[SOLVED] Suddenly multiple BSODS

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Feb 22, 2019
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Hey there..

Today I've encountered multiple different BSOD's
For example 0x101 caused by hal.dll
Then there was 0x1c7 caused by cl.dll and 0x1a caused by ntoskrnl.exe

System is a:
-non-oc 4790k -> watercooled
-gigabyte z97x-ud5h-bk
-4x4gb Corsair Vengeance on 1333mhz
-Asus strix 1080 8gb
-120gb ssd for Win10 and programs
-4 hdds

Temps are fine
System is otherwise stable, atleast it has been untill today
Memtest shows no errors
Using Avira antivirus, pretty much all drivers are up to date, except the graphic drivers because the latest ones are causing issues, but that's non related..
sfc /scannow says everything's fine
chkdsk /f done

I sincerely have no clue and idea what to do next, except a reinstall, but I'm worried it's something else.....
 
Solution
Heat can cause errors... wait and see if you get another.

I cleaned the filters in my PC and although difference isn't as big as yours, it is also 38C outside so it can only do so much. Intakes were full of dust as well so it just wasn't getting any fresh air. Now everything hovering around 40 or below, before it was high 40's.

If the cooling doesn't help, Clean install was actually what I was going to suggest as new drivers might fix it.
WHEA & Clock watchdog are both hardware errors. Both called by cpu but not necessarily caused by it.

Fact BSOD survived a clean install means they likely hardware... need to work out what hardware. So 2nd CPU test was just a way to 2nd guess Intel test, as I have found its not perfect.

need to reduce hardware being used to isolate causes. It could be the GPU but hard to play games without it... I would suggest running off just the motherboard display outs and take GPU out and see if you still get BSOD.

The errors can be any hardware... makes them difficult to identify.

they can be anything. Even hdd can be to blame, so test everything attached to PC.

Was afraid you'd say that. Thing is I'm afraid that I'll replace the GPU (have a spare gtx760) and there will be no bsod's the next month as it happened before. And then it'll start again because it won't be the GPU's fault.. I don't get it (especially that it's presumably the hardware's fault) that it happens so inconsistently...
Sometime it's fine for a month or more, then 5 in a row.. As you said, it's a pain in the kicker to rule out certain stuff in such a long period of time.

But anyways, appreciate both your help, hope I idd manage to find the culprit
 
Ok then, here we go..

Running prime95 with all 4 memory sticks in -> BSOD after a few seconds
1 Memory stick (either one in any slot) runs for at least 10 minutes (one stick produced BSOD after 9 minut-ish)

As soon as I put in any two (or more) sticks that are presumably running fine on their own (except the one that produced the bsod ofc) I get a BSOD after a few seconds again..
So 1 stick = ok for atleast 10 minutes
2+ sticks = BSOD (WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR) after a few seconds..
 
We did.. my first post.. memtest didn't show any errors.. I'll do it again tho

Oh good, I wasn't missing that step. So I guess all 4 worked fine before, they just now started to do this trick. And I do see you ran memtest...

main difference between Prime95 and memtest is 2nd runs outside windows so if you get no errors on all 4 sticks individually, run memtest with all sticks in as it can be a way to test motherboard slots - a Memory controller is on the CPU so both sort of test same parts.

So 1 stick = ok for atleast 10 minutes
2+ sticks = BSOD (WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR) after a few seconds..

Perhaps its the memory slots themselves... though tbf 10 minutes isn't a win.

What PSU do you have?
How old is PC? I can tell from CPU its same age as mine so 4-5 years?

I have asked for some 2nd opinions
 
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How, exactly, are you testing with Prime95?

What version of Prime95? AVX on or disabled? WHICH Prime95 test, Small FFT, Large FFT, Blend mode or some custom combination of settings?

For memory testing, this is what I'd recommend.

Download Prime95 version 26.6 from here (Or a newer version with the custom modification explained below, OR the latest version and DISABLE AVX in the settings):

https://www.technic3d.com/download/overclocking-und-monitoring-tools/24-prime-95-v26.6.htm


Then test as follows:

Final testing with Prime95

It is highly advisable that you do a final test using Prime95 version 26.6 (And ONLY version 26.6 except as noted below) choosing the Custom test. You can also use the Blend mode option but after a fair amount of personal testing, asking questions from some long time members with engineering level degrees that have forgotten more about memory architectures than you or I will ever know, and gathering opinions from a wide array of memory enthusiasts around the web, I'm pretty confident that the custom option is a lot more likely to find errors with the memory configuration, and faster, if there are any to be found.

Please note as this is rather important, if you prefer, or have problems running version 26.6 because you have a newer platform that doesn't want to play nice with version 26.6, you can use the latest version of Prime95 with the Custom test selected but you will need to make the following change.

If you wish to use a newer version than 26.6 make the following edit to the "local.txt" file located in the Prime95 folder.

Find the line value that specifies CpuSupportsAVX=1, and change it to CpuSupportsAVX=0

Then click File-->Save, and then close the document.

Now open Prime95.

Click on "Custom". Input a value of 512k in the minimum FFT size field. Leave the maximum FFT size field at 4096k. In the "Memory to use" field you should take a look at your current memory allocation in either HWinfo or system resource monitor. Whatever "free" memory is available, input approximately 75% of that amount. So if you currently have 16GB of installed memory, and approximately 3GB are in use or reserved leaving somewhere in the neighborhood of 13GB free, then enter something close to 75% of that amount.

So if you have 13GB free, or something reasonably close to that, then 75% of THAT would be 9.75GB, which, when multiplies times 1024 will roughly equal about 9984MB. You can average things out by simply selecting the closest multiple of 1024 to that amount just to keep it simple, so we'll say 10 x 1024= 10240mb and enter that amount in the field for "Memory to use (MB)". We are still well within the 13GB of unused memory BUT we have left enough memory unused so that if Windows decides to load some other process or background program, or an already loaded one suddenly needs more, we won't run into a situation where the system errors out due to lack of memory because we've dedicated it all to testing.

I've experienced false errors and system freezes during this test from over allocating memory, so stick to the method above and you should be ok.


Moving right along, do not change the time to run each FFT size. Leave that set to 15 minutes.

Click run and run the Custom test for 8 hours. If it passed Memtest86 and it passes 8 hours of the Custom test, the memory is 100% stable, or as close to it as you are ever likely to get but a lot of experts in the area of memory configuration suggest that running the extended Windows memory diagnostic test is also a pretty good idea too.

If you get errors, (and you will want to run HWinfo alongside Prime95 so you can periodically monitor each thread as Prime will not stop running just because one worker drops out, so you need to watch HWinfo to see if there are any threads not showing 100% usage which means one of the workers errored and was dropped) then you need to either change the timings, change the DRAM voltage or change the DRAM termination voltage, which should be approximately half of the full DRAM voltage.

There are also other bios settings that can affect the memory configuration AND stability, such as the VCCIO and system agent voltages, so if you have problems with stability at higher clock speeds you might want to look at increasing those slightly. Usually, for Intel at least, something in the neighborhood of 1.1v on both those is pretty safe. There are a substantial number of guides out there covering those two settings, but most of them are found within CPU overclocking guides so look there in guides relevant to your platform.

As a further measure of assurance that your WHOLE configuration is stable, you can download and run Realbench for 8 hours. If the system freezes or fails when running Realbench with your full memory amount set, try running it again but select only half your amount of installed memory.
 
Soooo, yes.. Decided to run memtest again..
WIth all 4 slots populated, I got 28 errors in the 1st pass.. ( started to produce errors in test #5) Canceled it afterwards because it doesn't even matter what happens in the next passes..

Tested each stick individually in slot 1. All passed
Tested one stick in slot 2. Passed
Tested one stick in slot 3. Passed
Tested one stick in slot 4. Memtest froze after 1 minute 24 secs (86% into test #5)

Had to shut down computer. Now it doesn't even boot up.. Fans spin up, gpu gets power, so do the hdd's, after a few seconds, it shuts itself down, powers up again and repeats. Tried moving memory stick to different slot, same result..

Edit: booted after 5 minutes unplugged. Test runs ok for now

So the followup..
Tested one (same) stick in slot 4 (second try after previous freeze). Passed
Tested slots 1+2 (dual channel). Passed
Forgot to test slots 3+4

Again tested all 4 sticks in all 4 slots. 36 errors (most in test 5, 7 and 13). First error was on the same address as before.
Upped the voltage to 1.6v, all 4 sticks in, 37 errors (most in test 5, 8 and 13). Again first error on the same address as before...

To answer some previous questions. PC is about 4.5 years old. Running 24/7, only thing replaced meanwhile was the GPU (from 760 to 1080), and added two HDD's, also fans, cpu cooling etc....
PSU is a Corsair CX600. Temps are fine. A local tehnician suggested to replace the PSU. I'm planning to buy a spare for a second comp anyways, so might upgrade this one instead..
 
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Its good to identify the problem, even if fixing it might be difficult.

5 years is about when the idea of replacing PSU isn't a bad one. My PC been on most days in the last 4 years.

Motherboards are the hardest parts to troubleshoot, normally you eliminate (not literally, I mean test them to make sure they fine) all other parts first and if you know if the replacements work, and still don't, it has to be what hasn't been replaced.

Its an expensive thing for individuals to do so its why I suggest having PC repaired at about that stage. Same with PSU, unless you know what you doing, it can be dangerous.

It could be PSU or the motherboard judging from repeated problems with slot 4.

How does it run with just 3 sticks?
 
Its good to identify the problem, even if fixing it might be difficult.

5 years is about when the idea of replacing PSU isn't a bad one. My PC been on most days in the last 4 years.

Motherboards are the hardest parts to troubleshoot, normally you eliminate (not literally, I mean test them to make sure they fine) all other parts first and if you know if the replacements work, and still don't, it has to be what hasn't been replaced.

Its an expensive thing for individuals to do so its why I suggest having PC repaired at about that stage. Same with PSU, unless you know what you doing, it can be dangerous.

It could be PSU or the motherboard judging from repeated problems with slot 4.

How does it run with just 3 sticks?

Yea I understand that finding a shop to get it fixed would be the best option.
Although, the problem is, in my city I know of only 2, maybe 3 shops, and 2 of them are more or less known for telling customers "this is defective, this should be replaced" etc., just so they can sell more stuff.. So I don't really trust them to be fair.

For replacing most of the components, as you said, it could get quite expensive, first the psu, then the memory, then perhaps the motherboard, and in the end it'll be the cpu how lucky I am.. So I'll throw ~600€ out of the window for obsolete components..

But anyways, I'm putting together an old q6600 which had a fried psu, and wanted to order a new one just recently.. "Lucky" that I haven't yet, so I can get a better PSU for my main comp, and maybe test the current one on the old q6600.. Also I'm thinking about to get a matched pair of memory sticks (2x16 gb instead of the current 4x4gb)

oh btw.. the memory modules I'm using.. they're not exactly paired..
I mean, all of them are Corsair Vengeance, all have the same timings, frequency and voltage rating, but two of them are version 2.1 and two are version 8.16.. I've read that that may cause issues, but It's been fine for the past 4 years?

p.s. will try to run with 3 sticks tommorow, and test slots 3 and 4 separately..
 
I don't think its ram, all the sticks work fine alone. You are right about the 4 sticks not being one set being a problem but then in same breath, they worked fine together for 4 years. 2 sticks would at least work in current set up.

I won't speculate on what the bad part might be. PSU is least expensive (not advocating buying a cheap one) compared to new motherboard. wait and see what Darkbreeze says...

I just wondered if windows works fine with just 3, as that is cheapest option. Avoid slot 4 since its the one that gives 3 ram errors every time. New PSu might fix that, I don't know.



Test 5 uses the same algorithm as test 4 but the data pattern is a random number and it's complement. This test is particularly effective in finding difficult to detect data sensitive errors. The random number sequence is different with each pass so multiple passes increase effectiveness.

Test 7: This is a variation of the moving inversions algorithm that shifts the data pattern left one bit for each successive address. The starting bit position is shifted left for each pass. To use all possible data patterns 32 passes are required. This test is quite effective at detecting data sensitive errors but the execution time is long.

memtest error 13 is hammer test,. even if you were just getting that it suggests new ram

https://www.memtest86.com/technical.htm
 
If sticks are getting errors individually then it is not the fact that all the memory didn't come together in a set. If the errors only pop up when ALL of the memory, or when multiple memory modules, are used together, THEN it COULD be related to differences in the sticks. (Even when they are the exact same part number but came from different production runs. Especially when they are sticks with specs OUTSIDE of JEDEC standards for that platform.)

Doesn't really matter WHAT test you get errors on, it's a fail. Doesn't matter why.

Are you testing the memory at their default settings or at their XMP profile settings?

How old is your CX unit? I'm assuming it's a green label model since I don't believe there are any 600w gray label units and THAT alone is enough to convince me that it needs to be replaced because it's well known that those older green label CX units were poor quality and especially when paired with the demands of a gaming system (But not ONLY then) they didn't last very long. (And if it HAS, then you've been lucky)

I'd get a better unit, and this might help when making that decision on what to get, exactly.

Let's start with the biggest misconception out there, which is that if a unit has high watts it will be ok or is good. Well, that couldn't be further from the truth.

There are plenty of 750-1000w units out there that I wouldn't trust to power a light bulb and might in fact be more dangerous due to their supposedly high capacity due to poor or non-existent protections inside the unit.

If the platform isn't good to begin with, how many watts or amps it says it can support is irrelevant.

Higher 80plus certification doesn't mean anything, UNLESS it is a PSU platform that we already know is good anyhow. For example, a Seasonic Prime platinum unit is going to be a better product than a Seasonic Prime Gold unit, because we already know the Prime platform is very good, and platinum efficiency along with it shows there are some improvements internally to account for the higher efficiency.

In a case like that, it might be worth it. It's likely the unit will create less heat, it will probably have better performance in regard to ripple, noise and voltage regulation. It might shave a few pennies, or dollars, off the electric bill over the course of a year.

Other than that, it is not going to perform any better than the same platform with Gold efficiency. On the other hand, just because a unit has Titanium 80plus ratings doesn't mean the unit is any good at all. For example, there are Raidmax units with Titanium efficiency and I wouldn't trust one of those to power a light bulb. There are a lot of units like this out there.

If the platform isn't good to begin with, whether or not it has an 80plus certification or not is irrelevant.

Whatever you do, don't EVER buy a power supply based on whether it has RGB or lighting, or looks like it might be a quality unit. Some of the biggest hunks of junk out there look just as good as a Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium, but I assure you, they are not. So far there are very few very good units out there that have RGB built in. Maybe one or two models, but rest assured you'll be be paying for the lighting, not for the quality of the power supply.

I don't know what country you reside in, and I know that sometimes it's hard to come by good units in some regions, but when possible, when it comes time to get that PSU, I'd stick to the following if you can.

Seasonic. Seasonic isn't just a brand, they are a PSU manufacturer, unlike many of the PSU brands you see they make their own power supply platforms AND a great many of the very good PSU models out there from other brands like Antec, Corsair and older XFX are made by Seasonic.

Just about anything made by Seasonic is good quality for the most part. There are really no bad Seasonic units and only a very few that are even somewhat mediocre. They do make a few less-good quality OEM style units, but mostly those are not going to be units you come across at most vendors, and they are still not bad. Also, the S12II and M12II 520 and 620w units are older, group regulated models. At one time they were among the best units you could buy. Now, they are outdated and not as good as almost any other Seasonic models. They are however still better than a LOT of newer designs by other manufacturers.

The Seasonic 520w and 620w S12II/M12II units CAN be used on newer Intel platforms, if you turn off C6/C7 in the bios, but I'd really recommend a newer platform whenever possible. Prices are usually pretty good on those though, so sometimes it's worth accepting the lack of DC-DC on the internal platform. Higher capacity versions of the High current gamer are not based on that platform, so they are fine. Those being the 750w and higher versions.

Most common currently, in order of preference, would be the Seasonic Focus series, then Focus plus, then Prime, then Prime ultra. It's worth mentioning that there are generally Gold, Platinum and Titanium versions within each, or most, of those series, but that does not necessarily mean that a Focus plus Platinum is necessarily better than a Prime Gold. It only means that it scored better in the 80plus efficiency testing, not that the platform is better.

Again, don't let yourself get tangled up in the idea that a higher 80plus rating specifically means that it is a better unit than another one with a lower rating, unless you know that it is a good platform from the start. All these Focus and Prime units are pretty good so you can somewhat focus on the 80plus rating when deciding which of them to choose.

Super Flower. Super Flower is another PSU manufacturer. They are like Seasonic and they make power supplies for a variety of other companies, like EVGA. Super Flower units are usually pretty good. I'd stick to the Leadex, Leadex II and Golden Green models.They also make most of the good units sold by EVGA like the G2, G3, P2 and T2 models.

Super Flower doesn't have a very broad availability for the units with their own brand name on them, and are not available in a lot of countries but for those where there is availability you want to look at the Leadex and Leadex II models. The Golden green platform is fairly decent too but is getting rather long in the tooth as a platform AND I've seen some reviews indicating a few shortcomings on units based on this platform.

Even so, it's a great deal better than a lot of other platforms out there so you could certainly do worse than a Golden green model. Units based on the Leadex and Leadex II platforms are much better though.

Corsair. The CX and CXm units are ok as a budget option, but I do not recommend pairing them with gaming cards. The newer 2017 models of CX and CXm are better than the older ones, but still not what we'd call terrific, so if it specifically says 2017 model, or it has a capacity other than an even 100, like 550w, 650w, 750w, etc., then it's likely at least better than those older ones. Aside from that, any of the TX, RMx, RMi, HX, HXi, AX or AXi units are good. Those are listed from best to worst, with the best being the AX and AXi units.

Antec. The True power classic units are made by Seasonic, and are very good, but are not modular. The High current gamer 520w and 620w, or any other PSU you see on the market that is 520w or 620w, are also made by Seasonic, based on the S12II and M12II platform for modern versions, and are pretty good units but again they are an older platform that is group regulated so if you go with a Haswell or newer Intel configuration you will want to avoid those because they do not support the C6/C7 Intel low power states.

The Antec High current gamer 750w and 850w units are very good and are not the older design, which came in 520w and 620w capacities and were good for back then but again, are an aging Seasonic platform that is not the best choice most of the time these days. Occasionally, these older units MIGHT be the best unit available and you could do worse than one of them, but a newer DC-DC platform is desirable when possible if it doesn't mean sacrificing quality elsewhere in the platform. There are however older and newer HCG models, so exact model number will likely be a factor if choosing one of these however both the older models and the newer models are good.

Antec Edge units are ok too, but reviews indicate that they have noisy fan profiles. I'd only choose this model if it is on sale or the aesthetics match up with your color scheme or design. Still a good power supply but maybe a little aggressive on the fan profile. This may have been cured on newer Edge models so reading professional tear down reviews is still the best idea.

Antec Earthwatts Gold units are very good also.

BeQuiet. BeQuiet does have a few decent models, BUT, you must be VERY selective about which of their models you put your trust in. From model to model their are huge differences in both quality and performance, even with the same series. If you cannot find a review for a BeQuiet unit on HardOCP, JonnyGuru or Tom's hardware that SPECIFICALLY says it is a very good unit, and does not have any significant issues in the "cons" category, I would avoid it. In fact, I'd probably avoid it anyhow unless there is a very great sale on one that has good reviews, because their units are generally more expensive than MUCH better units from Antec, Seasonic, EVGA and Corsair.

EVGA. They have BOTH good and not very good models.

Not very good are the W1, N1, B1, B3 (Most models failed testing), BQ, BR, BT and G1 NEX models.

Good models are the B2, G2, G2L, G3, GQ, P2 and T2 models.

FSP. They used to be very mediocre, and are a PSU manufacturer like Seasonic and Super Flower, although not as well trusted based on historical performance. Currently the FSP Hydro G and Hydro X units are pretty good.

I would avoid Thermaltake and Cooler Master.

They do have a few good units, but most of the models they sell are either poor or mediocre, and the ones they have that ARE good are usually way overpriced.

This is just ONE example of why I say that. Very new and modern CM unit. One of the worst scores ever seen on JonnyGuru for a well known brand name product. Doesn't look to be much better than a Raidmax unit. Sad.

Cooler Master Masterwatt Lite 600W review

And most of the models I have linked to the reviews of at the following link are at least good, with most of them being fantastic.

Power supply discussion thread

Certainly there ARE some good units out there that you won't see above among those I've listed, but they are few and far between, much as a hidden nugget of gold you find in a crevice among otherwise ordinary rocks and don't EVER assume a unit is good just because of the brand.

If you cannot find an IN DEPTH, REPUTABLE review on Tom's hardware, JonnyGuru, HardOCP, Hardware secrets (Old reviews by Gabe Torres), Kitguru (Only Aris reviews), TechPowerUP, SilentPC crew or a similar site that does much more than simply a review of the unboxing and basic tests that don't include reliable results for ripple, noise, voltage regulation and a complete teardown of the unit including identification of the internal platform, then the unit is a big fat question mark.

I recommend not trusting such units as companies generally always send out review samples of any unit they feel is going to get a good review, and don't send them out if they know they are going to get hammered by the reviewer. No review usually equals poor quality. Usually.


Other models that should never be trusted OR USED AT ALL, under any circumstances, include

A-Top, AK Power, Alpine, Apevia, Apex (Supercase/Allied), Artic, Ace, Aerocool (There might be one model worth using, but I'd still avoid them.), Aspire (Turbocase), Atadc, Atrix, Broadway com corp, Chieftech, Circle, CIT, Coolmax, Deer, Diablotek, Dynapower, Dynex, Eagletech, Enlight, Eurotech, Evo labs, EZ cool, Feedtek, Foxconn, G7, HEC/Compucase Orion, HEDY, High power, iBall, iStar computer co., Jeantec, JPac, Just PC, Kolink, LC Power, Linkworld electronics, Logisys, Macron, MSI, NmediaPC, Norwood Micro (CompUSA), Okia, Powercool, Powmax, Pulsepower, Q-tec, Raidmax, Rave, Rocketfish, Segotep, SFC, Sharkoon, Shuttle, Skyhawk, Spire, Startech, Storm, Sumvision, Tesla, Trust, Ultra, Wintech, Winpower, Xilence (Until I see a reputable review of a model showing different), xTreme (Cyberpower), Youngbear and Zebronics.


Back to the memory. It's kind of hard to follow what you've posted above, since you jump around a little bit. Have you encountered errors on more than one slot, regardless of which memory module has been used, or have they all been on one or two slots, the same ones, every time or at least WHEN they do show errors?

You should also LABEL the memory modules, 1, 2, 3, 4, so that you can note and keep track of which sticks are doing what.

Again tested all 4 sticks in all 4 slots. 36 errors (most in test 5, 7 and 13). First error was on the same address as before.
Upped the voltage to 1.6v, all 4 sticks in, 37 errors (most in test 5, 8 and 13). Again first error on the same address as before...

You don't mention WHICH slot this happened in, or if it was a combination of slots, which is fairly critical in trying to determine what is going on.

I would test all modules, one at a time, in all four slots, and record the EXACT results. And I would do so at the default configuration, so it would be a good idea to wipe out the BIOS settings by doing a hard reset FIRST before doing additional testing, and then go back in and reset any required changes such as fan profiles before going forward. Also, if you normally have an overclock configured for the CPU, leave IT at the default configuration for now because a bad overclock could also be causing issues during memory testing.


BIOS hard reset procedure

Power off the unit, switch the PSU off and unplug the PSU cord from either the wall or the power supply.

Remove the motherboard CMOS battery for five minutes. During that five minutes, press the power button on the case for 30 seconds. After the five minutes is up, reinstall the CMOS battery making sure to insert it with the correct side up just as it came out.

Now, plug the power supply cable back in, switch the PSU back on and power up the system. It should display the POST screen and the options to enter CMOS/BIOS setup. Enter the bios setup program and reconfigure the boot settings for either the Windows boot manager or for legacy systems, the drive your OS is installed on if necessary.

Save settings and exit. If the system will POST and boot then you can move forward from there including going back into the bios and configuring any other custom settings you may need to configure such as Memory XMP profile settings, custom fan profile settings or other specific settings you may have previously had configured that were wiped out by resetting the CMOS.​
 
If sticks are getting errors individually then it is not the fact that all the memory didn't come together in a set. If the errors only pop up when ALL of the memory, or when multiple memory modules, are used together, THEN it COULD be related to differences in the sticks. (Even when they are the exact same part number but came from different production runs. Especially when they are sticks with specs OUTSIDE of JEDEC standards for that platform.)

Doesn't really matter WHAT test you get errors on, it's a fail. Doesn't matter why.

Are you testing the memory at their default settings or at their XMP profile settings?

How old is your CX unit? I'm assuming it's a green label model since I don't believe there are any 600w gray label units and THAT alone is enough to convince me that it needs to be replaced because it's well known that those older green label CX units were poor quality and especially when paired with the demands of a gaming system (But not ONLY then) they didn't last very long. (And if it HAS, then you've been lucky)

I'd get a better unit, and this might help when making that decision on what to get, exactly.

Let's start with the biggest misconception out there, which is that if a unit has high watts it will be ok or is good. Well, that couldn't be further from the truth.

There are plenty of 750-1000w units out there that I wouldn't trust to power a light bulb and might in fact be more dangerous due to their supposedly high capacity due to poor or non-existent protections inside the unit.

If the platform isn't good to begin with, how many watts or amps it says it can support is irrelevant.

Higher 80plus certification doesn't mean anything, UNLESS it is a PSU platform that we already know is good anyhow. For example, a Seasonic Prime platinum unit is going to be a better product than a Seasonic Prime Gold unit, because we already know the Prime platform is very good, and platinum efficiency along with it shows there are some improvements internally to account for the higher efficiency.

In a case like that, it might be worth it. It's likely the unit will create less heat, it will probably have better performance in regard to ripple, noise and voltage regulation. It might shave a few pennies, or dollars, off the electric bill over the course of a year.

Other than that, it is not going to perform any better than the same platform with Gold efficiency. On the other hand, just because a unit has Titanium 80plus ratings doesn't mean the unit is any good at all. For example, there are Raidmax units with Titanium efficiency and I wouldn't trust one of those to power a light bulb. There are a lot of units like this out there.

If the platform isn't good to begin with, whether or not it has an 80plus certification or not is irrelevant.

Whatever you do, don't EVER buy a power supply based on whether it has RGB or lighting, or looks like it might be a quality unit. Some of the biggest hunks of junk out there look just as good as a Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium, but I assure you, they are not. So far there are very few very good units out there that have RGB built in. Maybe one or two models, but rest assured you'll be be paying for the lighting, not for the quality of the power supply.

I don't know what country you reside in, and I know that sometimes it's hard to come by good units in some regions, but when possible, when it comes time to get that PSU, I'd stick to the following if you can.

Seasonic. Seasonic isn't just a brand, they are a PSU manufacturer, unlike many of the PSU brands you see they make their own power supply platforms AND a great many of the very good PSU models out there from other brands like Antec, Corsair and older XFX are made by Seasonic.

Just about anything made by Seasonic is good quality for the most part. There are really no bad Seasonic units and only a very few that are even somewhat mediocre. They do make a few less-good quality OEM style units, but mostly those are not going to be units you come across at most vendors, and they are still not bad. Also, the S12II and M12II 520 and 620w units are older, group regulated models. At one time they were among the best units you could buy. Now, they are outdated and not as good as almost any other Seasonic models. They are however still better than a LOT of newer designs by other manufacturers.

The Seasonic 520w and 620w S12II/M12II units CAN be used on newer Intel platforms, if you turn off C6/C7 in the bios, but I'd really recommend a newer platform whenever possible. Prices are usually pretty good on those though, so sometimes it's worth accepting the lack of DC-DC on the internal platform. Higher capacity versions of the High current gamer are not based on that platform, so they are fine. Those being the 750w and higher versions.

Most common currently, in order of preference, would be the Seasonic Focus series, then Focus plus, then Prime, then Prime ultra. It's worth mentioning that there are generally Gold, Platinum and Titanium versions within each, or most, of those series, but that does not necessarily mean that a Focus plus Platinum is necessarily better than a Prime Gold. It only means that it scored better in the 80plus efficiency testing, not that the platform is better.

Again, don't let yourself get tangled up in the idea that a higher 80plus rating specifically means that it is a better unit than another one with a lower rating, unless you know that it is a good platform from the start. All these Focus and Prime units are pretty good so you can somewhat focus on the 80plus rating when deciding which of them to choose.

Super Flower. Super Flower is another PSU manufacturer. They are like Seasonic and they make power supplies for a variety of other companies, like EVGA. Super Flower units are usually pretty good. I'd stick to the Leadex, Leadex II and Golden Green models.They also make most of the good units sold by EVGA like the G2, G3, P2 and T2 models.

Super Flower doesn't have a very broad availability for the units with their own brand name on them, and are not available in a lot of countries but for those where there is availability you want to look at the Leadex and Leadex II models. The Golden green platform is fairly decent too but is getting rather long in the tooth as a platform AND I've seen some reviews indicating a few shortcomings on units based on this platform.

Even so, it's a great deal better than a lot of other platforms out there so you could certainly do worse than a Golden green model. Units based on the Leadex and Leadex II platforms are much better though.

Corsair. The CX and CXm units are ok as a budget option, but I do not recommend pairing them with gaming cards. The newer 2017 models of CX and CXm are better than the older ones, but still not what we'd call terrific, so if it specifically says 2017 model, or it has a capacity other than an even 100, like 550w, 650w, 750w, etc., then it's likely at least better than those older ones. Aside from that, any of the TX, RMx, RMi, HX, HXi, AX or AXi units are good. Those are listed from best to worst, with the best being the AX and AXi units.

Antec. The True power classic units are made by Seasonic, and are very good, but are not modular. The High current gamer 520w and 620w, or any other PSU you see on the market that is 520w or 620w, are also made by Seasonic, based on the S12II and M12II platform for modern versions, and are pretty good units but again they are an older platform that is group regulated so if you go with a Haswell or newer Intel configuration you will want to avoid those because they do not support the C6/C7 Intel low power states.

The Antec High current gamer 750w and 850w units are very good and are not the older design, which came in 520w and 620w capacities and were good for back then but again, are an aging Seasonic platform that is not the best choice most of the time these days. Occasionally, these older units MIGHT be the best unit available and you could do worse than one of them, but a newer DC-DC platform is desirable when possible if it doesn't mean sacrificing quality elsewhere in the platform. There are however older and newer HCG models, so exact model number will likely be a factor if choosing one of these however both the older models and the newer models are good.

Antec Edge units are ok too, but reviews indicate that they have noisy fan profiles. I'd only choose this model if it is on sale or the aesthetics match up with your color scheme or design. Still a good power supply but maybe a little aggressive on the fan profile. This may have been cured on newer Edge models so reading professional tear down reviews is still the best idea.

Antec Earthwatts Gold units are very good also.

BeQuiet. BeQuiet does have a few decent models, BUT, you must be VERY selective about which of their models you put your trust in. From model to model their are huge differences in both quality and performance, even with the same series. If you cannot find a review for a BeQuiet unit on HardOCP, JonnyGuru or Tom's hardware that SPECIFICALLY says it is a very good unit, and does not have any significant issues in the "cons" category, I would avoid it. In fact, I'd probably avoid it anyhow unless there is a very great sale on one that has good reviews, because their units are generally more expensive than MUCH better units from Antec, Seasonic, EVGA and Corsair.

EVGA. They have BOTH good and not very good models.

Not very good are the W1, N1, B1, B3 (Most models failed testing), BQ, BR, BT and G1 NEX models.

Good models are the B2, G2, G2L, G3, GQ, P2 and T2 models.

FSP. They used to be very mediocre, and are a PSU manufacturer like Seasonic and Super Flower, although not as well trusted based on historical performance. Currently the FSP Hydro G and Hydro X units are pretty good.

I would avoid Thermaltake and Cooler Master.

They do have a few good units, but most of the models they sell are either poor or mediocre, and the ones they have that ARE good are usually way overpriced.

This is just ONE example of why I say that. Very new and modern CM unit. One of the worst scores ever seen on JonnyGuru for a well known brand name product. Doesn't look to be much better than a Raidmax unit. Sad.

Cooler Master Masterwatt Lite 600W review

And most of the models I have linked to the reviews of at the following link are at least good, with most of them being fantastic.

Power supply discussion thread

Certainly there ARE some good units out there that you won't see above among those I've listed, but they are few and far between, much as a hidden nugget of gold you find in a crevice among otherwise ordinary rocks and don't EVER assume a unit is good just because of the brand.

If you cannot find an IN DEPTH, REPUTABLE review on Tom's hardware, JonnyGuru, HardOCP, Hardware secrets (Old reviews by Gabe Torres), Kitguru (Only Aris reviews), TechPowerUP, SilentPC crew or a similar site that does much more than simply a review of the unboxing and basic tests that don't include reliable results for ripple, noise, voltage regulation and a complete teardown of the unit including identification of the internal platform, then the unit is a big fat question mark.

I recommend not trusting such units as companies generally always send out review samples of any unit they feel is going to get a good review, and don't send them out if they know they are going to get hammered by the reviewer. No review usually equals poor quality. Usually.


Other models that should never be trusted OR USED AT ALL, under any circumstances, include

A-Top, AK Power, Alpine, Apevia, Apex (Supercase/Allied), Artic, Ace, Aerocool (There might be one model worth using, but I'd still avoid them.), Aspire (Turbocase), Atadc, Atrix, Broadway com corp, Chieftech, Circle, CIT, Coolmax, Deer, Diablotek, Dynapower, Dynex, Eagletech, Enlight, Eurotech, Evo labs, EZ cool, Feedtek, Foxconn, G7, HEC/Compucase Orion, HEDY, High power, iBall, iStar computer co., Jeantec, JPac, Just PC, Kolink, LC Power, Linkworld electronics, Logisys, Macron, MSI, NmediaPC, Norwood Micro (CompUSA), Okia, Powercool, Powmax, Pulsepower, Q-tec, Raidmax, Rave, Rocketfish, Segotep, SFC, Sharkoon, Shuttle, Skyhawk, Spire, Startech, Storm, Sumvision, Tesla, Trust, Ultra, Wintech, Winpower, Xilence (Until I see a reputable review of a model showing different), xTreme (Cyberpower), Youngbear and Zebronics.


Back to the memory. It's kind of hard to follow what you've posted above, since you jump around a little bit. Have you encountered errors on more than one slot, regardless of which memory module has been used, or have they all been on one or two slots, the same ones, every time or at least WHEN they do show errors?

You should also LABEL the memory modules, 1, 2, 3, 4, so that you can note and keep track of which sticks are doing what.



You don't mention WHICH slot this happened in, or if it was a combination of slots, which is fairly critical in trying to determine what is going on.

I would test all modules, one at a time, in all four slots, and record the EXACT results. And I would do so at the default configuration, so it would be a good idea to wipe out the BIOS settings by doing a hard reset FIRST before doing additional testing, and then go back in and reset any required changes such as fan profiles before going forward. Also, if you normally have an overclock configured for the CPU, leave IT at the default configuration for now because a bad overclock could also be causing issues during memory testing.


BIOS hard reset procedure

Power off the unit, switch the PSU off and unplug the PSU cord from either the wall or the power supply.

Remove the motherboard CMOS battery for five minutes. During that five minutes, press the power button on the case for 30 seconds. After the five minutes is up, reinstall the CMOS battery making sure to insert it with the correct side up just as it came out.

Now, plug the power supply cable back in, switch the PSU back on and power up the system. It should display the POST screen and the options to enter CMOS/BIOS setup. Enter the bios setup program and reconfigure the boot settings for either the Windows boot manager or for legacy systems, the drive your OS is installed on if necessary.

Save settings and exit. If the system will POST and boot then you can move forward from there including going back into the bios and configuring any other custom settings you may need to configure such as Memory XMP profile settings, custom fan profile settings or other specific settings you may have previously had configured that were wiped out by resetting the CMOS.​

Ok I'll try to phrase myself better.

Bios is @ default
First series of tests, XMP disabled

SLOT 1 + STICK 1, SLOT 2 + STICK 2, SLOT 3 + STICK 3, SLOT 4 + STICK 4 = FAIL 28 ERRORS
SLOT 1 + STICK 1 = pass
SLOT 2 + STICK 1 = pass
SLOT 3 + STICK 1 = pass

SLOT 4 + STICK 1 = memtest froze on first try, pc didn't boot up again.. had to wait 5 minutes unplugged then it booted again. On 2nd try it passed

SLOT 1 + STICK 2 = pass
SLOT 1 + STICK 3 = pass
SLOT 1 + STICK 4 = pass

SLOT 1 + STICK 1, SLOT 2 + STICK 2 = pass
SLOT 3 + STICK 1, SLOT 4 + STICK 2 = pass

SLOT 1 + STICK 1, SLOT 2 + STICK 2, SLOT 3 + STICK 4 (grabbed the wrong stick here) = pass

SLOT 1 + STICK 1, SLOT 2 + STICK 2, SLOT 4 + STICK 4 = pc didn't boot. replaced STICK 4 with STICK 3, booted and passed test

----------------------------------------------------------------------
XMP profile 1

SLOT 1 + STICK 1, SLOT 2 + STICK 2, SLOT 3 + STICK 3, SLOT 4 + STICK 4 = FAIL 25 ERRORS on 1st pass
SLOT 1 + STICK 1, SLOT 2 + STICK 2, SLOT 3 + STICK 3 = pass

Tried interchanging sticks 3 and 4 here:

SLOT 1 + STICK 1, SLOT 2 + STICK 2, SLOT 3 + STICK 4, SLOT 4 + STICK 3 = fail

At this time, I figure it's either SLOT4 or STICK4, so:

SLOT 1 + STICK 4 = pass
SLOT 4 + STICK 4 = pass


Now I don't know what else to try, hope I've covered enough.. Just looks like the mobo doesn't like all 4 slots populated anymore,

For now I've removed STICK 4 from SLOT 4, running on 12gb of memory (still in dual channel according to memtest).
Gonna replace the PSU asap (yes it's a green label CX600), and test with all 4 sticks again, the problem is tho getting a "high quality" PSU in our country may be difficult or/and expensive af..
 
would have been easier to track the progress in a table.

seems Stick 3 got an easy ride in the XMP off tests

slot 1slot 2slot 3slot 4
stick 1passpasspassfailed once, passed 2nd time
stick 2passpass
stick 3pass
stick 4passpasspass

But it seems to work fine in a test with 3 sticks - XMP tests

slot 1slot 2slot 3slot 4
stick 1pass
stick 2passpass
stick 3pass
stick 4passpass

there sure are some gaps there.
 
would have been easier to track the progress in a table.

seems Stick 3 got an easy ride in the XMP off tests

slot 1slot 2slot 3slot 4
stick 1passpasspassfailed once, passed 2nd time
stick 2passpass
stick 3pass
stick 4passpasspass

But it seems to work fine in a test with 3 sticks - XMP tests

slot 1slot 2slot 3slot 4
stick 1pass
stick 2passpass
stick 3pass
stick 4passpass

there sure are some gaps there.

Yea I know, but testing all possible combinations, and each stick in each slot will take days..

Btw, another clock_watchdog_timeout just now with only 3 sticks
 
Get new PSU as suggested and see if that stops the errors.

otherwise stick 3 still an unknown until its tested or replaced.

Will do, found a fairly reasonable priced seasonic in an online store..
Otherwise, 3 more clock_watchdog_timeouts in between when trying to play.. Ended up removing stick 3 aswell, so running on just 2 sticks. 1 more clock_watchdog after that when trying to start Rainbow Six siege..

So it's basically gettings worse by the minute..
 
When you say "passed", how many passes are you using to qualify a test as a "pass"? 1? 4?

Just as an FYI, if there is a physical problem with the memory or a configuration problem with the memory settings, it would ALWAYS fail somewhere along the way when doing four full passes, or it would NEVER fail in those tests but might in other tests like a custom setting of Prime or a Blend test. But it would be consistent.

Being inconsistent tells me that it is either a motherboard issue or a power supply issue. Something that COULD be ok one time and not the next. And the fact that there is a time component, which usually means something is being allowed to cool down at which time it works ok, speaks to me of the possibility of a capacitor failure or thermal problem somewhere.

Those are just my thoughts, but maybe they are helpful.

Look at the motherboard and see if there are any leaking or bulging capacitors visible, or any hot spots anywhere where it has burnt or discolored the PCB.

A different PSU would tell a lot. If it doesn't fix the problem then I'd replace the motherboard or at least tear down and triple check with a magnifying device whether or not there might be minutely bent pins on the CPU socket. Since the problem didn't exist previously, that's doubtful, and given the age of the platform a motherboard failure wouldn't be unrealistic. Of course, even brand new board failures aren't unrealistic either. I'd also make sure to disconnect ALL of the storage devices except the one containing the Memtest bootable media when testing as well to make sure that a problem with one of them is not causing the problem due to a short or other issue with those devices. Something with an out of spec draw could drop the system voltage too low to pass testing.
 
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I've personally never seen memory pass four passes and then fail after that anyhow on any of the standard 11 tests (Since two of the full 13 tests are not available in the free version.)

If it is going to fail, it generally does so in the first four passes, but, IF it WAS going to fail after that it would be due to the memory already being warmed up by previous testing so running another four passes immediately following the first four would bring on the same error regardless. There is no difference in what routines the memory gets put through as the test pass number gets higher, so pass 2 is the same tests as test 4, or 16, if you could do that many passes. Thermals are what changes.
 
Honestly I've let it pass 2 full times, every time except when it started to produce errors I've canceled after first pass..

I understand it's suggested to let it pass 4 times, but as said It'll take days for me basically sitting beside a non-working computer waiting for it to finish..
Anyways first of all I will replace the psu, if it won't help, 2 new memory modules.. Will cost me ~200€ but I can live with that..
Finding a decent motherboard might be another adventure, because there is not even one new lga1150 in our country to get..

Also, case is pretty good ventilated (HAF935), just recently replaced all the fans, cable management is more or less done etc.. Also the motherboard, on close-ish inspection still looks like brand new. I've really been keeping it in the best condition as possible those years..
Although one thing that I might think of is, I haven't replaced the thermal paste on the cpu for some time now (2 years?), so there might have got some fine dust into the cpu socket? Or atleast arround it where canned air doesn't reach it.. WIll completely dissmantle it when the PSU arrives..


For now, thank you all for your help..
 
Thermal paste won't cause the problems you're having. Ever.

If you get two memory modules, be sure to get two memory modules that add up to the full amount of memory you want to run. Running four sticks is OFTEN a source of problems even when the memory is all matched in a set and is good quality because it's double the amount of voltage and stress on the memory controller. It is always less problematic to run two sticks than four when possible.

Plus, getting two new sticks will still be adding disparate memory to existing memory. When you are outside of JEDEC defaults, which is generally 1333mhz for later DDR3 systems, all bets are off when using mixed kits as has been mentioned previously.
 
Thermal paste won't cause the problems you're having. Ever.

If you get two memory modules, be sure to get two memory modules that add up to the full amount of memory you want to run. Running four sticks is OFTEN a source of problems even when the memory is all matched in a set and is good quality because it's double the amount of voltage and stress on the memory controller. It is always less problematic to run two sticks than four when possible.

Plus, getting two new sticks will still be adding disparate memory to existing memory. When you are outside of JEDEC defaults, which is generally 1333mhz for later DDR3 systems, all bets are off when using mixed kits as has been mentioned previously.

I didn't mean the thermal paste, as I said above, I mean the dust that might have gathered around and perhaps in the cpu socket itself. I guess you didn't understand me or misread it..

With two new memory sticks, I also meant replacing all four old sticks with two new ones..