SEA OF GLASS!!!!!

kusek · Mar 9, 2002

I would consider the missing "suitcase nukes" (80-100 of them) from the former Soviet Union to be the greatest threat. They don't need to know how to build those just how to trigger them. At least some of them (maybe all) ended up on the black market and Iran supposedly has at least 3 of them. I think these are 1 kilo ton but the Russians are also missing a 10 kilo ton as well. The 10 kt could kill 1 million people. The Soviets were manageable because they didn't want their country destroyed but I'm not so sure about Iraq and others.

"No Thoroughbred for you! Come back, 2 weeks."

varlo · Mar 9, 2002

What I wrote was what I recalled from my history lessons about 20 years ago...

The faster a computer is, the faster it will reach a crashed state

dhlucke · Mar 9, 2002

The American press has been reporting this, but I haven't seen it anywhere else. It's all over the AM stations though.

If it's true I'd like to see a source. 80-100 nuclear bombs missing? That's insane.

What I read was that two had gone missing, one was found in the hands of the mafia and one is still missing. Beyond that only 4 kg of material is missing, which is still enough in itself. It's enough to cause WWIII.

I get the impression that our media is trying to justify a war with Iraq.

If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?

kusek · Mar 10, 2002

Yeltsin's former Russian National Security Adviser Aleksandr Lebed is the one that brought attention to the nukes on two different occassions ('93 and '97 I believe) during interviews on "60 minutes". Before he was fired from that position he commissioned a study to locate the whereabouts of these devices. Here is a link that talks about <A HREF="http://www.fas.org/nuke/hew/News/Lebedbomb.html" target="_new"> it.</A> Of course current people in the Russian Nuclear Program deny they even exist and if they did exist they would all be under their control. Lol. It also questions Lebed's credability since he was jockeying for Yeltsin's job when he was in the hospital. It also mentions an Israeli newspaper claims Bin Laden bought several for $30 million and 2 tons of Afghan heroin. If that were true I think he would have used them by now but not trying to find out the truth could certainly lead to WWIII and possibly the end of life as we know it anyway.

"No Thoroughbred for you! Come back, 2 weeks."

MeldarthX · Mar 10, 2002

I read that......it just made me sick....I am independent Republican. Do I always agree with what the Republican party does? Of course not, but the other smaller parties are not ready, and the choice between Gore and Bush.......there is no choice......Bush.....

Gore should be in jail as a traitor......

MeldarthX

MeldarthX · Mar 10, 2002

Americans did nothing during the first part of the war? You need to go back and look at history, America kept Britian from falling by itself. Hitler did not want the US in the war until he had all of Europe under his control. It was US embargo of Japan that force Japan to bomb Pearl Harber.

US had the fastest transition from peace time industry to wartime industry that the world had ever seen. We fought a 3 front war and won. No one has done that. Britian had a large part as did the resistant force of countries already under Axis control.

It was US supplies that kept Britian from falling, and Britian was about to fall when the US was brought into the war.

Another reason why the US did not want to get into the war, was because of our large GERMAN population. At the time it was felt it was an European problem and that Europe was big enough to take care of themselves.

Also after the war, it was US loans that helped rebuild your country, in fact all of Europe still owes US billions of dollars from that war, but none have bothered to pay back.

But think about this.......Belgium, and rest of Europe is also on those terrorist lists. Any country that disagrees with their lifestyle, aka their rule is their enemy.

MeldarthX

dhlucke · Mar 10, 2002

Also after the war, it was US loans that helped rebuild your country, in fact all of Europe still owes US billions of dollars from that war, but none have bothered to pay back.

If I'm not mistaken, this is the reason why we don't pay our fees to the UN. I recall there being a big stink about this a few years ago and I believe these old debts were brought up and the issue was dropped. I might be mixing up a couple of things though.

If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?

camieabz · Mar 10, 2002

I believe Britain paid back its debts for WW2. Think of this as well. Britain had the largest empire pre WW2, and if you look at pre vs post war empires, Britain lost BIGTIME!

Who'd fault?

FDR of course. He didn't want any empires in the world, becuase he knew as single countries, USA would be the leader of economy & output. It was done in the name of freedom, but I believe there were more sinister motives.

~ Whew! Finished...Now all I need is a Cyrix badge ~

dhlucke · Mar 10, 2002

Holding the USA responsable for the UK's losses is like Germany holding Italy responsable.

If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?

MeldarthX · Mar 10, 2002

That is a big sticking point with people in UN. UN still upset that US won't pay, but the big reason is. US dollars are being used without our say in the UN. US wants the UN to be held accountable for what it spends. The UN doesn't, and wants complete control.

There was another issue I had with the UN. UN was starting to make safe zones, or nature retreat zones in the world. Guess where they started right here in the US. They are trying to tell us that we don't have a right to use OUR lands and forests. They have to be protected and logging is an evil practice.

Remember the fire in Yellowstone? That wouldn't of happened if the enviromentists hadn't tied the hands of the forest service in courts. Even their own sciencists warned that not clearing the underbrush, dead, and dieing trees would result in a major fires. We are still paying for that fire today.

MeldarthX

MeldarthX · Mar 11, 2002

That's not true. Britian had been fighting to keep its Empire, yes. But countries like India, almost all of Africa had been trying to get their Independents for years now. Now as the major victor US had a lot of say in everything that happened. That is why there became a West Berlin and a East Berlin. It was a compermise*sp* with the Russians. German had no say in anything that happen. Britian was pretty pissed about how things were carved up, but agreed to go along with the US, because they had just been saved by the US. Rest of Europe was some what happy about the results, because new countries were born to make the different nationals happy.

That is why Europe was very nerious when German became a whole again. People were afraid that what happened in WWII would happen again. Same thing in Asia when the US finally said that Japan could have an army again. Asia is still upset about that, because how agressive Japan is.

UN wants to use US troops as the world police force. Fine, then the rest of the world should pick up that tab and not leave it for the US to pay.

camieabz · Mar 11, 2002

I don't hold the USA responsible, or anyone. I don't have a grudge.

I'm mearly saying that the American government of the time wanted Britain's empire carved up, because they were on a crusade for freedom, and it meant that the western powers had to set an example (in FDR's mind).

Britain had no choice because they were financially fvcked. USA had no real empire (although they got a few bits of land from Britain in exchange for debt relief), so they were sitting pretty with the "No empire allowed" attitude, as they were and are one of the only countries of the world which is self sufficient.

So this means that colony 'X' is released from the British empire, and say for example resource 'Y' produced in colony 'X' used to cost $10 per item. Before, $6 went to the empire for taxation and protection and $4 to the colony.

Now the Americans want to pay less for this, so they get Britain to drop the colony and it declares independence. It now has the protection of the U.N.

Now the USA only pays $6 for the resource and it all goes to the colony, but they need to spend $3 for an army, so they're losing $1 from the deal.

When there's a civil war or an invasion, we have to help the USA to put things to right in a country which we owned 50 years ago, but its ok for the U.S.A. because the difference in moneys saved pays for their international police force. In short, everyone loses except the U.S.A.

Weird? I think so. I kinda bugs me to think that an empire built up over 1000 years was lost in a war we won!

~ Whew! Finished...Now all I need is a Cyrix badge ~

zengeos · Mar 11, 2002

Cami, while it's true that it seems that the British Empire became much smaller after WW2, the empire was in actuality shrinking for years prior. Take for example their territories in the Middle East, which they started ceding before WW2 as well as Canada, which, while part of the British Empire in a way, is a separate country altogether now.

Other territories were similar. The British Empire, like other empires prior just grew old and started to fragment. It's par for the course.

While the US isn't an empire per se, the same thing will befall us. Whether we do so as gracefully as the British is another story altogether. We already gave most of our Pacific teritories independence..Philippines, and others. So, it wasn't just the British Empire which *shrank* after WW2.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!

peteb · Mar 11, 2002

UN wants to use US troops as the world police force. Fine, then the rest of the world should pick up that tab and not leave it for the US to pay

Oops - I don't think the world ever asked the US to play police did they? Unless I'm mistaken, the US always takes it upon itself to jump in and play policeman, then let the UN catch up. Any recent 'policing' action has been with little or no global consent or consultation. Afghanistan is just the latest.

Also, this is not a policing action. Sure, I support the US in what she is doing, terrorism is a bad thing, but in case no-one noticed, the US already lost. Sure Afghanistan is even more beat up than it used to be, but very few of the terrorists were captured or killed. Mostly Taliban fighters, and they probably were not the ones getting on planes.

The pictures of the detention camps, the 'collateral damage' and civillian casualties lost the US the propaganda war. You know why France won't support? Try the 5 or 6 million muslims living in the country that see their race being bombed in Afghanistan, with talks of widening the front.

So, the next time the US whines because they have to foot the bill of police actions, ask why they do it? In this case - obvious, the loss of 5000 civillians. Previously I think you'll find that mostly it centers around US financial policy. Strange that the US has such a strong interest in the oil-rich lands huh?

Of course we could write the support of Israel off the the extreme lobbying activites of the Jewish sectors. There is so much sway held with congress and senate by those chaps that America is practically a state of Israel. Now if I were Israeli/Jewish, I'd naturally think back and I'd do everything in my power to protect my people, my identity and my faith, that is their right under any civilised system, however I thin kit serves well to take the covers off the political system sometimes and see who is really driving the wheels.

Certainly the activity of the US in Afghanistan has let the Israelis trample all over the palestinians in recent months with total impunity.

-* !! S O L D !! *-
To the gentleman in the pink Tutu

peteb · Mar 11, 2002

Oh, and also let's not forget a lot of the 'policing' action is cleaning up their previous cocked up foreign policy, like training Bin Laden in the first place.

-* !! S O L D !! *-
To the gentleman in the pink Tutu

dhlucke · Mar 11, 2002

The USA can't win, but it's not this war I'm taking about.

Everyone wants us to do everything and whenever we're aggressive people complain and whenever we're isolationists a World War or some other crap breaks out. Bush wanted to issolate us. That didn't work out. Wilson wanted to issolate us. FDR wanted to issolate us. It never works.

It's a catch-22. No matter what we do, we can't please everyone. In the end we have to look out for ourselves. I can assure you that the USA will win this war.

Please don't lean on the French to try to make a point, that's just ridiculous.

As for people asking us to police the world, you're partially right and that pisses me off, but there are countless examples of where we ARE asked to police the world, including the middle east and the balkans.

If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?

peteb · Mar 11, 2002

The French was just one example, Britain has almost the same problem with a very high muslim population.

I seem to recall that the US wasn't alone in policing the Balkans, a good % of the military wasn't US. It was just unfortunate that the US were the only guys playing that were actually able to achieve anything worthwhile...

-* !! S O L D !! *-
To the gentleman in the pink Tutu

dhlucke · Mar 11, 2002

The French bother me a lot though. They have a lot of nerve. "Simplistic"? I liked Colin Powell's response.

All countries have a large population of muslims. This isn't about that though. It's about security and terrorism.

It will be interesting what happens in the near future, especially in the UK where they are split down the middle with regards to any action in Iraq.

If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?

k9955 · Mar 11, 2002

kusek
What needs to be emphasized is that we are supposed to LEARN from history and not make the same mistakes twice!!!
The Hitlers, Sadaams, and Bin Ladens need to be put out of business(dead) BEFORE they do such harm.
As an American, I sure wish our European and Asian friends would be on our side when it comes to taking care of Iraq.
It just seems like they are willing to do nothing and repeat the mistakes of the past.

Oh please even france helped in iraq oh and btw it want europe that supported Saddam during iran-iraq war.

k9955 · Mar 11, 2002

MeldarthX
Americans did nothing during the first part of the war? You need to go back and look at history, America kept Britian from falling by itself. Hitler did not want the US in the war until he had all of Europe under his control. It was US embargo of Japan that force Japan to bomb Pearl Harber.

US companies also supplied hitlers germany and all loans have been pais back

dhlucke
If I'm not mistaken, this is the reason why we don't pay our fees to the UN. I recall there being a big stink about this a few years ago and I believe these old debts were brought up and the issue was dropped. I might be mixing up a couple of things though.

US is payinf its debts(not fees) to the UN a little later for some reason it finds it pays too much.

Matisaro · Mar 11, 2002

Remember the fire in Yellowstone? That wouldn't of happened if the enviromentists hadn't tied the hands of the forest service in courts. Even their own sciencists warned that not clearing the underbrush, dead, and dieing trees would result in a major fires. We are still paying for that fire today.

Yeah, im sure the logging companies make tons of cash selling that dead underbrush.

::rolls eyes::

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Guest · Mar 11, 2002

was: AMD STEALS TECHNOLOGY!!!!!

check out this link:

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"AMD/VIA!...you are still the weakest link, good bye!"

Did you guys not kinda digress a bit here???

Techie2001
(Crazy Alien)
If it ain't broke, Don't fix it.

zengeos · Mar 11, 2002

Us?

Digress??

No way!

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!

slvr_phoenix · Mar 11, 2002

First off, I'd like to say that it has been cool to read such a long thread with no flaming. I'm glad that THG has improved so much.

Second off, I'd just like to take this moment to say that hereafter, everything I state in this post is my opinion: Clinton sucked. Bush Jr. sucks. Politicians suck. Government, while nice in concept, sucks in implementation.

Third, Clinton was hardly the first president to have an affair, and as far as affairs go, his was monumentally mild compared to presidents of the past. So why should it be suddenly so wrong for a president to act this way now?

Fourth, I'd like to remind any American's (or anyone else for that matter) that the 'freedom' America stands for has long ago been beaten to death and kicked repeatedly afterwords.

Freedom of speech ... so long as you adhere to the general guidelines of public broadcasting/printing and avoid libel, slander, and assault. If there is freedom of speech, why are there so many ways to be put into jail for saying things?

The right to bear arms ... so long as you don't conceal them, adhere to limitations on what is and is not legal, and go through regulations. Again, so many ways to go to jail for a 'freedom'.

Freedom of religion, so long as your religion adheres to specific moral conduct standards, and even then many fundamentalist christians will try to take away the right to practice any religion but christianity.

Equal Opportunity ... to the point where minorities are reserved positions that equally (if not superiorly) educated/trained/qualified majorities are denied because of their race/gender/age. So much for the word equal.

Inalienable rights including life ... so long as you don't commit any crimes, liberty ... so long as you don't do anything that the government has regulated, and happiness ... so long as that happiness doesn't involve doing anything illegal, no matter how harmless to the public it may be. (Personal drug use only in your own home is only harming yourself. Public nudity never hurt anyone. Same gender marriages only increase the amount of love in the world. Etc., etc.)

I could go on and on, but I think my point is pretty clear that 'freedom' in America is anything but freedom, and liberty (The condition of being free from restriction or control. The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one's own choosing.) has been a right that American's may never have had. American citizens have been handing over civil liberties piece by piece since the dawn of America.

Americans, if you want to fight injustice, why not start with your own governmental system where 'democracy' has become just a farce and where the public has no more voice than man being strangled? America doesn't need to be parading around the world policing other countries. America needs to be working on itself. If it doesn't, one day soon America may find that it has less freedom and liberty than the very British government that it broke free from.

The American government was founded on the basis of democracy. It was based on the idea that the people decided what the government could and couldn't do. That the people decided what laws were put into place. That the people decided who was voted into the government. That the people had the power. Oh how quickly that concept was reversed completely.

When was the last time that you even chose who represented the presidential candidates for the Republican or Democratic parties? When was the last time that your Congressperson actually asked you how you felt about a certain bill? When was the last time that any representative of any branch of the government even listened to and considered your opinions?

Fourth: Since when are concepts like revenge, vengeance, and avenging something that should be condoned by any justgovernment? So someone killed thousands of civilians. Then you go kill thousands of civilians to 'avenge' those who you lost. Why should they not 'avenge' the civilians that they lost in your act of revenge? And then why should you not yet again avenge the new act of war? When does the cycle end? It ends when someone can step up and put the concept of revenge aside in the name of peace. It ends when justice is served by someone other than the injured party.

I'd just like to finish by saying that as an American citizen, I am greatly disappointed in my own country. And I don't just mean in my government. I mean in everybody who sits around complacantly allowing the government to rule itself and hands over their civil liberties like they were pieces of refuse not even worth holding on to. I remember a time when people thought for themselves and challenged the world with noble ideals for a better way. It is sad to see how all that effort went for naught.

P.S. If you agree with this post or not in part or whole matters not a whit to me. However, if it didn't even make you think a little, American or anyone else, then I feel sorry for you.

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dhlucke · Mar 11, 2002

Interesting. I do have to say this though: I could rant even longer about the problems in America than you could, but my rant on problems in other nations would take twice as long. I would never ever claim the USA is perfect or to be fair I would never be able to get through a conversation with an anti-american without agreeing with them on several points. However, when I compare our country to the many others that exist, and when I compare our gov't to others, we look pretty damn good. There's a reason people from every country come here.

Nonetheless, here...

I just went through a long ordeal in our legal system. It sucks. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong, it's all about who has more money for lawyers that cost $500/hr. It's capitalism at it's worst.

Health insurance? That's a joke. Insurance period is a joke in this country.

Public education? Please...

Energy policy? LOL

If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?

SEA OF GLASS!!!!!

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