Tech Companies Dealing With Effects Of Trump's Immigration Ban

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This is what I was talking about.

Even if you feel a post is without merit or just plain insulting, please try to exercise some restraint.

Remember, attacks, parries, and counter-attacks will not change anyone's mind. And the thing that you'll hurt most is the community. So, just let it go, for the greater good.
 
''From an old Englishman's point of view'' saga-lout

all I see is how theres towns or communities city blocks that muslums took over and don't allow your police in or your police are too scared to go in and patrol and enforce your English laws ???

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/12/09/uk-cop-there-are-areas-we-have-to-ask-muslim-leaders-permission-to-patrol/

http://www.clarionproject.org/news/muslim-gangs-enforcing-sharia-london-streets#

then they now out number you in votes and elected one to the mayor of London ??

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/263887/londons-muslim-mayor-introduces-thought-police-robert-spencer

seems your close to loosing out your heritage your communities and way of British life ??

look at France all the muslums they let in seem peaceful just have a drink in a club and hope the guy next to you dont detonate or spray you with a automatic firearm

this ban is a good thing these folke are not like the old days of Irish folks escaping the potato famine or jews running from Hitler

these folks mean to do ''infidels '' harm and you can tell a terrorist from anyone . they even said that's how they were going to infiltrate these contrary's mix in under the lax immigration policies and set up camp . extreme vetting and background checks is whats needed , BIG TIME with these folks .

you need to stop flicking that cellphone screen once in a wile

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

your just being tolerated at the moment
 
I made the point it's too late to stop attacks happening and it's pointless to exclude folks who need help just to prevent a few more bad boys getting in.

You seem to agree with me. I don't get the mobile screen bit. I keep up with the news on the radio but the phone is just for getting work.
 
''I don't get the mobile screen bit. ''' ...LOL......

folks act like zombies staring at there phones and flicking the screens all day and night . neve pick there nose up out of it .. one of my friends from Germany joked ''you can tell its a American cause he never looks up from or puts down his smart phone'' ... and so true its like there hypnotized /brainwashed by them - finger on screen and flick, flick, flick 24/7

I don't own one just a old land line phone and my desktops no tablets nothing - more to life then staring at a smartphone all day

well looks like another attack in france

https://www.yahoo.com/news/soldier-shoots-knife-attacker-near-louvre-paris-police-094304127.html

welcomed in with open arms and got ass kissed from you bleeding harts awwww,,,
 
France has always welcomed anyone from one of their former colonies and protectorates, many of which have predominantly Moslem populations.

The troublemakers are only a tiny minority and France won't change that policy on that basis. Hopefully neither will the UK. Short term populist solutions rarely work for long.
 
Always a progressive idea to hire people from countries that want to kill us. Didn't obama say something about "workplace violence"?
 
Have you seen the latest startup? Take your front door off its hinges and put a sign on your front door..."help yourself, but leave the women and children alone."
 


Sadly, if they choose to, they'll ignore the "but" part and go for the women and children anyway. (It's seen more often than acknowledged with violent crimes... cooperation/pacifism is no guarantee you won't be at the very least physically harmed. Neither do such statements guarantee anything other than "easy target.")
 
Bit_user, you are a peacemaker & I appreciate your efforts. I apologize for calling people mental midgets. It just irritates me when someone takes a small piece of specific info & then generalizes it to areas where it doesn't fit.
 
Hey, thanks for writing that.

I could certainly get into the fray, but I just think this kind of forum is not good for changing anybody's mind. All we'll succeed in doing is getting worked up and maybe some folks get banned who are otherwise valuable contributors (or would have grown into ones).

I think, in a group of people who already share common interests or common purpose, politics has the potential to divide, more than anything else. That's why I avoid politics (and religion), at my job.

I think, if we can just follow the policy of tech in every post, then we can steer clear of most trouble (at least in political threads).
 
Here in the UK, the allegation would be that the immigrants work for a lot less than the home-grown graduates.

I don't understand that point of view because the cost of living is the same for everyone but I accept it's possible the local folks have higher expectations of living standards.
 

Is that not what this immigration ban is doing though? Taking a small piece of specific info (that a tiny proportion of the population could be terrorists that would perpetrate an attack on American soil if they are allowed in the country) and generalizing it the the entire population of 7 nations?
 
As a friendly reminder, ad hominem, personal attacks will not be tolerated in this thread.

Here's a quick rule of thumb to determine if the thing you are saying is ad hominem or not:

Is the thing you are saying attacking the argument, or the person making the argument?
• If attacking the argument - good job! Keep going!
• If attacking the person making the argument - stop, you've already lost the exchange by being unable to object to the merit or flaws of the other side's points. Re-word and depersonalize your assertions.

-JP
 
TJ Hooker - Ok, let's look at that. 1) We are not talking about a tiny portion of the population. But, without the proper security clearance, I wouldn't expect you to know that. 2) You use the words 'could' & 'would'. Not so. 'Can' & 'will' are the reality. And, 3) the ban is not targeting the population of these nations but, rather, the nations themselves. If I advised you not to go to Chicago because of the violence there, would you say that I was racist because of the high concentration of African Americans there? I suspect you might. However, the truth is that I am against bullets coming at me. I don't care who's shooting!!
 

Do you have statistics as to what proportion of the population of these countries are terrorists who are targeting the US? Do you have evidence of past terrorist attacks propagated (or attempted) by citizens of these countries, and evidence of ongoing attempts? Are you implying you have some sort of national security related job that provides you with non-public information in this regard?

And, 3) the ban is not targeting the population of these nations but, rather, the nations themselves.
Click to expand...
...What? Whatever, I don't think it's worth arguing about whether the ban targets people or nations, as ultimately the people are the ones affected by it.

If I advised you not to go to Chicago because of the violence there, would you say that I was racist because of the high concentration of African Americans there? I suspect you might. However, the truth is that I am against bullets coming at me. I don't care who's shooting!!
Click to expand...
A more appropriate analogy would be treating anyone from Chicago as suspicious for no other reason than that they're from there, and requiring they be investigated before you let them into your state/city/whatever.
 
I cannot & will not answer the first part of your reply, although I completely understand why you would ask. Your questions are to the point & valid. The answers ARE available in the public domain if you care to research.
And, yes I agree that the people are the ones ultimately affected by the ban. But, they are not the only ones. There are repercussions for the governments of their countries as well. The ban would not have been enacted unless US intelligence had proof that they harbored terrorists.
And, yes, your analogy is good but my analogy has merit.
Let me make a larger point; and it may not apply to you - a lot of people are calling this a 'muslim ban'. It is not. The word 'muslim' does not appear anywhere in the text of the Executive Order (I know, I know - people will say that it is implied). There are specific exclusions in the order to allow those with visas, green cards, and anyone suffering from religious persecution to enter the US on a case by-case basis.
While I am painfully aware that President Trump said a lot of really stupid things during the campaign (things that made me wince & wish I could hit him up side of the head), I do not believe the he is anti-anyone. I served my country for 20+ years, through 2 wars, and I just want to give him the same chance that I would give to any new president. Just my opinion.
 
Origins of the 19 hijackers from 9/11
Nationality Number

Saudi Arabia 15
United Arab Emirates 2
Egypt 1
Lebanon 1

1993 shootings at CIA Headquarters
The attacker: Pakistani national Mir Qazi

2009 Little Rock recruiting office shooting
The attacker: American Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, born Carlos Leon Bledsoe

2009 Fort Hood shooting
The attacker: Nidal Malik Hasan an American born in Arlington County, Virginia, to Palestinian parents who immigrated to the U.S. from the West Bank.

Boston Marathon bombing
The attackers: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and Tamerlan Tsarnaev Chechen-American brothers

Curtis Culwell Center attack
The attackers: Elton Simpson an American was born in Illinois and raised in suburban Westmontand, and Nadir Hamid Soofi Soofi's American he was born at Presbyterian Hospital of Dallas and lived in Garland uthen moved to Plano, Texas, and then Alabama

2015 Chattanooga shootings
The attacker: Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez a naturalized American citizen, was born in Kuwait

2015 San Bernardino attack
The attackers: Syed Rizwan Farook was an American-born U.S. citizen of Pakistani descent and Tashfeen Malik a Pakistani-born permanent resident

2016 Orlando nightclub shooting
The attacker, Omar Mateen, American born, New York. His parents were Afghan

2016 Ohio State University attack
The attacker, Somali refugee Abdul Razak Ali Artan

7 Countries in the Trump Muslin ban:
Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen

So only one of the terrorist attacks carried out in the USA from before the 9/11 attack till now was carried out by anyone from the countries on Trump Ban list. Somalia and the guys family said he was mad about Trump's anti-Muslim shtick. All the other countries that the terrorist came from, plus Alabama, Texas and Virginia are not on the ban list.

However none of those countries has any Trump business or Hotels. This ban has nothing to do with making America safer, just making Trump more money.
 


http://cis.org/vaughan/study-reveals-72-terrorists-came-countries-covered-trump-vetting-order
But that isn't counting the attackers we STOP before they commit a crime. Such as the 72 that ARE from the 7 countries on the list that have been thwarted since 9/11. Do we have to wait for a bunch of people to be killed before the argument counts? I say that is too late then.

"The United States has admitted terrorists from all of the seven dangerous countries:

Somalia: 20
Yemen: 19
Iraq: 19
Syria: 7
Iran: 4
Libya: 2
Sudan: 1
Total: 72

According to the report, at least 17 individuals entered as refugees from these terror-prone countries. Three came in on student visas and one arrived on a diplomatic visa.

At least 25 of these immigrants eventually became citizens. Ten were lawful permanent residents, and four were illegal aliens. "

You can read the rest yourself. That is without Obama helping since he wouldn't five information up. It will take more digging to find more now that trump has access to the data.
 
Okay, so let's take that as a given. Why would we let in people from any country? Surely, you can find terrorists or murderers (not to mention criminals) from each and every one, if you go back far enough. If we don't let in anyone from anywhere, then no foreigners can hurt Americans, unless we go abroad. Or through hacking. So, then we'd better not travel, and maybe this whole internet thing was a bad idea, too.

When you try to oppose or justify things based on a small number of examples, it can lead to really twisted conclusions.

So, what to do? As with any security challenge, take reasonable precautions, use a layered security model, and base your policies on principle and pragmatic risk assessment. And don't forget that some amount of risk is inevitable, in a free and just society. Unless you want to live in a police state, that's the price of liberty.

Look at the flip side, and too much overheated, anti-muslim rhetoric can actually make things worse, for everybody. Eventually, there might be a terrorist attack of some sort (with recruiting of homegrown terrorists aided by all the feelings of persecution), provoking a far worse reaction by the public and maybe some authorities. If nobody taps the brakes, this is what happens:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

Let's not forget that when we become divided and compromise on our liberties & principles, we're handing the terrorists a dear victory, indeed.

Keep some perspective. It's a big world, with a lot of people. Bad stuff is gonna happen, from time to time. Let's deal with risks and threats sanely, and not blow things out of proportion. Cars, guns, and diabetes kill a lot more Americans than terrorism, but we don't ban driving, gun ownership, or sugar.

Instead of obsessing over terrorism, let's mind it appropriately but focus on getting the most out of the days we have (shocking truth: we'll all die, someday).
 


Who's blowing things out of proportion? My perspective is pretty good IMHO. I'm not worried about USA pulling a holocaust...jeez. That is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure the jews didn't do anything to bring it on either (were they chanting death to germany in the streets??). Not the same thing with immigrants from other countries. This particular group of people shout hate of our way of life and US (we are infidels, and the majority do NOT integrate). Nobody is advocating killing people, just blocking entry to a country before they possibly tear USA apart or bankrupt us. I don't hear germans, italians, french etc chanting death to america these days. The odds of us getting a terrorist from someone we actually can easily VET people from is far different than from places who don't even have a govt intact to attempt to vet people.

You're equating a radical ideology with accidents that happen with something like hammers and nails? Please. Nothing insane about BORDERS and limiting WHO comes over them. Other countries have already been trying it YOUR way, and they're now blowing up etc 😉 No thanks. Sure we put away a few innocent people in jail, but our justice system (for the most part) works. It is far better than not having one right? Nobody has the RIGHT to come here. WE have the right to reject ANYONE.

BTW canada has a point system on how they judge you before you get in there (like what is your earning potential, years left to work, PROOF of funds etc). Australia does too. Never mind how tough it is to get into Mexico...LOL. Sorry, I just don't see how EXTREME vetting is anything close to what other countries ALREADY follow for their own policy. Of course we have some bad apples (in our own country or even coming from great countries), but no point in inviting them on purpose from certain areas when we could take some really GREAT people who WANT to be AMERICAN for real and would be an ASSET to our country from day 1.

"As with any security challenge, take reasonable precautions, use a layered security model, and base your policies on principle and pragmatic risk assessment."

Yeah, that is what extreme vetting is and it should be done to everyone, along with POINTS system etc to see if you're even worthy of getting in (if you're a drain on USA economy, have no skills to offer, CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH, etc, goodbye try another country). My examples were merely given as a rebuttal to the OP acting as though these people don't exist. Just ask Switzerland how they like that rape and violent crime these days (where they used to have next to none). Think Italy etc just want to tamp the brakes?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712168/Swiss-migrant-crackdown-Italian-border
You can google a ton of articles covering what is happening now that we've reached CRISIS mode in many places who had "open borders" or anything similar as their policy.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712125/Angela-Merkel-admits-regrets-open-door-migrant-policy
"If I could, I would turn back the time by many, many years." said Merkel.

I don't think Trump will have to say the same thing in 4yrs. Well, he may say something like "wish we could turn back time before Obama hit". :) I'm all for SMART immigration, but anything less than the creme of the crop? Forget it. Set up safe zones in THEIR area of the world until we figure out how to fix their problems and get them back home. No need to invite those people here where we already can't afford to insure everyone, feed everyone, etc and already owe 20Trillion in debt. We have our own problems :)
 
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