System Builder Marathon: $2,500 Enthusiast PC

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]inveriti[/nom]It seems like Tom's doesn't read their own reviews... In their own GPU chart, they never recommend a 3x SLi system, and not without reason. The last card only gives a third of its on-paper output. Also, why the hell get 3 TB of storage? Do you plan on pirating that many DVD's or burning that much money on them? And only 3 GB of RAM? No, sorry, you're dropping the ball on this one. NO "enthusiast" would sacrifice a solid 6 GB of good RAM in Vista for a uselss hard drive and ostentatious third video card.Follow your own recommendations, guys. Get an ATI 4870 x2, put the money into better RAM and cooling, then use what's left to get a pair of Raptor hard drives as workhorses and a 1 or 1.5 TB hard drive for media storage if you want to use all your $2500.[/citation]

Another person who can't read, the system used 3GB of RAM because the benchmark writers haven't updated their custom benchmarks to use x64. x64 was tried in October and its unfortunate that the benchmarks were limitted.

You wouldn't have to give up a drive to get 6GB, you could use the money left over. And it's not a 3TB array, it's a 2TB array made of 3x 1TB drives for redunce. You'd rather have them pay similar money for smaller drives?

 

[jcknouse]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]You didn't read that the system it was being compared to HAD two 4870 x2's? And it still lost? Because 3x 260 Core 216 beats 2x HD4870 X2.If you can't read, don't write.[/citation]

wow...ummm...meowwwwwwww?

btw...anyone at Tom's tell me what temps the machine reached at extended time full-bore operation?

Thanks

 

[Onus]

The Coolermaster RC-690 provides an isolated air path for a bottom-mounted PSU (if it uses a 120mm or 140mm fan; add a piece of cardboard if you have an end-mounted 80mm fan). This makes one of the initial observations about that design simply wrong, but there was a good point made about dust, so I will add a dust filter to mine.
3-way SLI is insane. I consider that an irresponsible use of money. The addition of a 3rd GPU just doesn't make sense, unless perhaps you don't have another power outlet available for a space heater (and plan to take it out in the summer). I suppose you were determined to spend $2500, but would you really recommend this build to your readers? I suspect a pair of HD48x0s in Crossfire, and a 64bit OS with 6GB of RAM would be a more likely recommendation. Am I reading it right that you limited the OS to 32bit because some benchmarks won't run? Ok, that allows for an apples-apples comparison, but is only a part of the story. Sorry, I would simply NOT build a rig like this; not for $2500, or for any other amount of money.

 

[one-shot]

My favorite part of the SBM's are all the people nit picking and whining about the small details. BE HAPPY! No system will be the perfect way you want it. There are too many variables. Make your own Website, your own builds and see if people want to read it!

 

[jcknouse]

[citation][nom]one-shot[/nom]My favorite part of the SBM's are all the people nit picking and whining about the small details. BE HAPPY! No system will be the perfect way you want it. There are too many variables. Make your own Website, your own builds and see if people want to read it![/citation]

Good idea! I'll get right on that...right after i retire in 2028. lmao!!

 

[Onus]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]You didn't read that the system it was being compared to HAD two 4870 x2's? And it still lost? Because 3x 260 Core 216 beats 2x HD4870 X2.If you can't read, don't write.[/citation]

Ummm, I can't be sure this is true. I'd need to see that pair of HD4870X2s in the current i7 rig before accepting this at face value. I also suspect the result, whichever way it goes, could easily depend on the multi-GPU optimizations in each individual game.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]jtt283[/nom]The Coolermaster RC-690 provides an isolated air path for a bottom-mounted PSU (if it uses a 120mm or 140mm fan; add a piece of cardboard if you have an end-mounted 80mm fan). This makes one of the initial observations about that design simply wrong, but there was a good point made about dust, so I will add a dust filter to mine.3-way SLI is insane. I consider that an irresponsible use of money. The addition of a 3rd GPU just doesn't make sense, unless perhaps you don't have another power outlet available for a space heater (and plan to take it out in the summer). I suppose you were determined to spend $2500, but would you really recommend this build to your readers? I suspect a pair of HD48x0s in Crossfire, and a 64bit OS with 6GB of RAM would be a more likely recommendation. Am I reading it right that you limited the OS to 32bit because some benchmarks won't run? Ok, that allows for an apples-apples comparison, but is only a part of the story. Sorry, I would simply NOT build a rig like this; not for $2500, or for any other amount of money.[/citation]

The power supply is supposed to be part of the ventilation system. By giving it an isolated path, you're removing one exhaust fan from the CPU area. If you put a fan at the top of the case, where the power supply should have been anyway, you get the case ventilation back but make more noise in the process. And adding a dust filter only gives you another filter to plug, how often do you clean yours?

Finally, 3x GTX-260 Core 216 pulls about the same amount of power as 2x HD 4870 X2's. Probably less at idle, 4870X2's are very power hungry. But, 3x GTX-260 Core 216's give more performance than 2x 4870X2's, look at the game benchmarks for proof.

BTW, 3GB RAM was a shame, but feel free to use 6GB of RAM with 3x GTX-260 Core 216's.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]jtt283[/nom]Ummm, I can't be sure this is true. I'd need to see that pair of HD4870X2s in the current i7 rig before accepting this at face value. I also suspect the result, whichever way it goes, could easily depend on the multi-GPU optimizations in each individual game.[/citation]

That's true, the worse you game scales for multiple GPU's the worse 4x 4870 graphics processors will look. It's a good thing that a single GeForce 260 Core 216 edges out a single 4870, or the configuration might have been a mistake!

 

[weinheimer]

I like the SLI... it's just more widely advantageous than crossfire and with better drivers, but I just can't bring myself to spend $300 on a motherboard or $780 on video cards. A singles slot 4870 / 4870x2 / GT 260 / 280 is plenty and the price performance of Q9550 and P45 leaves more money for a nice monitor, additional raid storage or even an NAS.

I'm just not fanatic enough to be cutting edge at premium price. I'll take 95% performance for 60% of the price any day.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]weinheimer[/nom]I like the SLI... it's just more widely advantageous than crossfire and with better drivers, but I just can't bring myself to spend $300 on a motherboard or $780 on video cards. A singles slot 4870 / 4870x2 / GT 260 / 280 is plenty and the price performance of Q9550 and P45 leaves more money for a nice monitor, additional raid storage or even an NAS.I'm just not fanatic enough to be cutting edge at premium price. I'll take 95% performance for 60% of the price any day.[/citation]

The fun fact is that fewer readers would have complained about a 2x GTX 280 solution, yet it costs more and performs worse than 3x GTX 260 Core 216.

 

[roofus]

Nice article. Thanks TH!
I think if anything I would have changed it maybe would have been more RAM but that is a very affordable kit, so I can see grabbing it to get up and going then possibly upgrade later if I felt cheated out of any performance.

 

[Onus]

I think weinheimer makes my point a little more clearly. It just isn't worth the money.
I would say that only in the cheapest builds is a PSU a necessary part of the overall cooling. Yeah, most people don't strain their PSUs very much, but if you do, then asking it to cool your system as well as itself is asking for failure.
The top fan I added to my RC-690 is inaudible at the 8.0v at which it normally runs.
I'll take a ding on the filter cleaning; I'm sure not often enough, although probably 2-3 times a year.

 

[QuanTums]

I agree with many of the other posters...this is not an optimum build for most. 3x SLI Video and 3x 1TB drives is silly. Having only 3GB ram is silly.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]Quantums[/nom]I agree with many of the other posters...this is not an optimum build for most. 3x SLI Video and 3x 1TB drives is silly. Having only 3GB ram is silly.[/citation]

And so what would you suggest? Something sillier?

 

[roofus]

It is a 2500 dollar enthusiast PC.. If you aren't an enthusiast of course it seems silly but not to someone who spends that kind of money or more annually on their computer.
Best of luck Crashman. I think the point is missed entirely.

 

[fo0b4er]

Wow, either I'm totally wrong in my thinking or this doesn't make any sense! You have a 32-bit OS which is capable of addressing ~4096MB of memory. Your three graphics cards have a combined memory of 2688MB! This means that your OS should only be using less than 1.5GB of your system RAM! Did you check for this? Am I totally wrong?

 

[DXRick]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]Another person who can't read, the system used 3GB of RAM because the benchmark writers haven't updated their custom benchmarks to use x64. x64 was tried in October and its unfortunate that the benchmarks were limitted....[/citation]

Are you aware of this review on THG?: Report: 3GB vs 6GB RAM on Core i7 Benched

Using Vista 32-bit and 3G RAM because of a few benchmarks, does not do us gamers any favors!!

 

[Crashman]

Wow, either I'm totally wrong in my thinking or this doesn't make any sense! You have a 32-bit OS which is capable of addressing ~4096MB of memory. Your three graphics cards have a combined memory of 2688MB! This means that your OS should only be using less than 1.5GB of your system RAM! Did you check for this? Am I totally wrong?

No, because the memory addresses of all three cards are the same, the information read by the three cards is redundant.

 

[zodiacfml]

i could have also said that as a first poster but their point is to maximize the budget to give best performance which they did, beating the $4500 october machine. though, i don't like RAID and if there's a dual 2GB DD3 memory kit.

yet, you still have a small point that is not explained. building a dual or triple sli makes sense only on improving the FPS on highest details of two games, supreme commander and crysis. on other games, using a single card solution will suffice and dx11 cards will come out 2009 that might improve performance on crysis.
what not optimal is the budget.

if you asked me, i'll get a core i7, xigmatek/thermalright heatsink, single highend video card, a velicoraptor and 1tb drive, and 4GB of dual channel DD3.

[citation][nom]Quantums[/nom]I agree with many of the other posters...this is not an optimum build for most. 3x SLI Video and 3x 1TB drives is silly. Having only 3GB ram is silly.[/citation]

 

[Tindytim]

Am I the only one that read the article on SLI versus Crossfire scaling?

SLI scaled better, and it made more sense to use a multi-SLI solution. If it was a single card, they'd go with an ATI solution.

 

[inveriti]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]And so what would you suggest? Something sillier?[/citation]

It seems your forte is insulting other people's posts. A single 260 and a single 4870 are roughly equivalent in both price and performance, the latter of which depends upon the game. The comparison you draw between this month's system and October's is invalid, largely because you assume the other components are the same. This one usues a brand new architecture that offers better DDR3 utilization, improved interfacing with the PCIe slots, and better bandwidth in the processor and chipset themselves. October's uses the now old Core2 architecture. You can't compare one to the other and say the performance change is exclusively based upon the graphics cards.

What most of us who disagree with this build are saying is that in real-world builds intended for real-world use, we would have Vista x64 with 6 GB of RAM, and forego the RAID array. In my experience, a bad drive Has not been my main problem with losing data. It's the semi-annual reformat to wipe the slate clean of the gunk that regular usage creates that prompts me to use multiple drives. A RAID array doesn't help with that. All it does is stripe and clone the same crap across three drives. I'd rather make regular backups manually.

I'm not an ATI or nVidia fanboy, so I look for the best bang for my buck. I understand the limitations Tom's has with its benchmarking suites and recognize the influence it has on their choices for hardware, I simply think that these choices go against many of their previous recommendations I have read in other articles comparing 3x SLi to 2x SLi and CrossFire. With that said, thank you, sir, I can read quite well.

 

[stonedallday420]

[citation][nom]dieseldre2k[/nom]appreciate the article but i would drop the third HD (keep the other 2 in RAID)[/citation]

You need the 3rd HDD for raid 5, which is the best data securing raid setup.

 

[geotech]

I"m curious as to why more ram and Photoshop CS4 Was not used. With it being 64bit on windows now I would love some benchies.

 

[fo0b4er]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]No, because the memory addresses of all three cards are the same, the information read by the three cards is redundant.[/citation]

Hey thanks for explaining that crashman. I still can't believe this worked for them though! To give you the full story, I bought this motherboard and its currently sitting in its box because I am too afraid to open it! I wanted to save the option of reselling it because of this: http://www.evga.com/support/faq/afmviewfaq.aspx?topicid=40&faqid=58304. I want to use it with XP 32-bit and 3GB of RAM. I've had many conversations with the EVGA tech people and they've told me that with a 32-bit OS and this board, only 2GB of RAM is ever useable. So why the heck is this working for the Tom's people?!

 

[fo0b4er]

Sorry here's the link:
http://www.evga.com/support/faq/afmviewfaq.aspx?topicid=40&faqid=58304