Surface Pro Set For January 26 Launch, Says Microsoft Store

[bystander]

@w8gaming:
You keep mentioning Atom as different than x86 based tablets. Atoms are x86 chips, they are just the low power variants.

 

[Darkerson]

[citation][nom]DjEaZy[/nom]... useless garbage...[/citation]
...useless comment...

 

[acyuta]

Maybe worth the high price for the features it may have. However, too late for me as I just bought an IPAD 4 last week. Could not wait any longer. MS should have shortened the time being announcement and launch. Too much gap and people start losing interest.

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]acyuta[/nom]Maybe worth the high price for the features it may have. However, too late for me as I just bought an IPAD 4 last week. Could not wait any longer. MS should have shortened the time being announcement and launch. Too much gap and people start losing interest.[/citation]
They really aren't comparable. If an iPad is good enough for your needs, you'd have little desire for an Surface Pro. The Surface Pro is more of an ultrabook, with a table form factor. The iPad is far less in that regard.

 

[diddo]

It would be nice an option "do non stick a Zune GUI over my desktop".

 

[ojas]

[citation][nom]w8gaming[/nom]It is interesting to see almost all the negative comments here are about price, instead of concerns like much shorter battery life, limited storage in relation to the average software size in Windows world, weight and such. That actually implies that many of you are actually VERY INTERESTED in such a product, only the price is holding you back. And if you look at the components went into making Surface Pro, it is obvious why it is being priced at this level. Hint Intel CPU. And in 2013, vendor might try to make tablets with AMD APU and that will brings the price down. Atom based Windows tablet is already available in the market and is priced only slightly above Surface RT. Current generation of Atom Z2760 has similar performance of a Pentium 4 and so running older game such as Age of Empire 2, Baldur's Gate 2 etc should not be an issue. Atom based tablet is also much lighter than the x86 based tablets, some models are even lighter than iPad2. They also have long battery life that can rival iPads. In term of raw CPU performance, Atom CPU is still ahead of the ARM based tablets in the market as well. If there is any shortcoming compared to the ARM based tablet, Intel has paired Z2760 with a weak GPU. Maybe other vendor might try AMD C-60 in such category in the future for better graphics performance.I think there will be a lot of different CPU+GPU variants in the 2nd generations of W8 tablets. Not sure why there is no vendor offering anything based on AMD APU at the moment. Maybe no one dare to take the risk to offer a less popular brand while their competitors are all putting Intel CPU in their tablets.[/citation]
This isn't an Atom based tablet. It has a freaking Core i5 in it.

 

[ojas]

[citation][nom]therogerwilco[/nom]One other thing nobody is taking into consideration is this:Intel recently announced a few weeks/a month ago, that they're producing a low wattage cpu coming out 1Q 2013. Furthermore today I saw an article about 'limited edition' cpu's (I think the first was cloverfield, this is haswell iirc) and they'll be sub-10w power requirements. In either case, the runtime of these will be dramatically different than previous wattage cloverfields (if that is still what's going in the Surface Pro vs the limited edition haswell) so all the speculation of "omg the battery life will suck!" is completely unnecessary and most likely the negative point apple fans are trying to push.I think ultimately w8gaming and several others have the right idea, this is the FIRST generation of the devices. Bottom line. Also, their current specs are superior to the first several generations of the Ipad and of course the android tablets. Furthermore, I believe the Surface RT and Pro beat all other Ipads hands down for the simple fact of including a USB port. I consider this a common sense feature, Apple (even under Jobs) made the mistake of trying to change the users habits instead of tailoring the product FOR the users. I'm sure Steve Jobs would have loved to see it, merely because even though I'm not an Apple fan, I always had the feeling he appreciated fine pieces of technology, a piece of art if you will, that many products have come to be.[/citation]
Colver Trail is an Atom SoC, containing 2 Saltwell cores. Their architecture is different from architectures like Sandy/Ivy/Haswell, it's a derivative of the Core architecture (Conroe/Penryn), but still not the same.

What you remember are low powered Ivy Bridge parts, which were sub-13w CPUs. The low powered i5 is likely the one in the surface pro. only the pentium was sub-10w in that slide.

While the Tegra 3 in the Surface RT is underpowered for the purpose, and hence inferior to the A5X in the iPad 4, the Pro has a Core i5 which is obviously superior to the A5X SoC.

Haswell might hit 8w and compete with the ARM Coretex A15 in terms of power, i expect performance to bu much greater.

Read more here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown/14

and for a Qualcomm based Windows RT device:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6528/samsung-ativ-tab-review-qualcomms-first-windows-rt-tablet

 

[w8gaming]

Well, my opinion has always been Atom is a full x86 CPU. It will run all applications or games that can run on a normal desktop computer. It has a lot less performance in order to achieve a very power efficient design. But still, a modern day Atom is really in the same league of typical CPUs being used 7-8 years ago. So in term of raw processing power, that's still pretty impressive. Meanwhile ARM CPU is more like 10 years behind current desktop processing power.

As it is, current generation of Windows 8 tablet is able to play several older Windows games smoothly. Older classics such as Diablo 2, the earlier Sims, the earlier Heroes of Might and Magic, Galactic Civilizations etc should have no issue at all. The biggest issue would be the user interaction as touch UI is not that optimal for games that geared towards keyboard and mouse input. For that, there are several alternatives and workaround.

(1) You can run the game in windowed mode, and dock the onscreen keyboard beneath the window as input, with resolution as high as 1920x1080, there are plenty of screen space to accomodate that as older game tends to cater of lower resolution anyway. So you can have a 800x600 window on top, and still has 400+ pixels at the bottom for onscreen keyboard.

(2) You can get a bluetooth mini keyboard such as http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/rii-mini-wireless-keyboard-is-perfect-for-your-htpc-not-your-wi/, and use that for keyboard and mouse input.

(3) Finally, you can also use your iPhone/iPod/iPad or Android devices or Windows phone as input, by running an app which act like a keyboard and mouse for the Windows 8 tablet. Such as:
http://airkeyboard.skygears.com/
http://www.unifiedremote.com/

 

[MichaelSP]

This would be quite a useful system for people going to university then having a laptop or desktop at home for more intensive work. Although, it will be interesting to see what Australian price tags come with it. Most stuff seems dearer here. Still, nice to know it is an option although I wonder how it compares to an ultrabook.

 

[hoofhearted]

I hope it can play Skyrim. I know it should be able to handle all of my GOG collection.

 

[back_by_demand]

I hope they go straight to the extra high street retail outlets they did with the RT, then we will see purchases from the "casual" buyer, i'm sure one reason for the uptake of Android tablet amongst the non-techy masses is because it is right under your nose as soon as you walk into Best Buy. If Android tablets were only purchased from a website the uptake would be just as low.

 

[ojas]

[citation][nom]w8gaming[/nom]Well, my opinion has always been Atom is a full x86 CPU. It will run all applications or games that can run on a normal desktop computer. It has a lot less performance in order to achieve a very power efficient design. But still, a modern day Atom is really in the same league of typical CPUs being used 7-8 years ago. So in term of raw processing power, that's still pretty impressive. Meanwhile ARM CPU is more like 10 years behind current desktop processing power.As it is, current generation of Windows 8 tablet is able to play several older Windows games smoothly. Older classics such as Diablo 2, the earlier Sims, the earlier Heroes of Might and Magic, Galactic Civilizations etc should have no issue at all. The biggest issue would be the user interaction as touch UI is not that optimal for games that geared towards keyboard and mouse input. For that, there are several alternatives and workaround. (1) You can run the game in windowed mode, and dock the onscreen keyboard beneath the window as input, with resolution as high as 1920x1080, there are plenty of screen space to accomodate that as older game tends to cater of lower resolution anyway. So you can have a 800x600 window on top, and still has 400+ pixels at the bottom for onscreen keyboard. (2) You can get a bluetooth mini keyboard such as http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05 [...] t-your-wi/, and use that for keyboard and mouse input. (3) Finally, you can also use your iPhone/iPod/iPad or Android devices or Windows phone as input, by running an app which act like a keyboard and mouse for the Windows 8 tablet. Such as:http://airkeyboard.skygears.com/http://www.unifiedremote.com/[/citation]
What? Yes, Atom is based on the x86 ISA but its microarchitecture is not the same as the Core, Celeron or Pentium chips. In it's current form, it's an SoC.

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]ojas[/nom]True, i doubt that keyboard is worth more than $25 anyway.[/citation]
If people are prepared to pay over $49 for one of these...
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD454LL/A/ipad-smart-case-polyurethane-dark-gray
which doesn't have a keyboard built into it, then I think maybe $119 for one of these...
http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/accessories/touch-cover
Might be pretty reasonable, especially when Apple are also selling iPad keyboard at $69 a pop
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_ipad/ipad_accessories/keyboards#s=priceLH
Seems like Microsoft have the same price in a single device, usually you pay a premium for things like that and that is rated directly MS against Apple, surely when the 3rd party peripheral people get involved like Logitech we will see a glut of similar items and who wins? Us the consumer.

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]If people are prepared to pay over $49 for one of these...http://store.apple.com/us/product/ [...] -dark-graywhich doesn't have a keyboard built into it, then I think maybe $119 for one of these...http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/e [...] ouch-coverMight be pretty reasonable, especially when Apple are also selling iPad keyboard at $69 a pophttp://store.apple.com/us/browse/h [...] #s=priceLHSeems like Microsoft have the same price in a single device, usually you pay a premium for things like that and that is rated directly MS against Apple, surely when the 3rd party peripheral people get involved like Logitech we will see a glut of similar items and who wins? Us the consumer.[/citation]
Apple did have a more comparable type cover at the bottom of that list you linked. It was listed at $99.99 dollars. So it is pretty comparable.

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]Apple did have a more comparable type cover at the bottom of that list you linked. It was listed at $99.99 dollars. So it is pretty comparable.[/citation]
That was made by Logitech and is made from aluminium, totally flat keys like the Touch cover but 8mm thick so even thicker than the Type cover, it is a poor comparison and having actually used one it is not very good.

 

[ojas]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]If people are prepared to pay over $49 for one of these...http://store.apple.com/us/product/ [...] -dark-graywhich doesn't have a keyboard built into it, then I think maybe $119 for one of these...http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/e [...] ouch-coverMight be pretty reasonable, especially when Apple are also selling iPad keyboard at $69 a pophttp://store.apple.com/us/browse/h [...] #s=priceLHSeems like Microsoft have the same price in a single device, usually you pay a premium for things like that and that is rated directly MS against Apple, surely when the 3rd party peripheral people get involved like Logitech we will see a glut of similar items and who wins? Us the consumer.[/citation]
Yeah but...just because...something is overpriced, doesn't mean everything else should be competing to be overpriced...
Look at what happened to phones.
Before Apple came out with their iPhone and started selling it for over Rs.40,000 ($730 by today's exchange rate) in India, the most expensive phones used to be from Nokia or Sony Erricsson priced at Rs.30k. Samsung, HTC, Sony and now Nokia as well have all started selling their flagships at the 40k mark.
Thankfully Nokia and Sony drop prices pretty quickly.