System Builder Marathon: Day Two

[bgerber]

Yesterday we built and tested a low cost PC system for $525. Today we focus on a mid-range system that costs around $1,255.

 

[hayruss]

I would like to ask the question, if this is a mid range system why is it using the 2nd best video card processor out there 8800GTS. (Based on the VAG chart Overall all games fps)???? If it was mid range wouldn't it be using a X1950pro/X1900XT or 7900GT/7950GT???? :? :? 8)

 

[Crashman]

I have news: anything close to $300 is mid-priced in a graphics card, the 8800 Ultra cost over twice as much.

It's not nVidia's fault that the third and fourth fastest cards are both higher-priced ATI products.

 

[zenmaster]

I think one of the issue may be that "ranges" of systems may be wider than allowed by the '3' options they are selecting.

We had the $500 option yesterday.
Today we have the $1200 option.
Tomorrow we will likely have the $2000+ option.

Personally I think yesterday's was too cheap and today's has quite a few upgrades. Many folks could build great systems for somewhere in between these two systems.

I can understand, however, that short of having 5 categories such as "Entry Level", "Low Mid-Range", "Moderate Mid-Range", "Upper Mid-Range", and "Bling Bling" there will just be a number of viable types of configurations that will be ignored.

 

[tomdrum]

Some great things in there. Surprising to see an 8800 in the mid range. I Like to think my pc is in mid/high range but im still carrying an old 6600 haha. I didnt spend $1200 on mine though, more $900/$1000.

Maybe a bit high a budget compared to the last setup you did.

 

[Zex]

how about the motherboard i want to buy a new PC like this but i'm woried about motherboard. Should I buy this MSI 965 Platinum but does its good for overclocking? i want my system build for gaming and I want to overclock i think i'll try to push procesor to 3.8Ghz I allready have zalman cooler 7700-Cnps

 

[pdizazzo3]

This is really starting to shape up well, but I think I would like to see the buget PC upgraded to a mid range processor and a better video card and see how it fares against the intel. Since it was built on an AM2 platform, it should easily be able to hold its own, but still cost alot less. This would affirm it's value as an upgradable system

 

[cleeve]

I would like to ask the question, if this is a mid range system why is it using the 2nd best video card processor out there 8800GTS.

Midrange when it comes to video cards is based on price.

The most expensive cards out there are about $550 - over $1000 if you SLI them. The cheapest gamer's cards are about $110.

The $280 320mb 8800 GTS is midrange as far as price goes...

 

[cleeve]

This is really starting to shape up well, but I think I would like to see the buget PC upgraded to a mid range processor and a better video card and see how it fares against the intel.

This is close to what we plan to do, actually.

In the summary article we're throwing in gaming benches of the low-end system with an 8800 GTX - a budget gamer's special. The price will still be notably lower than the midrange system, but it'll be interesting to see if it'll stand up to the midrange system.

If the 3800+/8800 GTX combo meets or beats the e6600/8800 GTS combo, it'll but to bed the argument that the 8800 GTX is so CPU bottlenecked that it's useless on anything but a midrange core2 duo...

 

[zenmaster]

3.8Ghz is far from a reasonable expectation.

IMHO, it should not even be considered a goal you wish to obtain.
Especially if you are a gamer.

The reason is that most games are far from CPU bound.

3.6Ghz tends to be the upper limit for a reasonable expectation for regular use. In fact, many posters don't clock their CPUs close to their max speed since it does not gain them much compared to the noise, heat, and system risk involved.

There were some reviews of Liquid Cooling systems if you are serious about wanting 3.8ghz. Be sure to get something that cools both your CPU and your chipsets.

I would only spend the money on liquid cooling, however, after you have upgraded your video card to the 8800 GTX since you will see more bang for your buck there.

 

[cleeve]

Maybe a bit high a budget compared to the last setup you did.

This is an argument we anticipated. Frankly, the term 'midrange' is pretty subjective... we had to draw a line in the sand somewhere, so we did.

We expected there to be a lot of dissent as to what a 'midrange' and 'high end' component is, but that's unavoidable. Everyone's going to have their own take on that based on their own taste.

In the final analysis, if people agree our low-end system is cheap, and our high-end system is decadent - then as long as the midrange falls comfortably in between in price, we're satisfied.

The benchmarks will be useful even if you disagree as to what makes a midrange or high-end PC.

 

[yakyb]

i agree i would class the the x1950 pro as mid/upper so the 8800 gts 320 is strongly in the upper but having said that if i were putting a build like that together i would certainly use that card

 

[skyguy]

1) I'm soooooooooo happy that THG decided to do a "series" for these builds, to show low/medium/high end builds, exact parts, and then compare them at the end. Finally, FINALLY!!!! You guy got the right idea, this is a VERY welcome approach to articles here. Informative, straightforward, easily understood by visitors, appeals to a wide range of readers, and you did the FOLLOW-UP.

Now THAT is that way it should be done here. Kudos and congratulations to all of you writers for your hard, tedious work on this series. You have my sincere thanks and admiration. Well done!!!!

2) Overall a solid build. Definitely would choose a different PSU though. Some things (HSF, case) are obviously subjective to person preference, so can't knock those choices. But great selection on components in general (except PSU, just my opinion though LOL)

3) Will overclocking be considered in this series? Please, PLEASE?!?!?! One of the tempting reasons to go with C2D and spend some more money than an AMD solution is for its amazing overclocking abilities. I am sure you guys don't have the time to go in-depth, that is fine.......but at least mention it anecdotally? That the mid-range can beat an X6800 for ALOT less money? That the low-end system can be healthily OC'd to achieve even better performance without much effort? I frankly think it deserves a mention in your series.


Very much looking forward to Day 3. Keep up the great work guys, and take the OC comment under advisement please 😉

Thanks!

 

[tomdrum]

I want to overclock i think i'll try to push procesor to 3.8Ghz I allready have zalman cooler 7700-Cnps

I agree 3.8 would be craazy. Nt even worth trying for me. You would have to up your voltages and you would have trouble probably as I doubt it would be reliable. Plus you would need ram going up to 1066 mhz really.

 

[goldragon_70]

This makes me fell bad. My new system is about 3 months old, I spent about $1450, before taxes and shipping, and I don't have near the Power this midrange system has. I hate time.

In my defense though the 8800 GTS either wasn't around or much higher then it is now, and I bough a $250 monitor and windows. Plus the Memory that I was looking at was priced higher back then.

I have to agree with the card selection though, with the price drop on the other parts and the lowered price of the 8800gts 320mb it makes sense.

Edit: 3.8Ghz is too much to expect out of a e6600, especialy with the concave problem. I got an HSF like the one in this article and I can clock to about 3.4Ghz before I see the cpu getting too hot.

P.S. In both the low end and mid system, the cases seemed overpriced, I could probably find similer options on a lower priced case, with the same quality.

 

[skyguy]

[offtopic]

You won't hit 3.8ghz with a Zalman 7700 without going beyond the safe temperatures for your CPU. Trust me. The 7700 is nothing to be proud of. Even with a Thermalright 120 Extreme a 3.8ghz OC would be extremely dicey. So good luck with that, see ya back when you have a new CPU after you replace the one you're gonna burn out 😉

[/offtopic]

 

[Zex]

ok ok :lol: I listen your advice, I dont want to burn it hah. I have that cooler for about 1 year. What be most posible overclock for that cpu??? and i still dont get the answer about motherboard does this MSI is good for overclocking :lol:

 

[hayruss]

i agree i would class the the x1950 pro as mid/upper so the 8800 gts 320 is strongly in the upper but having said that if i were putting a build like that together i would certainly use that card

Ahh Yes I agree, I have no problems using a ripper of a Vid card like the 8800GTS at the mo but I cannot afford the extra AU$150 it would cost for the 8800 compared to the 1950pro. 😳

 

[hayruss]

how about the motherboard i want to buy a new PC like this but i'm woried about motherboard. Should I buy this MSI 965 Platinum but does its good for overclocking?

Check out the previous reviews there is heaps of info here to help U make UR decision on MoBo type.

I personally like the E6400 cpu it seems to handle a swag of overclocking using standard cooling. Of course using UR choice of MoBo etc. I think I have dribbled enough now back to the rest of U mob. 😀

 

[VividPriest]

In the cost section I didn't notice the cost of Windows XP Pro included. Whenever I build a system for somebody I usually have to include the cost of the OS. You're running XP Pro, why not include the cost buying of XP Pro? Without it your cost figures are unrealistic, you're system price should have been higher by about $140.

Other than that I think you've built a great midrange system. Keep up the good work!

 

[cleeve]

In the cost section I didn't notice the cost of Windows XP Pro included.

We didn't include the cost of the benchmarking software either.
We're concentrating on hardware costs and what affects performance, not software.

Besides, who are we to dictate you can't use Linux?

 

[Phrozt]

heh.. I think a lot of people are having a problem w/the term "midrange" because they *want* a midrange computer, but cannot afford the price of this one.

It's funny, because I've also heard that you, "cannot build a good gaming computer for under $1k." So, here we have $1.2k being "top end" and $1k being "too low for anything decent."

As has been said over and over, based on the market, this price point is almost exact for a *MID* range comp. The GFX card can be had for well under $300, which is half of the top of the line cards (even less than the soon to be top of the line cards). I think ATI's lack of competition would lead consumers to believe that, because ATI doesn't have a competing card, the GTS 320 cannot be percieved as "mid range" because it's already "king of the hill" (usually it's "either or" for nvidia/ati when it comes to choosing a top card).

The board is a good, solid board, and doesn't even touch on the higher end of the price scale for boards.

The memory is good and solid, but is also cheaper than the top of the line sticks.

Personally, I would have gone for the 6700, because as per the price cuts, it recieved the highest performance per penny increase (the highest cut in price). It is the top of the line "sub-extreme/quad" chip though, so perhaps that is too high? Again, I think the lack of AMD's ability to compete in this category makes the end user think that the king of the hill means it's too high to be considered mid-ranged.

I would have also gone w/the 7200.10 line from seagate, but the HDDs are basically personal pref.

I think a bit more power *could* be used for the PSU, but it's not really necessary...


All in all, I think this build is a near-perfect representation of what a mid-range computer should look like.

 

[warshez]

I would like to ask the question, if this is a mid range system why is it using the 2nd best video card processor out there 8800GTS. (Based on the VAG chart Overall all games fps)???? If it was mid range wouldn't it be using a X1950pro/X1900XT or 7900GT/7950GT???? :? :? 8)

Because top range is 2x 8800GTX SLI

 

[lucernario]

Love the article, but I have noticed that in none of the marathons you have included the OS price into the equation.

You should add $280 for windows xp pro, so the total would be $1,505 for today's system.

 

[cleeve]

Love the article, but I have noticed that in none of the marathons you have included the OS price into the equation.

I've mentioned this in the first article, I've mentioned it in this thread, and I'll mention it one last time (before the thirsd and forth articles come out, when I'll likely have to mention it again):

"We didn't include the cost of the benchmarking software either.
We're concentrating on hardware costs and what affects performance, not software.

Besides, who are we to dictate you can't use Linux?"