Second Take: The Digg User Revolt

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RE: 10 Big Myths about copyright explained

Not exactly on point, but it might be helpful to read this article on Copyrights - and you'll see (hopefully) how the "laws" might apply here. Especially the part about fair use;
... Fair use is generally a short excerpt and almost always attributed. (One should not use much more of the work than is needed to make the commentary.) It should not harm the commercial value of the work -- in the sense of people no longer needing to buy it (which is another reason why reproduction of the entire work is a problem.) Famously, copying just 300 words from Gerald Ford's 200,000 word memoir for a magazine article was ruled as not fair use, in spite of it being very newsworthy, because it was the most important 300 words -- why he pardoned Nixon....
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I think the DMCA can argue that publishing (that what posting is ...) that code harmed the commercial value of the protected DVD's
 
some links, am I allowed to link?
~~~~
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=121866&page=6
http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/03/04
~~~~

I don't know anything, I don't pretend to know how this stuff works

locker codes do to probability work with some lockers!!!
07 50 23
53 49 34
45 58 12
25 27 32

I believe consumers should be able to have choices, if DVD replaces the old VHS than I think someone should be able to send in there old VHS and get at the cost of S&H + Material Production Cost (not boxed - because you already payed once), pay for the re-mastering instead of re-paying for the content.

Or all DVDs can come out costing $5, make piracy uneconomical.

Companies want you to repurchase something you like, Tapes were out, CDs & DVDs scratch.
Computers break (thanks M$) love that EULA, if a $50 Motherboard breaks that will cost you the price of a NEW vista OS as well.

A:

OPEN SOURCE: you don't have to bend over



How about offer credit ($10) for the movies you see in theater for purchasing on an optical disc format or online digitally.

Or rental stores allowing you to subtract the cost of the rental on a full purchase, (test driving).

And I should be able to play the movie I purchase on any piece of electronics that play it, I shouldn't have to buy a DVD, then buy a UMD, then purchase online, then like it so much that I must get the HD version.

anyways I'm using "the NUMBER" as instructions for 3D battle-space-ship copyright coldmast

BOOKs are better anyways.

~ maybe we should have encrypted books.
 
BOOKs are better anyways.
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Won't get any argument from me there. For the most part, I would much rather read, and they are much better entertainment value for the money as well.

Paperback Book: $6.99 - at least 12 hours of entertainment if I read straight through = around $0.60 an hour
Movie: $14.99+ (or $24.99 + for HD), for 2-3 hours of entertainment = around $5 to $12 an hour.

Thats not even counting the fact that a decent book is far more immersive than just about any movie.

I do agree in principal with just about everything you said. Thats why I pretty much do what I want with movies I buy. I have no problem moving an old VHS tape to a DVD (well, except that the picture sucks...), or making a backup copy of any content I own. If they want to come after me, let them.

I have said before and will say again that DRM is a fundamentally flawed concept that is nothing more than an inconvenience at best, and downright insulting at worst. Same thing with efforts at gun control and the TSA rules to fly. None of them accomplish anything other than to make certain people feel better and to inconvenience honest people.

Hell, if I could remember where I posted it, I would link to the thread where I discussed that software piracy is in many ways in MS's best interests, and that I wouldn't be surprised if they encouraged it.
 
The thing about these rules, is that they only inconvenience the people that are predisposed to following the rules in the first place. For the rest of humanity, its only a stone to step over. This is why I highly disagree with the way DRM is implemented. I don't disagree with the right of a company to make money off their product or to prevent others from stealing it, but not to this extent.
 
The thing about these rules, is that they only inconvenience the people that are predisposed to following the rules in the first place. For the rest of humanity, its only a stone to step over. This is why I highly disagree with the way DRM is implemented. I don't disagree with the right of a company to make money off their product or to prevent others from stealing it, but not to this extent.
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Exactly. I have seen exactly ZERO evidence that ANY type of DRM has EVER prevented anybody from making a pirated copy of anything. The only thing I've ever heard of it preventing is people playing games they paid for or making legitimate backups of CDs and DVDs they purchased.
 
And cost Sony market share in the MP3 player market

I can't wait till I have to go to HDTV and HDCP so I can buy a new PVR to record HDTV, for a limited storage time of course.

Maybe I wait for ULTRA SUPER MEGA DEFINITION featuring 4294967296 bit encryption so I can watch "Lawrence of Arabia" in quantum fuzzy logically remastered {which scans interpolates synthesizes extrapolates all the data in the movie and remakes it in FULL EMERGE 3D SURROUND glory!!!!!!}
 
See, I am perfectly fine with using my current SD PVR on Win XP or Linux. I am certainly not willing to deal with all the crap they are trying to put out just to view in HD.
 
Here's a funny thought that kinda relates to this:

Blu-ray and HD-DVD are in a format war...
Sony is a principal backer of Blu-ray and Toshiba is a principal backer of HD-DVD, and thus the war is often summed up to be Sony vs. Toshiba...
Blu-Ray is arguably winning the format war at the present time due largely to...
Sony PS3, which has been the cheapest Blu-ray player out, and coincidentally runs on the...
Cell microprocessor which was developed by STI, which is a joint venture or...
Sony, Toshiba, and IBM.

Did you ever get the feeling that they win and we lose either way?
 
"'its illegal, you dont get it, it's illegal. how many times do we need to go through this? how many times do we need to go through this? how many times?"

From my reading of the law, and it may be flawed, having the code DOES not equate to illegal. Decoding an HDDVD would be illegal, but having the code is NOT decoding an HDDVD.

It like the stupid laws about radar detectors... its ok to OWN one, but not have on on in your car...

The video segment to me was not well researched and added nothing worthy to the debate currently going on. Sorry guys, but it was amateur hour for this vid; Bikini News would likely do the topic more justice.
 
THG and Rob are correct in there stance. Although we may not like the law, as responsible citizen we have to follow them.
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There are times that being a responsible citizen actually means NOT following the established laws. For reference please see the revolutionary war.
 
Funny you should mention that. Most people in the South viewed the Civil War the same way. They paid dearly for it, and failed. Its all a matter of how much you are willing to risk for your "cause."
 
Umm.. last time I checked, it is not illegal to post an integer. Regardless of what it is capable of, it is not illegal, and never will be. It doesn't violate any kind of copyright laws, no "hacks" were involved, an integer is not a hack.

Rob, you claimed on this video review, that it was a wrong move for them to uncensor this number, because you claim it is illegal. If you have cleared your statement up somewhere in this topic, then by all means, ignore my statement. Regardless, no illegal acts occuring in the posting of this number, and as far as I know, there is nothing that it violates under the Digg terms of use.

This might help you understand where I'm coming from:
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/005229.php

They would have you believe that the key is a "component" or tool to circumvent their encryption. Now, had it been say a piece of code/software or something along those lines, then definitely this would be in violation of the DMCA. However, this is an integer. Numbers are not tools. They are not components. They are values.

And for those of you that still agree with the AACS, well here you go:
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=1155
You can own your own 128 bit integer too.
 
RE: 10 Big Myths about copyright explained

I think the DMCA can argue that publishing (that what posting is ...) that code harmed the commercial value of the protected DVD's
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I think that yes anything can be argued, but the decision of whether or not it is legal has not been proven nor do I think it is illegal in this incident.

Basically, the simple act of acknowledging and conforming to such strict and broad claims of copyright authoritativeness is partly to blame for for the increased hype and over-reaction by some that we must screen what the public writes (or re-writes) within a public forum intended to facilitate conversation and sharing of ideas... which imo infringes upon our rights...
iow's sometimes issues arise in which copyright cases are dramaticized and defined, that overshadow the reality that chances are slim posting random numbers however coincidental will be construed as copyright infringement.
 
Umm.. last time I checked, it is not illegal to post an integer. Regardless of what it is capable of, it is not illegal, and never will be. It doesn't violate any kind of copyright laws, no "hacks" were involved, an integer is not a hack.
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Last time I checked, it wasn't illegal to post bunch of words either. But to finally kill that bullshit analogy, it is illegal when those integers or words add up to something or are in a string that leads to something illegal. Say for instance instructions on how to make a bomb, or a letter asking for some one to die. Those are harmless words. Just in a string that leads to something harmful. And that is what's illegal.
 
Strings and integers are 2 entirely different things. Text has meaning that is meant to be interpreted. Integers, whether in hex, binary, decimal, octal, whatever, do not have an underlying interpretation. As the hex value in question is not meant to be interpreted as an ASCII value or some equivalent, you can't really compare it to strings of characters.

EDIT: I was kind of hoping that Rob meant, it is illegal to circumvent copy protection, and he wasn't refering to Digg not censoring that number. But with your posting, now I'm doubtful that that is the case.
 
Nope. I'm saying, that integers are not and cannot be tools or components. And AACS is saying they are.

If i was to post that number, and solely that number, say before you were aware of this topic, what would it mean to you? Nothing. A random value. This is what I'm refering to. You would in no way be able to interpret that value as circumvention for encryption with any kind of justification. Now if I had posted "Stop.", what would you think of that? It's only 5 characters. But immediately you know the meaning, as it is MEANT to be interpreted as a command to stop.

Now, say the article had explicitely conveyed HOW to use the integer, the article itself (NOT the integer) would be considered a tool or component, and would therefore be illegal.
 
I guess you could say the numerical system itself is a tool. But this particular integer? The best you could do is say that it is a tool to represent that exact quality, nothing less, nothing more. It cannot mean anything else. Does that make more sense?

In essence, AACS is saying that that particular integer is a tool to circumvent encryption. So, I could post an article containing just that integer, and they would claim that its a tool, and demand that my article be censored. Now, that does not make sense.

Ninja, I'm not sure what kind of reality you live in, but where I'm from, 09 F9 etc etc doesn't spell "HD DVD Circumvention".
 
You take everyone for a damn fool then. The string of integers was noted as a circumvention of HD-DVD DRM on Digg. On 9Down it was noted as a code to break the DRM lock. For you to keep pushing that it is essentially harmless..
 
See, that makes more sense now.

The thing is:

01 23 45 67 89 AB CD EF

is just an innocuous number.

However, if I post

01 23 45 67 89 AB CD EF

and say its the key to breaking an encryption code, thats a different story, which is open to interpretation.

Thats why there is such a huge debate in the first place.
 
Yes, WHEN paired up with other information, it then becomes more than integer. But there was censoring of images with the value imbedded in it, and other articles that were similar. And I disagree with claims that the integer itself is a tool for circumvention. It must have some kind of explanation along with it, otherwise it means nothing. I could post somewhere saying that my random number generator generated this value, and it ends up being that value, unlikely or not, I should not have my post censored.
 
I could post somewhere saying that my random number generator generated this value, and it ends up being that value, unlikely or not, I should not have my post censored.
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Your right, however, thats NOT how it was posted. It was posted as a key to the encryption.
 
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