Question Swapping to a liquid cooler.

Benladen

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I currently have the Ryzen 3 3200g with the stock cooler but the noise the stock cooler makes when playing games is too loud. I was wondering if the
Cooler Master MasterLiquid 120mm lite would be a better choice for this CPU which is on the ASUS Prime A320M-K motherboard.
 

Phaaze88

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Is it 'revving', or is the cooler simply too loud for you?
I know the 3200G isn't Matisse, so it shouldn't behave like them, but I want to be sure.

The only time 120 and 140mm hybrid coolers are ever worth it is when the user can't fit a decent air cooler in an M-ITX or other really tiny chassis.
Horrible price to performance metric otherwise.
 

Benladen

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Is it 'revving', or is the cooler simply too loud for you?
I know the 3200G isn't Matisse, so it shouldn't behave like them, but I want to be sure.

The only time 120 and 140mm hybrid coolers are ever worth it is when the user can't fit a decent air cooler in an M-ITX or other really tiny chassis.
Horrible price to performance metric otherwise.
It gets so loud that I have to turn my PC off because I think it is going to overheat and die on me. My case is pretty small so that is why I was heading towards the liquid cooler.
 
I currently have the Ryzen 3 3200g with the stock cooler but the noise the stock cooler makes when playing games is too loud. I was wondering if the
Cooler Master MasterLiquid 120mm lite would be a better choice for this CPU which is on the ASUS Prime A320M-K motherboard.
What's your case? Wouldn't bother with a small AIO. Go 240mm or not at all. Maybe look at a better air cooler though there's plenty that will offer better audio levels for not much money.

EDIT: It won't die on you they have a thermal limit that they hit then dial back the clocks to prevent the chip overheating. The stock cooler does get very loud.
 

Benladen

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What's your case? Wouldn't bother with a small AIO. Go 240mm or not at all. Maybe look at a better air cooler though there's plenty that will offer better audio levels for not much money.

EDIT: It won't die on you they have a thermal limit that they hit then dial back the clocks to prevent the chip overheating. The stock cooler does get very loud.
Thank you for the reply, my case is Cooler Master MasterBox Lite 3.1 Mini-Tower
 

Phaaze88

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It gets so loud that I have to turn my PC off because I think it is going to overheat and die on me. My case is pretty small so that is why I was heading towards the liquid cooler.
Ok. Not revving, but just gets too loud for you.
Reason enough to want to change it.

Cooler Master MasterBox Lite 3.1
Aww crap. Not this thing again...
I have to ask, what kind of load thermals does your cpu see?
If you just have the APU, and not a dedicated gpu, I'd imagine thermals aren't too bad in that chassis.
 

Benladen

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Ok. Not revving, but just gets too loud for you.
Reason enough to want to change it.


Aww crap. Not this thing again...
I have to ask, what kind of load thermals does your cpu see?
If you just have the APU, and not a dedicated gpu, I'd imagine thermals aren't too bad in that chassis.
It is paired with the RX 580
 

Benladen

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You can have a 240mm in the front of that case. Also how many fans do you have in it, where are they and what kind are they? Just the stock ones or have you thrown some decent ones in?
3 fans two are the front and one at the back, looking to upgrade those too, possibly silent fans
 
First of all, consider the possibility that your stock cooler is not mounted well.
If it is not tightened down evenly it will not perform properly.
That will cause the cooler fan to spin up.
Noise comes from small fans running at high rpm.
A 120mm fan running at 900 rpm is all but inaudible.
1200 rpm is reasonable.
Once you are past 2000 rpm you get noisy.
Pick your poison; cooling or quiet.
Two front 1200 rpm intake fans should be able to provide sufficient cooling air to match a tower type cpu air cooler with a 120mm fan as well as a rx580.
Something like a noctua NH-U12s or NH-U12a
You will get some low noise adapters so you can tune the noise/cooling equation.
I mention noctua because they make very good quiet fans for their coolers.
A hyper212 is popular and cheap but a bit difficult to mount well.
A 120 aio is still really air cooling. the difference is where the heat exchange takes place.
120 aio will be using a 120mm fan, and usually they have to work a bit harder than one on an air cooler.
 

Karadjgne

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At 240mm or below, there's realistically no difference between aircoolers and liquid coolers. The CM hyper212 evo 120mm tower gets exactly the same performance as a Corsair H60 120mm AIO.

So for the intended purpose of lowering noise outputs, either cooling method works the same. The differences will be found in which model, not which type. Some coolers are just better than others. Noctua makes a fantastic series of aircoolers, at a premium price. Artic makes very good aircoolers for a considerably cheaper price.

So whichever form you chose, the function will be the same, or close enough, it'll depend on your case measurements, cpu clearance height, budget etc as to exactly what you can get that'll work as intended.

Any of the 140w 120mm cooling solutions will be a good step up from the stock cooler, far quieter, but since noise is generated by fans, you should look for a cooler that comes with better/quieter fans as being more important than the Almighty Degree value.

And that's without mentioning aesthetics. Some ppl just prefer a certain look over specific performance.
 

jasonf2

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At 240mm or below, there's realistically no difference between aircoolers and liquid coolers. The CM hyper212 evo 120mm tower gets exactly the same performance as a Corsair H60 120mm AIO.

So for the intended purpose of lowering noise outputs, either cooling method works the same. The differences will be found in which model, not which type. Some coolers are just better than others. Noctua makes a fantastic series of aircoolers, at a premium price. Artic makes very good aircoolers for a considerably cheaper price.

So whichever form you chose, the function will be the same, or close enough, it'll depend on your case measurements, cpu clearance height, budget etc as to exactly what you can get that'll work as intended.

Any of the 140w 120mm cooling solutions will be a good step up from the stock cooler, far quieter, but since noise is generated by fans, you should look for a cooler that comes with better/quieter fans as being more important than the Almighty Degree value.

And that's without mentioning aesthetics. Some ppl just prefer a certain look over specific performance.
One other thing to add. Water coolers are mechanically more complicated and less reliable because of it. If you don' t have a performance gain and a specific need for the performance gain water is in my opinion overrated. I ran AIOs for a while and have moved back entirely to big air coolers. Just like fans fail so do pumps. They are not silent and when they fail thermals go to bios shutdown levels. AIOs are very popular but I look at them kind of like I look at liquid nitrogen. If you aren't going to aggressively overclock the increased heat exchange characteristics do very little good in normal use scenarios.
 

Karadjgne

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One other thing to add. Water coolers are mechanically more complicated and less reliable because of it.
Depends on your point of view. The 305 V8 in my 1987 Caballero is vastly more mechanically complicated and yet 33 years later, it's still running just fine.
If you don' t have a performance gain and a specific need for the performance gain water is in my opinion overrated.
Overrated is probably not the right word. Liquid cooling in any form is extremely misunderstood. If it's applied correctly, it's somewhat superior to aircooling. Aircooling is just much easier to get acceptable results.
Just like fans fail so do pumps.
Most fans have an MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) of about 50,000 hours. Pumps are usually 50,000-100,000 hours. You have to move upto Noctua to get a 150,000 hr fan.
They are not silent and when they fail thermals go to bios shutdown levels.
My nzxt x61 was dead silent, literally needed to stick my head into the pc to hear the hum. Almost all pumps are similar since they are mostly vatients of asetek or coolit designs, and most often totally inaudible over the noise of rad/case fans unless specifically looking to hear it or using uber silent fans on low rpm.
I retired that nzxt when both the fans failed after 6 years 24/7 usage, the pump still going strong. Since most ppl revamp/replace their system in 4-5 years, including a new cpu cooler, longetivity is overrated. Pump failures at that time are often just the excuse ppl use to finally upgrade, which they had planned to do anyway, just never got around to it.

If the fan/s on an aircooler fail, the cpu will also go to thermal shutdown levels, often in less time. Only a fully functional cooler prevents that from happening, doesn't matter if it's liquid or air. On the other side of the coin, if the fans on an aio fail, you'll have plenty of time to shutdown as the rad itself will still be functional as a passive heat exchanger.
AIOs are very popular but I look at them kind of like I look at liquid nitrogen. If you aren't going to aggressively overclock the increased heat exchange characteristics do very little good in normal use scenarios.
Eh, disagree with that I do. Except about the popularity. The function of any liquid cooling is the same as any air cooling, it just does it in a different way. Liquid and air both have drawbacks and bonuses. A major drawback of air is its limited capacity, even mainstream cpus can tax the largest/best aircoolers, with very little OC. Like a i9 9900k/s vs NH-D15 at 5.0Ghz locked core. I can get 5.0GHz on my i7-3770K and not see past 72°C, it's the 9900k/s core count that makes such a massive difference.

And you will not get anything larger than a Noctua NH-U9s in my current case, yet I can stick a 2x240mm rad full custom loop cpu/gpu in it. (nCase M1 v6, mITX uSFF, think shoebox and you'll be close)

Liquid is just as useful and able as air, the biggest real difference is in preference, not ability.
 
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jasonf2

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Depends on your point of view. The 305 V8 in my 1987 Caballero is vastly more mechanically complicated and yet 33 years later, it's still running just fine.

Overrated is probably not the right word. Liquid cooling in any form is extremely misunderstood. If it's applied correctly, it's somewhat superior to aircooling. Aircooling is just much easier to get acceptable results.

Most fans have an MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) of about 50,000 hours. Pumps are usually 50,000-100,000 hours. You have to move upto Noctua to get a 150,000 hr fan.

My nzxt x61 was dead silent, literally needed to stick my head into the pc to hear the hum. Almost all pumps are similar since they are mostly vatients of asetek or coolit designs, and most often totally inaudible over the noise of rad/case fans unless specifically looking to hear it or using uber silent fans on low rpm.
I retired that nzxt when both the fans failed after 6 years 24/7 usage, the pump still going strong. Since most ppl revamp/replace their system in 4-5 years, including a new cpu cooler, longetivity is overrated. Pump failures at that time are often just the excuse ppl use to finally upgrade, which they had planned to do anyway, just never got around to it.

If the fan/s on an aircooler fail, the cpu will also go to thermal shutdown levels, often in less time. Only a fully functional cooler prevents that from happening, doesn't matter if it's liquid or air. On the other side of the coin, if the fans on an aio fail, you'll have plenty of time to shutdown as the rad itself will still be functional as a passive heat exchanger.

Eh, disagree with that I do. Except about the popularity. The function of any liquid cooling is the same as any air cooling, it just does it in a different way. Liquid and air both have drawbacks and bonuses. A major drawback of air is its limited capacity, even mainstream cpus can tax the largest/best aircoolers, with very little OC. Like a i9 9900k/s vs NH-D15 at 5.0Ghz locked core. I can get 5.0GHz on my i7-3770K and not see past 72°C, it's the 9900k/s core count that makes such a massive difference.

And you will not get anything larger than a Noctua NH-U9s in my current case, yet I can stick a 2x240mm rad full custom loop cpu/gpu in it. (nCase M1 v6, mITX uSFF, think shoebox and you'll be close)

Liquid is just as useful and able as air, the biggest real difference is in preference, not ability.
This isn't worth the fight, but I will make the debate points.
  1. A CPU cooler isn't a car. Liquid coolers are mechanically more complicated than air. The require a pump, separate radiator, coolant, fans and possibly an additional controller. Air coolers have a heat exchanger and fans.
  2. I still stick with overrated. Look at the performance reviews of top rated big air and water coolers and big air doesn't trail water by that much.
  3. Water coolers have fans too.
  4. Some coolers are better than others but pump hum and noise are present in most. The fan positioning is also typically closer to the exterior of the case with water coolers. As stated before big air has fans, so do water coolers.
  5. Fan failure isn't the primary fail mode on AIOs. The pump is. When the pump fails there is no heat exchanger on the cpu to soften the blow like with big air. A failed pump on an AIO is like running without a heat sink.
  6. Case size can be a problem with either type. The laws of thermal dynamics dictate how large the heat exchangers have to be and they have to go somewhere.
  7. I don't disagree with your last statement. However there is a hype surrounding liquid cooling and a "cool" (no pun intended) factor that goes with it that pushes many builders to it without realizing its drawbacks. All I am doing here is point those out. This individual is running a Ryzen 3, not a threadripper. Water cooling is questionable here at best at a 65w tdp and a stock 4ghz boost.
 

Karadjgne

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Wasn't looking for a fight, lol, just pointing out some stuff that many never think about or are ignorant of, all in the hopes of educating the op and others.
  1. You forgot that any heatsink that uses heatpipes also has a liquid factor, the heatpipes are hollow, not solid, and partially filled with a heat responsive liquid that resembles the mercury in an old fashioned thermometer. Realistically, the only thing extra an aio has is the pump. Any tower cooler has the same components as an aio. And yes those heatpipes can leak, welds on the stack fail, bases can be warped, aircoolers have just as many factory fails as aios do.
  2. This gets confusing. Performance and ability are not the same, often confused. Yes, aircoolers quite often have slightly better performance in the same ability range, but that's on a test bench with predetermined settings, not a user's pc and somewhat questionable airflow characteristics. Which can drastically affect outcomes.
  3. Yes, water coolers have fans too, but most cases do not. This is often forgotten when ppl start in on air is cheaper, it is, up until the point you add $60+ for 3x rgb case fans etc, just to get the same airflow the aio already has.
  4. Same as 3.
  5. Welcome to viral YouTube. I'd venture that if a fan fails on an aio, it never gets a video, never gets a question here etc. When a pump fails, or even a leak, you can bet there's a video and/or question and it's viral, with all the sheep bleeting about how bad aios are. Fan failure, case or air or rad is a definite thing, but so commonplace and expected it simply is not newsworthy. A fan fails on an aio, you replace it and life goes on as before, never saying a thing. A pump fails, you get a new cooler and make sure everybody knows you just got robbed.
  6. Agreed, that's part of the bonus/drawbacks of the seperate systems, it's very case dependent for load not just preference.
  7. Both systems have drawbacks and bonuses, the only question should be, which can you live with. Me personally, I understand the differences and much prefer liquid, and not just for its looks, especially since my case has no windows.
As you say, it's a relatively small load package, either 120mm system will have roughly the same outcome, a lowering of cpu temps. It'll be upto the cooler itself as to how much of a difference that is.
 
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jasonf2

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Wasn't looking for a fight, lol, just pointing out some stuff that many never think about or are ignorant of, all in the hopes of educating the op and others.
  1. You forgot that any heatsink that uses heatpipes also has a liquid factor, the heatpipes are hollow, not solid, and partially filled with a heat responsive liquid that resembles the mercury in an old fashioned thermometer. Realistically, the only thing extra an aio has is the pump. Any tower cooler has the same components as an aio. And yes those heatpipes can leak, welds on the stack fail, bases can be warped, aircoolers have just as many factory fails as aios do.
  2. This gets confusing. Performance and ability are not the same, often confused. Yes, aircoolers quite often have slightly better performance in the same ability range, but that's on a test bench with predetermined settings, not a user's pc and somewhat questionable airflow characteristics. Which can drastically affect outcomes.
  3. Yes, water coolers have fans too, but most cases do not. This is often forgotten when ppl start in on air is cheaper, it is, up until the point you add $60+ for 3x rgb case fans etc, just to get the same airflow the aio already has.
  4. Same as 3.
  5. Welcome to viral YouTube. I'd venture that if a fan fails on an aio, it never gets a video, never gets a question here etc. When a pump fails, or even a leak, you can bet there's a video and/or question and it's viral, with all the sheep bleeting about how bad aios are. Fan failure, case or air or rad is a definite thing, but so commonplace and expected it simply is not newsworthy. A fan fails on an aio, you replace it and life goes on as before, never saying a thing. A pump fails, you get a new cooler and make sure everybody knows you just got robbed.
  6. Agreed, that's part of the bonus/drawbacks of the seperate systems, it's very case dependent for load not just preference.
  7. Both systems have drawbacks and bonuses, the only question should be, which can you live with. Me personally, I understand the differences and much prefer liquid, and not just for its looks, especially since my case has no windows.
As you say, it's a relatively small load package, either 120mm system will have roughly the same outcome, a lowering of cpu temps. It'll be upto the cooler itself as to how much of a difference that is.
In systems where high heat loads are present water wins. But as literally billions of air cooled machines out there today have shown in most mainstream applications air coolers are just fine too. They both have their pitfalls and I think it is also safe to say that both are close enough that in the majority of cases where quality products are used it is more of a matter of preference than performance.
 

rubix_1011

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If you Google for 'AIO failures', you will undoubtedly will find AIO failure articles and videos. The result is inherently the direct product of the inquiry - in fact, I'd wager that you will nothing but 100's, maybe even 1000's of articles and links about failures.

It's like telling someone you are going to the Zoo or the circus but don't expect to find either people or animals there. Absurd.

"My friend said they might leak"

Cool story, we've heard this on the forums for over a decade now. Friends are nice, but friends don't know everything. It's worth it for you as a consumer to do some investigation to see if your friend's advice is correct or not.

Consider that for the 100's or 1000's of 'bad AIO stories' you might find on the web to the millions upon millions of AIOs which are sold overall. Its a minuscule percentage and well within margin of error. Even then, many are RMA'd because of user error or incorrect installation....not AIO defect. So, while there is a very small possibility your friend might be correct, I am assuming it is because of only the focus on 'failures' rather than overall product satisfaction.

AIO failure rate is actually quite low, but much like the phone or internet service, people aren't calling in all the time to tell them how great they are working, rather, they only call to complain when there is a problem.



Disclaimer: I test AIOs for Tom's Hardware and they are published on the site as reviews. I don't use AIOs at my house: I'm an avid custom watercooling guy (19+ years) and would likely choose good air cooling over any AIO with very, very few exceptions.
 

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