting on the 5000 series is going to likely be a years long venture. Most likely, not until late 2021 or 2022, and that's if all goes well.

I don't think you can wait that long and to be honest, even now your Ryzen 1600 is likely a serious bottleneck for that GTX 1070 in any game that is not fully GPU bound. Your frame rates are generally not directly tied to purely GPU performance. It is usually far more a factor of the CPU even in mostly GPU bound games, once you start shooting for very high frame rates. Especially if lowering the graphical quality settings in game doesn't increase your frame rates substantially. Then you know for SURE that your CPU is holding you back.

What motherboard do you have right now?
 

Darkbreeze

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If you have a Ryzen 5 1600 right now, and are planning to upgrade your graphics card to some variant of Ampere, whether RTX 3070 or another model, it would be a VERY good idea to upgrade your CPU now. Your current CPU is extremely slower than current Ryzen 3000 series CPUs when it comes to single core strength and IPC. I would not wait. Waiting is always a fools game under the best of circumstances and considering that the Ryzen 4000 series isn't even likely to see fruition on desktop SKUs until at least December, and most probably longer than that, waiting on the 5000 series is going to likely be a years long venture. Most likely, not until late 2021 or 2022, and that's if all goes well.

I don't think you can wait that long and to be honest, even now your Ryzen 1600 is likely a serious bottleneck for that GTX 1070 in any game that is not fully GPU bound. Your frame rates are generally not directly tied to purely GPU performance. It is usually far more a factor of the CPU even in mostly GPU bound games, once you start shooting for very high frame rates. Especially if lowering the graphical quality settings in game doesn't increase your frame rates substantially. Then you know for SURE that your CPU is holding you back.

What motherboard do you have right now?
 

Darkbreeze

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I hear this every generation, and every generation, it never drops to those ridiculously low prices that people seem to think they are going to drop to. Right now AMD has a glut of CPUs, and they are not selling them at a rate that equals the supply BECAUSE people have been waiting for B550 to release, PLUS, most of the affordable motherboards in the B450 family have remained largely sold out for the last few weeks. Once B550 boards become widely available the supply of Ryzen 3000 series CPUs is going to drop and prices are going to go back UP, not down. The price right now at 167.00 for a Ryzen 5 3600 is probably about as low as you are likely to see it go anytime in the next 12-15 months.
 

Shadowex99

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If you have a Ryzen 5 1600 right now, and are planning to upgrade your graphics card to some variant of Ampere, whether RTX 3070 or another model, it would be a VERY good idea to upgrade your CPU now. Your current CPU is extremely slower than current Ryzen 3000 series CPUs when it comes to single core strength and IPC. I would not wait. Waiting is always a fools game under the best of circumstances and considering that the Ryzen 4000 series isn't even likely to see fruition on desktop SKUs until at least December, and most probably longer than that, waiting on the 5000 series is going to likely be a years-long venture. Most likely, not until late 2021 or 2022, and that's if all goes well.

I don't think you can wait that long and to be honest, even now your Ryzen 1600 is likely a serious bottleneck for that GTX 1070 in any game that is not fully GPU bound. Your frame rates are generally not directly tied to purely GPU performance. It is usually far more a factor of the CPU even in mostly GPU bound games, once you start shooting for very high frame rates. Especially if lowering the graphical quality settings in-game doesn't increase your frame rates substantially. Then you know for SURE that your CPU is holding you back.

What motherboard do you have right now?
I have the Asus Rog Strix B350-F Gaming. I haven't yet encountered a game (even on low) that really stresses my CPU past say 60% (with lots of stuff open with it) on my GTX 1070 despite both being overclocked although I can update that statement after I've really looked into it. EDIT: tried and true however I this is with all settings on low even. I expect the bottleneck to be a little closer to even when the settings are cranked up no?

I play a solid mix of graphically demanding eye candy type singleplayer games as well as competitive games and they're in every case bottlenecked by my GPU.

I do think that that it's overexaggerated that my Ryzen 5 1600 isn't keeping up even in cpu bound games because not once have I seen my CPU even hit past ~65% (tried and true) on any given game though I expect it to reach 100% when I get the 3070.

I would wait for the price to drop a bit more on the R5 3600 to around $140 or less in probably 4-5 months before buying it. Then upgrade to Ryzen 5000 if you actually need it in the future.
I do think that this a great idea while the RTX 3070 hasn't even released yet. Never even considered the fact that the prices would drop significantly by the time RTX 3070 and Ryzen 4k drops.

Appreciate both responses nonetheless
 
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The price right now at 167.00 for a Ryzen 5 3600 is probably about as low as you are likely to see it go anytime in the next 12-15 months.
I mean... if the price doesn't drop in 4-5 months, it makes sense to just buy it and hope the prices doesn't drop a few days latter. It at least gives the buyer time to see reviews on B550 motherboards before making a decision.
 

Shadowex99

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Additionally, looking at Ryzen 5 3600 comparisons with the 2080 ti, I see what are marginal differences :/ ~<20 fps differences. Is it truly worth getting even if the price halves its current market value?
 
one could argue that you don't need a 3070 to game at 1080p 144hz in the first place
True, but it will also last longer if the person using it doesn't upgrade it for 4+ years and still plays at 1080p or 1440p.
Anyone remember what happened to GTX 10 series when 20 series dropped? I 'member!
THEY WENT UP

[Link saved at 2:00, ends at 6:45]
View: https://youtu.be/M5V18enaj50?t=120
If that bit is accurate, B550 pricing is going to suck for the next few months.
Those prices are close to what I've been seeing on B450 motherboards the last 2 weeks. This is just yet another reason to wait for reviews and for bugs to be worked out in bios updates before buying.
 

Shadowex99

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True, but it will also last longer if the person using it doesn't upgrade it for 4+ years and still plays at 1080p or 1440p.

Those prices are close to what I've been seeing on B450 motherboards the last 2 weeks. This is just yet another reason to wait for reviews and for bugs to be worked out in bios updates before buying.
According to GamersNexus the inflated motherboard pricing and stocks are due to the current pandemic situation no? Hopefully in the coming months all the pricing will go back down.
 

M3rKn

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According to GamersNexus the inflated motherboard pricing and stocks are due to the current pandemic situation no? Hopefully in the coming months all the pricing will go back down.
yeah the prices always go down, but by that point you might be asking yourself if you are going to hold out for the next release
 

M3rKn

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Ryzen pricing will drop for sure when 4000 series is released & Black Friday will bring discounts as well, I just wouldn't count on Nvidia dropping prices
 

Shadowex99

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Looking at the rumored RTX 3070 specs which are comparable to the RTX 2080 Super, assuming the prices goes down on Ryzen 5 3600 or the ryzen 5 3600xt matisse refresh drops, I'll likely be getting those after selling off my Ryzen 5 1600 to cut a little bit of money back. They don't bottleneck the 2080 super at all in the benchmarked games at 1080p I watched so that's an A+ for me. I don't think I could handle waiting for Ryzen 5000 and will probably wait for 6000 to drop in the future when new cards and more significant technology than PCIE 4.0 drop with it. Really appreciate all the insight of things that I overlooked all! Don't think I'm ready to give up this platform just yet.
 

Karadjgne

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I do think that that it's overexaggerated that my Ryzen 5 1600 isn't keeping up even in cpu bound games because not once have I seen my CPU even hit past ~65% (tried and true) on any given game though I expect it to reach 100% when I get the 3070.
Don't mistake usage for ability. The cpu pre-renders a frame at 100% ability, every time. Usage is the amount of resources the cpu needs to use to render that frame. Your fps limit is limited to the amount of frames the cpu can render in 1 second. Increasing usage does not mean the cpu can render a frame faster, it simply means the cpu has to use more to render the same frame. The frame time is a result of the clock speeds, IPC and complexity of the frame. If the cpu can pre-render 100 frames using 20%, changing that to 60% will still get you 100 frames. It's only when hitting right about 100% usage that fps drops because the cpu cannot pre-render data if it's not there, being held up by lack of threads, lack of bandwidth etc.

I expect usage not to be 100%, because the gpu has nothing to do with how the cpu pre-renders a frame. Gpu is resolution, detail levels, post processing etc. Cpu is game code, and it's the same code for 4k as 480p, low or ultra. You'd only see cpu usage rise if you add stuff to the frame, like name tags, signs, player/npc symbols, damage data etc, which adds to the complexity of a frame, especially when in multi-player and the additional AI.
 
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Shadowex99

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Don't mistake usage for ability. The cpu pre-renders a frame at 100% ability, every time. Usage is the amount of resources the cpu needs to use to render that frame. Your fps limit is limited to the amount of frames the cpu can render in 1 second. Increasing usage does not mean the cpu can render a frame faster, it simply means the cpu has to use more to render the same frame. The frame time is a result of the clock speeds, IPC and complexity of the frame. If the cpu can pre-render 100 frames using 20%, changing that to 60% will still get you 100 frames. It's only when hitting right about 100% usage that fps drops because the cpu cannot pre-render data if it's not there, being held up by lack of threads, lack of bandwidth etc.

I expect usage not to be 100%, because the gpu has nothing to do with how the cpu pre-renders a frame. Gpu is resolution, detail levels, post processing etc. Cpu is game code, and it's the same code for 4k as 480p, low or ultra. You'd only see cpu usage rise if you add stuff to the frame, like name tags, signs, player/npc symbols, damage data etc, which adds to the complexity of a frame, especially when in multi-player and the additional AI.
Having said that, why is it that ryzen 3600 vs 1600 have ~20 fps difference despite in the benchmarks the GPU is seen running at 100% whereas the only differences are that the 1600 is running at ~65% and the 3600 is runing at 50%. If the 1600 isn't producing the expected frametimes shouldn't the usage go up in efforts to produce similar performance? Where does the gap in performance really come from.
 

Darkbreeze

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Having said that, why is it that ryzen 3600 vs 1600 have ~20 fps difference despite in the benchmarks the GPU is seen running at 100% whereas the only differences are that the 1600 is running at ~65% and the 3600 is runing at 50%. If the 1600 isn't producing the expected frametimes shouldn't the usage go up in efforts to produce similar performance? Where does the gap in performance really come from.
Out of curiosity, where are you getting this "20fps difference" from? Where are you getting these numbers from and are you SURE that the numbers you are seeing are using otherwise identical hardware? Because a lot of comparisons are simply BS. There is no way you'd see only a 20FPS difference if you were looking at anything where the CPU was limiting the FPS to begin with. And even if that were true, 20FPS faster while increasing the settings with a new graphics card, makes for a much more enjoyable result.

If you can raise quality settings AND increase FPS by 20 or more, that's not terrible in any scenario.

What it's worth, and here we're assuming that data is correct which I really doubt although depending on the particular game and the conditions at the time, it might be, would be completely up to you. I see people, every day, spent hundreds of dollars only to gain a few FPS or add a splash of color. Guess it depends on the individual as to what any upgrade is worth.
 

Shadowex99

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Out of curiosity, where are you getting this "20fps difference" from? Where are you getting these numbers from and are you SURE that the numbers you are seeing are using otherwise identical hardware? Because a lot of comparisons are simply BS. There is no way you'd see only a 20FPS difference if you were looking at anything where the CPU was limiting the FPS to begin with. And even if that were true, 20FPS faster while increasing the settings with a new graphics card, makes for a much more enjoyable result.

If you can raise quality settings AND increase FPS by 20 or more, that's not terrible in any scenario.

What it's worth, and here we're assuming that data is correct which I really doubt although depending on the particular game and the conditions at the time, it might be, would be completely up to you. I see people, every day, spent hundreds of dollars only to gain a few FPS or add a splash of color. Guess it depends on the individual as to what any upgrade is worth.
If you search up any 3600 vs 1600 benchmarks comparison video with a card that bottlenecks both cpu's, for whatever reason the 3600 still prevails with a seemingly random boost that I don't understand in some games?
 

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