System Builder Marathon: Sub-$1000 PC

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Status
Not open for further replies.
[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]If you'd read stuff before spouting off you'd see that these systems were put together in May.[/citation]

That's no excuse if the articles are published in July. People use these sites to make informed purchasing choices and these articles are just plain misleading now.
 
[citation][nom]crisUK[/nom]That's no excuse if the articles are published in July. People use these sites to make informed purchasing choices and these articles are just plain misleading now.[/citation]


Misleading? By what standard?

Newegg has 8800 GTs for $150 right now. Two of them is $300, a full $100 cheaper than two 4850's.

Just because the 4850's are great doesn't mean every other video card is useless. This is still a fine build... if you want to spend $100 more, fine, but that doesn't make two cheap 8800 GTs a bad choice.
 
[citation][nom]crisUK[/nom]That's no excuse if the articles are published in July. People use these sites to make informed purchasing choices and these articles are just plain misleading now.[/citation]

how is this article misleading?
it never claims to build the best sub 1000 system;
and the article does show charts to show how good the system is, and I don't think the charts are misleading at all

I would certainly hope that anyone looking to build a system isn't going to look at one and only one recommended build and go with it completely; I would certainly hope that they take the first build they look at as a starting point, continue to search and evaluate and then change the build accordingly
 
Sorry, but using that power supply for that system is foolish. You've ignored the sys req of the GPU manufacturer. Ignored recommendations of that PSU manufacturer. It provide 360w at 45 degrees C (no wonder you added the fans!) when you could have bought a PSU that would have fit into the budget and been appropriate for the load you were putting on it. Will it work? Yes. Is it a poor example to use in that system? Yes.
Could you have done better to that system and your readers by using a better PSU? Yes.
 
I suspect the CPU cooler was not so much "recommended" as what they had available. Since they are actually physically assembling and testing the computer, I doubt they order each part. Often they use what they have on hand, which is usually a nice selection of parts but not the ultimate "Dream List". I suspect if a part was "unacceptable" they would not use it. But if it was good but not perfect, it may be.

 


No, the power supply is brilliant. It's the best one for the money. You could get a higher rated power supply for the same money, but it wouldn't be the same quality. The unit fit within the $80 power supply budget, and I've not seen any of the same quality with a higher rating.

A medium-quality 500W unit would have likely put out a lower amount of reliable power.
 


Remember that May was only FIVE weeks ago. It takes two weeks to produce the article. You should really be criticizing the man for not getting the article up for the week of June 9th when it was supposed to go in. After all, what kind of lame excuse is hospitalization?
 
Why are you constantly changing the colors for previous and current system in the benchmarks? One time the old one is green and then you change it so the new one is green. It's VERY annoying and you did it in the previous review as well. Can we have some consistency please?
 
[citation][nom]dirtmountain[/nom]Sorry, but using that power supply for that system is foolish. You've ignored the sys req of the GPU manufacturer. [/citation]

No need to apologize, you're making a common mistake. :)

The GPU manufacturer is quoting for the lowest common denominator - namely, no-name brand generic PSUs, which are rated at peak output rather than nominal output.

A good name brand PSU will have considerably more juice in reserve.
 
[citation][nom]martel80[/nom]Why are they using RAR for compression benchmarking?7zip beats it - it's free, offers better compression, is multithreaded, offers more options etc.[/citation]
You're kidding right? This is a benchmark suite not a compression tool recommendation.
 
[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]You're kidding right? This is a benchmark suite not a compression tool recommendation.[/citation]
The main point was that 7zip is multithreaded whereas RAR is not.
Why benchmark on software that can use like 1/4th of the CPU potential when there is a better alternative?
 
The old rig would have an "unfair" advantage being a quad core, so if they were going to test 7-zip they should really have it along side WinRAR so single and multi-threaded performance could be measured.
 
[citation][nom]Best_reviewss[/nom]gaiden this pc costs the same but is MUCH slower. heck, can you compare a e7200 to a 5000+ be? 8800gt>3870. Whats the point?[/citation]

best_reviewss, first of all, TH's config builds on a 750i as a base which is a bad choice to me simply because it's a 'half-way' chipset that limits SLI to only x8 comparing to the K9A2 Plat which supports CFX in x16 + other combination(4xPCI-E2.0x16). You gotta think from ground up. 750i 'might be suitable for a single card config, but for SLI it would be a waste IMO.

i'm not saying this config would be MUCH faster than things you pointed out (e7200/8800gt), the point is that there are so much more things to consider when you are building a sub $1000 machine because you would want to layout some open-ends for ease of possible future upgrades and both AMD 5000+BE and CrossfireX offers that. Throwing in latest and greatest may sound great, but put yourself in this sub $1000 config owner - he's not going to spend more $$$ on a new mobo just so he could put in more video cards. Sometimes I think when it comes to budget pc people just need to take a step back and think from a different perspective. In this particular case the spider platform is more suitable, intel base config are fine but AMD/ATI offer better options.
 
I agree with yonef about this being published in July and do also take some issue with using 2x Geforce 8800 GTs.

I just think they should have put a big disclaimer like:
"At time of building our sub $1000 PC, the Radeon HD 4850 was not available yet but you can get it for $199 plus $30 rebate now on Newegg also and it is much better than a Geforece 8800 GT. See our review here."

I see no value to this kind of articles if they don't reflect one of the 'better' PC you can build for each price level when article is published. Given that you have to do the benchmarks before hand, it is not always possible to factor in the latest components (especially when you are in the middle of benchmarking) but I expected them (any decent review/news site, et al) to scrap, rewrite, or put some disclaimer (the easy way out) when they find what they have is out of date and Tom's should definitely known that the Radeon HD 4850 is just that much better than a Geforce 8800 GT.

The Silverstone ST400 does in fact see to be able to do the job, 400W is the max DC output actually.
 
For the ati, vs, nvidia fan boys, when it comes down to it, all that matters is game play, not whats in they system. If the game plays great, who cares what your card is, stop being offended everytime your card isnt mentioned.
 
[citation][nom]gaiden[/nom]TH's config builds on a 750i as a base which is a bad choice to me simply because it's a 'half-way' chipset that limits SLI to only x8 comparing to the K9A2 Plat which supports CFX in x16 + other combination(4xPCI-E2.0x16). You gotta think from ground up. 750i 'might be suitable for a single card config, but for SLI it would be a waste IMO. [/citation]

You are perpetuating a misconception, Gaiden.

Do some research on 8x and 16x PCIe bus speeds when using SLI. I still have yet to see data that shows two 16x slots show a measurable increase in performance compared to 8x, but I've seen TONS of data showing that 8x can meet 16x speeds with dual cards.

If you find proof to the contrary, please provide it. Otherwise you're just spreading the misinformation further.
 
[citation][nom]dirtmountain[/nom]Sorry, but using that power supply for that system is foolish. You've ignored the sys req of the GPU manufacturer. Ignored recommendations of that PSU manufacturer. It provide 360w at 45 degrees C (no wonder you added the fans!) when you could have bought a PSU that would have fit into the budget and been appropriate for the load you were putting on it. Will it work? Yes. Is it a poor example to use in that system? Yes.Could you have done better to that system and your readers by using a better PSU? Yes.[/citation]

I dont know why people think that the 400w PSU used in this build will stand up overtime... Frankly, Im amazed it even worked.

The Silverstone ST400 has two +12v rails rated at 18a max each.. The peak wattage on the +12v rails is 348w, which equals a total of 29 amps between the two rails. The connectors are as follows.. one 4-pin 12v esp, one 20+4-pin 12v MB , one 6-pin PCIe, 2x dual-sata and 2x triple 4-pin molex.

The +12v1 rail is for the 20+4 pin, molex, sata and PCIe . The +12v2 rail is dedicated for the 4-pin CPU ATX12v(EPS). Look it up, this is the way this unit is designed.

Now, lets think about this for a second... The Max power draw of the 8800GT is about 110w each... so to run two 8800GTs, your looking at a max of 220w.. which would have to be drawn off of the +12v1 rail.. one card with the PCIe connector, the other useing an adaptor and two 4-pin molex connectors... Your already at 18.3 amps on that rail... its maxed out.

On that same +12v1 rail, you still have to run the MB thru the 20+4, the DVD and HDD thru the sata, and any extra case fans and what have you....all on a rail that is maxed out already from the 8800GT's.... starting to get the picture yet?

Now lets go to the +12v2 rail.. thats going to get plugged into the EPS 12v CPU input... you have a 4-pin on that ST400, where the MSI P7N Platinum has a 8-pin input. In order to overclock properly, youll need all 8-pins . Now youll have to take even MORE juice from the +12v1 rail useing a molex to EPS adaptor... power thats not there to take.

I would really like to see how the guys at toms were able to pull this off without tripping the overvoltage for the +12v1 rail... And to think, there actually going to overclock this PC???

For all you people getting on the guys case when he mentioned that this was an under-powered PSU, go do some research before you sate your case.. becuase in the end, he was 100% correct.
 
[citation][nom]KT_Wasp[/nom]For all you people getting on the guys case when he mentioned that this was an under-powered PSU, go do some research before you sate your case.. becuase in the end, he was 100% correct.[/citation]

If that was the case, we would have had power problems when running or overclocking... neither happened.

The proof is in the pudding, methinks.
 
[citation][nom]cleeve[/nom]If that was the case, we would have had power problems when running or overclocking... neither happened.The proof is in the pudding, methinks.[/citation]

Im not saying its a bad PSU, its an OK Silverstone 400w unit(actually made by FSP)... Im just saying that its not a good choice to run a SLI or Crossfire set-up off of. The cons are..This unit does not use the best internals, neither does it have active PFC. The pro is that this unit will actually put out 400w, unlike many other budget units.

Numbers dont lie either... I still dont know how your able to get that PSU to power this machine... The amperage numbers dont add up. The design of that unit is how I stated above.. if you add up all of the wattage numbers that has to run off of the +12v1 rail, and convert it to the amperage needed.. it just does not add up.

Either the overvoltage protection is not functioning correctly.. becuase doing the math it should be tripping it.. or That PSU is severly under rated (which I highly doubt).

Weather its working now or not, given any prolonged time it will not last.. You have that unit putting out its max, and then some, to run that PC the way its configured... I would give it a max of a few weeks before that PSU just stops working.. or if the overvoltage protection is indeed not functioning, then it might just fry and take something else with it.

Id still like to know how you have that unit connected to all the variuos hardware in that PC and how many adaptors were needed to hook everything up correctly....


 
[citation][nom]cleeve[/nom]You are perpetuating a misconception, Gaiden.Do some research on 8x and 16x PCIe bus speeds when using SLI. I still have yet to see data that shows two 16x slots show a measurable increase in performance compared to 8x, but I've seen TONS of data showing that 8x can meet 16x speeds with dual cards.If you find proof to the contrary, please provide it. Otherwise you're just spreading the misinformation further.[/citation]

cleeve you are correct about the minimum difference between the two (x8 vs x16) i shouldn't have said it like it was a deal breaker, but my question is "why not get the better of the two when both boards cost the same ($149ea) while K9A2 offers 4 PCI-E 2.0, supports higher speed RAM, AND even threw in a onboard RAID controller, P7N offers nothing more than a newer mid-range chipset. I'm not a fanboy of either side I'm simply seeing what's been laying out there. I think every budget builder's goal is to find a way to get the most out from a config that means even leaving rooms for upgrades, your choice for PSU probably worked perfect for that particular configuration but how are things going to look in the long run? Chances are people would throw in newer stuffs every once awhile (TV tuner card, wireless card, new GPU, hdd, extra optical drive, more fans & lights. It may or may not support more hardware addition. no extra slot or support for another 8800, that's for sure.
 
[citation][nom]KT_Wasp[/nom]I would really like to see how the guys at toms were able to pull this off without tripping the overvoltage for the +12v1 rail...[/citation]
They plugged it in, turned it on and overclocked. What more is there to see other than the data provided? Obviously they weren't maxing out the 18A on the +12V1 rail or they would have tripped the overvoltage as you mentioned. In fact, they would have probably run into stability issues (namely reboots) well before they reached the overvoltage trip point. I have read that some units can share the load over other rails if they one is getting too much current drawn from it.
 
I love the system, but I have been seeing 8800 GTS G92s going for less than $180 for awhile now, though that requires some looking. Oh well, and to all the people who think they should have went with 2 3870s, 2 8800 GT's will perform better and a crossfire motherboard from Intel is usually more expensive than Nvidia's. Also the 4xxx series was not out when this was purchased apparently, though why they did not wait is odd. The PSU is troubling, 400w can be plenty, but the quality is what does not convince me. Regardless this is one mighty fine system!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom