System Builder Marathon, December 2010: $2000 PC

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It's not so surprising or incredible to me.

I ordered that same Crucial RAM you guys had been raging over for months, and recieved the same exact crap you guys got this time. I could have told you the "cheapo D9KPTs" were bait and switch. ..And that these sticks' performance leaves MUCH to be desired. Mine won't even run at 1333 CAS 8. Oh well, Dominators in the mail.
 
[citation][nom]Anonyy-mouse[/nom]It's not so surprising or incredible to me. I ordered that same Crucial RAM you guys had been raging over for months, and recieved the same exact crap you guys got this time. I could have told you the "cheapo D9KPTs" were bait and switch. ..And that these sticks' performance leaves MUCH to be desired. Mine won't even run at 1333 CAS 8. Oh well, Dominators in the mail.[/citation]I don't know whether you're lying or just plain clueless, but Crucial doesn't sell the Hynix modules that were delivered for this build.

As for not being able to overclock D9KPT, if you did have it you would have shot past 1800 CAS 9 or 1333 CAS 7 with ease at 1.60V-1.65V. Tom's Hardware has used over a dozen Newegg-delivered kits and all had similar capabilities to the award-winning modules that were previously reviewed. Patriot even uses them for some of its "rated" DDR3-1600.
 
I dont know about this article, but I saw a video on youtube where this chap was playing crysis in Eyefinity using 3 different monitors albeit all 3 were 30" monitors... but one was Lg the other was a white samsung and the third a black samsung. now could be that the two samsung's are the same model but the lg?

Would 2x 6850 or 2x 6870 CFire run the same amount of power or lesser?? that consumption under load is huge.... cant imagine what my power bill would look like at the end of the month

Finally, dudes, another giveaway only for Americans.....damn now i am going to have to move to the US to take part in these contests.....please have a worldwide giveaway...atl least for christmas :)
 
Calling me a liar isn't very professional. There are better ways to show someone they're wrong.. I can't believe you hold this job with that attitude to be quite honest.

But. You're right, they're actually Micron ICs. I made the post without thinking about it really, as I was very angry when, on Tom's recommendation, I ordered the "CT2K..." Cruvial Kit that was, according to about 50 articles here, supposed to be D9KPTs.

Well, they're not. They -are- very similar to the Hynix, that is, high density, single sided, and terrible.

I had to put 1.6v through them just to get CAS9 1333, and they won't go past ~1380 even with 1.67v. No boot if you lower timings. They're TRASH.

And, I'm quite happy the same thing happened to Tom's. I feel vindicated.

(Why wouldn't it let me post my comments a minute ago? I had to register, AND use a different email addy?)
 
tom thumb :
Who spends more on the case than they do on SSDs??

Every mac user?
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[citation][nom]shiboe[/nom]Every mac user?[/citation]

haha! I don't think mac users are worthy to participate in such an analogy. The idea of buying individual components with the intent of customization, increasing value, performance, aesthetics or whatever is foreign to almost all mac users.

Anyway,

I see the "memory bottleneck" thing, and I don't get it. Didn't Tom's publish an article a while back that said that if your memory is triple channel, it is already blazing fast, and making it faster amounts to hardly anything?
 



Agreed.
RAID would still be the way to go. Even if they slow down after a while, isn't much of a problem. Especially as I have personally had hdd's last a max of 5 yrs and then die out .... wouldnt make any difference in not using SSD's in RAID, because by the time they wear out we might as well be seeing 320GB and higher SSD's at the present prices......
 

not to mention RAM....ok its ECC but still thats the major part of the cost of a MAC ..

besides I know someone who bought a Obsidian 800d for an i3 build matx
 
[citation][nom]anonyy-mouse[/nom]I ordered the "CT2K..." Cruvial Kit that was, according to about 50 articles here, supposed to be D9KPTs.Well, they're not. They -are- very similar to the Hynix, that is, high density, single sided, and terrible.[/citation]Sorry, all my 2GB D9KPT's are double-sided 2GB modules, though Paul once had some single-sided 1GB parts. If you're looking at single-sided 2GB modules, you're looking at something else...maybe counterfeit RAM?
 
They're single sided, 2 x 2GB kit. The only difference is the suffix, mine are .8FD instead of the .16FFs. Apparently, that makes a world of difference. Unfortunately, Newegg doesn't let you see which suffix you're getting?

I don't think they're counterfeit.. They came from newegg. This exact kit: CT2KIT25664BA1339
Link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148262&cm_re=crucial_ddr3_1333-_-20-148-262-_-Product

I guess what I was trying to get at is it would have been great if they'd actually been D9KPTs. But, they (obviously) aren't.
 
It would have been GREAT if Tom's had gotten different D9KPT modules at twice the density and had similar results, because it would have exposed a problem with an awarded product. But Tom's didn't get alternative D9KPT's, but unbranded chips with a Hynix part number, and that should make any vindication you've erroneously felt...evaporate.
 
Check out the link on those Adata SSD's 64Gb, New egg forum has lots of negativity bout compat issues which certain chipsets like ICH9 bsod's & sandforce controllers 2000/2122, plus firmware upgradeable only by manufacturer.
 
My point was you ordered a budget kit in hopes of receiving the D9KPTs.. Just like I did. And you got shafted. Just like I did.

The vindication is there, and it's saying: Don't listen to reviewers who're in bed with the people you buy parts from.

Is that -not- the same kit you guys recommended time after time? Yes, I think so. Definitely the same part number. Even shows the D9KPTs in the picture.

But did I recieve the same parts that were reviewed under that part number? No. I did not.

It's highly misleading for Newegg to advertise the parts through your site, and then mail out different, lower quality pieces to buyers.

I see it more as newegg's fault than Tom's (Honestly, I don't think you guys were intentionally misleading) , but it's a lesson learned nonetheless.
 
[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]Warned how? The best explanation I've heard was that "since RAID doesn't support TRIM (true), the cells wear out faster (false?)". Nobody has explained to me how preemptively erasing the cells (TRIM) adds longevity compared to over erasing on-the-fly (No TRIM). The same erase takes place either way, and I've never seen any evidence that wear-leveling algorithms, which are internal on the drive, are negated by RAID.The only "warning" that makes sense to me is that the drives will slow down after all the cells have been used, making writes somewhat slower...but still faster than we'd see on a single drive (with TRIM).[/citation]
Even though they dont support TRIM in RAID, garbage collection should still work in RAID for Sandforce controllers. So as long as the system is idle for a bit every day, the drives should be always be ready to go at their optimum speeds.
 
Crashman, I found something else: This isn't the first time it's been pointed out to you (and Tom's by association) that there's some fishy things going on with this RAM. You said: "Interesting stuff regarding the .16FF suffix, as all the modules Tom's has gotten from both Crucial and Newegg have had this suffix (to the best of my knowledge). " In this articles comments: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ddr3-4gb-p55,2462.html Page 3.

I'll be glad to take photos of my packaging, my sticks, and even my packing slip if I can still find it. Just send me an email address.

Please note, there does appear to be some confusion. You seem to think I got "alternative" D9KPTs, when in fact, I ordered a kit that were supposed to be them, but were actually "unbranded Micron modules." To borrow your phrase. If you want, I'll take a screenie of CPUz but here's what it says for part number: 8JTF2566AZ-1G4D1

I think that's correct.
 
[citation][nom]anonyy-mouse[/nom]My point was you ordered a budget kit in hopes of receiving the D9KPTs.. Just like I did. And you got shafted. Just like I did. The vindication is there, and it's saying: Don't listen to reviewers who're in bed with the people you buy parts from.Is that -not- the same kit you guys recommended time after time? Yes, I think so. Definitely the same part number. Even shows the D9KPTs in the picture.But did I recieve the same parts that were reviewed under that part number? No. I did not. It's highly misleading for Newegg to advertise the parts through your site, and then mail out different, lower quality pieces to buyers. I see it more as newegg's fault than Tom's (Honestly, I don't think you guys were intentionally misleading) , but it's a lesson learned nonetheless.[/citation]


Sounds like a probable cause. Same goes for the Mushkin incident (albeit less). Sue them and report back?
 
[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]Read the part at the end of the COD:MW2 test page, and keep these numbers in mind: 4% and 8%.[/citation]
I get it, but it is still surprising to see the system bottleneck at the ram, something that most people ignore or decide to cut cost on first.
Also, you have a very good point at the bottom: "Yet, we had to use completely different memory just to prove the insufficiency of the stuff we bought, and that’s something most builders can’t do."
That is the reason we go to tom's, to be surprised and have our common folk knowledge get smashed. From now on I am going to pay careful attention to those ram timings.
 
There are only three components where it’s never worthwhile to skimp if you’re going to be overclocking. Power Supply, Motherboard, and Ram. You can find great deals on coolers, CPU's and video cards, but from personal experience I always buy quality on those three items. It would have been nice to see the #’s that real memory would have offered on this build =(
 
We look forward to your thoughts on how we might be able to save money, improve quality, or enhance value on future $2000 builds.
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check ALL the reviews both the negative and positives are great tips for what to expect. reading them alone is easy enough to tell if it's (ametuer)operator error or just a bad product.
i check atleast 2 vendors sites as well as the manufacturers support page regarding the specific product i want to buy before i decide to buy it.
crucials memory is getting to be hit or miss supported by m/b makers with out having to finely tune and extensively test timming compatabilities.
i know the ballastics tracers (leds) that were ddr2 1066 most people couldn't figure out the timmings let alone that their 32bit OS's were to fault for alot of the blue screening for the ones using the 4x1gb sticks.
took me about a day & a half of playing with them to realize when you pushed use to max out the memory and came back down to nil usage they would blue screen, i believe that was the dual channel effect because they worked great with a single pair or even just 3 sticks with out a hiccup even no matter what timming i used. it never blue screened with any stick & timming combo with a linux/XP/7 64bit operating system i tested and still using it right now, but i'm going to avoid jinxing myself and saying anything further ha-ha-ha.
 
i think for a $2000 build, resolutions below 1080p should be dismissed as anyone spending this much on a pc would want a 1080p monitor. At the moment there are not many monitors on the market above 20" that are not at least 1080p. And there sure as hell wouldnt be anyone with a 1280x1024 monitor that would spend this kind of money on a PC and not update their monitor.
 
Let me know if you guys agree with this.

When it comes to the $2000 price point, you are leaving the area of "best value" altogether. It is likely that you'll be splurging on one thing or another to meet the $2000 (lower?) limit. For instance, in this build, that case... $200 from the case could have gone to... what? It's already well off, aside from ram (maybe). 12Gb of ram by itself costs about $200, and 12 isn't really necessary. CPU maybe? Not really. The 950 is the one to get. Any higher and it's a terrible value.

When talking "CPU value", would a dual-cpu motherboard with 2 950s be a better value than a 980X?
 
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