(Spoil me) Melee characters late game

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Hi there!

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I'm writing on behalf of my blind girlfriend. She's getting really good
at ADOM! (btw, THANKS, Vladimir!!!). She has had her third character
past the ToEF by now (although no victory so far) and is looking for a
change. So far, she has had her best games with casty-types
(Wiz/Elementalists) and is wondering how to get past the Earth Temple
without Death Ray *grins feebly* She had a gnomish monk recently, but
quit that frustratedly when not getting past the ToEF. So she went back
to casters. Now my question:
What are things to keep in mind when going nearly pure melee? (Barb,
Beastfighter, Monk?) Any special Equipment (except the obvious Eternium
or Crystal extras)? Maybe some hints on high DV/PV enemies (especially
the temple guardians?)
We know that there's the Guidebook around, but we'd like to collect more
wisdom than the Guidebook could offer alone, so some insight would be
wonderful. Thanks in advance.

Christian "BlackFurredBeast" Pohl

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Christian Pohl wrote:
> Hi there!
>
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> I'm writing on behalf of my blind girlfriend. She's getting really good
> at ADOM! (btw, THANKS, Vladimir!!!). She has had her third character
> past the ToEF by now (although no victory so far) and is looking for a
> change. So far, she has had her best games with casty-types
> (Wiz/Elementalists) and is wondering how to get past the Earth Temple
> without Death Ray *grins feebly* She had a gnomish monk recently, but
> quit that frustratedly when not getting past the ToEF. So she went back
> to casters. Now my question:
> What are things to keep in mind when going nearly pure melee? (Barb,
> Beastfighter, Monk?) Any special Equipment (except the obvious Eternium
> or Crystal extras)? Maybe some hints on high DV/PV enemies (especially
> the temple guardians?)

Tips for pure melee... here's #1: *don't* play pure melee. Use missiles.
Use the hell out of them. That's imperative. Pick up a (cross)bow. Avoid
rocks, though. Even crude knives and boomerangs/scurgari probably aren't
a great choice for a developing player. Early on, however, they might be
a good choice just in case you run into karmic lizards, jellies, or
anything else you don't want to touch.

Avoid two-handed weapons, even quarterstaves. Stick with shields and
one-handed weapons. Get that DV up. Use your Tactics; don't fight
dangerous creatures too aggressively.

Spears give good DV, sure, but they are generally mediocre as melee
weapons go. Swords are a decent choice for one-handed melee; many swords
will be generated in the game, and so the chance of getting a great one
is better. If you scum for crude spears, however, this point is moot.

Poison... poison really tough stuff if you can. You can poison really
nasty monsters like molochs, balors, and wyrms with wands of poison. Or
you can dip your melee weapon or missiles into potions of poison. Poison
is cumulative, so more poison means faster death. If the creature is
giving you a hard time, you can run off somewhere and let the poison
take care of business.

The Temple Guardians, other than Yulgash, are formidable melee
opponents, and should not be taken in close combat until they're very
close to death. This is where missiles come in very handy. Poison also
works against the three earlier Guardians (the Ancient Stone Beast is
immune, I believe, and Nuurag-Vaarn has an annoying tendency to shrug
off bolts (not just poison)). The ACW and NV are also threats at range,
but it is much better to fight them at range than in melee. Webs can be
used against any of the guardians (in the case of NV, you have to web
him in a trap-free area). Yulgash is not a threat in himself, but he can
summon some nasty stuff if he feels like it. Take him down quickly; he
is not dangerous in melee for a PC that has made it that far with
reasonable experience. He and the Snake from Beyond are also helpless in
darkness.

Remember that the Air Temple has electrically charged air. These charges
will harm a PC that doesn't have good resistance. They'll also destroy
just about anything that isn't metal (or crystal, or an artifact, etc.).

A good way to learn strategies for dealing with the later portions of
the game is by looking at YAVPs in the group. Google some and check them
out. In fact, I just posted one. Look it over, and ask questions about
any specific strategies you'd like to know more about while it's still
relatively fresh in my mind. That PC was an elementalist, but I played a
lot of Very Aggressive melee, so it might still be relevant.

> We know that there's the Guidebook around, but we'd like to collect more
> wisdom than the Guidebook could offer alone, so some insight would be
> wonderful. Thanks in advance.

Wisdom... I shouldn't be posting this, then. Anyway, you're welcome.

--
Curry Bucket's Controversial Web Presence:
The Birthplace of Teenage Angst
http://chat.carleton.ca/~jsingh3/
or http://www.currybucket.cjb.net/

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Josh Singh wrote:
> Christian Pohl wrote:
>
>> Hi there!
>>
>> t
>> h
>> i
>> s
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>> h
>> e
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>> s
>> p
>> o
>> i
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<snip advice>

> A good way to learn strategies for dealing with the later portions of
> the game is by looking at YAVPs in the group. Google some and check them
> out. In fact, I just posted one. Look it over, and ask questions about
> any specific strategies you'd like to know more about while it's still
> relatively fresh in my mind. That PC was an elementalist, but I played a
> lot of Very Aggressive melee, so it might still be relevant.
>

I've read it. Makes for damn fine reading, and entertainment too.
Christian "BlackFurredBeast" Pohl

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Josh Singh wrote:
> Christian Pohl wrote:
>
>> Hi there!
>>
>> t
>> h
>> i
>> s
>>
>> i
>> s
>>
>> t
>> h
>> e
>>
>> s
>> p
>> o
>> i
>> l
>> e
>> r
>>
>> s
>> p
>> a
>> c
>> e
>>
>> What are things to keep in mind when going nearly pure melee? (Barb,
>> Beastfighter, Monk?) Any special Equipment (except the obvious
>> Eternium or Crystal extras)? Maybe some hints on high DV/PV enemies
>> (especially the temple guardians?)

[Snip most of Josh's reply]

I agree entirely with almost anything Josh said, except:

> Spears give good DV, sure, but they are generally mediocre as melee
> weapons go. Swords are a decent choice for one-handed melee; many swords
> will be generated in the game, and so the chance of getting a great one
> is better. If you scum for crude spears, however, this point is moot.

I've found polearms more than sufficient and always go for them.
Initially, crude spears are among the better weapon types, and later on,
you're bound to find an eternium spear sooner or later which is more
than adequate.

Malte

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

How does someone who is blind play ADOM. I'm just wondering.. (excuse
my bluntness)

-Joel

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Josh Singh <jGoOsh.AsWiAnYgh@gmail.comikaze> wrote in
news😀_mdnaPEe_f1dJ_fRVn-vw@rogers.com:


>>
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>
> Tips for pure melee... here's #1: *don't* play pure melee. Use
> missiles. Use the hell out of them. That's imperative. Pick up a
> (cross)bow. Avoid rocks, though.

Well, a rock in the missile slot s certainly better than nothing, and I'm
not going to say that you would dispute that, however, rocks have a certain
attraction in that it is possible to generation literally hundreds of them
with one single spell, which certainly can't be said for other types of
ammo. Being able to create such ludicrous amounts allows one to put massive
stacks of them in the slot, thus saving time in combat. Thrown rocks are
not the best choice for missile weapon, but they can be surprisingly
effective with the right talents and the find weakness skill - if nothing
else my first YAVP was a result of using thrown rocks almost to the
exclusion of any other missile weapon.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

bork bork bork Malte Helmert bork 12:27:59 PM bork 2/4/2005 bork bork:

> Josh Singh wrote:
> > Christian Pohl wrote:
> >
> >> Hi there!
> > >
> >> t
> >> h
> >> i
> >> s
> > >
> >> i
> >> s
> > >
> >> t
> >> h
> >> e
> > >
> >> s
> >> p
> >> o
> >> i
> >> l
> >> e
> >> r
> > >
> >> s
> >> p
> >> a
> >> c
> >> e
> > >
> >> What are things to keep in mind when going nearly pure melee? (Barb,
> >> Beastfighter, Monk?) Any special Equipment (except the obvious
> >> Eternium or Crystal extras)? Maybe some hints on high DV/PV enemies
> >> (especially the temple guardians?)
>
> [Snip most of Josh's reply]
>
> I agree entirely with almost anything Josh said, except:
>
> > Spears give good DV, sure, but they are generally mediocre as melee
> > weapons go. Swords are a decent choice for one-handed melee; many swords
> > will be generated in the game, and so the chance of getting a great one
> > is better. If you scum for crude spears, however, this point is moot.
>
> I've found polearms more than sufficient and always go for them. Initially,
> crude spears are among the better weapon types, and later on, you're bound
> to find an eternium spear sooner or later which is more than adequate.
>
> Malte

If you have patience enough for scumming, crude spears have the advantage
that you can generate huge quantities of them by milking certain types of
huge quantities of orcs (orc scorchers at the very least), and orcs in turn
are frequent variants for vaults and tension rooms. With a high enough
quantity, the chances of one of those spears being a really neat ego type
become quite good.

I don't have any numbers to prove it, but my intuition is that the to-hit and
damage benefits of, say, axes (which can also be milked, this time from
gnolls, which likewise are common inhabitants of vaults and tension rooms)
gets lost in the shuffle compared to the DV benefit of spears.

Erik

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

anxious triffid wrote:
> Josh Singh <jGoOsh.AsWiAnYgh@gmail.comikaze> wrote in
> news😀_mdnaPEe_f1dJ_fRVn-vw@rogers.com:
>
>
>
>>>t
>>>h
>>>i
>>>s
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>>>e
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>>>p
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>>
>>Tips for pure melee... here's #1: *don't* play pure melee. Use
>>missiles. Use the hell out of them. That's imperative. Pick up a
>>(cross)bow. Avoid rocks, though.
>
> Well, a rock in the missile slot s certainly better than nothing, and I'm
> not going to say that you would dispute that, however, rocks have a certain
> attraction in that it is possible to generation literally hundreds of them
> with one single spell, which certainly can't be said for other types of
> ammo. Being able to create such ludicrous amounts allows one to put massive
> stacks of them in the slot, thus saving time in combat. Thrown rocks are
> not the best choice for missile weapon, but they can be surprisingly
> effective with the right talents and the find weakness skill - if nothing
> else my first YAVP was a result of using thrown rocks almost to the
> exclusion of any other missile weapon.

With some experience, arrows are plenty as well, though. You don't get
thousands, but you don't need them anyway. Compared to rocks, they have
the advantage of being much lighter, having higher damage, and most
importantly having much more slaying ammunition available. I'd only rely
on rocks in the early game, when nothing else is availble.

Malte

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Joel Valleroy wrote:
> How does someone who is blind play ADOM. I'm just wondering.. (excuse
> my bluntness)

Well you don't learn without asking questions.

Anyway, they have to use a Braille reader. How one of those works, I
can't tell you. I've never seen one personally (no joke intended here).

--
Curry Bucket's Controversial Web Presence:
The Birthplace of Teenage Angst
http://chat.carleton.ca/~jsingh3/
or http://www.currybucket.cjb.net/

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Josh Singh wrote:
> Joel Valleroy wrote:
>
>> How does someone who is blind play ADOM. I'm just wondering.. (excuse
>> my bluntness)
>
> Well you don't learn without asking questions.
>
> Anyway, they have to use a Braille reader. How one of those works, I
> can't tell you. I've never seen one personally (no joke intended here).

Also, IIRC Vladimir made a specially modified ADOMBot or added
features or something to make it easier - thinks like special "sign"
items that could be dropped to mark locations, and making the walk
command stop rather than automatically turning corners.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

This is Joel Valleroy for forever:
>
> How does someone who is blind play ADOM. I'm just wondering.. (excuse
> my bluntness)

Using a screen reader program to "read" the game screen.

[]s
--
Chaos Master®, posting from Canoas, Brazil - 29.55° S / 51.11° W / GMT-
2h / 15m

"He [Babya] is like the Energizer Bunny of hopeless newsgroup
posting....or should that be Energizer bBunny"
- "ceed" on alt.comp.freeware, 24/1/2005

(to some groups: Yes, I use Windows and MS Office. So what?)

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Josh Singh wrote:
> Joel Valleroy wrote:
>
>> How does someone who is blind play ADOM. I'm just wondering.. (excuse
>> my bluntness)
>
>
> Well you don't learn without asking questions.
>
> Anyway, they have to use a Braille reader. How one of those works, I
> can't tell you. I've never seen one personally (no joke intended here).
>

Sorry to contradict you, Josh.

My girlfriend uses JAWS, a screen-reader software which is basically a
very sophisticated text-to-speech system. Thanks do ADOM's verbosity
(especially when bumping into walls, among other things) it is very
playable for her. My girlfriend uses a slightly patched Winbeta4 version
(which stops walk-mode at corners, so she won't get lost) and manages to
play it nearly independently from a sighted "helper" like me 🙂
Further, if she needs to find something specific, she simply uses the
'l'ook command. Once again, ADOM's verbose descriptions work very well.
Only once in a while when she misses steps she asks for help, but that
has decreased over the last few weeks to almost zero. It's scary just
_how_ good she is. The only room/corridor-configurations that drive her
mad are something like this (hopefully it wraps good)

################################################
.................................................
####..>..#############....<..###################
#.....# #.......#
####### #########

since, if she does not pay attention, she might pass both rooms by and
spend an eternity on the level looking for the stairs 🙂
Of course, she needs a little more time per level than the average
sighted player, but she doesn't mind, since ADOM is one of the few
computer games (and the only RPG) she can play.

Cheers
Christian "BlackFurredBeast" Pohl