Start Menu May Arrive in Windows 8.1 Update 3

[AGTDenton]

Those that have been with Microsoft through the 90's and up until Windows 7 will find the next era of the company very different to what they've been used to. The current CEO is going to take them to the cloud in an aggressive manor. He will be biased towards attaining the cloud of tomorrow. They just couldn't give a real damn about the Start Menu, it's minor in their grand scheme of change.

 

[MisterZ]

Huh? People are still using Windows 8? I've been so busy using Windows 7 I forgot (or was that, cared?) that 8 even existed.

 

[Urzu1000]

Trying new things is fine, but the idea of cloud irks me. It's odd not having my data with me. It feels insecure, oddly enough. I suppose though, we can take this the same way that people from long ago took with currency and banking. As much as you feel nervous trading your pile of gold for someone else to hold while they give you paper, it becomes normal eventually.

I'll stick to storing all my data locally.

As for the start button (got a little off topic), I believe it's a minor thing. I used Windows 8 normally for about a year, and trust me, the Metro interface has strong points if you work with it and take advantage of what it offers. That being said, I like my start button more, and inevitably switched back to it using Start8. That's a personal preference, and I know many who opted to keep Metro.

 

[Urzu1000]

Huh? People are still using Windows 8? I've been so busy using Windows 7 I forgot (or was that, cared?) that 8 even existed.

Huh, you're still using Windows 7? I've been so busy taking advantage of many of the new features provided in Windows 8 that I had forgotten 7 even existed.

Just kidding, but seriously, Windows 8 has a lot of features that improve over Windows 7. It's just silly to pretend the whole operating system is bad just because you prefer the previous one. :/

 

[hannibal]

The win9 will hopefully bring new disk operating system, so longer path names most propably come then. Maybe they want to try new version of start menu in win 8 and tweak it for win 9 after they see how people like that. Actually that is guite good idea so that when win 9 comes out, the Metro UI is at that level that most people are willing to give up and upgrade to Metro users. It is also possible that they want more time to iron out bugs from win 9 before releasing it, so that the first impression is better than with win8. Because win 8.1 was minor upgrade to win8 they are not in hurry to release win9 until they are sure that it will really be good enough. For that, test running new start menu with win8 is quite logical step.

I am using start8 and modern mix and I can really recommened those two if you would like to have more win7 like experience with win8 improvements, at least until that 8.1 upgrade 3 comes out.

 

[MidnightDistort]

Trying new things is fine, but the idea of cloud irks me. It's odd not having my data with me. It feels insecure, oddly enough. I suppose though, we can take this the same way that people from long ago took with currency and banking. As much as you feel nervous trading your pile of gold for someone else to hold while they give you paper, it becomes normal eventually.

I'll stick to storing all my data locally.

I don't think MS's cloud OS will have any hold over anyone. Heck MS is still unable to get people off of XP let alone get most people interested in W8x, their idea of a cloud OS might be fine for some people but it's not going to change where we store data. I myself will continue to store my data locally as well. Most people who don't know much about PC's will continue using their PC's the same way they always have. Of course there will always be people trying new things out and some people might think that an OS cloud is simply another futuristic way of doing things all the while i know and most people who have a high enough intelligence will see it as another way of doing things. Hard drives and other methods of storing data locally won't go away. People have said for years that cds are being replaced by dvds and so on. There's still cd players out there, people still buy cds so that is not going away any time soon. People think that the PC form factor will shrink to tablets and cellphones, i still see desktop PC's in stores that carry them.

People say a lot of things but i have yet to see most of them as fact.

 

[Urzu1000]

All valid points. I feel that change for the sake of change usually ends poorly, but at least it gives us more information and foundation for building future technologies that can advance us past the point where we are.

As long as visual progress is being made, I can put up with the road bumps along the way.

 

[stevejnb]

About time. Now will there be an easy way to hide it?

 

[jimmysmitty]

Just more MS BS. Stringing people along trying to fool the dumb people that an update equates to they restored the start button back, maybe get a few extra sales out of it. At this stage, nobody cares anymore. Big businesses aren't falling for it and they aren't going to switch to 8 or 9 until the start screen comes back. It's as simple as that.

Actually, they wont switch until they absolutely need to. Most businesses will hold off on massive PC and OS upgrades until they absolutely need to. I did some work replacing phone systems for Papa Johns Corporate and they also had their POS systems replaced. They were still using a DOS based POS and just moved to a GUI based system. I am not sure if it was Windows based but it shows how long they are willing to wait.

Once it becomes necessary, they will upgrade to whatever the best, most secure and stable OS is at the time.

Servers however, they update pretty regularly. I have seen plenty of Server 2012 R2 servers in use for big companies.

Hopefully update 3 will change explorer.exe so it has full support for file paths longer than 255 characters! I hat having to use totalcommander to manipulate deeply nest files and folders. Why can't explorer do this? NTFS supports file paths of something like 16,000 characters.

Also hopefully explorer.exe will get proper units, such as GB and GiB so on a 1TB drive, explore will show it as 1TB not 931GB, it should be labelled as 1TB , 931GiB...

In the meantime I'l live with totalcommander and Start8.

A 1TB HDD is 1 Trillion Bytes but it is not 1TB/1000GB. It is 931GB due to the fact that it takes 1024 of each step to make one of the next step. This has been pretty common. I wish they would instead stop saying a drive is a 1TB and just say it is 931GB.

The win9 will hopefully bring new diskoperatuib system, so olenger path names most propably come then. Maybe tey want to try new version of start menu in win 8 and tweak it for win 9 after they see how people like that. Actually that is guite good idea so that when win 9 comes out the Metro UI is at that level that most people are willing to give up and upgrade to Metro users. It i allso possible that they wont more time to iron out bugs from win 9 before releasing it, so that the first impression is better than with win8. Because win 8 us minor upgrade to win8 they are not in hurry to release win9 until they are sure that it will really be good enough For that test runing new start menu with win8 is quite logical step.
I am using start8 and modern mix and I can really recommneded those two if you would like to have more win7 experience with win8 improvements, at least until that 8.1 upgrade 3 comes out.

Actually Microsoft already has a new disk operating system, ReFS. It is fully supported in Server 2012 (minus booting to it for now) and is supported in 8.1. They plan to replace NTFS with it eventually.

I imagine it takes some ideas from the file system that was being developed with Vista originally, WinFS while also improving on NTFS features.

 

[hannibal]

Actually Microsoft already has a new disk operating system, ReFS. It is fully supported in Server 2012 (minus booting to it for now) and is supported in 8.1. They plan to replace NTFS with it eventually.

I imagine it takes some ideas from the file system that was being developed with Vista originally, WinFS while also improving on NTFS features.

I did know that server 2012 has it but didn't know that win 8.1 already support it. That is good news. So we are just wainting that computer can boot with that. Thanks for info!

 

[EdgeT]

Yeah, but you can't do any serious computing on it. Linux is fine for dedicated tasks, servers, etc. but is severely crippling if you want to do any real work. It's just for playing around.
[/quote]


Since when? A whole lot of professional programs are also available on Linux. THe ones that aren't could be run in a VM or with something like WINE.

I'm also on Windows, but it's only because I'm a gamer, but I've used Linux for a long time as main OS and still use for a lot of things. It's just more efficient than Windows

Funny because my home desktop of linux doesnt seem to need to have updates to have a "start menu"

Yeah, but you can't do any serious computing on it. Linux is fine for dedicated tasks, servers, etc. but is severely crippling if you want to do any real work. It's just for playing around.

 

[Spac3nerd]

Funny because my home desktop of linux doesnt seem to need to have updates to have a "start menu"

Yeah, but you can't do any serious computing on it. Linux is fine for dedicated tasks, servers, etc. but is severely crippling if you want to do any real work. It's just for playing around.

I do real work on my Linux distro. If anything, doing real work on a Linux distro is faster than doing the same thing on Windows, at least in the context of the software development work that I do.

"It's just for playing around."
What? So running servers, doing high performance research and developing software is "playing around"? SteamOS may be for playing around, but most of us do real work on a daily basis without being hampered by Window's proprietary nature or its inferior update process.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Trying new things is fine, but the idea of cloud irks me. It's odd not having my data with me. It feels insecure, oddly enough. I suppose though, we can take this the same way that people from long ago took with currency and banking. As much as you feel nervous trading your pile of gold for someone else to hold while they give you paper, it becomes normal eventually.

I'll stick to storing all my data locally.

I don't think MS's cloud OS will have any hold over anyone. Heck MS is still unable to get people off of XP let alone get most people interested in W8x, their idea of a cloud OS might be fine for some people but it's not going to change where we store data. I myself will continue to store my data locally as well. Most people who don't know much about PC's will continue using their PC's the same way they always have. Of course there will always be people trying new things out and some people might think that an OS cloud is simply another futuristic way of doing things all the while i know and most people who have a high enough intelligence will see it as another way of doing things. Hard drives and other methods of storing data locally won't go away. People have said for years that cds are being replaced by dvds and so on. There's still cd players out there, people still buy cds so that is not going away any time soon. People think that the PC form factor will shrink to tablets and cellphones, i still see desktop PC's in stores that carry them.

People say a lot of things but i have yet to see most of them as fact.

You can't blame Microsoft for stubborn people. Honestly, I see a pretty normal trend. People who just use PCs instead of die hard enthusiasts/IT people tend to not care about OS. We do but we are special.

As well, I can list plenty of other times where people wanted to hold on as long as they could to a old OS. People don't like to spend money (they could have gotten Windows 8 for $40 bucks, I got it for $15 so win win) and they don't like change. They try to stick with what they know because it is easier.

Honestly I am a bit ashamed at the enthusiast PC builders, even some here. So many claim to be enthusiasts yet hate a new idea behind a OS so they bash it instead of moving forward. The reason a lot of us enjoy this stuff (technology) is because it is always new and changing. We have gone from basic computers that did punch card calculations all the way to a desktop with a GUI yet one comes along after 20 years of the same idea with a new idea and it is hated.

It doesn't matter in the long run though as kids will get used to it, especially since kids seem to start on Android/iOS these days Metro will come naturally to them.

 

[Urzu1000]

@jimmysmitty Well said.

 

[MidnightDistort]

You can't blame Microsoft for stubborn people. Honestly, I see a pretty normal trend. People who just use PCs instead of die hard enthusiasts/IT people tend to not care about OS. We do but we are special.

As well, I can list plenty of other times where people wanted to hold on as long as they could to a old OS. People don't like to spend money (they could have gotten Windows 8 for $40 bucks, I got it for $15 so win win) and they don't like change. They try to stick with what they know because it is easier.

Honestly I am a bit ashamed at the enthusiast PC builders, even some here. So many claim to be enthusiasts yet hate a new idea behind a OS so they bash it instead of moving forward. The reason a lot of us enjoy this stuff (technology) is because it is always new and changing. We have gone from basic computers that did punch card calculations all the way to a desktop with a GUI yet one comes along after 20 years of the same idea with a new idea and it is hated.

It doesn't matter in the long run though as kids will get used to it, especially since kids seem to start on Android/iOS these days Metro will come naturally to them.

Well, MS could do a better job at teaching developers how to build software to work on any Windows, for the most part some programs work fine while others don't. Certain programs must rely on certain versions of MS code and if that version is different then the program won't work (this might not be right but i'm giving an example). That would get a few XP users off.

There is 25% still on XP and while they did have their chance to get W7 they didn't. Windows 8 came along and that's a deterrent. I know things change but just because something is new, doesn't mean it's better. A smartphone is nice to have i can visit the internet with it, but it doesn't replace my desktop or my laptop. It's easier for me to use a keyboard and mouse. Could be that i am just getting old and unable to keep up with new technology but it's also too that i grew up using a keyboard and a mouse. Not only that desktop OS UI's are not as restrictive as touch UI's. I could load some programs in the background while watching a video on W7. With Windows 8 you can't do that without having to find a 3rd party start menu replacement. And now we are talking about the Cloud OS which to me doesn't make a lot of sense other than to be able to access your OS from any machine with all it's settings, software and data storage. Even then that's a technology that i don't really have use for.

I don't store everything off my laptop quite yet or have an external storage device large enough to carry my data around (i do but i don't want to lug my 2TB around) but i work with what i got. When a company releases a new product it's just that they are releasing something new and different. Doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to change things. Such as with W8 when people are saying people don't like change. I don't understand that, what changed? MS put W8 out and it's out in stores. That doesn't prevent you from using W7 or going elsewhere. Actually yes, i myself can deal with changes and if i don't like a certain change, well i guess i won't be dealing with that change.. i'll go elsewhere to get what i need. Getting a smartphone is a change, people are buying smartphones and tablets and possibly more often than desktops or laptops. But the form factor of a PC did not change, they just put out a PC that fits in the palm of your hand. Desktops are still being used and i still have one. I don't know what will happen in the future, but more desktops might be built at home versus going in and buying a machine that meets your needs every 3-7 years.

I myself am using Linux more and i was inspired because of Windows 8. Guess i can't complained that MS changed directions and making Windows more difficult to use because now i got on Linux. Kids might automatically use W8 and not care about the changes but at the same time i don't need a touch UI for my desktop. It's a nice idea, but i don't plan on getting a new monitor to use it and even so it wouldn't feel right. So again i don't really need that functionality anyhow and Linux would be a better fit for me.

 

[Urzu1000]

@MidnightDistort, while I understand what you're saying about a third party start button, I would like to bring up another point. Without a touchscreen monitor, and without a start menu replacement, it is still very much possible to use the Windows 8 Metro interface. I began using windows 8 in the "consumer preview" release before it officially came out. Even before the refinement, it only took me a day or so before the interface felt fine.

You also have some sort of misunderstanding about Windows 8. The start button was simply replaced with a Metro UI for finding things. It doesn't prevent running programs in the background while watching a video. The good old-fashioned Windows desktop is still there, and the OS itself with the exclusion of the Metro UI, is almost identical as Windows 7, with added improvements. Performance enhancement, various nifty features such as being able to mount ISOs just by double clicking, etc. There's a whole plethora of features, and most of them are very useful, especially to people such as ourselves.

While I don't condone anyone for staying on Windows 7, because everyone has preferences, I still feel that you should at least try Windows 8 for a few days before you decide against it. Openly disliking a program you've never fully tried is a disservice to those who read it, and to yourself for potentially missing out on wonderful new things.

 

[MidnightDistort]

While it is possible to use Windows 8 it doesn't mean it works for everyone. I didn't say that it was impossible for me to use it, it was just annoying and irritating.

That doesn't make any sense though if you were watching a video and needed to load your instant messenger or whatever using the start screen would be covering the video you were watching. The start menu does not have this issue as you can resize whatever video you are watching so it's still visible. And i don't put every single program i think i will need to have on my desktop because that in itself clutters the desktop or the taskbar. You will have your most common programs on the taskbar whether it's your browser, media player.. whatever it is that you will end up using during every fresh bootup. But to have everything on there or on the desktop to me is tacky. The start menu offers a quick and easy way to store everything on there based on your most recent programs or you can type what you want to use.

It isn't about wanting to stay on W7 or just blindly disliking W8. I gave it a try and i thought it wasn't worth switching to W8. I'm not missing on anything new if i don't need or want it. Or maybe it's something that will work with any OS. Yeah maybe i am missing out on the faster boot times but i leave my PC on standby or on if i am going to need it. And i don't mind waiting for it to boot up because i can be doing something else while that is going on even though it only takes my older desktop a minute or 2 to boot up. It's not like it's an hour difference or anything.

Adding features then removing other features for something else or because 'no one uses it' just doesn't make any sense. If an older version of Windows had something i liked or even something that i found useless i'd still like to see it in the new version of windows because i know that if i ever needed it would be there. It's not that hard.

 

[Urzu1000]

"If an older version of Windows had something i liked or even something that i found useless i'd still like to see it in the new version of windows because i know that if i ever needed it would be there. It's not that hard. "

I could not agree more with that statement. I think Windows SHOULD have kept the start button as an option. Such a drastic change should have been an optional one at first. From both a consumer perspective, and a business standpoint, it would have worked better.

After reading your last comment though, I can see where you're coming from. I still believe it's easier to get Start8 (third party program) for Windows 8, then it is to get third party programs for the features that Windows 8 has naturally that Windows 7 lacks, but I respect your opinion on the matter. Have you seen the new "leaked" Windows 9 start button?