System Builder Marathon: $2,500 Enthusiast PC

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HAHA, reading some of the comments it seems to me that the uber gamers are a bit pissed of with the impressive results of a $2500 system... Last month they ran out to spend more money and now are beaten into submission...
The comments made about this rig not being "mad" enough should not forget that more is to come in the $4500 rig, which will have kick ass results im sure...

Crashman must be getting tired of repeating himself so if you thinking of placing a new comment, read up first!

P.S. There are many ways to achieve impressive benchmark results, not 1 of them is the best and many fair well. So dont diss the hardware choices, its a fruitless debate...
 
ok, so maybe there wont be another $4500 build, but the point remains, you can also get faster and better...

Toms, maybe do a "uber" build to show everyone how mad a person can go, and what the actual performance gains are compared to your builds... This will shut the performance junkies up and show the people who buy with some budget restrictions in mind that they dont need to spend a fortune on a good machine... Performance/value will be thrown out the window.
 
I think it would've been much nicer to raise this budget and use a couple of
Radeon HD4870X2 instead of the 3 GTXs, I think the build would've exhibited very good gains in Crysis & would've been a nicer build While we wait for the
GTX 295.(bearing in mind that the Radeon cards have an unused inter GPU bridge
Which will be enabled by futuer Drivers
 
Youssef, if you'd read the thread you would have seen the comments that, [fixable] bugs aside, the 3way SLI will out-perform the 2 HD4870X2 cards.
Personally, I still wouldn't build this machine, but as far as maximizing performance, they probably got it right (at least for a month or so).
FWIW, in a personal machine I probably would have used a single GTX280 or a pair of HD4850s, "dropped" the PSU to an Antec Signature 650W, and thrown in a single fast OS drive (probably 150GB Velociraptor over SSD), keeping the RAID for storage. I will readily admit the graphics performance would be a lot less (but visible only in a couple games I don't play, like Crysis), but I suspect I'd have had a higher bang for the buck.
I wouldn't mind seeing a budget HTPC build myself. As to a machine strictly for office productivity, I don't think the interest will be there. You'll hear a lot of "Get a Dell." This type of machine, which must emphasize stability and low TCO above all else, just won't be leading-edge enough to hold most peoples' interest. The build topics contain a lot of threads about this kind of PC.
 
A better way to do this is to remind the person with less money that they have two other lower systems to choose from and keep the high end system not make three lower end systems and no high end. No reason not to add 3 more gigs of ram and a PCIE sound card.
 
what I meant with my comment is showing the maximum power of the new processor when paired with the fastest card currently available in crossfire
(I understand the budget reasons but would've liked to see the performance of this configuration
 
I have a question, directed towards the author / Toms' team. Since benchmarks are limited to 32bit with 3gigs of ram, would one reason you see 260GTX 3 way sli better on benchmarks because you get 3 gigs of ram with 896MB dedicated towards video memory (3 way sli is redundant) and the 48x0 has larger video memory 2X1GBtaking more away from the operating system?

People have claimed the higher end video cards like the 4870X2 are cpu limited as well. I dont plan on purchasing my next processor until 32mm rolls around. Would the increased clock speads of next gen processors remove that limitation or is it a motherboard arcitecture pathway limitation as in we would need more bandwidth via the pci-e pathway, ex pci-e 3.0 vs 2.0?
 
Great article and a nicely done build. I am looking to copy this build but with some modifications since I am not a gamer. More RAM, a single 4850X2 (no 3-way) and a RAID card (2xfast HDDs in RAID 0 to improve i/o and a RAID 5 setup for data storage). I use Ubuntu as my primary OS and run Windows and related apps in virtual machines. Could anyone please comment on how Ubuntu (any flavor of linux) will work with this system?
 
[citation][nom]elerick[/nom]I have a question, directed towards the author / Toms' team. Since benchmarks are limited to 32bit with 3gigs of ram, would one reason you see 260GTX 3 way sli better on benchmarks because you get 3 gigs of ram with 896MB dedicated towards video memory (3 way sli is redundant) and the 48x0 has larger video memory 2X1GBtaking more away from the operating system?People have claimed the higher end video cards like the 4870X2 are cpu limited as well. I dont plan on purchasing my next processor until 32mm rolls around. Would the increased clock speads of next gen processors remove that limitation or is it a motherboard arcitecture pathway limitation as in we would need more bandwidth via the pci-e pathway, ex pci-e 3.0 vs 2.0?[/citation]

Because the memory is mapped identically, 896MB per card is mapped as 896MB total. 1GB per graphics processor is also mapped as 1GB total. 32-bit operating systems can map a total of 4GB RAM, including graphics RAM mapping, so....

With 3GB system RAM and 1GB graphics RAM, you still have 3GB System RAM left.

If course, there could be OTHER devices in the system that have RAM that needs to be mapped...I didn't see a high-end sound card or RAID controller in this one.
 
[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]Oh, I get it, use a 128MB SSD and load only a few games. Then, put in a lesser graphics solution and PRETEND it's a gaming PC. Great suggestions, all outrageous.[/citation]


As much as I appreciate you taking the time to answer questions/explain the teams reasoning for components on these threads, you need to chill out a little. Granted, the comment you were responding to wasn't the smartest around but this response, as well as the majority of your posts could be much more calm and explanatory.

The few times Chris commented, he dealt with the same stupidity on these threads you do but in a much more controlled and helpful manner.

Again I do appreciate your input here but please be a little more HELPFUL rather than insulting.
 
[citation][nom]jtt283[/nom]I wouldn't mind seeing a budget HTPC build myself. As to a machine strictly for office productivity, I don't think the interest will be there. You'll hear a lot of "Get a Dell." This type of machine, which must emphasize stability and low TCO above all else, just won't be leading-edge enough to hold most peoples' interest. The build topics contain a lot of threads about this kind of PC.[/citation]

You are right... I guess Productivity was the wrong word to use... I didnt mean like MS Office etc... How about "Non-Entertainment". Here are a few examples of what I mean...

Home Server - Authentication/File/Print/Media(Encoding/Decoding/Streaming).
Video Editing - Editing/Rendering HD Video with Effects in Realtime or Near Realtime.
VM Server - 10/20 or more VMs, some servers, some clients, all running simultaneously.

I'm definitely not thinking about things you would not want to do with say the typical Dell Dimension or OptiPlex... Sure you could get a Dell Precision Workstation with SAS RAID 5 and Dual CPUs with Quad Cores. I would consider that pretty leading edge and it leads to a myriad of component questions around what the price/performance points are for various High Speed Storage, CPU & Memory configurations.

But again, I agree, a true "Productivity System" would be a pretty weak system build.

Regards,
TechDicky
 
[citation][nom]TechDicky[/nom]Sure you could get a Dell Precision Workstation with SAS RAID 5 and Dual CPUs with Quad Cores.[/citation]

I meant to follow that up with a comment that, if you are going to spend $5k on a system, I think you can do much better than buying a Precision Workstation, if your geek enough to build it yourself...
 
If my armchair calculations are correct, it would get more bang for your buck if you forgo the multiple GPUs and replace them with a single powerful gpu of your choice and liquid cool the CPU and GPU and overclock them. Your cooling solution may approach $600 and not get as high FPS in some games but at the end of the year you can swap out that single card and OC the 285 or 295 for chump change.

Also this way you are utilizing 100% of the GPU, instain of having one card you are getting 75% from and a third you are getting maybe 30% from> SLI and three-way is wasteful.
 
[citation][nom]neuroelectronic[/nom]If my armchair calculations are correct, it would get more bang for your buck if you forgo the multiple GPUs and replace them with a single powerful gpu of your choice and liquid cool the CPU and GPU and overclock them.[/citation]

You can't do that with Newegg, and all the parts came from there. Newegg doesn't have the water blocks for it, and if they did you'd still need monster radiators to get the kind of clock speed you're talking about.

In fact, I'm fairly certain that you'd want sub-ambient cooling.
 
Would have liked to see Vista 64 (toms it's time to re-write your programs) and more memory for an Enthusiast system 4GB is a Joke my 3 year old XP machine with a AMD 3700+ has 4GB of RAM. Not to mention the timing of this review waiting a week or two for the retail release of the GTX 295 i think would have preferable also. More performance for the same cost of a 4870X2 1 graphics card like that would still free up some money for other things such as RAM and Vista-64

Also i was really hopping to see a SSD HDD in the high end system. I have seen a few 64GB ones out there for very reasonable prices around the $250 Mark. Having a separate drive for the OS is in my opinion always preferable. Then you can move the OS Disk cache to a separate physical drive for better performance. Even if not that then a Velociraptor. I could see either of these items in a daily used system.
 
[citation][nom]jtt283[/nom]Had you read the thread before posting, you would have seen that the 64bit benchmarks ARE being written, and hopefully will be ready soon.[/citation]

yes, there is a timeframe for 64-bit scripts, but it's not immediate and the person who writes them has other duties. A site-wide 64-bit conversion is being considered for early Spring. That still leaves the next SBM or two without the scripts.

The only choices for the next 1-2 SBM's are to either leave out the productivity suite, or to continue using 32-bit Vista. Neither of these choices is great. Though many readers are only interested in game benchmarks, most will use include "everything else" in their daily use. The productivity suite was specifically chosen to meet the needs of the largest possible number of readers.
 
this is outrageous!!!
the radeon 4870x2 costs round 3500 kuna's in Croatia or should I say 700$
everything is overpriced...with my budget and these prices I would have one icantevenimaginehowpowerfull rig...and i cant't buy from other countryes because: a) I don't own a credit card yet...I'm 17yrs old
b) it would cost me even more

p.s. Croatia is Europe...or to be exact in Balcan,from where niko bellic is😛
oh and one dollar is equal to five kuna's...just for the sake of comparisom
 
[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]The only choices for the next 1-2 SBM's are to either leave out the productivity suite, or to continue using 32-bit Vista. Neither of these choices is great. Though many readers are only interested in game benchmarks, most will use include "everything else" in their daily use. The productivity suite was specifically chosen to meet the needs of the largest possible number of readers.[/citation]

I realize you fellers are in between a rock and a hard place, but there's always something that doesn't sit right with me when an enthusiast PC has less ram than mine.
Though it's not optimal to let those benchmarks go, I have to wonder how valid the results really are considering at least some must to better with the added RAM.
I think the general consensus here (maybe it's just my opinion and I'm an arrogant prick) is that we're going to have to say farewell for those benchmarks for now.
 
2x 4870x2 in crossfire is better than 3x or even 4x 260's, 3x 280's for me... why? Take a look at the numbers for 2560x1600 gaming... the 4870x2's are still going strong.... The 260's have fallen off the map.

That's why I own 4870x2's.
 
[citation][nom]jtt283[/nom]Had you read the thread before posting, you would have seen that the 64bit benchmarks ARE being written, and hopefully will be ready soon.[/citation]

don't make assumptions that i did not read the thread just because i decided to voice it also. Maybe they should have waiting before doing this build to put together a more comprehensive build and tests with Vista 64 instead of blowing thread load early like a 16 year old teen on there first try.
 
[citation][nom]bobiseverywhere[/nom]don't make assumptions that i did not read the thread just because i decided to voice it also. Maybe they should have waiting before doing this build to put together a more comprehensive build and tests with Vista 64 instead of blowing thread load early like a 16 year old teen on there first try.[/citation]

They do this thing once a month. Are you suggesting just skipping the next couple of months because they don't have x64 support for a couple of benchmarks?
 
[citation][nom]litpmike[/nom]No cheap water blocks?Danger Den has i7 water blocks starting at $42 thats not cheap?[/citation]

No they don't, because if it's not at Newegg it doesn't exist. Newegg has been sponsoring this series for a few months.
 
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