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LordKaos your a idoit. well a tnt 16mb and 3dfx banchee 16mb can run in unreal tour. and quake3 at 30fps in 640x480 w/ k6-2 450.

First person to get a topic banned. ABIT BP6 Lives FOREVER!!!
 
Unreal Tournament isn't strictly a Unreal 2, as far as that goes... games with triple textures are coming, as they always do when a new technology is coming...
just thought I'd point those two out...
 
Just notice at PlanetHardware pre-view of NV-20 one of the first things mention is better overdraw capability. I wonder why? HSV-hidden surface removal, the ability of a card to bypass rendering unseen polygons and textures. Well that is exactly what Villigemark addresses - how effective is the vidio card ability to handle overdraw. I was hoping some fine people here would post results from there Nvidia, 3DFX and what not so that we can compare. Anyways I pulled some villiagemark scores off the net to compare with what I can produce on my machine. My machine is an Athlon 800 with 256mb pc133 equipped with a Radeon 64 VIVO Retail. Operating systems are WinMe using latest certified drivers directly from Microsoft and W2k latest Special Purpose drivers from ATI. Ace Hardware also ranned some test using Villiagemark on a Athlon 800. So I will use my results mixed in with theres. Obviously newer drivers can affect results in which case for my Radeon it performs better than the article Radeon. Here is some snippits from Ace Hardware:

"Impressive, HYPER Z does an excellent job! While the Radeon does not achieve the same efficiency a "true" tile-based rendering card (72 fps), with bilinear filtering, the Geforces suffer a crushing defeat. The Radeon is no less than 61% faster than the Geforce, clock for clock. "

"This demo simulates a very simple game environment type, which is becoming more common in real games, moving a character about a real world environment from the first person perspective. As such, the character is moving at Eye height in a village scenario, which generates very high scene complexity due to the number of houses."

Well here are my results and comparisons:

1024x768x16 with trilinear filtering, T&L

Radeon 53FPS W2k(48)
GeForce 2 GTS 32FPS
Voodoo 5 23FPS
Salvage 2000 1FPS

1024x768x16 with trilinear filtering off, T&L

Radeon 85FPS W2k(74)
GeForce 2 GTS 35FPS
Voodoo 31 FPS
Salvage 2000 13FPS

Another benchmark or should I say game that the Radeon performs better than any currently available video card out is Test Drive 6 which uses T&L and large textures. People who buy the Radeon now will probably play on it longer due to its many more advance technical advantages then the Nvidia cards except for the NV-20, Nvidia is now playing catch up to ATI.
<b><font color=blue>ATI RULES....!!!!!</b></font color=blue> :tongue:






<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 02/12/01 10:56 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
Halo from Bungie will use more than 2 textures. Check out the screen shots:
<A HREF="http://halo.bungie.com/screenshots/" target="_new">http://halo.bungie.com/screenshots/</A>
This game is expected to change how PC, Mac and console games are looked at. In short ground breaking that makes most games today look anemic. Unfortunately or not Microsoft bought out Bungie, it will now be release first on the X-box, then pc/mac. Look at the movie and you will realize a whole new era in gaming is on the horizon:
<A HREF="http://www.apple.com/games/bungie/halo/movies/" target="_new">http://www.apple.com/games/bungie/halo/movies/</A>

What better way for Microsoft to release the X-box then with the most advance game engine out on the market. Lucky also for Nvidia and there new video chipset. Radeon should do well here also. We will see.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 02/09/01 10:32 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
i have become classically conditioned to hobbit's name. when i see it i automatically start scrolling down very quickly to avoid looking at it.

Companies that = cancer
ati creative lexmark micro$oft mitsumi rambu$ via
 
also he should put a disclaimer up to protect himself:

i am not responsible for any finger sprains from extrenous scolling via your mouse wheel!

Companies that = cancer
ati creative lexmark micro$oft mitsumi rambu$ via
 
Me a idiot? (Not idoit!) Look who´s talking!
I can almost triple that value with my Geforce 2 at
1024*768*32 in a Piii-800!
I could get better than those values with a Riva TNT PCi w/16Mb on a Pentium 233 MMX, at that resolution! (My old PC!)

And i´m the idiot?
I don´t think so!
If you´re looking for one, just look at yourself in a mirror anytime! :-D

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone
 
I agree that those results are impressive; i'm wondering what an ultra would look like although i still don't believe it'll catch the Radeon. It looks like the Radeon will do well once games start implementing hidden surfaces. Oh, and trust me, I've been drooling over Halo for a couple months now and the XBox fiasco has irritated me to no extent. The problem remains that the Ultra's rip Radeons a new one with today's games. I hate to combine two flamefests BUT... it's reminds me very much of the P4 vs. TBird debate. With the TBird/Ultra you get the best performance for the foreseeable future but EVENTUALLY the P4/Radeon *could* turn out to be a good choice once applications have been written for it. Luckily for ATI, the difference in the analogies is that the Radeon is cheaper whereas the P4 demands a premium, and therefore makes someone willing to wait for that performance benefit.

Overall, Villagemark still seems to be a benchmark for applications that do not exist.
 
The Radeon doesn´t even come near the Ultra !
And there´s the Pro in between the GTS and the Ultra!
The Radeon competes in the Geforce 2 GTS market!

I belive the question is: Can the Radeon match up agains the GeForce 2 Pro?

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone
 
What I was referencing was the hidden surfaces benchmarking (Villagemark) in particular, something which none of nVidia were designed to maximize unlike Radeons. As I said, in general, the Ultra rips the Radeon a new hole but I don't think the Ultra will compete effectively on Villagemark (see "The Evil Kyro?" review).
 
I agree there, current low polygon games with small textures the Ultra will be king. When the details go up with many polygons and textures (larger and more) the Radeon will perform better and better against the Ultra. Radeon has much more advance technology than implemented in the Ultra. NV20 should address the overdraw problem (HSR-hidden surface removal) in time for the new era of complex games and really be the King of graphic cards until ATI can catch up with there next generation of the Radeon, then we will see. ATI already commented that a RadeonII max will be produced. I believe that will smoke the NV20 but then I am only guessing or hoping the competition gets fierce enough for this to happen. June looks like a good time frame for the Radeon II, supposenly the Radeon III will be out by the end of this year, I doubt it.
 
Well, you seem to forget that the NV20 is about to pop on the market and the Radeon was just launched !
And the follow up of the NV20 will be filled with 3DFx goodies and that will only take 1 year maximum!
As for ATI , i´m still waiting to see what´s the big deal about them!
They don´t inovate just follow up the Leader (NVidia), they´re behind on technological issue,
and when they launch something is just to keep the pace!
What is ATI?
Second in image quality (MATROX is the first!)!
Second in speed (NVidia is the first!)
First in crappy service (The release of drivers is s..o...
S...l...o...w ,...t...h..a..t..i ...a...m.... s....o..o...o....s...l..e...e.....p...p....y!
.
.
.
.
.
- HEY!! WAKE UP!!

Ohh! Sorry!!

Getting back to business, ATI has a looooooooooooooooooooonnng way to catch up!

But you say:"ATI is faster than the GeForce 2!"
Big Deal!
Its faster than the Geforce 2 GTS, which has been
out of date for about 3-4months!

Faster than the Geforce 2 Pro?
That has to be seen and proven!

Faster than the Geforce 2 Ultra?
No way, Jose! Not even close!


Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone
 
<font color=purple>
Radeon was just launched !
Click to expand...
</font color=purple>
<font color=green><b>Radeon launched in July, available in August and I bought mine in September. Today is Feb 9, 2001. Looks like 6 months to me buddy. Where where you?</b></font color=green> :wink: Besides, when do you think you will be able to pick up a NV20 card? March, April, May? I bet it will be more like late April early May. That is if you want to pay a hefty price for it.
<font color=purple>
.....NV20 will be filled with 3DFx goodies.... :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:
Click to expand...
</font color=purple>
<font color=blue><b>oh boy! I just can't wait...NV-20 6000!!! 4 NV20's in its own box and Power Supply with blue coated retractable cables for your AGP bus. You only have to drill a big hole in your puny pc case.</b> 😱 Just make sure you have a seperate outlet with its own circuit breaker for the VooDoo NV-20 6000.</font color=blue>
<font color=purple>
As for :redface: ATI :redface: , i´m still :redface: waiting :redface: to see what´s the big deal about them! :frown:
Click to expand...
</font color=purple>
<font color=red><b>Reason why you are waiting is that ATI flew bye you some time ago, you see that small :lol: girl up there, yeap that is the Radeon Girl. She is just smaking you good isn't she?</b> Besides she is more cuter than you.</font color=red> 😡
Lets see,
ATI---First in using motion compensation in a video card
ATI---First and only one using IDCT in a video card
ATI---First on DVD quality
ATI---First in 4-matrix vertex skinning and key frame interpolation
ATI---First in using HyperZ, Nvidia is attempting to copy it on the NV-20 over 6 months later
ATI---First PC graphics chip to include an on-chip hardware HDTV decoder
First with 3D texture support for new volumetric effects
First with all DX7 bump mapping effects (emboss, dot product 3 and EMBM)
First with hardware support for 3D shadows
First with advanced DX8 pixel shader effects
First First First First...........Don't forget first in Test Drive 6....
<font color=purple>
The release of drivers..........
Click to expand...
</font color=purple>
I know, I know with Nvidia 3000 diver releases in 2000 for the Geforce, Geforce2 .... seems pretty impressive compared to some 15 for the Radeon. Hey, why so many diver releases, I mean driver releases. Does it mean Nvidia is constantly trying to fix problems with there chipsets? Or trying to get there cards to perform like the Radeon? As for support, Nvidia has none (besides endless number of driver combinations). Nvidia makes chips, cardmakers make the graphic cards. Your mileage will vary with Nvidia chipset cards for support between each manufacturer. Your toll free numbers if they have one will vary. ATI toll free number hasn't changed in years. ATI you can email and usually get a response back in two weeks (maybe they don't perform miracles but they do try). They don't fly down to your house and replace your computer because you fried it either. Kinda hard to find fault with Nvidia support when there is none buddy. ATI has a 5 year warranty, does your card? ATI will replace your Radeon if you find a problem with it. Some have done this to find out it wasn't the Radeon at all. ATI still does it freely without complaint. I don't know about ASUS, ABIT, Guillemot, Creative and so on and so on for support, if any.
<font color=purple>
- HEY!! WAKE UP!! Ohh! Sorry!! 😱
Click to expand...
</font color=purple>

<font color=green><b>Yes you should wake up and apologize. Rade 😎 n users are c 😎 😎 l.</b><font color=green>

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 02/09/01 08:20 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
Interesting colour thread. hehe...


oh boy! I just can't wait...NV-20 6000!!! 4 NV20's in its own box and Power Supply with blue coated retractable cables for your AGP bus. You only have to drill a big hole in your punny pc case. Just make sure you have a seperate outlet with its own circuit breaker for the VooDoo NV-20 6000.
Click to expand...
You know what he meant. 3Dfx quality FSAA (hardware), etc.







Don't forget first in Test Drive 6
Click to expand...
What is that supposed to mean? Test Drive 6 is one of the worst games of all time. It got a whopping 10% from PC Gamer.







I know, I know with Nvidia 3000 diver releases in 2000 for the Geforce, Geforce2 .... seems pretty impressive compared to some 15 for the Radeon. Hey, why so many diver releases, I mean driver releases. Does it mean Nvidia is constantly trying to fix problems with there chipsets? Or trying to get there cards to perform like the Radeon? As for support, Nvidia has none (besides endless number of driver combinations). Nvidia makes chips, cardmakers make the graphic cards. Your mileage will vary with Nvidia chipset cards for support between each manufacturer. You toll free numbers if they have one will vary. ATI toll free number hasn't changed in years. ATI you can email and usually get a response back in two weeks (maybe they don't perform miracles but they do try). They don't fly down to your house and replace your computer because you fried it either. Kinda hard to find fault with Nvidia support when there is none buddy. ATI has a 5 year warranty, does your card. ATI will replace your Radeon if you find a problem with it. Some have done this to find out it wasn't the Radeon at all. ATI still does it freely without complaint. I don't know about ASUS, ABIT, Geromount, Creative and so on and so on for support, if any.
Click to expand...
Uhh If you want to argue about ATi vs. nVidia, support isn't the topic. ATi support is probably the worst in the world. You email ATi and you get a response in 2 years, if you get one at all. He wasn't talking about how many drivers are released either. ATi's drivers blow chunks in my Chevette.

----------------------
I don't hate Intel............ Do I?
 
Girls are always more cutter than boys! (Fact!)
Unless you´re GAY! Are you? (With all that coloured posting , i´m not sure! )

Well , the rest of the post i´ll leave it for Hobbit! (Be my guest!) :-D

Adios L👎oko! :-D

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone
 
<font color=blue>Thanks</font color=blue><font color=green> for</font color=green> <font color=red>the</font color=red> <font color=purple>comment</font color=purple> :smile: (I am not lazy). Well if you E-mailed Nvidia for your troubles on your GTS 2 you will never get a reply. Or maybe a reply referring you to some other manufactuer. Anyways ATI has always returned my E-mail to me when I had a question. Now, can you say the same for your video card? Once again I have to say it is hard to find fault with Nvidia support when they have no support. No one really knows what 3dfx will contribute to the future Nvidia products or at least not telling. Plus the main reason Nvidia bought out 3dfx was because Nvidia stoled or copied the patented designs by 3dfx. This was a legal manuever as far as I see, not a technology acquisition. Nvidia already stoled what they needed. Now they sunked a good company to limit there competition and avoid a legal battle which they could lose big. Do you think this was a friendly mutual take over that now everyone will benefit? New and better 3dfx drivers from Nvidia? Nvidia now owns 3dfx, will they support there customers? You tell me, I heard of none. Or will Voodoo owners be left as orphans? You tell me? Will Nvidia support millions of 3dfx owners with renewed DX8 drivers for there cards or not? Test Drive 6 has some of the most outstanding visuals and open scenes with many high detailed textures and complex polygon backgrounds, unfortunately most graphic cards slow down with this type of complexity except the Radeon. Plus the game play is really too simple for a racing game. Many sites used this for a benchmark because: One of the first T&L games, D3d, benchmarks built in, many visual eye candy. I do like Need for Speed Porsche Unleashed better which runs beatuifully on my Radeon.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 02/09/01 05:37 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
OK, I've agreed with a lot of what you've said up to now. But now you can drop the X-Files conspiracy routine. Furthermore, you can stop comparing apples and oranges. Nvidia did NOT buy their support OR their board production. They have NEVER supported boards and why the heck would they if they aren't building them. Stop w/ the specious arguments. You'll get the reputation of Fugger, hobbit, AMDMeltdown and all the other sniveling women.

Furthermore, I do think they'll incorporate 3dfx's technology. Why else would they buy them? Left to their own devices they were going the way of the dodo, quite unfortunately (otherwise, why would they have sold out?) and that eliminates any legal issues the nVidia MAY have faced. But if there's anything we've learned from RAMBUS it's that a lawsuit does not equate to a wrongdoing.
 
The point is ...
If you e-mail your Card manufacturer they will reply!

NVIDIA is not a card manufacturer!

And don´t you think the legal issue was only the cherry on top of the cake?

And of course they will not support the Voodoo owners !
They only bought the name and the technology!

Test Drive 6?
Have you tryed Porsche Unleashed , to be stating that TD6 has outstanding visuals?
"unfortunately most graphic cards slow down with this thype of complexity except the Radeon" Well , have you have heard of optimization ?
Oh, you did? Then why are you saying such things?

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone
 
Finally, there is no comparison with ATI support and Nvidia. GOOD. So which manufacturer are you comparing with ATI? You think ABIT does a good job? I've have e-mailed them plenty about my motherboard, no replys. Maybe they support there video cards better I don't know. Yes I am in the 70's in Porsche Unleashed. Cool game. Have you tried TD6? besides on the sony playstation? :tongue:
 
If 3dfx was going the way of the dodo what technology did 3dfx have that was so good that it couldn't keep them afloat? You ask the Voodoo owners 6 months from now if Nvidia did them a favor. Your right, I don't know all the details of all the reasons, mostly I've read conjecture which may be false or just plain fantasy.
 
Whats wrong with color, oh I forgot you use a Geforce something. When you get a Radeon you get color not just black and white. Common Hobbit, you and WordKaos join together here and don't forget to bring your ................


"edited by Tom"

Dammit Tom, why did you edit
out wrap around. lol :lol:
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 02/09/01 07:09 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
I also LOVE Porsche Unleashed - it is the best game of 2000 for me - and the graphics are absolutely astounding on my system.

----------------------
I don't hate Intel............ Do I?
 
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