Santorum's take on church vs state

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Remove any religious ideals someone could extract from them.
Then, reread them.
Why have drunk driving ads?
Pregnancy ads?
Anti smoking ads?
If theyre ineffectual, then the government is once again wasting tons of money.
If they are efective, this is a good thing, and tho they are words from the bible, doesnt mean we shouldnt use them.
I can give various examples where words from other writings are used in many varying ways, and again, are used for the betterment of the people.
We tear down certain things, we leave vacuums.
So, either quote no others, be original, or quit spending our money.

If people lose track its only because of being from the bible, then I guess we need to blame ourselves, if you so believe, and God, even if you dont

 

[musical marv]

Such a liberal argument. Liberals first need to learn to be tolerant. Second, they need to understand that not everyone will be happy. Third, they need to understand that most of the time "not everyone will be happy" will likely be them.

And Republicans must learn not to be afraid of everything they are confronted with in life.They do not have one proposal
to lift up the economy and create jobs. They know one thing to kiss the ass of the rich and corporations and banks!

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Start opening up federally owned or controlled land to oil drilling, I think Ive heard every one of them say this.
Obama claims so much oil is coming now, but our federal contributions are severely lagging behind what they once were, and way behind even more of what they can be.
The oil being pumped now come from private or pre existing fed wells

 

[riser]

Plenty of Federal land is open for oil exploration and drilling... it just happens to be the land that doesn't have any oil under it. The current administration says they have milions of acres of land open.. but they don't mention it is worthless for oil exploration/drilling.

 

[johnsonma]

My question is, if gas prices are on the rise, expected to hit $4.00/gal. by summer why are we exporting so much of it. I am talking about refined gasoline not crude.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2011-12-31/united-states-export/52298812/1

/scratches head

Sorry for the derail. Here's a great column from Ann Coulter on Rick Santorum and I happen to agree with most of it concerning ol' Ricky.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=49879

I hope that you don't agree that higher education is for democrat indoctrination. We will never be able to provide a cheaper unskilled workforce than say, india or china. We can however, have the best skilled workforce out there. It would be our niche in the global economy.

 

[johnsonma]

Not all higher education, but most Universities are nothing more than indoctrination centers for the youth, absolutley I agree with that. I've experienced it first hand when I finished my degree as an adult. And that was at a local community college even. My professors were so freakin liberal and they could not tolerate opposing points of view. I even had to modify my papers to fit with their view in fear of getting a failing grade. It royally sucked!

There are two kinds of professors, the ones you have to agree with and the ones that you have to disagree with. Once you figure that out you can pass any class. I know that some professors may have liberal point of views, but you cannot judge all of the universities on this alone. My higher educational experience was the other way around, many of my professors were conservative. One of my finance professors was a ridiculously attractive blonde from Sweden, but she had no political affiliation(I didn't learn much in that class and I'm not even sure if she could vote). My business ethics professor was a retired air force pilot who served on carriers during the first Iraqi War, he was a conservative. You cannot judge something by only seeing a sliver of it or by taking someone's word for it.

Besides all that, anyone with half a brain will not blindly buy into what people tell them and become "indoctrinated". If they do become indoctrinated, they were probably an idiot to begin with and no harm done. Idiots will be idiots even if they are liberal or conservative. People that come to their reasoning by their own means, are the ones worth listening to.

 

[johnsonma]

I get that, I do. That's why I was able to pass all my classes with flying colors. But, like I said I went back to school in my early 30's after becoming a father at age 22, and working in the private sector since the age of 15. I had a much different perspective on the country than say an 18 year old skull full of mush just coming out of high school. They are far more easily swayed to the professor's opinions than I would be simply because of my experience and maturity.

Here is an example of indoctrination at the middle school level. I watched this story last night and my heart broke for this young lady. She is being persecuted by the education establishment for simply telling the truth of what she learned.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/tearful-eighth-grader-defends-controversial-essay-on-gbtv-not-a-racial-issue-its-a-learning-issue/

You watch Glenn Beck?!?!?!? How would you feel if you were a teacher at one of these schools, doing your best to teach, and then a child writes an essay saying that your a racist and your just trying to keep black people down? Would you not be insulted by that? Would you not be insulted by the label "White Teachers"? It is only the white teacher's fault, the other races are fine, but the white ones are the racist bigots.

I do not see an example of social indoctrination here at all. All I see is little girl who has been influenced by her mother to be inclined to dislike white people, so she reads a book about slavery and pulls from that book the idea that all white teachers are racist, and that they are trying to keep the black people as slaves by keeping them uneducated. No wonder Glenn Beck went with this story. I hate that guy with a passion. Speaks of the doom of the American financial system and then makes a killing promoting a gold investment company. Even has an ad in the article in question!

 

[johnsonma]

Umm, you didn't read the article did you? You just saw it was glenn beck and instantly formed your conclusion. How very sad.

The young lady was quoting Frederick Douglas in an essay about Frederick Douglas. Read dude!

Your hate for Beck has completely clouded your thinking.

Glenn first started advocating buying gold when it was $400/oz. Now, the people that listened to him then and started doing just that, how do you think they feel now?

Glenn clearly says that he buys gold as an insurance policy against the declining dollar. He is very clear that it is not for everyone and you should do your own homework.

For you to harp on this just shows your complete ignorance about what Glenn Beck does. Cheers!

I read the whole article and the accompanying article as well. At first I felt bad for the child until I read further into it and read some of the quotes for her article. Then and only then did i draw my final conclusion. Seeing that the article was on the glenn beck show did nothing to influence my opinion on the story but reminded me of how much I hate that bastard.

The fact that you are defending Glenn Beck tells me all I need to know.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/stupidquotes/a/glenn-beck-quotes.htm

How the hell can you defend this guy? My 5 year old nephew has a better grasp of reality then this hack. He is a ******* moron.

Satan's mentally challenged younger brother." –Stephen King, writing in "Entertainment Weekly" (Source) <---LOL, perfect description.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

“It just appears to me that here again our staff doesn’t seem to be on the same page as parents and students,” Elliott said. “That’s distressing to me.”
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20120228/NEWS01/302270062/douglass-essay-jada-williams?odyssey=mod|mostview
This wouldve been my response.
If someone doesnt feel included, and has catching up to do on top of that, someones been dropping the ball.
As far as Becks concerned, I agree with OMG, hes been an attack target by the media, and it speaks more to the people quoting them than Beck most the time.
If someone doesnt recognize the dislike of Beck by the main stream media, then I feel they are either being duped, or simply not paying real attention.
If someone finds it easier to accept this tripe from the media, then usually they are just as lazy about the facts.
It also sometimes tends to fit their particular political/lifestyle, and is not only news, but often quoted as fact, and until someone disagrees with them, its the only time they actually try to inform themselves, but unfortunately, they tend to go back to the same slanted groups which provided the somewhat dubious info to begin with.
I find it much better to check both sides, and seek several sources that can produce an unbiased account of the facts

 

[johnsonma]

Those quotes, I mean really? All except the 1st are taken completely out of context. I know this because I actually listen to the source rather than listen to what others tell me to think about the source.

The 1st quote is accurate in my opinion. Obama called his own grandmother "a typical white person" in his own book. That tells me he has a chip on his shoulder about white people.

Nice try, but fail. You are obviously an intelligent person as evidenced by the discussion we have had in this thread. But you are glaringly ignorant when it comes to Glenn Beck, that is for certain.

You libs love to tout diversity. Just not diversity of thought.

If you make a valid point with actual reasoning behind it, I will listen. I value different perspectives, and I am always one to ask what people think. As much as you want want to group "libs" into this category of single minded thinking, it is not true, any intelligent person will realize that they do not know everything, and that the advice and perspectives of the people around them is invaluable. Conservatives are far more guilty of a closed throught process that liberals. The party of NO and WE ARE ALWAYS RIGHT. Even faced with insurmountable evidence the hardcore tea baggers will deny and lie to the end. They would rather the country face economic ruin than compromise on issues with democrats. Even republicans don't like them, and that's saying something.

Here are some videos that have the previous quotes in them plus more ridiculous comments from Glenn Beck. That way you can hear it straight from the horses mouth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqk7W0jk9SM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVH_45acqaM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgbg604XqPY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0tgvWxC_6A&feature=related

Here is a good video to watch about the pathology associated with the Glenn Beck "thought process", I thought it was kind of amazing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx7FdA7af8s

 

[johnsonma]

“It just appears to me that here again our staff doesn’t seem to be on the same page as parents and students,” Elliott said. “That’s distressing to me.”
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20120228/NEWS01/302270062/douglass-essay-jada-williams?odyssey=mod|mostview
This wouldve been my response.
If someone doesnt feel included, and has catching up to do on top of that, someones been dropping the ball.
As far as Becks concerned, I agree with OMG, hes been an attack target by the media, and it speaks more to the people quoting them than Beck most the time.
If someone doesnt recognize the dislike of Beck by the main stream media, then I feel they are either being duped, or simply not paying real attention.
If someone finds it easier to accept this tripe from the media, then usually they are just as lazy about the facts.
It also sometimes tends to fit their particular political/lifestyle, and is not only news, but often quoted as fact, and until someone disagrees with them, its the only time they actually try to inform themselves, but unfortunately, they tend to go back to the same slanted groups which provided the somewhat dubious info to begin with.
I find it much better to check both sides, and seek several sources that can produce an unbiased account of the facts

I did not inherit or obtain my dislike of Glenn Beck from the evil media empire. I watched ONE show of his and immediately knew this guy was a fraud.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Id say hes a tad goofy, may over exuberant?
But, he has been not only consistent with his approach, but fairly factual as well.
Sometimes he does see the writing on the wall, other times, I hope hes wrong, and he is.

I guess, the big thing is, most of his quotes are taken out of context by the media, and you have to be careful as to who you quote about him, which speaks volumes about our woeful media

 

[johnsonma]

Linky #1:
Rachael Maddow if taking a big leap by inferring Glenn is calling that veterans organization a "communist front group" which he did not. Glenn is talking about MoveOn.org who is absolutley organizing with The Communist Party USA, The Open Borders Society, The Tides Foundation, The Center For American Progress, The Apollo Alliance, various unions including SEIU, and dozens of other organizations all of whom receive funding, directly or indirectly, from George Soros. Glenn Beck has spent hundreds of hours on his radio and TV show illustrating how these organizations and the people that run them are tied together and have been for decades.

But, since you don't watch or listen this just sounds crazy to you because you are uninformed and ignorant about these things, or simply don't care because you support the goals of these organizations.

Anyone who knows Glenn, knows he is an strong supporter of our military. He raised $4.2 million for the Special Operations Warriors Foundation in a single day during his 8/28 rally. Of course, you're not going to hear that watching Rachael Mandow.

Linky#2:
How is he supposed to answer a question about something he said when he is mis-quoted. It is clearly a loaded question and cute little Katie was trying to trip him up. I would have reacted the same way. See quote #1 you posted a link to yesterday. He said President Obama has a chip on his shoulder about white people, and I somewhat agree based on Obama's own words and actions. He called his own grandmother a "typical white woman". What the hell is that supposed to mean? In his first day in office he had the bust of Winston Churchhill packed up and sent back to the British who gave it to George W. Bush after 9/11. This may seem odd to some but not to the informed. You see, Obama's father was a communist revolutionary during British rule in Kenya. He was arrested during a rally/riot and imprisoned and probably tortured by the Brits so you can understand his distaste for western colonialism, especially the Brits. This is why his book is titled "Dreams FROM my Father", not dreams of my father. What was his father's dreams that he passed on? I think we can guess the answer.

Linky #3:
I'm not sure what this video is trying to illustrate. It is several years old when he was still with CNN and the war in Iraq was still raging. That congressman was advocating we pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan entirely and pretty much give up the war on terror. In my view it was a legitmate question to ask even though he asked it in a weird way.

Linky #4:
Seriously? That's the best evidence you can dig up that Glenn is a racist? A 30 second snippet from 2007?

Linky #5:
Absolutley insulting. Notice they didn't actually play any clips of interviews but proceeded to insult their lack of intelligence simply because they disagree on any given topic.

Your reference to the TEA Party as tea baggers is also equally insulting, and not appreciated.

1. He is a strong supporter of our military until he gets a whiff of that communism, lol. Seriously, we have come so far from Cold War and yet people still buy into this communism crap?

2. Katie is twice as intelligent than Glenn Beck will ever be. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/28/fox-host-glenn-beck-obama_n_246310.html. Misquoted my ass, he said what he said so quit trying to defend him. He knew that he couldn't lie his way out of that one so he just refused to say anything. All she was was for him to clarify what he meant too, what a complete joke of a person. You referring to Obama as a communist is laughable and only leads me to believe that you have bought into the bullshit that is spewed by Glenn Beck and Co.

3. He basically asked an elected congressman if he was a traitor and a spy. Absolutely no respect for what the man has accomplished, and for his position within our government. He has no respect for anyone but himself.

4. He is a racist, plain and simple. Not sure why its even up for debate given all of the racist statements from him.


5. Here is the link in relation to linky #5 for clarification, notice how well informed these people are, quite the intelligent group.

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/09/02/when-stupid-people-dont-know-that-they-are-stupid-glenn-becks-restoring-honor-rally-and-the-dunning-kruger-effect/


Before you blow a gasket over facing the truth of Glenn Beck, I apologize for the Tea Bagger statement, but everything I said
about them I stand by. They are like children who would rather bury their head in ignorance than actually do something.

You can say that he was misquoted or misinterpreted all you want, it doesn't change the fact that he is a liar and plays on people's emotions. He pulls these conspiracy theories out of his *** by making radical connections and uses the fear that it creates to make people believe him. Clear your mind and do real research about some of his outlandish statements, you will realize that he is playing you for the fool.

 

[musical marv]

1. He is a strong supporter of our military until he gets a whiff of that communism, lol. Seriously, we have come so far from Cold War and yet people still buy into this communism crap?

2. Katie is twice as intelligent than Glenn Beck will ever be. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/28/fox-host-glenn-beck-obama_n_246310.html. Misquoted my ass, he said what he said so quit trying to defend him. He knew that he couldn't lie his way out of that one so he just refused to say anything. All she was was for him to clarify what he meant too, what a complete joke of a person. You referring to Obama as a communist is laughable and only leads me to believe that you have bought into the bullshit that is spewed by Glenn Beck and Co.

3. He basically asked an elected congressman if he was a traitor and a spy. Absolutely no respect for what the man has accomplished, and for his position within our government. He has no respect for anyone but himself.

4. He is a racist, plain and simple. Not sure why its even up for debate given all of the racist statements from him.


5. Here is the link in relation to linky #5 for clarification, notice how well informed these people are, quite the intelligent group.

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/09/02/when-stupid-people-dont-know-that-they-are-stupid-glenn-becks-restoring-honor-rally-and-the-dunning-kruger-effect/


Before you blow a gasket over facing the truth of Glenn Beck, I apologize for the Tea Bagger statement, but everything I said
about them I stand by. They are like children who would rather bury their head in ignorance than actually do something.

You can say that he was misquoted or misinterpreted all you want, it doesn't change the fact that he is a liar and plays on people's emotions. He pulls these conspiracy theories out of his *** by making radical connections and uses the fear that it creates to make people believe him. Clear your mind and do real research about some of his outlandish statements, you will realize that he is playing you for the fool.

Beck is another Savage always making people paranoid with his crazy concepts.Savage saying yesterday that a conspiracy may have happened pertaining to Andrew Breibarts sudden death yesterday.These are entertainers with in the wrong media could be dangerous to unpredictable listeners.

 

[johnsonma]

That's fine john. We are never going to agree on Glenn Beck.

However, you forming an opinion based on 5+ year old 30 second sound bites further illustrates your ignorance, and level of maturity. In addition, it makes me think you're not as smart as I thought you were.

The fact that Gleen Beck has become a staple of the republican establishment is scary and can be directly linked to the gross degradation of the republican party. Glenn Beck indocritnates people with fear, the greatest enemy of logic and reason.

In this thread I have said that I have watched his "show" and then provided many examples of him on other shows, radio sound bites and interviews. Then you say that my opinion is based solely on 30 second sounds bites?!? Not to mention that them being 5+ years old should have no bearing on their legitimacy. That my friend, is the DEFINITION of ignorance, but it is a required trait to believe the vile crap that comes out of Glenn Beck's mouth. Research some of the stuff that he says and you will realize what he truly is, a manipulative liar who takes advantage of people.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I'd add, his close ties to Israel shows his lack of racism.
Like I said earlier, you need to carefully choose who says what about him.
Then research that as well.
I know quite a few "popular" spin heads, even if theyre only just popular, such as hollowoodians.
Many of these play upon the beliefs of their following, and enhance them.
Beck asks to check yourself before you believe him, quite a contrast

 

[musical marv]

That's fine john. We are never going to agree on Glenn Beck.

However, you forming an opinion based on 5+ year old 30 second sound bites further illustrates your ignorance, and level of maturity. In addition, it makes me think you're not as smart as I thought you were.

Sound bites can be modified to make it seem like what you want the listener to hear.Same as videos.

 

[johnsonma]

You once again show YOUR ignorance. The Republican establishment hates Glenn Beck and want nothing more than for him to go away.

I don't need to 'research' anything. I listen for 3 hours a day. He puts out a total of 5 hours a day.

He is close friends with Alveeda King so yes he must be a devout racist. You sure got him pegged.

I find your "examples" extremely lacking but you have your opinion and I have mine.

The fact that you "hate" someone just because you disagree with them speaks volumes.

If you don't think communism is alive and well then you once again are showing your ignorance.

http://www.cpusa.org/

Glenn Beck has become a prominent figure within the republican establishment whether they like it or not. The reason they don't like him is because of how it makes other people, who are not entranced by Beck, view the republican party.

You listen to Glenn Beck for 3 hours a day and then feel that everything he said is the truth and requires no research? Wow!

Those examples show Glenn Beck on his show, other shows and even in public events and yet you find they are lacking. You can deny the truth all you want, like I said ignorance is part of the equation as related to Glenn Beck.

I don't hate him because I disagree with him, I hate him because he takes advantage of people for his own greed. Its amazing how you can come to the conclusion that the sole reason I hate him is because I disagree with him. Your emotional defense of this man has robbed you of your reasoning.

Alive it may be, but well? Everyone is entitled to their opinion, we do live in America after all. If people think that communism is the right answer, then fine, they can think what they want. Glenn Beck conjures it up to seem as though it is a threat to our national security, a rebellion, full of traitors, that will stop at nothing to overthrow the American regime. Do you know why he does this? This plays on peoples FEAR, especially the elderly who were around for the cold war and have an engrained fear of communism. The site you linked looked completely benign and without malice. Was that link suppose to fill me full of dread about the downfall of capitalism and the end of the American Dream?

Read up on his behavior, I know you will automatically discredit for some reason because I linked it, but maybe some of it will actually sink in.

http://www.sharethisurlaboutglennbeck.com/2011/02/why-glenn-beck-isnt-crazy-and-millions.html

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201004/tantrum-morality-tea-party-and-glenn-beck

http://asterisky.com/2011/05/06/birthers-deathers-and-glenn-beck-the-psychology-of-conspiracy-theories/

 

[johnsonma]

I'd add, his close ties to Israel shows his lack of racism.
Like I said earlier, you need to carefully choose who says what about him.
Then research that as well.
I know quite a few "popular" spin heads, even if theyre only just popular, such as hollowoodians.
Many of these play upon the beliefs of their following, and enhance them.
Beck asks to check yourself before you believe him, quite a contrast

If someone has close ties to Israel they are automatically not racist? This is news to me!
Most of my examples show it straight from the horses mouth.
I agree that Glenn beck is not the first or the last to play on peoples beliefs or emotions. That includes the left and the right.

 

[johnsonma]

Sound bites can be modified to make it seem like what you want the listener to hear.Same as videos.

If I could link to full episodes of his, I would. Its not like the videos of him jump from one part to the next, they are continual streams that show as is. The reason I link some of the ones that show him on other shows is because it portrays the real Glenn Beck without his scripted dialogue.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

So, saying this is more like a blazing saddles scenario?
Otherwords "everyone but the Irish!"?
If he aims at evil people, that doesnt make him racist.
If he disagrees with people different than him, it doesnt mke him racist.

The racist tags are old and wimpy, so handily thrown about now days.
Its getting to the point we wont recognize a racist, even if theyre taking advantage of you.
Crying wolf doesnt mean theres a wolf, and after time, it wont matter when there is one

 

[johnsonma]

So, saying this is more like a blazing saddles scenario?
Otherwords "everyone but the Irish!"?
If he aims at evil people, that doesnt make him racist.
If he disagrees with people different than him, it doesnt mke him racist.

The racist tags are old and wimpy, so handily thrown about now days.
Its getting to the point we wont recognize a racist, even if theyre taking advantage of you.
Crying wolf doesnt mean theres a wolf, and after time, it wont matter when there is one

He aims at evil people? Give me a break, lol. He aims at whoever will create the most controversy and keep his audience faithful.

That fact that he is a birther makes him a racist. All birthers are without a doubt, racist. Maybe not in a hateful sense, but they still treat black people differently. How in the world can you call your president a muslim and a foreigner? Absolutely no respect, none whatsoever.

I could care less that he is a racist at this point. The lies and fear that he infects on unsuspecting people is a far greater crime against humanity.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

So, Arpaio is racist?
Now, you said because he stands with Israel doesnt mean hes not a racist, then you turn around and accuse all those who speculate the presidents birth place racist?
Re-read what I just said, cause lowering the bar for racism isnt a wise thing to do

 

[musical marv]

So, Arpaio is racist?
Now, you said because he stands with Israel doesnt mean hes not a racist, then you turn around and accuse all those who speculate the presidents birth place racist?
Re-read what I just said, cause lowering the bar for racism isnt a wise thing to do

I am sick and tired of Israel being used as a pawn in this game we play who loves Israel all the time.Let israel defend themselves if they want war with Iran!Benjamin N is a Dove all the way.

 

[johnsonma]

Showing your ignorance again john? Beck is not a 'birther'. In fact, he regularly makes fun of birthers on his radio program and often brings up how silly it is to pursue the issue.

I've never heard him call the President a Muslim or a foreigner.

Can you give some examples of the lies he is infecting people with? I mean real, intentional lies. i.e. he knows the truth but says the opposite, not a mistake that he later corrects. There is a difference.

Your right, beck is not a birther, it kind of blew my mind. Something too farfetched for even Glenn Beck to get behind? What does that tell you about Sarah Palin and Donald Trump! Unlike you, OMG, I will admit when I'm wrong and accept facts and evidence to that contradict what I previously thought, so enough with the ignorance comment, its childish that you feel the need to impose one of your perceived shortcomings to people who disagree with you. I know that Glenn Beck is probably your idol but in the end I am just trying to help you realize he is a fraud.

He did say that Obama had a deep seated hatred for white culture, which just means white people. You can try to deny this all you want but he never would clarify, which leads to only one logical reasoning behind the comment. He did this with no evidence backing him, just his gut feeling.

Here are some of the lies for you, and watching that much Glenn Beck about killed me so you better be happy. By the way the second video got removed, I am guessing that somebody filed a complaint against the video. If I was Glenn Beck I bet I could come up with one hell of a conspiracy theory for this! Damn nazi, communist, socialist, liberal Obama took down my video!

http://lynnrockets.wordpress.com/2010/09/07/glenn-beck-lies-to-his-naive-followers-again/

Just look at how the man conducts himself on the first video, its like watching a child, painful really. How can you defend this man is beyond me.