System Builder Marathon: $625 Gaming PC

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[citation][nom]Farrwalker[/nom]System still needs:OS (about $90 to $100)monitor (about $120 to $140 for a 19" LCD)Keyboard ($10)mouse ($6 to $20)These four items could range from about $230 to $270 if you got items from the low end of the price range.[/citation]

$20 for a gaming mouse?
 
budget build sounds fun :) here's my thought for a HTPC build

Thermaltake VF1000SNA Silver Aluminum MicroATX $110
Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB 7200RPM $ 70
DIAMOND AIWHD3650PM HD3650 512MB w/ ALl In Wonder $190 (150 after MIR)
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) PC6400 $ 40
ASRock G41M-LE LGA 775 Intel G41 Micro ATX $ 65
OCZ OCZ700MXSP 700W Modular + Intel E7300 CPU $190 (155 after MIR)

total: $665 (590 after MIR)

grand total: $674 (after shipping)

:)
 
@30/12 08:20PM GMT
Changed to E5200, changed to a powercolor HD4850, changed HDD to a 500GB Spinpoint F1, changed memory to an OCZ Titaniun XTC 4GB, dumped the Artic Cooling cooler and voilá...$498 after MIR.
 
Antec 300: $60
LG DVD Burner: $24
Foxconn A7DA-S: $115
Powercolor Radeon 4850: $145
OCZ ModXStream Pro 500W + Seagate 500GB/32MB = $115
AMD Phenom 9850 BLACK EDITION + OCZ 4GB DDR2 800 = $175

Subtotal: $634
Total (mail-in rebates + shipping costs): 577.53

That's a 3+ Ghz capable quad that can fit in your budget PC bracket.
 
I put together a value AMD build yesterday via newegg.

cpu : amd 5000+ - $49.50
ram : ocz Fatal1ty branded - $35.99
mobo: gigabyte ga-ma74gm-s2 -$54.99
case: gigabyte gz-x2spd-500 - $38.00
video: HIS hd4670 IceQ turbo - $79.99 (actually thought about buying one to try over my 3870 for temperature purposes.)

dvdrw - $20-25

Total price is under $400 for a powerful budget build.
 
May I ask why they selected 800Mhz DDR2 memory for this build and not 1066Mhz?

I mean, the pricedifference is supposedly minimal, and performance increases.
Or does the setting not work fine with this speed of RAM?
 
[citation][nom]ProDigit80[/nom]May I ask why they selected 800Mhz DDR2 memory for this build and not 1066Mhz?I mean, the pricedifference is supposedly minimal, and performance increases.Or does the setting not work fine with this speed of RAM?[/citation]

Read something:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ddr2-ram-memory,2079.html

There's no point in buying cheap DDR2-1066 when properly-selected DDR2-800 clocks higher.

In fact, you might say there is no such thing as DDR2-1066, just DDR2-800 with a factory O/C rating.
 
I know faster RAM costs more, but would the same be true for 1100Mhz and faster memory? (just oc'ed 800Mhz RAM?
 
*Sigh*

Drop that CPU, get an AMD5000+ ($50). With the saved $70, get a GTX260 for $199, leaving a good $20 left over. Put it into the PSU and get a decent 500w Antec or Corsair for $70ish after rebate.

Way. Better. Gaming. Machine.

Who builds these things at Toms? Come on guys. Do you folk even play games?
 
[citation][nom]malveaux[/nom]*Sigh*Drop that CPU, get an AMD5000+ ($50). With the saved $70, get a GTX260 for $199, leaving a good $20 left over. Put it into the PSU and get a decent 500w Antec or Corsair for $70ish after rebate.Way. Better. Gaming. Machine.Who builds these things at Toms? Come on guys. Do you folk even play games?[/citation]Did you notice I mentioned a GTX 260 or HD 4870 was out of budget paired with an E5200 at the time? More GPU power was the goal.

Keep in mind, (despite the "gaming" name tag of this rig), games represent 25% of the SBM benchmarks, and the system needs to perform in all tests. Your system there with a huge compromise in CPU power would get destroyed in the majority of the test suite.

Besides, even if running 3.0-3.2GHz the Athlon X2's would do far worse in Forged Alliance and CPU limited games than an OC'ed Intel, so it's questionable whether it's a WAY better gaming rig; High res or FSAA, yeah probably true. Clean sweep... very doubtful. It would be a fun comparison in a large game suite to see just when each solution shines. If I find the time, I'll run some of these sbm game benchies on my own AX2 / HD 4850 rig. It won't be the comparison you mentioned, but it will look into the CPU difference in these games.
 
Paul,

Despite the title? It's a gaming machine. Period. Or it's not. You went with a gaming machine. I happen to have an AMD5000+ and I play with a high end GPU and you know what? It's beautiful. I can play all the latest games at max resolution on my 37" 1080p HDTV 1920x1080 at high settings, some with 4xAA enabled. That 4850 cannot do that. A GTX260 can.

Your synthetic benchmarks are pointless.

Play some games.

I read every word of your `article.' You don't seem to actually play games or use a system for gaming, if this is proof of what you've `learned' from it all. A gaming machine does NOT need more than an average dual core. You don't need performance in the 100's of FPS. You just need the performance in the 50's and 60's at your highest settings. The HD4850 can't do it in a lot of games at 1920x1080, but a GTX260 can, even on an AMD5000+ CPU.

I challenge you to take an average CPU system, slap a powerful GPU in it, power it properly, and then play your games at the settings that are best for your display. The higher GPU pays off way more in a budget build than a more powerful CPU.

I don't care what your CPU difference is in a future test. Test a GAME at high resolution and settings. Budget systems can perform great. Just get a good GPU and you're fine. What are you calling "worse?" It's beyond playable. You need to stop looking at numbers and play the games. This `worse' performance you speak of is completely not noticeable because the game is already running perfectly. Get out of text and numbers and get in a game. There's a cut off point where you just don't notice the `exceeding performance' that you don't NEED to play a game.

Very best,
 
Actually, I prefer "Value PC", but the "gaming pc" name has been around a while for the cheap Tom's builds and initially was not my choice to go with considering the test suite and all. Still, it does fit though as we do strive to build a top gamer for the budget. But it still needs to show up for the other tests; games are obviously not the only consideration for the SBM's, regardless of the system name.

LOL, believe me, I do play games and don't value synthetics much myself either. Unfortunately, these SBM's rob my play time though. Luckily with a day off, I logged a good number of hours into Fallout 3 today.

To be honest, performance testing games is my favorite part of all hardware testing. Shoot, that's the main reason I wrote the A64 gaming article a few months ago that highlighted just how well the X2's can still do. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/athlon-gaming-benchmark,2054.html

And I'm value oriented, so no arguments from me claiming that a cheap PC can't game. I'm no stranger to playing on AX2 rigs either and have a couple of them in gaming rigs on my home LAN. "Running Perfectly" is a huge stretch though if you broaden the scope of games you play and want to play max details including CPU related settings. The minimum fps affects smooth gameplay and is far lower on a CPU like that. I think you would be surprised how much better your gameplay could be with a decent clocked C2D vs that X2 5000+. But, I'm glad it keeps you happy and I totally agree with you the GPU is more often than not far more important, just as long as you have enough CPU. Also, I consider your 19x10 to be a high resolution where of of course your GPU can shine (and was a good choice). Still, your kidding yourself if you think the overall level of gameplay (in ALL games) is even close to what it could be with a high clocked C2D CPU. Do you overclock the 5000+? If so, you know the CPU is quite important. Crysis I saw a huge benefit in actual gaming FPS overclocking my Q6600 over 3.0GHz(paired with SLI 8800GT).

And as far as your challenge ... I've had something in the works and if it pans out... you may enjoy seeing it. (Fingers crossed)

Happy New Year Marveaux; All the best back at ya.
 
Ref the gaming spec of this PC, Supreme Commander FA is GPU limited, so a more powerful GPU is highly relevant, and if that means AMD, so be it.
In fact, although owning a Q6600 (+Nvidia 7800GT), I am yet to be convinced SCFA uses more than one core at a time.
 
Cotton - Supreme Commander stresses both the CPU and GPU at these settings. With the OC'ed E7300 the HD 4850 was holding us back. We will strive as a top priority to get more GPU into this budget build, but not at the expense of being embarrassed in the other SBM tests. Last month, even say the X2 5000+ savings of $30 would cause the need to shave about $20 somewhere else if we were lucky enough to have the single $199 GTX 260 in stock at the time the order went through. And then still, max overclcoked the E5200 would have smoked the X2 5000+ in the majority of the SBM suite and there would plenty of readers questioning that choice too.

There were talks about bumping the budget to allow dual HD 4803's into the budget, but readers did seem to like the $600-650 range. It's looking very promising to get a GTX 260 or HD 4870 512MB into next month's system. Still, E5200 + GTX 260(192) or HD 4870 512MB costs roughly the same as X2 5000+ + GTX 260(216) or HD 4870 1GB, so decisions need to be made and neither option will probably please everyone.

Take a look at how these stock clocked CPUs scale in average FPS paired with a GTX 280 OC. Overclocking we would see higher scaling until we are GPU bound. More resolutions and minimum fps would add to the overall gameplay evaluation. Also notice it is multi-threaded, as a stock Q6600 can beat the higher clocked E8600:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-q3-2008/Supreme-Commander-Forged-Alliance-1680x1050,821.html
 
After reading the configuration I had a good laugh. This is really close to the configuration I purchased on NewEgg.com (and built up)back in October. I wonder if Toms does its research on the public purchase lists on sites like NewEgg *scratching head*? See "Budget v1 w/o PSU;Motherbaord" in the public listing for proof. Only difference is I got the ASUS Rampage motherboard, and Enertec 650W PSU at 1/10th the normal price at the LA computer fair so it was less than $600.
Its nice to have vendors that don't know what they're selling 8)
 
Im from Canada, and how about this ?

HP a6500f computer: $399.99 CAD
nforce 630i/geforce 7100 motherboard
onboard sound
onboard networking
500 GB Sata HDD
4GB DDR2 RAM
Intel Dual Core 2.40 GHz
Lightscripe DVD burner
Card Reader
HP Keyboard + mouse
Vista home premium 64 bit

+ XFX Geforce 8800 Ultra: 199.99 CAD
+ Ultra 550 W PSU: 70 CAD

Total: 670 CAD = 556 USD
and I also have a stock 250W PSU doing nothing in a closet, lol


 
I was building my new system when I noticed This article.
Price tag was $645.90. specs..

1.Windows XP Pro SP3 $149.99 -vista seems to be cheeper the xp????
2.Black ATX Mid-Tower Case with 450-Watt Power Supply $29.99
3.HP DVD1040i Lightscribe Dvd burner $29.99
4.Thermaltake TR2-R1 &14.99
5.Seagate Barracuda ST3320613AS 7200.11 320GB Hard Drive $59.99
6.Sapphire Radeon HD 4670 X2 in Cross Fire $159.98
7.OCZ Vista Edition Dual Channel 2048MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz X2 $19.99
8.AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Processor 3.1GHz $80.99
9.TFORCE TA790GXA2+Motherboard AMD 790GX $99.99

I think the limiting factor was the Gpu not the Cpu. And to much time in this article was spent on Overclocking the cpu.

I think running 2 4670 in cross fire will beat there $625 system


 
Actually HD 4670's in Crossfire at best trade blows with a stock HD 4850. IMO you would be better off with a single overclocked HD 4850. Dual HD 4830's do very well, but are also $70-80 more money.

The CPU overclocking provided huge gains in the majority of the testing suite, giving more bang for the same buck (well, almost the same buck, adding the $26 cooler and more power consumption).

No doubt the GPU was holding us back in games on the OC'ed PC. But, even in games, the CPU does matter. At stock speeds this month's system with the E7300 beat last month's E5200 system by 1-17%(average 10%) using the same video card, same motherboard, and same system memory speeds/timings. Only difference was the CPU and graphics driver version (Cat 8.11 vs 8.12). But the E5200 overclocked higher erasing that lead, providing better bang for buck.
 
Hi Paul,

As i was on a budget I had to trim the "fat".. I do know the cpu can limit
the fps..However I don't think A 3.1GHz x2 would be the limiting factor on a Low Budget system...

I was trying to get the most "bang for the buck" with my system.
needless to say, 2 4670's in Crossfire will better a 4850 at stock speeds... you can google this!

But a good article none the less..just should have used a cheaper cpu





 
To be clear chfireball, I think it's a nice gaming machine for the money at just $500 without the OS. Enjoy it. My biggest concern is not the 4670's but the $30 case/PSU combo(because of PSU quality).

As far as the Graphics cards, that's my PC passion. I've pretty much read every review I can find on crossfire HD 4670's and if I had felt they can beat the 4850 would have considered them for these SBM's. In synthetics crossfire 4670's look good vs the 4850. But in actual games, I'd say "trading blows" (win some/lose some)is fair. If you have links showing otherwise, I'd appreciate seeing them though. I'd love a chance to review dual 4670's in min and ave fps through a large game suite.

More CPU was a reader request and under the circumstances worth looking into the E7300; too bad the price changed $10 on us. Would have been nice to have received a lower VID e7300 that could hit 4.0GHz. I agree with you next time we need a cheaper CPU and more GPU. Just wish 4830 crossfire were possible.
 
There is a 4670 crossfire review over at tweektown. And it's directly compared to a 4850. However after looking at the review again, I can agree with you they would just be "trading blows"
 
I have a suggestion. I'm curious what kind of gaming build you guys can come up with using a console budget (b/t $250- $399). One of the posters on the neogaf forums actually built a $399 PC that runs crysis on medium and everything else at essentially 720p resolution and b/t 30-60 fps with a little AA in some cases.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237787

Of course, his setup was done last year and since you guys are more intimate with components, it'd be interesting to see if you guys can trump benchmarks and at the same time point out that PC gaming can be as affordable as console gaming.
 
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