Ryzen Versus Core i7 In 11 Popular Games

[AndrewJacksonZA]

Man now i feel kinda oblivious of the gaming scene:
Never heard of Planet Coaster.
And i had to google poe. I though it was the writer...

Err, same here... :-|

 

[mitch074]

I guess this article is meant to be the defense for the current "Best Gaming CPUs for the Money". You can't argue with it for anyone building a system whose primary purpose is gaming. No excuses, the fact remains that Ryzen 8C/16T didn't cause a disruption in recommended gaming CPUs that benefit gaming consumers. So, now we just have to wait to answer the question of how will the 4C/8T Ryzen change the recommendations and how far up the performance ladder will it compete?

Actually, there might be some improvements with the R3 with it being restricted to a single CCU - so no thread jumping. Lower-end models will do without SMP too, so a R3 1200X (supposed to be around $150) should overclock to 4 GHz rather easily, provide 4 cores/4 threads and basically go toe to toe out of the box with a i5 7500 (a $190 part) and once o/c'ed go after the 7600K (a $240 part). As it would be pretty much equivalent to my o/c'ed Haswell 4670K I won't be getting one any time soon, but if I had to build a new gaming machine in the next 6 month that's the part I'd get.

 

[COLGeek]

Interesting read here: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3180525/components-processors/amd-busts-ryzen-performance-myths-clearing-windows-10-and-others-from-blame.html

BTW, many of the mods have built or are building Ryzen rigs (including me). This is for those who insist we are a bunch of shills for "insert company here".

 

[Thelatestnewbgamer]

once games start being optimized for 8 cores, ryzen will then shine..the 3ghz ryzen 1700 is already tied in gaming performance with broadwell-e...even best's i7 7700k too..the ryzen 1700 is clocked 1200mhz slower than the i7 7700k too..i'm an early adopter of the ryzen 1700x i know the performance is going get better in future windows updates and bios updates to run ryzen's ram @ 4000mhz and game developers like bethesda have already said ryzen has a big performance improvement when utilising the 8 cores..i can find the article if needed..if it was upto intel..8 cores would never become mainstream..i'm glad amd is back in the game..i will be sure to buy ryzen+ too..even if intel will be on its 6th generation 14mm by then

 

[blppt]

"Please, you guys... again... cmon. Where are the 4k benches? You are still not representing a real world scenario. These chips are going to be used at 1440p - 2160p. Nobody in their right minds care about 1080p for a 500$ CPU, and that goes for a 1150$ CPU as well."

Disagree. There are at least some of us out there who prefer to stick with 1080p for various reasons. I run 2 1080s in SLI at 1080p, and there are some games that still dont reach great framerates at high detail levels, even at that resolution. I have no desire to bump up the res with a new monitor and lose even more frames. Plus, my TVs are 1080p, which makes using an HDMI splitter much easier by standardizing the res across all output devices.

 

[blppt]

"once games start being optimized for 8 cores"

Well, thats the same issue we had back when Bulldozer launched. Thankfully the single-core/thread performance is much, much more competitive this time out.

 

[elbert]

People forgot that 6900k is not even being overclocked in this test and when you buy that CPU you set that thing to run at 4.2Ghz with no sweat (everyone does it). Despite having lower clock speed than Ryzen out of box, it still kicks its ass in gaming. That tells me enough. Now, you cannot really set Ryzen to run at 4.2Ghz not without enormous amount of voltage, lot of heat and bad ass cooling and even then there is a big If. x1800 is not even that cheap...$500 so when you add all up to me it does suck.

Maybe, i would have different opinion if AMD was a bit honest. I did pointed out at crippled Intel setup AMD did in their testing i got so many dislikes about. Now, there you go....

Actually no one has forget as it tacks on about $100 for high end air to water cooling. There are 4.2Ghz water kits for Ryzen also.
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/3xs-ryzen-7-overclocked-bundle-amd-1800x-asus-x370-pro-16gb-corsair-ddr4-corsair-h100i

 

[redgarl]

Look at what I found... funny indeed... many other sites are reporting the same behaviors...

 

[LORD_ORION]

I'd rather see standard configuration tests, none of this disable HPET business.

The special configurations could then be run in a separate article.
1) Standard config
2) Logical cores disabled
3) Hpet disabled
4) Hpet and logical cores disabled

If there were any significant differences that would be nice to know.

 

[PaulAlcorn]

"Theories abound as to why Ryzen processors are struggling in gaming metrics"

I big one I don't see you mention is there is a bug with the Windows 10 thread scheduler and it does not correctly identify physical cores from "virtual" ones with Ryzen's SMT implentation. Nor does it correctly identify how much L1 and L2 cache it can utilize. AMD and MS are actively working on a fix, but until then I don't see the point of releasing more benchmarks. Windows 7 does not have this bug, so testing on that platform would be a far better measure of the chip's actual performance. (I don't have a dog in this fight, but I hate to see an unfair comparison regardless of the outcome.)

"Theories abound as to why Ryzen processors are struggling in gaming metrics"

Well there's more than a theory, there's an actual fact. The Windows 10 thread scheduler does not work properly with Ryzen. It identifies all 16 threads as a physical cores complete with their own dedicated L1 and L2 cache. This is obviously incorrect and adversely effects performance which is why many reviewers disable SMT on the processor during gaming benchmarks. Microsoft and AMD are actively working on a fix. Until then, I don't see the point of releasing more benchmarks for a crippled processor. I think you should either wait for the upcoming patch or test using Windows 7 which does not have this bug and utilizes Ryzen properly provided the correct drivers are installed. (Note, I do not have a dog in this fight, but I hate to see skewed results from an unfair comparison regardless of the outcome.)

(I just looked at this again and AMD apparently doesn't think there is a problem but Microsoft has a statement indicating that there is something wrong and are working on it. Might be worth investigating.)

Do you have a link to Microsoft's statement. I've heard those claims are based on a tweet, and have yet to see anything official.

 

[redgarl]

Interesting read here: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3180525/components-processors/amd-busts-ryzen-performance-myths-clearing-windows-10-and-others-from-blame.html

BTW, many of the mods have built or are building Ryzen rigs (including me). This is for those who insist we are a bunch of shills for "insert company here".

Because you never give the full picture. You always provide conclusions over debatable argument.

See the picture? 1% more GAMING performance at 4k for 600$ more... Intel inside...

Another one since everyone else doesn't know what they are talking about...

Yeah yeah, I know, GPU bottleneck, however 4k will be GPU bottleneck for the next 3-4 years... so why even bothering.

http://

 

[Baksi]

is it the same render in Deus Ex?
it is seems that ryzen was in dx11 and intel was in dx12.

 

[keeif]

Please, can you guys use more differentiating colors in your graphs already. I'm going to have an aneurysm trying to read them.

 

[COLGeek]

Interesting read here: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3180525/components-processors/amd-busts-ryzen-performance-myths-clearing-windows-10-and-others-from-blame.html

BTW, many of the mods have built or are building Ryzen rigs (including me). This is for those who insist we are a bunch of shills for "insert company here".

Because you never give the full picture. You always provide conclusions over debatable argument.

See the picture? 1% more GAMING performance at 4k for 600$ more... Intel inside...

Another one since everyone else doesn't know what they are talking about...

Yeah yeah, I know, GPU bottleneck, however 4k will be GPU bottleneck for the next 3-4 years... so why even bothering.

http://

The reality with "reviews" is simply this. Reviews are like rear ends. They all stink (from a certain perspective)

In all of my professional career, I have never seen a universally lauded review of any product. Someone will always find fault, or a scenario that "should" have been included.

I would suggest that each review, regardless of source, be taken within the context presented. Constructive criticism is fair, but questioning the motives and integrity of the reviewer/site serves no purpose.

Debate the merits with facts. Attack positions and back them up with sources.

Feel free to provide your own (this is a rhetorical statement) review for others to consider.

Thanks for all of the discussion.

 

[Giroro]

My understanding is that Windows 7 does not have the scheduler bug that causes SMT to reduce performance in Windies 10.

 

[RealBeast]

"Theories abound as to why Ryzen processors are struggling in gaming metrics"

I big one I don't see you mention is there is a bug with the Windows 10 thread scheduler and it does not correctly identify physical cores from "virtual" ones with Ryzen's SMT implentation. Nor does it correctly identify how much L1 and L2 cache it can utilize. AMD and MS are actively working on a fix, but until then I don't see the point of releasing more benchmarks. Windows 7 does not have this bug, so testing on that platform would be a far better measure of the chip's actual performance. (I don't have a dog in this fight, but I hate to see an unfair comparison regardless of the outcome.)

Apparently, AMD disagrees with you on the Windows 10 scheduler issue: "We have investigated reports alleging incorrect thread scheduling on the AMD Ryzen™ processor. Based on our findings, AMD believes that the Windows® 10 thread scheduler is operating properly for “Zen,” and we do not presently believe there is an issue with the scheduler adversely utilizing the logical and physical configurations of the architecture." from AMD Community Update. They do not presently, however, explain why W7 performance is apparently better.

 

[Guest]

Someone says games are not optimized to use 8 cores...well that applies to 6900k as well sherlock.

 

[CaptainTom]

Any word on Ryzen gaming "Feeling smoother"?

I have heard this in several Ryzen reviews, and I am hoping someone will try and measure this quantitatively.

 

[mellis]

This is why I always wait when any new product comes out before I buy it. It may be another year before I see a reason to update my I7-3930K.

 

[randomizer]

Without presenting this info, you are manipulating data and make this an non-objective article.

If they benchmarked at 4K someone else would complain about GPU bottlenecks skewing the results. If you ran 4K and 1080p then people from both sides would complain about half of the results. It's impossible to write a review that will universally appease people who only accept reviews which show them what they want to see.

Any word on Ryzen gaming "Feeling smoother"?

I have heard this in several Ryzen reviews, and I am hoping someone will try and measure this quantitatively.

Ah yes, that's the effect of AMD's incredible platformance. People have been talking about this since the first release of K10.

 

[Crashman]

Also:
It's been a long time since I cared if Intel's compilers played nicely with anyone else's CPUs. Have they still been "go[ing] out of their way to deoptimize code on non-Intel CPUs?" Eight years is a long time to slowly start sneaking code back into their codebase - not that they've needed to, of course, given how, er, "delightfully performant" AMD CPUs have been performing relative to Intel CPUs. (OK, I'll take my corporate conspiracy-theory hat off now.)

I thought the Russians hacked the benchmarks?

 

[none12345]

In multithreaded, or multitasking, or megatasking senerios ryzen just completely and utterly destroys anything intel has to offer once you consider price. You can spend 4 times as much and get a 6950k and then you can finally beat ryzen, but you have to spend 4 friking times as much on the cpu+mobo. Choosing intel for those workloads unless money is absoultely no object is just utterly insane.

So, if we ignore the usage sernios where ryzen just completely stomps intel right now, and we focus on gaming.

Its what 5-10% worse on average in maximum frames?

I didnt buy ryzen primarily for gaming, i do heavy workloads sometimes but i also game. In all the games ive loaded so far ive noticed the same thing. A butter smooth gaming expierence, no dips, no crashes, no studders etc. Im 100% gpu bound in any game ive loaded. But, of course i am with only a $200 graphics card, there was no point in buying anything better before because i was cpu bound upgrading to ryzen.

If you ONLY game, and do nothing else while you game. Then there are better value intel chips on the market for that. That is true right now, but when r5s some out that may very well quickly change. Youll be looking at $150-250(dont know the price) chips. We shall see when they relase, but for now, when ONLY gaming, intel can offer you a better value.

For me personaly i always have more then one thing going on on my computer. Even when im gaming i have other stuff open, movies playing, web broswers, etc. I can do more then just run a game and not have to worry about a game studdering because i want to do more then 1 thing at a time.

This processor is a beast. And if you do anything more then just game. If you run anything while you game, if you want to stream. Ryzen is just an absurd value.

Unless im trying to load up all 8c/16t, ryzen looks completely board in any game. It just sits there saying 'IS THAT ALL YOU GOT!'

 

[-Fran-]

Thanks for the follow up, fellas. Much appreciated.

Will you guys go deeper with the outliers? Like ask the Devs about libraries and tools used for the game and such? I believe DeusEx and Shadow of Mordor use internally developed engines?

In any case, please keep 'em coming.

Cheers!

 

[Thomas_180]

Unfortunately multi-threaded gaming shows a bad example. It took forever for game companies to start using multi-cores. But the worst is that avearage games and even Windows OS itself STILL have a key favored core around which multi-core use revolves. Its why single core performance has remained quite crucial for most games or apps which strain the CPU.

My point is that is quite likely years before new games fit Zen architecture like a glove or even as well as Intel.

Yes it will be crucial to see what AMD software support can do to deliver libraries that automatically reschedule or repackage current threading practices. It won't be truly optimized for AMD but detecting unfavorable patterns in thread usage then ensuring as few timing conflicts as possible will be important.

So perhaps Windows thread scheduling is not inherently at fault assuming threading designs are ZEN optimized. But I suspect that until truly Zen optimized games are somewhat common options -- working scheduling will be probably be the way to minimize ZEN clashes with how current threading is designed. The first obvious thing being to make sure that any game's central critical path thread pattern runs in a different CCX than the OS. But if there are any favored faster CCX to CCX paths (more than 8 cores total) the OC main CCX and game main CCX would want to be connected.

 

[Lorez27]

Happy to see more than half of these titles were my projects in PC compatibility. Nuff said