Skyrim Developer Says PC Development is a Headache

[amk-aka-Phantom]

Well I don't really like to start a discussion with YOU, I've been reading your comments on this article and Skyrim PC performance benchmark, you should learn to calm down, and then reply to other people's comments! I can't start a discussion with you simply because you are annoying! I don't feel obligated to teach anything to someone with your attitude !

I say it again, you have absolutely no clue where Direct3D and OpenGL fit into the engine's architecture! an engine is not built only and only using DirectX/OpenGL! You're just talking out of your arse, I'm sure you know it yourself very well!

I admit it, it's amusing to read your comments, but it's a pain in the arse to engage in a discussion with you!

Do your homework, at least read some articles on the internet!! then send me a private message, only then I will "enlighten" you!

until then, happy trolling !

I never said that the engine is built entirely on DX/OpenGL. I just said that Bethesda's claim of "multiple hardware configurations" is FOS since that's what DX/OpenGL and GPU drivers take care of.

I honestly don't care whether you feel like I do know about game engines or not. I don't - I'm not a game dev - but I have enough common sense and computing experience to claim that Bethesda is FOS on this one. And I don't think you know something either, otherwise you'd already spit it out. Your previous personal attacks on me ("some kid with a little Java experience comments on game engines!!") show that you're here only for trolling and you don't really bother to understand other people's POVs (my little Java experience was completely irrelevant there, while the Mindstorms analogy was).

Umm... ME calm down? Exactly how am I annoying? Looking at my comments' rating, I'd say exactly the opposite. Happy trolling to YOU, mister.

 

[FulmeR]

I think we all know that PC development is indeed a lot more intensive then the consoles. But hats off to these developers for biting the bullet and making YET ANOTHER KICK A$$ GAME!!!

PLEASE DONT SELL OUT LIKE SO MANY OTHER COMPANIES AND TURN YOUR BACKS ON THE PLATFORM THAT GAVE YOU YOUR START!

 

[Guest]

and the infinite number of hardware configurations
Assume the following is the average PC and you'll be fine
- 3GHz Dualcore
- 8800GT(or ATI equivalent) with drivers that haven't been updated in a year
- 2GB RAM
- Win XP

 

[jimmysmitty]

[citation][nom]amk-aka-phantom[/nom]Oh STFU, it's possible on consoles, as well!!I cannot imagine a TES game without mods. It'd be an incomplete experience - I remember all the mods I had in Morrowind, they enhanced the game experience so much!BS, BS, BS! You know, somehow The Witcher 2 does NOT have any issues like that and it's one of the best-looking and most stable games I've played![/citation]

I agree. But the thing is that they are right. Its hard to dev for every possible config out there. But thats why you need to have beta playtesters who are real people with many different configs. Do it kind of like VALVe is doing with TF2. Have an open Beta.

Still, PC developing takes time. And if its done right, its well worth it.

 

[jdwii]

Maybe then need to hire better software engineers and stop being cheap. The fact that this game uses so much CPU power and only uses 2 cores is retarded even GTA4 is better.


Oh yeah and no one deserve as much money as CEO's get not one of them deserves that much money maybe they should cut back instead of caring about people enjoying their creation for free. That's why i hate these people so much This all reminds me about that south park episode when they said stealing music online isn't that big of a deal. Its just as funny

 

[rohitbaran]

Piracy is an excuse to shun PC development, since console sales have been much higher. Piracy is on consoles too and I don't think that pirates will ever be discouraged from piracy no matter what DRM anyone tries. So shut up devs and give us good games and we will gladly give you our money. Don't expect to churn out something half tested like rage and expect us to just ignore it.

 

[stemnin]

Was this before or after the xbox's people discovered texture problem? Bethesda makes great games, but we all know they're buggy as hell on release. Anyway, Steam has had over 250 000 concurrent users playing Skyrim earlier.. just check out steam tracker. That's quite a bit of headaches..

 

[hypetype15]

so you expecting you will just sit down and let the pc develop it self?...you a Crack headed

 

[ojas]

[citation][nom]amk-aka-phantom[/nom]I know all the prices BS, I live in India Don't agree about CPUs prices, Core i5 and i7-2600/K are like $50 overpriced here.Ah, okay... I thought you meant ALL titles. Because I DID look up ME3 preorder and it was NOT $20[/citation]

You DO??? lol i thought you lived in the Gulf...hahaha i feel like such an ass, converting rupees to dollars now...and sending you a link to flipkart! lmao.

eh? not by much, check this out. Only 1300 more than US prices by our current sad exchange rate....which isn't very bad, around 10% more, which is fair considering that's what the approx import tax SHOULD be on electronics. Even the 2600k is about 1500 more...again, 10% up from the US price...i'm not saying that's great, it sucks, but still better than a Llano selling for 8-9k...or a 460/6850 selling for 10k+...OR THE 580 selling for 30k???? ($600, seriously?).

Anyway...i5 2400 prices are about 1000 more on the same site...though the i3 2100 prices are up (from here in delhi at least) by about 800...which is strange. So procs are not that expensive...graphics card prices are a pain

EDIT: I just remembered. According to the customs site, processor imports should be free of tax, with or without memories, timing circuits, etc. This effectively means that graphics cards shouldn't be taxed either. So i guess the 10% we're seeing here is just profit...

 

[kaisellgren]

How come are drivers an issue? If Rage checked your AMD/NVIDIA driver version prior to launching the game and forced you to quit before an update, almost no PC complaints would have raised.

DirectX abstracts out differences between graphics cards. It does not matter if it's HD 6690 or some GTX 580 unless you are relying on specific card features which you should not without proper fallbacks.

Besides, any modern PC card should be better than that NVIDIA 7800 series GPU in PS3 or the equivalent in 360, so there should not be any need for hacky card specific code or features. Just use what DirectX 11 gives you, it's better than OpenGL ES 2.0 in PS3 like Carmack said.

 

[amk-aka-Phantom]

You DO??? lol i thought you lived in the Gulf...hahaha i feel like such an ass, converting rupees to dollars now...and sending you a link to flipkart! lmao.

eh? not by much, check this out. Only 1300 more than US prices by our current sad exchange rate....which isn't very bad, around 10% more, which is fair considering that's what the approx import tax SHOULD be on electronics. Even the 2600k is about 1500 more...again, 10% up from the US price...i'm not saying that's great, it sucks, but still better than a Llano selling for 8-9k...or a 460/6850 selling for 10k+...OR THE 580 selling for 30k???? ($600, seriously?).

Anyway...i5 2400 prices are about 1000 more on the same site...though the i3 2100 prices are up (from here in delhi at least) by about 800...which is strange. So procs are not that expensive...graphics card prices are a pain

EDIT: I just remembered. According to the customs site, processor imports should be free of tax, with or without memories, timing circuits, etc. This effectively means that graphics cards shouldn't be taxed either. So i guess the 10% we're seeing here is just profit...

Prices suck, GTX 560 Ti is still 15K, which is $305, gimme a break, I want SLI!

BTW, The IT Depot kicks ass! Recommend to all Indian customers. Good prices, polite and supportive staff, regular email updates, swift delivery and wide selection... this is unbelievable for India! I saved Rs. 2000 by buying my new cabinet there instead of ordering from the local shop. Imma run this shop outta business, switch everyone to IT Depot instead, I have that kind of power

 

[ojas]

[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]Prices suck, GTX 560 Ti is still 15K, which is $305, gimme a break, I want SLI!BTW, The IT Depot kicks ass! Recommend to all Indian customers. Good prices, polite and supportive staff, regular email updates, swift delivery and wide selection... this is unbelievable for India! I saved Rs. 2000 by buying my new cabinet there instead of ordering from the local shop. Imma run this shop outta business, switch everyone to IT Depot instead, I have that kind of power[/citation]
That's true...the 560 Ti's are too expensive...dude, the 550 Ti! it sells for 8k! that's just too close to the 460,6850,6870 and 560!
Yup IT Depot seems good, i just don't know how much they'll charge as shipping to the north...where do you live though?
There's this new startup kind of thing in Delhi, ratetorate.in. I kind of met that guy looking for a HDD and he was just setting his office up...been kind of sending him ideas of what's good and what's bad (he's a software dude)...links to Tom's articles and newegg pages...trying to get similar prices/products here up north...that way it'll be cool, we could have ratetorate up north with IT Depot down south...setting standards for other companies...

 

[amk-aka-Phantom]

That's true...the 560 Ti's are too expensive...dude, the 550 Ti! it sells for 8k! that's just too close to the 460,6850,6870 and 560!
Yup IT Depot seems good, i just don't know how much they'll charge as shipping to the north...where do you live though?
There's this new startup kind of thing in Delhi, ratetorate.in. I kind of met that guy looking for a HDD and he was just setting his office up...been kind of sending him ideas of what's good and what's bad (he's a software dude)...links to Tom's articles and newegg pages...trying to get similar prices/products here up north...that way it'll be cool, we could have ratetorate up north with IT Depot down south...setting standards for other companies...

Not far from Chennai... not disclosing any further In addition to Rs. 7160 for the case I paid extra 198 for netbanking tax and 300 for shipping... I suspect that they shipping rates are fixed, but's it's easy to check - make an account there, register an address and put something in the shopping cart, then proceed to checkout and check the shipping charges, they'll be calculated & shown before the money transfer, so you can experiment all you like

ratetorate.in doesn't have such wide selection, but the prices seem reasonable for India... IT Depot totally sets the standard, I'm going to order every component that doesn't need warranty (cases, cooling, CPUs, etc.) from them. My local hardware shop is good, too, but their dominance in the area allows them to set ridiculous prices for rare hardware (read: all cooling, cases and some GPUs) and I'm not fine with that.

Problem with finding a second 560 Ti here would be the model... The IT Depot doesn't have the correct 560 Ti (Twin Frozr II OC 880 MHz) and the local shop doesn't realize there might be more than one model of the same card from the same manufacturer (MSI has like what, 3 560 Ti models?) - they already found a SOC 560 Ti Hawk for me (950 MHz) and while it comes at a "reasonable" 15k, it won't do for my SLI, and getting them to find a card by clock frequency is impossible!

 

[neiroatopelcc]

The solution to piracy is making the game worth the asking price. Which all of betheda's games (that I've tried) have been so far. This tactic obviously won't work for EA who don't bother with quality, but it would solve their problem with piracy.

 

[nhat11]

[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]Oh STFU, it's possible on consoles, as well!!I cannot imagine a TES game without mods. It'd be an incomplete experience - I remember all the mods I had in Morrowind, they enhanced the game experience so much!BS, BS, BS! You know, somehow The Witcher 2 does NOT have any issues like that and it's one of the best-looking and most stable games I've played![/citation]

O wow you really don't know anything about being a programmer and the differences between console and PC architectures.

 

[amk-aka-Phantom]

O wow you really don't know anything about being a programmer and the differences between console and PC architectures.

And you derived that from my post that you quoted... how? :lol: The facts I've listed are known to EVERYONE. No mods on console TES, TES without mods is cool but not cool enough, TW2 doesn't have issues like the ones RAGE had and looks great. You don't need to know ANYTHING to list those facts.

And if YOU are that knowledgeable... why don't YOU tell us about it?

 

[RADIO_ACTIVE]

My job has its headaches to..... get over it

 

[bigdragon]

Developing for the PC is very very easy. The problem comes in picking which frameworks and services to use. There are so many to choose from that it's kind of information overload for development shops. Then there are little tweaks to apply for some niche situations. It's no big deal really.

I think what this article speaks to is more of the problem of having to port your product to so many platforms. It's tedious to port. Developing for 3 significantly different systems is no walk in the park. Honestly, I'm hoping Sony sits out on the next generation. I don't think we'd see nearly the same amount of PC complaints from developers if they were just going between a Microsoft console and the PC.

 

[ojas]

[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]Not far from Chennai... not disclosing any further In addition to Rs. 7160 for the case I paid extra 198 for netbanking tax and 300 for shipping... I suspect that they shipping rates are fixed, but's it's easy to check - make an account there, register an address and put something in the shopping cart, then proceed to checkout and check the shipping charges, they'll be calculated & shown before the money transfer, so you can experiment all you like ratetorate.in doesn't have such wide selection, but the prices seem reasonable for India... IT Depot totally sets the standard, I'm going to order every component that doesn't need warranty (cases, cooling, CPUs, etc.) from them. My local hardware shop is good, too, but their dominance in the area allows them to set ridiculous prices for rare hardware (read: all cooling, cases and some GPUs) and I'm not fine with that.Problem with finding a second 560 Ti here would be the model... The IT Depot doesn't have the correct 560 Ti (Twin Frozr II OC 880 MHz) and the local shop doesn't realize there might be more than one model of the same card from the same manufacturer (MSI has like what, 3 560 Ti models?) - they already found a SOC 560 Ti Hawk for me (950 MHz) and while it comes at a "reasonable" 15k, it won't do for my SLI, and getting them to find a card by clock frequency is impossible![/citation]

All right wont ask any further

Was planning to get a case from the IT Depot in december...but then total would have ended up around the same as you paid...maybe more actually...was thinking about the HAF 912 Advanced...sexy thing...it feels great to know that Cooler Master produced a special 912 for Asia
Anyway, asked the ratetorate guy if he can arrange it at similar prices and he was like yeah...so i may not end up paying for shipping and stuff...they don't have too much stuff i know...working with them on that...hopefully by sometime next year they'll have some decent stuff...

I don't have any local shop, closest is nehru place (delhi). That's just filled with electronics shops. it's soooo overcrowded and a total pain to get the right stuff, they're incredibly vague about what they have. Similar to what you describe. Don't know there could be more variety. Plus a lot of their stuff is from iBall, intex and zebronics. Totally hardcore stuff lol.

check on www.ebay.in or www.theitwares.com...this itwares is in mumbai btw...on ebay there's this store, overclockers zone or something...they're calcutta based...another mumbai shop is primeabgb.com...these are all the e-tail shops i know of...

 

[amk-aka-Phantom]

All right wont ask any further

Was planning to get a case from the IT Depot in december...but then total would have ended up around the same as you paid...maybe more actually...was thinking about the HAF 912 Advanced...sexy thing...it feels great to know that Cooler Master produced a special 912 for Asia
Anyway, asked the ratetorate guy if he can arrange it at similar prices and he was like yeah...so i may not end up paying for shipping and stuff...they don't have too much stuff i know...working with them on that...hopefully by sometime next year they'll have some decent stuff...

I don't have any local shop, closest is nehru place (delhi). That's just filled with electronics shops. it's soooo overcrowded and a total pain to get the right stuff, they're incredibly vague about what they have. Similar to what you describe. Don't know there could be more variety. Plus a lot of their stuff is from iBall, intex and zebronics. Totally hardcore stuff lol.

check on www.ebay.in or www.theitwares.com...this itwares is in mumbai btw...on ebay there's this store, overclockers zone or something...they're calcutta based...another mumbai shop is primeabgb.com...these are all the e-tail shops i know of...

Ugh... HAF? Really? Can't stand the looks. I think you can do better for the price.

 

[neiroatopelcc]

Ugh... HAF? Really? Can't stand the looks. I think you can do better for the price.

My best friend's got a haf 932 or something like that .. not the worst looking thing, but I'd agree. One can do better.

I'm making my own. Mats so far are estimated at 67€ plus 32 bolts and 15 motherboard stands
Here some inventor pictures (solved the psu placement issue after making those last week)

 

[nocturnal7x]

Oblivion was bigger and sold better on PC by a lot. No excuse why this game is not built from the ground up for PC, then poorly ported to consoles. Give those people and their shitty hardware the crappy game for once. Why pay for a console game when I want a PC game? I will buy it when its 20 bucks...

Fuck, unigen sanctuary is a testament to what scalability in an engine can do. That thing could run on xbox with DX9 quality, or run max on my PC with full blown DX11.

Its not that hard you whiny bitches.

 

[Guest]

Their console versions of Skyrim are just as bugged out as the PC version.

Guess it's all those variations in 360 and PS3 hardware?

 

[teodoreh]

Consoles don't have piracy? And Windows based PCs don't have DirectX universal libraries? I guess this guy hopes we could go back to Z80 64k machines with no upgrades, no different configurations, no more problems!

 

[Jargon]

I have played skyrim on a ps3 and have had freezes, lockups, and slow downs.

On the pc I have been playing it on I have had freezes, lockups but it never slowed down. No drop in frame rate. And it didn't do it as often on the pc.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the pc was more stable. Why ?????????