TEC/Peltier CPU Chilled Water Cooling

[4Ryan6]

Swiftech Apogee XTL Water Block Flow Modifications. ( After the fact)

The block is shown already modified as previously explained all my previous pictures were lost when my HDD failed, I'll be showing the tools used and the bits for the tools used and where they were used and what for.



The tools used were a Dremel Tool and a Screw Gun Drill



Dremel bits used on the left



Step bit used on the right





The Step Bit allowed boring from the bottom side to widen the mouth without hitting and damaging the G14 Threads of the water block.





A dremel Steel Bur cutter was used for the deep path cutting





The larger Dremel diamond coated ball for smoothing





The dremel diamond ball taper was also used for smoothing





The dremel diamond cone was used to bevel the outer edge inside perimeter





The Dremel small buffing wheel was used to polish, used medium speed with a light touch.







Finished results



Ready for reassembly

 

[Reefa_Madness]

As the old saying goes, a picture is worth a 1,000 words...so you just about have the equivalent of a "Modifying Your Swiftech Apogee XTL Housing to Increase Flow Rates for Dummies" book here.

Very useful tutorial.

 

[4Ryan6]

Thanks! Reefa_Madness

They work very well with the modifications shown, the flow rate through the block is increased probably 10 fold.

The Swiftech Apogee XTL is definitely the block to go with, having the 2 modified Swiftech water blocks in the loop has allowed the water temperature to drop with the 2nd peltier assembly energized while running IBT.

Previously IBT would gradually warm the reservoir water temperature but now it not only holds but continues to drop it.

The only water loop change made was switching from the Rasa to the Swiftech, so the Swiftech block has to be greatly responsible for the increased cold transfer change.

Heavy gaming with both peltiers engaged is now around a steady 10c water temperature with the 3770K OCd to 4500mhz not bad since gaming really doesn't need a 4500mhz overclock in the first place.

Gaming at 10c is about 14c below ambient room temperature with no condensation worries.

EDIT: Well there is another factor that is affecting it, I also changed the Xiggy heat pipe cooler to another Thermalright TRUE.

 

[Reefa_Madness]

EDIT: Well there is another factor that is affecting it, I also changed the Xiggy heat pipe cooler to another Thermalright TRUE.

That could certainly have played a part. I would choose the TRUE over the Xigmatek S1283 under most circumstances.

 

[4Ryan6]

EDIT: Well there is another factor that is affecting it, I also changed the Xiggy heat pipe cooler to another Thermalright TRUE.

That could certainly have played a part. I would choose the TRUE over the Xigmatek S1283 under most circumstances.

The Xiggy in the beginning was just a test of a heat pipe air cooler I already had on hand, it was shelved and something I did not have to buy at the time.

I tested it to see if it would manage the hot side temperature, and it did an excellent job almost as good as the TRUE, I could have just left it in operation with the new Swiftech XTL block and it would have performed well, as it had already proved itself.

For sheer looks sake I wanted a purposeful look of the cooling setup, not a miss matched thrown together look, that's why I bought the 2nd Thermalright TRUE, but for the record the Xiggy can handle it, that was the main reason when Newegg had the Xigmatek Gaia SD1283 HDT on sale for $19.99 I bought 4 of them, because my peltier testing is far from over,

I'll just be continuing forward and capitalizing now on what I know for a 100% fact works, I additionally have 2 brand new boxed water blocks to be modified, not from XSPC or Swiftech, but no names will be revealed until I know for a fact whether they will work, or not!

 

[Reefa_Madness]

$20 for the Xigatek coolers is a good price.

I've bought my TRUEs "pre-owned" (to borrow a phrase from the used car dealers) so that's the same range ($20-$25) of what I've paid for them.

So you have some new sacrificial waterblocks, huh? Hope they work out well for you. More options is a good thing.

One thing that's a plus for those Swiftech XTL water blocks pictured in your tutorial is that for the time being you can still buy the XT Rev. 2 chrome plated brass tops for them directly from Swiftech, so even if you mod the original housing beyond the point of ever being able to use on a CPU, you can get the replacement housing and they can be returned to fully functional CPU blocks.

http://www.swiftech.com/APOGEE-XT-HOUSING.aspx

 

[4Ryan6]

One thing that's a plus for those Swiftech XTL water blocks pictured in your tutorial is that for the time being you can still buy the XT Rev. 2 chrome plated brass tops for them directly from Swiftech, so even if you mod the original housing beyond the point of ever being able to use on a CPU, you can get the replacement housing and they can be returned to fully functional CPU blocks.

http://www.swiftech.com/APOGEE-XT-HOUSING.aspx

Interesting to know but the Swiftech block was originally sacrificed because it was not the best CPU cooling water block, the XSPC Rasa was the better CPU cooler between the 2 blocks, and the XSPC Raystorm even better than the Rasa.

So I personally would never even consider restoring the Swiftech water block to it's former old school glory, it makes a much better cold pickup water block than it ever did a CPU cooling block.

For my purposes, once it passed from an experiment to functional reality it's possibilities of ever returning back to stock ceased to exist, but it is nice to know the top can still be purchased today, which may not be available tomorrow, so anyone even considering returning it to stock best get the top now while they can.

 

[Reefa_Madness]

Interesting to know but the Swiftech block was originally sacrificed because it was not the best CPU cooling water block, the XSPC Rasa was the better CPU cooler between the 2 blocks, and the XSPC Raystorm even better than the Rasa.

So I personally would never even consider restoring the Swiftech water block to it's former old school glory, it makes a much better cold pickup water block than it ever did a CPU cooling block.

Well, I guess opinions vary, both about the effectiveness of the block and whether or not restoring it to a functional CPU block has any merit.

I've read several reviews of the Swiftech block with the Rev 2 housing that place it within a degree or two of the competition (at the time of the testing) so even if it wasn't the top rated water block, it certainly appears to be more than adequate and it uses a relatively user-friendly mounting system. I'm not looking at this from the standpoint of whether or not it the best block, but instead from the perspective that I'd rather have the block functional and able to be placed in service, or even sold, as opposed to mutilated and discarded, or alternatively relegated to the scrap parts bin.

I can certainly understand that not everyone would feel the same way.

 

[4Ryan6]

Interesting to know but the Swiftech block was originally sacrificed because it was not the best CPU cooling water block, the XSPC Rasa was the better CPU cooler between the 2 blocks, and the XSPC Raystorm even better than the Rasa.

So I personally would never even consider restoring the Swiftech water block to it's former old school glory, it makes a much better cold pickup water block than it ever did a CPU cooling block.

Well, I guess opinions vary, both about the effectiveness of the block and whether or not restoring it to a functional CPU block has any merit.

I've read several reviews of the Swiftech block with the Rev 2 housing that place it within a degree or two of the competition (at the time of the testing) so even if it wasn't the top rated water block, it certainly appears to be more than adequate and it uses a relatively user-friendly mounting system. I'm not looking at this from the standpoint of whether or not it the best block, but instead from the perspective that I'd rather have the block functional and able to be placed in service, or even sold, as opposed to mutilated and discarded, or alternatively relegated to the scrap parts bin.

I can certainly understand that not everyone would feel the same way.

This cooling is not for everybody, sacrificial means just that, sacrificing something to be physically modified and used for another purpose, if you're not ready to make the sacrifice, don't!

I really do not care!

Reviews mean squat to me, because reviewers can be bought off, and it happens every single day.

I do my own testing and comparisons, and if my testing is different from a review, so be it, my results are what I will use to go forward with!

Do I have shelved parts or mutilated and discarded, or alternatively relegated to the scrap parts bin, you bet ya!

Have I lost any sleep over it?

No!

It was simply part of the discovery process to get where my cooling is now, if you don't take chances and sacrifice something in the pursuit of discovery, you'll still be asking questions a year from now, and my cooling will be progressed even further!

Any more questions? Ryan

Edit: One more point I want to make, caution is a good thing but I am way past caution into the actual performing facts of what this cooling can do, while you are still on the other side of the fence marveling at the unknown, once it is know!

The excitement of discovery overrides caution because then you know what works!

And it is not unknown any more, and you strive to improve upon it, then sacrificing some part like a CPU water block is totally irrelevant to accomplishing your goal.

However as long as you are standing in the unknown, all you have is doubt and questions, once the unknown is known you have answers.

 

[Reefa_Madness]

Any more questions? Ryan

I don't think that my post contained any questions.

...and I'm quite sure that I won't be posting any more, either.

 

[4Ryan6]

Any more questions? Ryan

I don't think that my post contained any questions.

...and I'm quite sure that I won't be posting any more, either.

Well then, Vaya con Dios!

 

[4Ryan6]

@ Reefa_Madness

I apologize to you for my attitude, I couldn't understand why you were grilling me in the PMs between us then moving out into this thread seemed like a continuation to me, it seemed to me you just could not grasp what I was telling you, and I was beating my head against the wall trying to explain it to you over and over.

Then I see the quote below at another website and realize you understood all along?

My intentions were never to discourage anyone from attempting their own ideas that's the only way to find out for sure is experiment and discover.

My impatience came from questions from you I did not have answers to, because the only solid answers I had was from what I had actually tested, and what I had solid information on, you questioned over and over and over, (I'm specifically referencing not using a radiator and peltier together in the same loop).

This is news to anyone reading this now, not having the PM communication between us as that information is 100% confidential, but is what loaded me for bear when you entered this thread, my bad!

So this is my official apology to you and I do hope you will share any solid discoveries you my come across in your own testing.

Ryan

I saw the thread title and was coming to post this very link but I see that I was too slow.

That linked thread is a pretty good read and it covers his journey from the use of frozen gallon jugs inserted into an insulated cooler thru his current set up of using a pair of TECs to cool the water in his CPU loop.

There is also a second thread devoted strickly to the use of the peltier with an insulated reservoir (the insulated reservoir, along with insulated loop tubing is basically the "trick" to making this work). The two threads have links to each other, but the posts are not copied from one to the other. This second thread was started after the system was operational for something in the range of 8-9 months, so it is not a "hypothetical" system...it is a functioning daily driver / gaming machine with a pair of GTX 580s (these are on a separate non-peltier water cooled loop).

Link to the second thread:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/282844-29-peltier-water-cooling

The way Ryan has worked it up, he is using it strictly for cooling his CPU at temps just above the dew point (in his air conditioned office) so that he doesn't have to insulate the components...this is by design as he did not want to deal with condensation concerns.

He has two independent 50mm peltier units (each rated at Qmax of around 245W), each air cooled by a TRUE with a single fan in a pull configuration. These TECs are located just before the insulated reservoir and are sandwiched between a water block with a modified housing (to improve flow in order to reduce icing concerns) and the TRUE. One unit runs at start up and the second unit can be toggled on/off as his cooling needs change. The water in the block picks up the cold and dumps the chilled water into the reservoir which is approximately 2-liters in size. This cold water is then pumped via a D5 thru insulated tubing leading to the water block on the CPU. His system does not use the TEC to cool the CPU, but instead uses it to chill water stored in an insulated reservoir, but instead of cooling the TEC with a second loop and radiators, he cools them with air. Here he differs from most TEC chillers, both by the use of air cooling and the use of the insulated reservoir.

Again, let me state this again that this is a functioning system, not a "will this work?" concept. So while not exactly a TEC on the Reservoir (although I think that Ryan did attempt something like that at one point), it in at least in the ballpark, right?

Seriously guys, go read those linked thread...it makes for some interesting reading.

 

[threefingeredjack]

Well... this got remarkably heated for a thread about cooling systems...

 

[4Ryan6]

Well... this got remarkably heated for a thread about cooling systems...

Well this is Star Trek 6, "The Undiscovered Country"

I've been defending this cooling since the first idea of it, out in the original thread, in PMs, and other websites where links to this cooling are posted, and after a while it just gets old!

My hopes are that one of these days someone will duplicate this cooling and discover for themselves it works, and post a confirmation here, that would be nice as far as I am concerned.

 

[threefingeredjack]

Well... this got remarkably heated for a thread about cooling systems...

Well this is Star Trek 6, "The Undiscovered Country"



I've been defending this cooling since the first idea of it, out in the original thread, in PMs, and other websites where links to this cooling are posted, and after a while it just gets old!

My hopes are that one of these days someone will duplicate this cooling and discover for themselves it works, and post a confirmation here, that would be nice as far as I am concerned.

On it sir!

 

[threefingeredjack]

Urm... Ryan... Where on earth did you get your TEC from? I've spent the past 4 hours trawling the internet, ebay mainly but I trust nothing I've seen there so far. Purchase linky or a clue?

I've adapted my system (again), as I'm wary of condensation issues. Not sure I trust your method of carefully balancing the temperature to stay above condensation temps. That's all well and good in a dehumidified office but I basically live in a sauna... Going to build a full acrylic case, mineral oil filled and then cool the mineral oil with two TEC plates, linked to an equivalent heat sink/fan combo as yours (in this case a pair of Coolermaster Z600s) above copper rod based heat sinks into the oil itself. Couple of fans to produce a convection loop inside, and bam, around 400W+ of cooling power. Just wanted to test this all out first, got all the bits bar the TEC.

 

[4Ryan6]

Once the day has arrived for an overclocker that parts they buy for their build are researched as overclockable, and they have full intentions of overclocking right out of the box, they are officially addicted to overclocking.

This puts them in a separate category if their overclocking intentions are that their hardware is absolutely not expendable, so for those overclockers cooling is imperative for longevity.

Custom water cooling with enough radiator cooling field has much more cooling performance than the top of the line air coolers can begin to touch, but is still ambient limited.

So how many radiators would it actually take to duplicate the cooling performance of just one of the TEC/Peltier assemblies in this thread?

2?, 3?, 4?, 5?, 6?, 7?, 8?, 9?, 10?, 20?, 50?, 100?, ???

Doesn't matter how many radiators, as radiators are only ambient cooling capable, now ambient wise it does matter where the radiator is located, if it's in a freezer, or submerged in an ice slush box, it will deliver the cold it's surrounded with, but it can never ever by itself make it's own cold.

Peltiers can!

I made the Star Trek joke relating to the Star Trek 6, title, "The Undiscovered Country", but actually undiscovered was the very beginning of this peltier cooling journey because the results are no longer undiscovered but discovered, duplicateable, and 100% useable to accomplish overclocking goals that are maintained below ambient.

Seeing as how Intel for one is releasing hotter and hotter cpus sensitive to voltage increases and we overclocking addicts have to raise that voltage to get where we want, we need better cooling than what is traditionally available and this thread is about one possibility.

For those delidding cpus to reach their goals and still being disappointed with traditional cooling methods after tossing their 3 year warranty, that has to bite!

When they could have used this cooling and not delidded the cpu, something to think about.

Some hit me with the cost, not considering what this cooling can actually do, or not taking into consideration this cooling can be simply transferred to your next upgrade, it's not a one shot deal, as I just did it myself, but will your air or water cooling cut it, in the future release of CPUs, if CPUs continue being released on these levels of voltage/heat increase?

I realize this cooling is not for everyone, but there are a lot out there, it is for!

I wish the best to all of you! Ryan

 

[4Ryan6]

Urm... Ryan... Where on earth did you get your TEC from? I've spent the past 4 hours trawling the internet, ebay mainly but I trust nothing I've seen there so far. Purchase linky or a clue?

I've adapted my system (again), as I'm wary of condensation issues. Not sure I trust your method of carefully balancing the temperature to stay above condensation temps. That's all well and good in a dehumidified office but I basically live in a sauna... Going to build a full acrylic case, mineral oil filled and then cool the mineral oil with two TEC plates, linked to an equivalent heat sink/fan combo as yours (in this case a pair of Coolermaster Z600s) above copper rod based heat sinks into the oil itself. Couple of fans to produce a convection loop inside, and bam, around 400W+ of cooling power. Just wanted to test this all out first, got all the bits bar the TEC.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2408/exp-01/245W_Potted_Peltier.html

 

[threefingeredjack]

Urm... Ryan... Where on earth did you get your TEC from? I've spent the past 4 hours trawling the internet, ebay mainly but I trust nothing I've seen there so far. Purchase linky or a clue?

I've adapted my system (again), as I'm wary of condensation issues. Not sure I trust your method of carefully balancing the temperature to stay above condensation temps. That's all well and good in a dehumidified office but I basically live in a sauna... Going to build a full acrylic case, mineral oil filled and then cool the mineral oil with two TEC plates, linked to an equivalent heat sink/fan combo as yours (in this case a pair of Coolermaster Z600s) above copper rod based heat sinks into the oil itself. Couple of fans to produce a convection loop inside, and bam, around 400W+ of cooling power. Just wanted to test this all out first, got all the bits bar the TEC.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2408/exp-01/245W_Potted_Peltier.html

26amps!!!! :O:O:O:O

Ok...next question... where did you get your PSU? Also there does not appear to exist any way to automatically control that through a regular fan controller... I am beginning to see why you just run yours half cocked, bring in a second as necessary and use fans to control...

Might just do that... with an auto controller. Because... that's what I want to do. Crap on a stick though... 26 amps! I remember reading at the start about people blowing their PSUs. Now I know why. Gonna give that another read and see how to solve that.

Also: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Awesome-230W-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Cooler-12-VDC-TEC-/310148594011?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item48364bf95b

Any good or fishy?

Cheers!

 

[4Ryan6]

Urm... Ryan... Where on earth did you get your TEC from? I've spent the past 4 hours trawling the internet, ebay mainly but I trust nothing I've seen there so far. Purchase linky or a clue?

I've adapted my system (again), as I'm wary of condensation issues. Not sure I trust your method of carefully balancing the temperature to stay above condensation temps. That's all well and good in a dehumidified office but I basically live in a sauna... Going to build a full acrylic case, mineral oil filled and then cool the mineral oil with two TEC plates, linked to an equivalent heat sink/fan combo as yours (in this case a pair of Coolermaster Z600s) above copper rod based heat sinks into the oil itself. Couple of fans to produce a convection loop inside, and bam, around 400W+ of cooling power. Just wanted to test this all out first, got all the bits bar the TEC.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2408/exp-01/245W_Potted_Peltier.html

26amps!!!! :O:O:O:O

Ok...next question... where did you get your PSU? Also there does not appear to exist any way to automatically control that through a regular fan controller... I am beginning to see why you just run yours half cocked, bring in a second as necessary and use fans to control...

Might just do that... with an auto controller. Because... that's what I want to do. Crap on a stick though... 26 amps! I remember reading at the start about people blowing their PSUs. Now I know why. Gonna give that another read and see how to solve that.

Cheers!

Power Supply wise this is not a situation that you buy barely what the power supply is capable of handling load wise, as this is a constant power draw, so you need a quality single 12v rail power supply, with one peltier at least a 50a capable P/S and 2 peltiers at least an 80a capable P/S.

I'm using a SIlverstone 1000w 80a single 12v rail P/S, I'd recommend Silverstone, Corsair, SeaSonic, Enermax, or PCP&C.

Even though the peltier is spec'd at 26a that's at the spec'd 15.4v DC, since you'll only be feeding the peltier 12v DC it will be drawing more like 22a instead of 26a, and it actually draws 200w vs the rated 245w as I have tested that draw from the wall.

You get your peltier power from either the 8 pin motherboard connector or the 6 pin PCI-E cabling connector, (8 pin connector is best for 2 peltiers), as they are 14guage wires, I used 2 yellow positive 12v together soldered to a 12guage bridging wire, (bridging meaning the wire connecting the power supply to the peltier itself), positive to feed the peltier positive or red side, I use 2 black negative soldered together to the 12guage negative bridging wire to the peltier negative or Black side lead.

Do not use the power supplies 4pin Molex cabling it is 18guage wire and cannot support the amperage load, they will burn up on you!

OK hopefully this will get you past the initial shock therapy!

But now you're beginning to see what it takes to make this all work.

 

[threefingeredjack]

Why do I need a PSU larger than the rated amp draw? I'm not intended to use the PSU to power anything else besides the peltiers. I was thinking 30A each? Do these things genuinely draw less amps as they receive less voltage? I'm a total novice when it comes to electronics but that flies in the face of everything I understand. I can see that you'd need a higher amperage handling capability if you were using peltiers on a lower voltage and therefore they drew more amps?

1000W PSUs are EXPENSIVE things. This project was supposed to result in a cheap alternative to conventional cooling methods... now I might have to auction off a kidney.


And the peltier I found on Ebay? Any good?

 

[4Ryan6]

Why do I need a PSU larger than the rated amp draw? I'm not intended to use the PSU to power anything else besides the peltiers. I was thinking 30A each? Do these things genuinely draw less amps as they receive less voltage? I'm a total novice when it comes to electronics but that flies in the face of everything I understand. I can see that you'd need a higher amperage handling capability if you were using peltiers on a lower voltage and therefore they drew more amps?

1000W PSUs are EXPENSIVE things. This project was supposed to result in a cheap alternative to conventional cooling methods... now I might have to auction off a kidney.


And the peltier I found on Ebay? Any good?

I didn't say you had to have a 1000w power supply, I said that's what I am running, it was shelved from past computer upgrades, in my situation I did not buy the power supply just to run the peltiers, it was left over from an earlier SLI setup complete machine upgrade.

My amperage load suggestions are to keep you on the safe side and to keep your power supply from running wide open cooling wise, my power supply never kicks into the high cooling range even with both peltiers running, you can take a chance and do whatever you think will work and save that kidney, just let me know what happens.

I never said this cooling was a cheap investment, just that it 100% works, even though it could be much cheaper than some of the traditional radiator water cooling setups I have seen, with massive setups running 4 quad rads with 32 high static pressure 120mm Delta fans in a push/pull configuration, the fans alone were over $1,000.00 investment and still couldn't do any better than ambient, but it was quite impressive.

It's not a cheap alternative it is a below ambient alternative, if you duplicate my setup exactly from scratch having not one single part shelved to work with, you're looking at close to a $1,000.00 of cooling hardware, and that does not include a case to house it all, but when it's compared to some extreme radiator water cooling ambient setups that exceed $2,000.00, it is by far cheaper than that.

Scroll down to BDW88s Setup, what do you think he has invested in his traditional radiator cooling and still at ambient, or what do you think this traditional radiator setup costs and also still at the mercy of ambient?

Insane builds?
To the mass majority yes!
But to the individual No!

It would be nice to see what those guys would have done with the information in this thread to be able to run below ambient at less money than they had invested in their setups.

Just something to ponder.

Now regarding;

Do these things genuinely draw less amps as they receive less voltage? I'm a total novice when it comes to electronics but that flies in the face of everything I understand. I can see that you'd need a higher amperage handling capability if you were using peltiers on a lower voltage and therefore they drew more amps?

I think the amperage rating of the peltiers are spec'd to stay well on the safe side, here are the actual raw facts of my peltiers specs 15.4v 245w 26a.

It is receiving an actual 12v to power it (a solid fact) and it is using 200w increased wall load (also a solid fact), so calculated out, it is drawing an actual 16.9a, I had estimated 20a per peltier to stay on the safe side (because at this time I do not have a direct way to measure the actual amperage draw it is pulling), and that would be a minimum amperage target, per peltier, if the same spec'd peltier is used.

So acquiring a single 12v rail power supply with more than needed amperage capability is just the smart thing to do, does it have to be 1000w, No, but for 2 peltiers at least a 60a handling capability.

Here's just one suggestion it is a single 12v rail 62a power supply and Seasonic is a quality product.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151107

 

[threefingeredjack]

Why do I need a PSU larger than the rated amp draw? I'm not intended to use the PSU to power anything else besides the peltiers. I was thinking 30A each? Do these things genuinely draw less amps as they receive less voltage? I'm a total novice when it comes to electronics but that flies in the face of everything I understand. I can see that you'd need a higher amperage handling capability if you were using peltiers on a lower voltage and therefore they drew more amps?

1000W PSUs are EXPENSIVE things. This project was supposed to result in a cheap alternative to conventional cooling methods... now I might have to auction off a kidney.


And the peltier I found on Ebay? Any good?

I didn't say you had to have a 1000w power supply, I said that's what I am running, it was shelved from past computer upgrades, in my situation I did not buy the power supply just to run the peltiers, it was left over from an earlier SLI setup complete machine upgrade.

My amperage load suggestions are to keep you on the safe side and to keep your power supply from running wide open cooling wise, my power supply never kicks into the high cooling range even with both peltiers running, you can take a chance and do whatever you think will work and save that kidney, just let me know what happens.

I never said this cooling was a cheap investment, just that it 100% works, even though it could be much cheaper than some of the traditional radiator water cooling setups I have seen, with massive setups running 4 quad rads with 32 high static pressure 120mm Delta fans in a push/pull configuration, the fans alone were over $1,000.00 investment and still couldn't do any better than ambient, but it was quite impressive.

It's not a cheap alternative it is a below ambient alternative, if you duplicate my setup exactly from scratch having not one single part shelved to work with, you're looking at close to a $1,000.00 of cooling hardware, and that does not include a case to house it all, but when it's compared to some extreme radiator water cooling ambient setups that exceed $2,000.00, it is by far cheaper than that.

Scroll down to BDW88s Setup, what do you think he has invested in his traditional radiator cooling and still at ambient, or what do you think this traditional radiator setup costs and also still at the mercy of ambient?

Insane builds?
To the mass majority yes!
But to the individual No!

It would be nice to see what those guys would have done with the information in this thread to be able to run below ambient at less money than they had invested in their setups.

Just something to ponder.

Now regarding;

Do these things genuinely draw less amps as they receive less voltage? I'm a total novice when it comes to electronics but that flies in the face of everything I understand. I can see that you'd need a higher amperage handling capability if you were using peltiers on a lower voltage and therefore they drew more amps?

I think the amperage rating of the peltiers are spec'd to stay well on the safe side, here are the actual raw facts of my peltiers specs 15.4v 245w 26a.

It is receiving an actual 12v to power it (a solid fact) and it is using 200w increased wall load (also a solid fact), so calculated out, it is drawing an actual 16.9a, I had estimated 20a per peltier to stay on the safe side (because at this time I do not have a direct way to measure the actual amperage draw it is pulling), and that would be a minimum amperage target, per peltier, if the same spec'd peltier is used.

So acquiring a single 12v rail power supply with more than needed amperage capability is just the smart thing to do, does it have to be 1000w, No, but for 2 peltiers at least a 60a handling capability.

Here's just one suggestion it is a single 12v rail 62a power supply and Seasonic is a quality product.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151107

Cool. All good stuff! I don't doubt (nor have doubted at any point) the superiority of TEC cooling over water, as like you say, the best any given water cooled system could hope to attain, is ambient temps. How much is an air conditioner these days?

I get the impression you live in the states... which is a shame as I was going to ask if I could pay a visit and take a look at your system/bring an ammeter round to measure the draw...

I've asked a few TEC sellers about this peculiar amp/volt relationship TECs appear to have, hopefully I can get back to you with a decent reason for it. Meanwhile!

Did you take a look at the peltier I found on ebay and what are your thoughts?

Thisun

And;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-30A-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller-/121130110246?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1c33eacd26

What do you think? TEC plate controller for PC? No point running a peltier at full whack for no reason... sometimes you might only want half power... now as soon as I work out how to make it turn the fans up at the same time I think I'll be on to something.

 

[4Ryan6]

Cool. All good stuff! I don't doubt (nor have doubted at any point) the superiority of TEC cooling over water, as like you say, the best any given water cooled system could hope to attain, is ambient temps. How much is an air conditioner these days?

I get the impression you live in the states... which is a shame as I was going to ask if I could pay a visit and take a look at your system/bring an ammeter round to measure the draw...

I've asked a few TEC sellers about this peculiar amp/volt relationship TECs appear to have, hopefully I can get back to you with a decent reason for it. Meanwhile!

Did you take a look at the peltier I found on ebay and what are your thoughts?

Thisun

And;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-30A-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller-/121130110246?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1c33eacd26

What do you think? TEC plate controller for PC? No point running a peltier at full whack for no reason... sometimes you might only want half power... now as soon as I work out how to make it turn the fans up at the same time I think I'll be on to something.

I do live in the states in South Carolina, the original peltier link did not work, but this one does and that peltier is fine and a good price too.

As to whether the motor voltage controller will work? IDK

I control the cold output with the TRUEs cooling fan, I do not allow my computer to stay on all the time, only when I use it, so it's only drawing power to run the peltier or peltiers when it's running, so I do not need the voltage controller.

For your information gathering, my reservoir is not insulated to the point of long term cold retention, it's insulated for short term cold retention, meaning after it's been turned off for 12 hours the water temperature inside the reservoir is still below, but very close to ambient.

The reason for this is it avoids any cold booting problems and once the machine is powered the water temperature begins to drop, and continues to drop until it reaches and equalization point usually 7c ~ 8c below ambient room temperature.

A traditional radiator loop starts at ambient and increases heat in the above ambient zone until it reaches an equalization point above ambient, whereas mine starts close to the same but goes in the opposite direction to below ambient.

In the beginning I did play with controlling the voltage, but it caused the peltier to stall, getting what you can use from the peltier constantly, will require a constant voltage, at least in the way I am using the peltiers output, keeping it in a range of constant cold output.

I know some of this doesn't make any logical sense, the peltier is what it is, and sometimes reacts peculiarly, but you can milk what you want from it and enjoy the benefits, as long as you discover how to get what you want from it, without it stalling.

Once I discovered it's cold output could be controlled with the cooling fan on the Thermalright TRUE, there was no further reason to experiment with voltage regulation, so if you are going that route, please share what you discover.

 

[arthurh]

I would like everyone to know that I am duplicating this set-up Ryan has because I saw it in action myself last year. It does work and work well I might add.

I will be adding pictures once I have it up and running.