Should we allow the rich to get richer?

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johnsonma

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http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/8766110-452/how-romney-grew-rich-by-plundering-companies.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/06/us-campaign-romney-bailout-idUSTRE8050LL20120106

Man you are in denial, research his business practices before you defend him. I'm not saying all his business dealings were this unethical but he is willing to ruin people to make a buck.
 

johnsonma

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http://www.ivarhagendoorn.com/blog/2007/11/12/private-equity-how-it-works

Use your gray matter OMG. It's kind of a racket to tell you the truth.
 

blackhawk1928

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Since you actually responded inside the quote, i couldn't "quote" the message so I copy/pasted into the quote board.

Maybe they will invest more to offset the reduced income? You can't predict what they will do, by the way foreign investment is much more important to America compared to domestic.

They will invest less, because historically they have. It makes perfect sense also. Investment is high risk for return, if taxes are getting to a ridiculous point then there will be no return on investment, because whatever you are investing into will not prosper.

Really, how do you know this?

History...

Their income and the income of their business's are two different things, just because they can't afford that car elevator they have been dreaming about doesn't mean they will have layoffs, lol!

Lots of private business owners put their personal income and earnings straight back into the business to grow it. Also, business exists for profit. The most efficient businesses are the ones that thrive and expand. If something is wasteful and cutting on profits, it will be removed.

Maybe they will get more for the tax write offs?

LOL

Your entire arguement can be summed up into:

Just because I got shot in my Heart does not mean that I am going to die.

It doesn't...but history and medical research have proven that its overwhelmingly likely.
 

johnsonma

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You must live in a different country, I was referring to the USA. What country are you talking about? You provide no context for your arguments. Completely ignored the logic of a couple of the rebuttals and then dismiss the entire argument based on history? Get out of here with that nonsense. Our capital gains tax is insanely low and corporate taxes are pretty fair as well, yet you think that raising it a little bit will be catastrophic to our economy?

You have completely bought into the rhetoric defending the "rich", provide me with sound economic reasoning and we can have a real discussion.

70% of our economy is based on the consumer industry. Tell me how a couple upticks in the percentage that the rich pay(which they should already be paying but avoid using loopholes) will erode this economy.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/10/07/would-raising-taxes-on-rich-hurt-the-economy.html
 

blackhawk1928

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Its not all about that, where will we stop?...90% taxes? 99% taxes?

The Rich for the most part do not avoid taxes through loopholes. Its some companies. The top few percent pay almost all of the revenue in the entire country. Capital gains tax is low to promote investment...the lower tax rate probably leads to a higher tax revenue, then again this battle isnt about revenue but about a personal hatred to the rich due to jealousy I think.

You have completely bought into the rhetoric or class warfare against the rich and that they are evil yet they are the ones keeping this country alive.

If you want the rich to pay higher taxes than its only fair that you Also support higher taxes to yourself or at least give a huge portion of your money to the government. If you disagree then you are a prime example of a true liberal...very generous when your long soggy hands are in somebody elses pocket eh?
 
From your link:
Generally, the effective tax rate paid by a business will differ from the statutory rate because of the effect of the graduated rate structures and the deductions and credits that are allowed for things like research & development. A company that can write off nearly all of its R&D is probably not all that interested in a lower statutory rate if their effective rate is in the teens. Effective tax rates can also be affective for analyzing corporate taxes because the statutory rate does not reflect who ultimately bears the burden of the tax. Shareholders bare the burden by lower dividends, consumers bare the burden by paying higher prices and employees also bare the burden with lower salaries, numerous studies say.

So John, what we are saying is right.

From your link:
Scholars have long documented that multinationals are adept at arranging their affairs to undo differences in taxation across countries. By shifting income from high-tax to low-tax countries through transfer pricing, using hybrid entities that are treated as corporations in some countries and flow-through entities in others, stripping profits from high-tax countries through intracompany financing, repatriating under favorable tax conditions, and other tax avoidance mechanisms, multinationals mitigate the impact of being headquartered in a high-tax state. Google’s famous rerouting its offshore rights to
intellectual property through two Irish subsidiaries, a Dutch subsidiary, and a Bermuda entity, lowered its total tax rate on foreign profits to just 2.4%, saving $3.1 billion over the last three years, Bloomberg reported last year.

Now here we see what the dems call evil, tax shelters, such as the Caymans

Again:
“Everyone likes to talk about the tax breaks that General Electric got and the taxes that Google paid last year, but these are outliers. Corporate tax reform needs to happen because marginal rates are too high and that is the rate you use to base your investment decisions on, not the 10% effective rate,” says Douglas Shackelford, a taxation and accounting professor at the University of North Carolina.

Now, when someone says it will discourage investment, this is exactly what we mean.
As for diversifying in a global market, it can help, but as I said, if you dont take care of the home guys, your money ends up overseas.
Thats the other things, that global markets bring, weakening of the dollar can be as well, and as I said, a tipping point investment of foreign monies, as they could go hand in hand.
So, TY for the link
 

johnsonma

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Long soggy hands, lmao! I already pay a higher percentage than the rich do in capital gains tax, so what do you mean by a huge portion when I give tens of thousands of dollars to them as it is? You have no idea about the corporate tax code or loopholes, there are literally thousands of them and every company takes advantage of them, you would be stupid not too.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0411/US-tax-bite-smaller-than-other-nations 90% hardly....

You are overreacting and its affecting your judgement, your absurd statements are proof of that. Regain you composure and do some research on taxes in America, especially corporate taxes and tax brackets throughout the world.
 

blackhawk1928

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You do not pay a higher percentage than the rich. Perhaps capital gains tax, not sure. However, the rich pay almost a 50% bonus tax and a 35% income tax. Not to mention they spend a lot. Rich pay millions, dozens of millions, hundreds of millions, and some even billions in taxes. Your few thousand mean not a damn thing. You are terribly misinformed on the taxes. You think income and capital gains tax is the only thing and you think that taxes are more important than tax revenue.

Do you know what tax revenue even is?

Did you know that decreasing taxes on corporations actually can and many times WILL increase tax revenue? Do you know why?

I'm trying to figure out what it is that you do not understand leading to your skewed opinions.

Why not fix tax loopholes so corporations pay what they are supposed instead of picking on a rich individuals. Corporations and Rich are two different things.
 

riser

Illustrious


What's wrong with being born into money if you continue the success? Isn't that why people came to America? To start new, work hard, and leave the next generation better off? Sounds like Romney's parents did that.
I hope to do that as well for my kids.

Why such anger towards them? Why not more respect? Romney doesn't appear to be some evil person out killing puppies. All that money does not appear to have corrupted him.. so why the disrespect towards wealthier people than you?
 
I laugh when people go on about them paying more than the rich, with all their breaks.
How bout you take your own deductions, and its %, and figure on what breaks people are getting,
Claim anyone?
Tax break
House?
Can be tax break
Medical?
High enough, can be tax break.
Theres more but some wont look in their own back yard first
 

musical marv

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Like Bain capital where he bought the small business and turned them around when they were losing profits and resold them again to make more money.he is a real winner Romney! Let him stay in the private sector!
 

wanamingo

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I was posting links to Stephen King's Op Ed's before it was cool.
 

wanamingo

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But then why make taxes compulsory at all?

Do you think taxes and charity go hand in hand? If I want my money spent Im not going to give it to the government Im going to give it to a school or organization.

Even George Washington knew that taxes sucked for everyone.

“It is essential that you should practically bear in mind that towards the payment of debts there must be revenue; that to have revenue there must be taxes; that no taxes can be devised which are not more or less inconvenient and unpleasant.”
 

wanamingo

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Why not make all taxes voluntary then?

Show me an example of a country that has a growing divide between the poorest and the wealthiest and then prospered because taxation in the higher income brackets was lower and voluntary after that.

Why cant I get the same effective tax rate as someone who made 100 million dollars last year? And then if I feel like it I can pay out more if I wanted to. It just seems to me that the rhetoric of conservatives is tax the poor and make it compulsory and let the rich decide what is a fair tax rate.

 

johnsonma

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Lol...too easy. Look up capital gains tax, I do pay a higher percentage on my income tax. If someone makes all their money through capital gains then I effectively pay more in taxes then them. Not entirely sure why you think I'm grouping the rich individual with the corporation but whatever you say there pal.

If your referring to the laffer curve, your wrong in your statement about revenue. I am all for fixing the loopholes, not the R&D credits though, innovation for business is imperative to success.
 

johnsonma

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Just because I dislike Romney for his business practices doesn't mean I dislike all wealthier people. I will be honest though, I would respect a person who worked his way to success than someone who was handed pocket aces when he was born.
 

johnsonma

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If someone makes all their money through investments (cough cough Romney). Then they pay less in taxes than I do on my income taxes.
 

johnsonma

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Look at it by the percentage OMG. Just because he pays more overall doesn't mean he is paying the same share.
 

johnsonma

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True but then what about the money they make form investing the money, did they already pay taxes on that as well?