Stop the Pirateing. ALL READ

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Sorry for the misunderstanding. I appreciate you taking the time to clear it up.
 
If somebody hacks a game and puts it on a P2P but nobody downloads it there is no issue. It's the millions who go to that site and download it to their PC (and most likely share it themselves) that cause the issue.

I'll have a little more fun with you and even argue that the people doing the cracking as a whole are less culpable than those doing the downloading as a whole. At least the cracker can make a real argument that they did what they did for legit reasons. Think of a no-CD crack. There are a lot of legit consumers out there that really would want such a thing and the person who creates it may be doing so with the honest game owner who doesn't want to use the CD in mind. The fact that other people use an otherwise harmless crack to avoid having to pay for the game themselves does not necessarily mean that the original cracker had ill intentions in mind when they created their work. Maybe they did or maybe they honestly bought the game and didn't want to have to use the cd, we can't really know. What we do know is that the people using it to pirate the game do have ill intentions in the way they use it. So who's more guilty, the person who made the crack that could be used for good or bad or the person who only uses it for bad?
 
Thats true, but as I said before I never said it was entirely the hackers fault, people who are downloading are still at fault too just not as much as the people who go out of their way to make it readily available for download. and just out of fun and sheer curiousity. maybe you can answer these for me mr. smart guy who thinks he's so smooth.

First off, a lot of new games like my crysis warhead make it so you dont need no-cd crack, I can play it without the cd having to be in the cd drive and I did not have to download a no cd crack. So where is the excuse for the hacker who made that crack?

secondly, tell me where the excuses are for the people who created the keygenerators for people who want to download the game. Shouldnt one person only need one key.

thirdly, since anyone who buys the game has had problems with securom or drm w/e they were always allowed to install it again if they just called in their product. so, why I ask you, does someone go out of their way and create a program, or series of programs that can buypass a securom or drm when they could have called in and got to install the game. a few weeks worth of programming and testing vs just calling in for less than 30 minutes.

where's the excuses for these hackers???????????
 

oh no worries, it was my fault i should have been more clear. sorry if I came off kinda mean too, its just I was trying to make an innocent point, bad analogy or not, and I got flamed for it. Right now for some reason this guy pulp or w/e is still trying to flame me, even though at the very beginning of his conversation with me, he said he agrees with me... yeah Idk....
 
Thats true, but as I said before I never said it was entirely the hackers fault, people who are downloading are still at fault too just not as much as the people who go out of their way to make it readily available for download. and just out of fun and sheer curiousity. maybe you can answer these for me mr. smart guy who thinks he's so smooth.

First off, a lot of new games like my crysis warhead make it so you dont need no-cd crack, I can play it without the cd having to be in the cd drive and I did not have to download a no cd crack. So where is the excuse for the hacker who made that crack?
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Easy, and you pretty much already answered that question yourself. Activation limitations can be a real pain, whether you've had to reinstall multiple times or just don't have internet access at the time. I legally purchased Spore and also downloaded an activation crack, just in case. The same goes for every version of Windows that I've legally purchased.

secondly, tell me where the excuses are for the people who created the keygenerators for people who want to download the game. Shouldnt one person only need one key.
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Every lose a booklet or case? You may end up needing a new key for a game you already own and as long as the key you are using isn't stopping somebody else from using the game what's the big deal? I have several games which I've purchased but at some point lost the key and had to find a new one.

thirdly, since anyone who buys the game has had problems with securom or drm w/e they were always allowed to install it again if they just called in their product. so, why I ask you, does someone go out of their way and create a program, or series of programs that can buypass a securom or drm when they could have called in and got to install the game. a few weeks worth of programming and testing vs just calling in for less than 30 minutes.

where's the excuses for these hackers???????????
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If you can't figure out why somebody would spend weeks developing such programs rather than just calling tech support, well then I have to assume you do not know many programmers.
 



After you defending so many things hackers do to make stolen games readily available to other theives theres only one conclusion I can draw from this. You must pirate games, and or be a hacker that makes it readily available to theives. I'm sorry, thats just the way you come off because if your trying to be funny, your not, this is a serious situation, and I just read robwrights thread on how fallout 3 is already in thousands of piraters hands. To me, I wouldnt doubt if you had it in your hands right now. I dont respect people who flip flop their points of views as much as you and people who pirate, so I'm done.




(plus I gotta go to work lol) ROFLMAO
 


You probably agree with the CEO of EA with his claims that only 0.2% of gamers dislike SecureROM.
That, or someone who hasn't had a lot of hardware failures, windows activations blown away by SPD errors, and spent the requisite telephone time recovering. The idea of calling every software company to beg for permission to use each software program I have after a hard drive failure is just ridiculous, but very conceivable if everyone just goes along quietly. Punishing people who buy your product sounds stupid, and yet there're lots of people waiting to defend it for free.

I have games over 10 years old, some I play occasionally that have publishers that are long gone, so if they had to "call home", they would never work without a crack. No, publishers won't release patches to remove restrictions if they shut down, no bankruptcy judge would authorize the expense.

SecureROM is Sony's way of recouping some of the losses they took over XCP. It only makes sense to use the tech from their rootkit to sell to anyone willing to buy it.

For me, I'm just skipping these titles loaded with secretive crap, I don't trust in the benevolence and kindness of corporations anyway, I trust them to do anything possible to enhance profits, even if it's unethical as long as it's at least arguably not in direct violation of law. I'd expect nothing less as a shareholder.

YMMV.
 
Unfortunatly Piracy can also be a good thing and companies like EA are not making good use of it or offering something simular. I was a pretty big PC gamer back in 1997-2001. Had pretty much all of the C & C titles, Homeworld, Fallout, Freespace, etc. Real life hit and we all know how that goes.
I recently discovered my box of old games and to say that a few of the disks are gone is an understatement. I have the CD keys but their is no real legitimate way to get these old games except through Piracy.
Between 2001-2005 I missed quite a few titles and understandably these games cannot be purchased. There is quite a few I missed out on that I would enjoy and if I could purchase I would but there isn't a way to do so. Once again someone like myself is left to turn to Piracy.
I would love to see all these companies get together and just create one website where you can purchase old games for a dollar or two. Right now all those games are just disappearing or would have disappeared had it not been for Piracy.
I do buy the current games that come out but what I find myself doing is turning to Bittorrent so I don't have to load a disk. I do have Game Jackal but with Vista it's just easier to have the game where I can I just click and paly. No hassle with Disks or looking for them. No scratched disk and my kids can play without bothering me to figure out how to get them to work.
I also found it irritating that a game I purchased was censored. I'm a 37 year old adult and I want to play the game the way the developers intended. The Witcher was a big deal for me. I have the US disk but I pirated the uncensored one not only to have the game the way it was intended but also so I could have the no disk feature.
Blizzard was pretty wonderful. All those old games from them I can just download and play. I like purchasing and putting the box up so the Orange Box was pretty sweet. Spore's DRM didn't bother me as the positives of no CD and easy installation made it well worth it. I am a little bothered by the fact I may not be able to play it 10 years down the road but even in that I don't see a problem.
Though Bittorrent has generated a lot of heat about easy access of Piracy the truth is that there is a need for a central data base of easily downloadable games, that are easy to install, and require no CD to play. If a company could do that with the option of being able to get the box and a registered key through the mail (they could even charge extra for it and I would pay for it) then I think you would see Piracy begin to decline greatly.
Most consumers would rather purchase and legally own a product than steal it. The fact that Piracy is so rampant is because the companies are not giving what the customer wants and there is a way for the customer to get what he wants. The fact that it is free is just a bonus.
 
I'd really appreciate a model where publishers did what most brick & mortar stores did selling games 1-2 years after they come out. Sell them cheaper. I realize stores do this to clear out inventory, but I really like supporting developers like Bethesda, but $40+ for a game is out of my (reasonable) reach. I usually end up buying things second hand of amazon, but I'd much rather support the developer by buying a new copy, but direct-download, from my experience, never seems to change the price of a game.

As far as DRM goes. CD-keys, server authentication for online play are great, but not very effective, especially for single-player games (RPG's). I don't mind Accessing the server to start up a game, but I'd rather if it weren't every time. Maybe check every time it's started up, but let a game load/be played even if it doesn't pass, just make it so you can't fail 3 times in a row or something. If you're like me, and your ISP sucks and internet goes down fairly regularly, this would be a big boost. If my internet's not working, I play SP games, if my SP game needs to access the internet or close, I'm left with nothing. Let me play the game I bought!!!
 
There are a few places that sell old games, but $10 seems to be the low end of price. I think publishers just don't want to deal with what does/doesn't work on current hardware and can't support those titles.

When they give them away I think they can get by without support, but if some people pay $5 for something, they'll demand hours and hours of support for it or threaten to sue. Been there, answered the phone, turned it over to the legal department.
 
This won't stop. Sleep well, the companies that make the games are still turning a profit.

If there are torrent sites, there will be illegal downloading. The truth is, everyone will always crack some game, no matter what security thing it has bundled with it.
 
You simply CANNOT play any steam games on VAC online servers. Maybe some actually manage to find a way, but it is very very limited.

For exemple, L4D is coming in a couple of weeks. I just KNOW that I won't be able to play online with a pirated version. Same for TF2. Oh, and what's that ? 20 $ for TF2, well thank you sir. Updates and new contents every months ? Thanks !

Funny story. I was playing single player Gears of War on PC, pirated version, and thought that it would be a kickass online coop-versus game. So i went the SAME DAY to get this game at my local EB gamestore. The game is there, 50$. Ok, knida expensive but I'll take it anyway ! The guy then tells me i need an XBOX LIVE ACCOUNT TO PLAY THIS GAME ONLINE. HAHA. I don't have and never will have this crappy gaming box, why should i pay for their services ? I simply laughed (with him, cuz he thought that was the stupidest **** ever) and replaced the game.

Behind him, i see TF2, 20$. Read some good reviews on this, played CS for a long time, I'll try it. I've been playing TF2 since then non-stop, every single day. And i can assure you that everybody that plays this game, on thousands of servers, did pay the full price.
 
And for all of you saying pirating is killing the business. PLEASE, that's ****.

Let me say this: SPORE.
Yes, the super-hyper hyped game of our generation. The one game that would change EVERYTHING, the way we play and interact in games. I simply COULDN'T WAIT for this game. I was buying this game ASAP. 1 week prior release, it's released on torrents. Heck, no exams or essays this week, I'm kinda free, let's try it ! I finished the game (as in get to the center of the universe, buy evertything, use everything, destroy/mess around/socialize/piss off every neighbors) in just under 3 days. And then i thought ... that's it ? This is the game ? Sure, i can't use the online community features and DL user created contents, but ... so what ? I can make them, I can use the whaky and funny AXIS created content. THIS IS WORTH 50 $ ? Nerver played this game again.

So many games are not worth it, and it's goddamn frustrating to have to pay so much for so little. I pay for every single online games i want to play, and the others better be worth my $. Btw, i bought on steam TF2, HL2, HL2 episode 1, HL2 episode 2, and still got my CS CD somewhere. Wanted to buy COD4 on steam too but wouldn't work, so i bought it in a store.

So yeah, i would say that STEAM works pretty well
 


Wow... I weep for the collective of humanity.
 
@ Cuddles, I suggest you check out http://www.gog.com/ on the subject of good old games. You can probably get a whole pile of the ones you missed for $5-$10 each, and no DRM etc etc. And the developers still get their money. 😀
 
Cuddles, good post, no doubt that the entertainment industry as a whole is trying to figure out new ways to distribute their content. I think part of the problem is that game developers go out of business. So it's hard to get the rights to an old game, you have to figure out who owns the rights and then negotiate. And despite what a lot of people are saying, game developers go out of business all the time. Massive, makers of World in Conflict, could be another casualty. Just because EA is out there doesn't mean all game makers are flourishing, even EA is losing money! If EA can't make money, then it shows you how hard it is to make a profit in gaming.


Bashem, the "not-worth-it" argument has been used to defend piracy for years now and it's been completely destroyed as a valid argument. You have demos from companies who want to give you the opportunity to test the game. There are many games without demos, but NO ONE FORCES YOU TO PLAY THEM. If you don't want to take the risk of buying a game that's not worth it, then DON'T BUY, but please don't try to justify your thievery.

So you stole Spore and received three days of pleasure and gaming from it. After you already benefited, you decide that it's not worth $50 because you already received your entertainment!

If I'm a game developer, do I have any rights? Can I say, hey, this is my game. There are reviews of this game available as well as trailers and stuff. If you want to take the gamble, then you have to pay $50 to play the game. If $50 is too much of a risk to you, then please do not buy the game, do not try the game, you can wait later for more opinions and more reviews.

Do I have this right or is it all about you and your selfish myopic desires? YOU had to try the game BEFORE it was released! YOU STOLE the game and then decided not to compensate the developer because you already got your kicks! I don't believe any of your BS justification, because under your own twisted logic, you should then send in some money to EA for playing the game. It's not worth $50, but then how much is it worth? $30? $20? Even if it is one penny, you should send that money in if you're not just outright stealing the game. But did you? Did you even THINK about sending in some money? Of course not because thieves don't compensate their victims.

With any movie, any game, you take the risk that it's not "worth" the cost to you. No one forces you to take that risk. You can reduce that risk by waiting for more opinions, waiting for the price to come down which you know it will unless it's a really good game, then it takes a year at least. But if you're not willing to wait, then buy that game. Developers who routinely make bad games that aren't worth it will go out of business, they'll get a reputation. Again, there is no justification for what you did, it shows the twisted mentality of a thief, a criminal that society has no need for, a person who deserves punishment and needs reform.
 
Wow, dude, you're a judge or something ? Military ? Police officer ? Let's purge the world of the unworthy eh ?

I've got what, at home right now, in a box and around my computer, maybe 400 $ OF **** GAMES THAT I BOUGHT THESE LAST YEARS ? And all I am is a thief ? A criminal none the less ! I'm not rich that's for sure. And certainly not rich enough to enjoy playing a game for 3 days for 50 $. That's insane man, seriously. I'll have to prostitute myself to continu playing video games. Actually, is it worth it .... maybe, I dont know... I could get some easy cash with that guy ... NO, STOP !

You see, I'm against all those crappy developpers making crappy and unplayable games, tossing them one after the other for 50 $ +. PLAY OUR GAME, IT'S THE BEST ! And then, nothing. They fix a couple of things for a month, and then they forget you. They don't care anymore, you already got their stupid **** unplayable bug infested piece of crap game. THEY'RE MAKING ANOTHER ONE ! Why fix something you already bought, haha ! Buy the next one and see if it's better !

Anyway, I'm not as worse a criminel as you make it sound man (is this grammatically correct ? I'm not english, sorry !) ! Fallout 3 is coming out soon, and I'll certainly buy it. The least i can do, as i got Oblivion and Shivering isles pirated, and got a **** of gameplay hours (200 hours or something) ! 😗 Great game, but I just can't get myself to finish it. Ans then there's L4D, but like i said, with the support Valve offers, I'm buying everything they throw at me. :bounce:

Hey, maybe we found the solution ! HOW ABOUT SOME SUPPORT FROM THE GAMES WE BUY. Update your ****, improve gameplay, add campaign missions, story modes, characters, VS options, MAPS, QUESTS, ANYTHING.
Thanks valve ! Vote Steam

CMON !

 
honestly, they should just get rid of all these file sharing programs like utorrent, bitcomet, limewire, etc. it's gotten so bad that if you were to talk about one of these kinds of apps, the person you're talking to automatically thinks "illegal" or pirtating". they don't want you to use these apps for pirating, but there is no other use for them, yet nobody seems to care about that. it's ruining everything for the people who do it. i can understand doing it for songs or something. i mean, you can listen to them all day on youtube if you want, so why is that so bad to get them with limewire or something, but getting games with it is not righ.
 


Metallica obviously agrees with you.
 
I use utorrent for my unliscened anime dubs. But seriously, Bashem, you pirated Oblivion and Shivering Isles, and played for 200 hours. Did you buy them after the first 50 hours? It's not clear from your post whether you later went and bought them, because I sure hope you did. 200 hours for $50 is a steal. My cable tv isn't even that cheap!!!

And if there's a demo out, then try a game that way, that's what they're for. Sins of a Solar Empire is the best example. Has a nice, long demo, plays the same as the same. Perfect. Crysis=bad example. Short, played poorly (although the game did, too), and didn't show much cool stuff (like a real scope).

And if you have a box of bad games, you either have really high standards, play too many games, or don't read reviews/play demos before you buy stuff.
 

way to break down the difference between theft and piracy... way too many people use the words interchangeably.

one of my main views of piracy has always been that the people enforcing it make it seem like it is theft from the person that makes said material. But if i buy something used ( as i often do if i find a used cd i want ) i'm not giving any money to the musician because its used, and the original purchase is the only thing they see any profit from.

oh the woes of the information age... if people could easily dub vinyls in the 70's they would have.
 
one of my main views of piracy has always been that the people enforcing it make it seem like it is theft from the person that makes said material. But if i buy something used ( as i often do if i find a used cd i want ) i'm not giving any money to the musician because its used, and the original purchase is the only thing they see any profit from.
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No it's not exactly the same as stealing but you can't look at it as narrowly as whether or not you are physically taking something from somebody. I made a comparison earlier to counterfeiting money. You're not taking money from anybody and you're not directly costing anybody anything. So are you stealing? Well no technically not, but you are committing a dishonest act which devalues other peoples property. But dictionary definitions of "stealing" aside that is basically what it is; acting dishonestly in order to cause property damages to somebody else.
 
Love it when thieves try to hide behind semantics, stealing is taking something that doesn't belong to you without the owner's permission. Regardless of how you want to define theft, pirating is wrong, immoral, and illegal. That's the bottom line. You are taking and benefiting from someone else's hard work and depriving them of their deserved income. If I'm a game developer or musician, how am I supposed to make a living if everyone steals what I create?

Bashem, what another lame excuse. It's like a bank robber saying, "I deposited over $1500 in my account last month, and I paid $50 in overdraft fees while also having a CD at this bank! So what if I rob the cashier every once in a while? I do legitimate business with the bank!" What would a jury think of this defense? They would laugh, maybe they would find the robber not guilty due to insanity, clearly such a defense is so ridiculous that not even the most desperate defense lawyers would dream of using it.

Hey buddy, no one forces you to buy the games. But guess what? You get a lot of enjoyment from these games, that's why you keep on going back for more. Yeah I wish my car had a lifetime warranty and never broke down either. I wish that car makers would guarantee the car for life and pay for all maintenance too. You know how much I pay for routine maintenance? Why don't they make cars that never ever need repairs? I guess I should go and "borrow" a car, I return it after it breaks down. Hey, in the real world, that's grand theft auto and I'm a car thief if I do that. Blaming YOUR theft on the producer is just insanity.


The least i can do, as i got Oblivion and Shivering isles pirated, and got a **** of gameplay hours (200 hours or something) !
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Wow, 200 hours of enjoyment, and you still aren't willing to pay $50 for that? Let's see, a movie runs 2 hrs, that's 100 movies, and at $10 a movie, that's $1000 of entertainment if you go to the movies, even rental would cost you around $300. And you're still trying to justify your theft?

You are a thief, stop trying to justify your actions. You are not a good person, it's time to look in the mirror, you are a common criminal, no better than the pickpocket on the streets, except that you don't have the courage to do something like that where you can get caught.

You received a lot of enjoyment from the games you pirated. How it is fair that the people who spent months and millions to make the game get nothing in return? Why do those people who make the games get nothing while you get to play them? How is that fair in any system, by any code of ethics, by any moral belief, by any religion on Earth?

It's too bad you can't "afford" those games, but I bet that you can, you just don't want to pay for them because that means you have to cut expenses elsewhere. And in the end, these games are entertainment, you have no right to these games under ANY social philosophy, failed or otherwise. I want a lot of things I can't afford, like a beach front property, a Ferrari sports car, my own basketball team. You can't justify your actions, just admit you are a criminal and yes, society would be better off without your illegal and immoral actions.

Hey, I'm paying a lot for my apartment, how about I come over and share your space for nothing? You still get to sleep in your bed and have your place. Why would it matter if I share it, I can't afford my own space! There's plenty of room for both of us, I'll only use your bed, your stuff when you're not using them, it doesn't change anything does it? OF COURSE IT DOES! That's why we have property rights. That's why you can't go and use someone else's stuff if they're not using it. You aren't allowed to benefit from what someone else paid for without their permission. Otherwise people from you city could come into your room and use your stuff when you're not there. That's called trespassing and is banned in every society and country on Earth. From China to Russia to the USA, you can't go into someone else's home and use it without their permission. You have zero argument.
 
Why not just steal the games from your local gamestore, it is no different...oh yeah because all you pirates are straight up punks. I love the logic, "it's not stealing, it's just copying" or another one "the pc game companies started it with their invasive DRM on Pong" please, copy protection (that's what DRM was called way back) was necessary even in the bad old days. I copied my friend's Might and Magic 3 floppies and then photocopied the manual, boom DRM subverted, yeah I was young and didn't think beyond my own enjoyment, which, I believe is the issue with most of these TPB users. Basically just wait, every game is going to be released using a steam type model where the program has to be on when you run the game. its coming and we have nobody but ourselves to blame.
 
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