System Builder Marathon, Sept. 2011: $1000 Enthusiast PC

[larkspur]

[citation][nom]cadder[/nom]64GB gives you about 58GB usable space. Your SSD should be kept below 80% full so now you have 46GB of usable space. I have 2 laptops with almost nothing installed on them except a browser and a photo viewer. Both are well above 64GB in used space. I'm going to have to buy 120GB SSD's for them.[/citation]

You are talking about laptops. This is a desktop. Win 7 installs under 30gb. If you only install system-related apps and utilities, you can easily come in under 50gb for a SYSTEM drive. You have to have a separate application/data volume (heck, you could have a super-fast app volume like 2 SSDs in RAID-0 and then a data volume in RAID-1 with a couple 2tb spinners). You still get the speediness of a system drive with TRIM support without breaking the bank. If you can't learn to install your games on something other than C then obviously you need to buy the giant-sized SSDs.

 

[pinkfloydminnesota]

I agree that 8 mb of memory with slower (9 vs. 7) timings is a better idea than the 4 mb. Also can be had for $40 most days at the egg.

Also rather get a 1.5 GB or 2 GB at similar price ($5 or $10 more?) than the half sized WD black, though I love mine they were c: drives raid0'ed, not storage originally. 750 GB isn't enough for media for more than a couple months, and if you plan any kind of video/game/music archive each of the 3-4 hdd slots is important -- long video cards and cables make it difficult to use all 6-8 hdd spots in many cases.

don't like the too small/too slow these days 30 GB vertex, rather spend the extra $30 and get a 60 GB agility 3, spend $30 less on the motherboard/case.

 

[eddieroolz]

Its an alright build, but I have couple of concerns:

1. Supply of GTX 460s are drying up quick, so anyone looking to build a system now or in the next month will probably face some difficulties finding it.
2. The SSD is certainly a welcome boost but 30GB is too small for any average person. Perhaps 60GB would've been a good start.
3. The PSU concerns me slightly, but as I'm no expert I'll let that pass.

 

[lp231]

One possible reason for picking that board is for SLI as it requires PCie to be split into x8/x8. CFX can work on x16/x4, but then again who will run CFX with a board like that? Just use the money of both cards and grab a single powerful card.
IMO that 30GB SSD isn't for boot drive but for SSD caching so the HDD can "run like" a SSD. A standalone SSD will still be faster.
SSD caching is like Ready Boost, using your USB flash drive as ram hoping to boost performance while its better to just actually upgrade you system ram.

 

[clonazepam]

I forget. Which tests are done to determine the power draw? cpu, gpu, and cpu+gpu?

 

[qwertymac93]

I think the tom's team is trying to experiment with the builds, instead of going with the "obvious".

Edit: The 30gb SSD would've made more sense if you used z68.

 

[iam2thecrowe]

[citation][nom]cmcghee358[/nom]jtt283 the size of Win7 64 and Win7 32 are quite significant. 32 bit can actually fit on a 30GB np.Also my Win7 64 bit Home Premium fits on my Intel X-25V 40 GB SSD, with Office and Chrome/Firefox with 8 GB to spare. So it's really not too bad.[/citation]
not to bad? thats really really bad. you have 8gb left to install whay? 1/2 a game? a few windows updates? less than 250mb is pretty useless for me.

 

[lunyone]

So for a better build, IMHO:
* Intel 2500k ~$220
* Z68 mobo ~$120
* 6970 GPU ~$340
* CM 912 case ~$60
* BluRay ROM ~$60
* Samsung 1TB F3 ~$60
* G.Skill 8gb's ~$50
* Antec 620w HC Gamer Series ~$70

Total ~$1000 not including any MIR's.

Highlights:
* You get BluRay playback for any big screen that you might want to use or watch with (not that this is built for that, but at least have the capability).
* One single GPU, so no micro-stuttering issues to be worried about!
* Decent case w/good cooling (3x fans included!).
* Full-size ATX mobo for better flexibility of options (no micro ATX)!
* Good amount of RAM (8gb vs. 4gb).
* Solid PSU, IMHO, though Corsair works well too.

This is what I think most people were looking for in a $1k build, but this is just my opinion.

 

[lunyone]

Forgot to add the Hyper 212+ CPU HSF that was included into the original build price above!

 

[Guest]

A 30Gb SSD is just too small for a Windows system disc. I just looked at the size of my windows folder which contains Windows 7 Premium 64bit and its 22Gb. Add to this the 4gb of swap file and 4gb of hibernation space which will have to be disabled and it will not fit. My 60Gb OCZ Vertex has 55.7Gb usable space which presumably means the 30Gb version contains about 27.5Gb. Other than disabling the hibernation, I'd be a bit concerned about having to disable the swap file with only 4Gb of memory.
Running so close to capacity will be a continual problem, particularly with the frequency of windows updates.
Also, if you've only got $1000 to spend, does it really seem like a good idea to go with dual graphics cards? My machine has a GTX560ti which copes admirably with all games, costs about $150 less, and eats far less power. Furthermore, I seem to remember an article here on micro-stutter which said don't bother SLI'ing anything less than a 560 since you're guaranteed to suffer this problem...

 

[Rizlla]

I don't think they had a good look at this PC before deciding to build it. These are definitely not price vs performance builds.

 

[JamesSneed]

I like the system builder articles but I just wish they were a little more realistic for what most of us would build. Nobody wants to deal with a 30GB system drive as that is just a huge hassle. Would have much rather seen a $150 Z68 motherboard using the 30GB SSD as a cache via SRT. Also if you used a z68 board wouldn't the use of Quick Sync boost the encoding scores?

Also, wouldn't it be more realistic to ignore the 2560x1600 numbers since anyone building in this price range would not be buying a $1,000 30 inch monitor? It just seems the way you test skews the scores for SLI when in reality most would do better with a faster single card to eliminate the hassle of SLI, micro-stuttering, in the odd case SLI doest work reverting to one card, and minimum frame rates which sometimes matter more than avg or max frame rates.

More to the point why don't you start including the monitor in the price of the build so you can do some realistic tests at the monitors native resolution? If your going to judge price vs performance then this one thing will have a big impact on how you build your PC's. Just look at your own results in the case where you have a large drop in FPS at 2560x1600 which would be even larger in a non-SLI setup but your testing is skewing the price vs performance to SLI setups which is an unrealistic test when you account for the fact in this price range your likely using a monitor at 1680x1050.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]JamesSneed[/nom]I like the system builder articles but I just wish they were a little more realistic for what most of us would build. Nobody wants to deal with a 30GB system drive as that is just a huge hassle. Would have much rather seen a $150 Z68 motherboard using the 30GB SSD as a cache via SRT. Also if you used a z68 board wouldn't the use of Quick Sync boost the encoding scores?Also, wouldn't it be more realistic to ignore the 2560x1600 numbers since anyone building in this price range would not be buying a $1,000 30 inch monitor? It just seems the way you test skews the scores for SLI when in reality most would do better with a faster single card to eliminate the hassle of SLI, micro-stuttering, in the odd case SLI doest work reverting to one card, and minimum frame rates which sometimes matter more than avg or max frame rates.More to the point why don't you start including the monitor in the price of the build so you can do some realistic tests at the monitors native resolution? If your going to judge price vs performance then this one thing will have a big impact on how you build your PC's. Just look at your own results in the case where you have a large drop in FPS at 2560x1600 which would be even larger in a non-SLI setup but your testing is skewing the price vs performance to SLI setups which is an unrealistic test when you account for the fact in this price range your likely using a monitor at 1680x1050.[/citation]Lots of stuff!
1. You're probably right about using the Z68 for SSD cache, but these benchmarks are not Quick Sync enabled so the "good side" of Z68 would be reserved for the actual winner of the system.
2. 2560x1600 stands in for 1280x1024x3, which is a similar pixel count, low-cost surround setup that nearly any gamer who can afford this PC could probably put together cheaply.
3. Most of Tom's Hardware readers have peripherals, half of them have a transferable OS (the others must pay separately or use Linux etc).

 

[skallagrim]

Can some one clarify, according to Newegg picture GTX 460 requires 2 6-pin pcie power each, so 4 in total, but the CX600 PSU only has 2 6+2 pin connector. Am I missing something here?

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]skallagrim[/nom]Can some one clarify, according to Newegg picture GTX 460 requires 2 6-pin pcie power each, so 4 in total, but the CX600 PSU only has 2 6+2 pin connector. Am I missing something here?[/citation]Page 5 paragraph 2 perhaps?

 

[youssef 2010]

[citation][nom]Article[/nom]In order to solve that problem, we used a single Molex-to-PCIe adapter we had in the lab, freeing up a fourth four-pin connector for fan duty. Although we didn't run into any stability issues using the CX600, we probably won’t be picking it for a dual-graphics-equipped machine in the future.[/citation]

Man, just use a good ol' Molex Splitter.

BTW, setting your fan to 100% most of the time will significantly reduce your fan's life cycle

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]youssef 2010[/nom]Man, just use a good ol' Molex Splitter.BTW, setting your fan to 100% most of the time will significantly reduce your fan's life cycle[/citation]I'm concerned about using a single lead for multiple devices when those devices are high-current. The PCIe connector has 3 power and 3 ground leads for a reason, giving it the power of 1 12V lead sounds risky to me...

 

[JamesSneed]

Lots of stuff!
1. You're probably right about using the Z68 for SSD cache, but these benchmarks are not Quick Sync enabled so the "good side" of Z68 would be reserved for the actual winner of the system.
2. 2560x1600 stands in for 1280x1024x3, which is a similar pixel count, low-cost surround setup that nearly any gamer who can afford this PC could probably put together cheaply.
3. Most of Tom's Hardware readers have peripherals, half of them have a transferable OS (the others must pay separately or use Linux etc).

1. Agree, which is kind of why I mentioned it, Quick Sync should be taken into account as it could play into price vs performance on the encoding tests.

2. Wasn't looking at like that so I can somewhat agree with 1280x1024x3 although your still talking $300-$500 in monitors for $1000 PC which is not as bad as I was thinking with a 30" monitor.

3. I think I just took issue with the price vs performance on the $1,000 build since the tests favor SLI setups. You do back down a resolution for the $500 build which is nice although I think its more realistic if you did that on the $1,000 build and then backed down one more resolution on the $500 build. Just an opinion and you know what they say about those.

 

[Guest]

They could easily have choosen a better mobo.

I can already name one on top of my head, the Asus P8Z68-V LX.
It costs about 130$, has a Z68 chipset and both SLI and Crossfire support.

 

[chumly]

There! I fixed it!
http://i.imgur.com/g22Bq.jpg

 

[Guest]

what about boot times with SSD vs june's build without ? if you get an SSD you have to include those times.

 

[deceneu]

and here is the AMD version of the 1000 bucks enthusiast PC

https://sites.google.com/site/dreamsprovided/preview-october-2011-build

PSU: SeaSonic S12II-620 Bronze SS-620GB
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 Quad Core A8 AD3850
MOBO: Gigabyte GA-A75-UD4H
DDR: Mushkin DDR3 8192MB (2 x 4096) 1600MHz CL9 1.35v Black Frostbyte
HDD: 2x Seagate Barracuda 1TB SATA3 7200rpm (ST31000524AS)
DVD: Samsung SH-222AB/BEBE
CASE: NZXT Gamma
Sapphire Radeon HD6850 1GB DDR5 256-bit 11180-00-20R
CPU cooler: Thermalright Venomous X RT

 

[occupant]

This is truly the suckiest SBM I've seen in awhile. Sure, you beat out the June system, but did you really do anything but piece together a computer in a rush? Next time, do your homework, learn what connectors are available for your fans. And know this, a 30GB SSD is only useful for initial booting and testing. Windows will fill it up in a week or two if you don't even add any programs. My poor wife bought a 60GB SSD for her last build and thought it would be plenty (Windows takes 22GB, Office about 10GB, you'd think it'd fit, right?). No chance, she has to clear out temp files and caches and other things about twice a week. As a boot drive, 80GB should be a minimum if you plan to run any office suites or CS5 or anything. I plan to get my wife a 240GB SSD and then I'll dare her to find a way to fill it. Also you guys, you've got to stop spending too much money on components. I'd love to see a $1000 system with the i7-950, a single HD6870, and strong key components like Corsair power supply, Antec 300 case, 12GB of memory and storage drive selections. Oh wait, except for the SSD size, that's what I built for my wife. OVER A YEAR AGO. Kicks your system's butt.

 

[rflynn88]

Why the crap would you use the molex connectors + adapters for the 2 GTX460s? The CX600 comes with 2x 6+2pin PCI-E connectors for the two video cards. At the moment the CX600V2 is on sale at Newegg for $69.99 + $20 rebate + 15% off, so $39.95 + $1.99 shipping. That's a fantastic PSU for the money.

 

[rflynn88]

Nevermind that comment above. Forgot the GTX460 needs two power connectors, so 4 total.

Regardless, what's up with the SLI/Crossfile boner? Is it really important to have two graphics card to make the owner feel cool? A single faster card makes way more sense for this kind of build.