That $200-Cheaper iMac's RAM is Not Upgradeable

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Status
Not open for further replies.

Unless you get a DOA chip, RAM is extremely rarely the first thing that dies in a computer... semiconductors in properly designed devices rarely fail unless something else fails first or an external event triggers the failure.
 
Knowing iFixit they will still give this a 4+ in repairabiltiy even though the third most replaced component (after hdd and power supply) can't be fixed...
 
And you are right again invalid error but the point is that there's no NEED for soldered ram chips here except for apple to save some money in a pricey aio.
Sk8er instead knows jack s##t and should trust some expert.
 
Anyway just to be thorough, Sk8er, my point was that while you CAN'T fit normal ram modules inside the macbook air or the surface pro 3 you could surely fit them in the residual volume left on a 21" imac. I thought that was pretty easy to understand.
 
When you compare high quality products Apple is usually not that expensive. You're just use to cheap plastic crap that dies every 2 years. But because it's cheap you just buy a new one.
Click to expand...
Yeahhh right, u can do all the talk about "high quality", but Apple couldnt even back it up with a long warranty. All imac come with 1 yr warranty by default, while anyone can easily setup a $500 PC with almost everything come with min 3yrs warranty. Come on? If Apple is soo realiable, whats stopping them to back it up with a long warranty? Back it up with 3-5yrs warranty by default, then we can start talking about quality product.
 

Apple scores high on reliability surveys because they have very good aftermarket tech support which users love. That's the problem with surveys - they're vulnerable to user bias. I've been a subscriber to Consumer Reports for 10+ years, and am very familiar with this failure mode of survey data. e.g. In their auto surveys, there's sometimes a disconnect between owner-reported satisfaction and owner-reported problem rates. Buyers of expensive cars report higher satisfaction despite their cars suffering more problems.

If you look at actual objective hardware failure rates, you'll find that Apple is only average (which makes sense - they don't actually build anything; they buy components and assemble them). Asus is actually who you should be buying from if you want something reliable. The companies who manufacture many of their own components (Asus, Samsung, Toshiba) tend to be the ones whose products are more reliable.
http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf
http://lifehacker.com/computer-manufacturers-ranked-how-to-pick-a-laptop-tha-1467145338

The first link is 2009 failure rate data from Square Trade - a company who sells those extended warranties the Best Buy folks try to talk you into buying. They compare by brand the number of computers which registers a warranty vs. the number which eventually file a warranty claim. The second link is 2013 data from RescueCom, a computer repair company. They compare the percentage of the brand name of the computers they repair to that brand name's market share to determine if its under- or over-represented in their repair shop.
 
Remember that people who buy Apple products are buying them for good customer service along with the pretty exterior casing. No one has ever bought a Mac for customization, if anyone wants to customize, they will build a PC. The only people who would buy the cheapest iMac model anyway would be consumers who are not enthusiasts and who would end up buying a new computer before upgrading RAM. Though it is unfortunate that the RAM is not upgradeable, this definitely should not be front page news.
 
How is this surprising? Soldered memory and decreasing amounts of "user-friendlyness" has been Apple's motto for the past few years. Everything they make is basically a MacBook Air in a different case. And yes, they make millions off repairs due to having to replace the mobo instead of individual components, it's also easier to manufacture and means they have that much more profit margin.

The only thing that drives Apple's hardware sales is their software, because OS X is still, sorry to say, infinitely better running and optimized than Windows will ever be.
 

It is the "motto" of nearly all device manufacturers out there: as soon as the technology to integrate more stuff in a single die, chip, package or board becomes economically viable versus status-quot, they do it to reduce costs and shrink the system.

Also, putting the RAM directly on the board right next to the CPU means shorter PCB traces - possibly short enough that they can turn off on-device termination to save power.
 
Your emotions are illogical. You don't know me so therefore any judgement is irrational. You really can't say I'm not an expert. Fact is I probably know way more than you. Especially with Vmware, citrix, Active Directory, and group policy. I've been on these forums before you were born.

Now explain to me why Lenovo uses soldered RAM and why that's ok? As soon as Apple does it it's the end of the world. It's pretty pathetic. I think if you Actually used a mac you would like it. You don't need the RAM and speed that you need on a PC because OS X is a better operating system. OS X is a unix based OS.

You kids just don't have a clue yet but you will when you get older. There's a point in your life where you just don't give a crap anymore. You stop building PC's and you just want something that is not a Dell or HP. Some people want to try something new and that's mac. When you get older you stop having time to do things like that. The last thing anyone adult wants to do is upgrade RAM. Maybe Macs are really for adults who want a professional device and the PC's are for little children who like to play with their toys.

Who you are to judge others for what they want though? You're nothing but a little kid throwing around temper tantrums because Apple. It's stupid.

That goes for the rest of you too. It's fine that you like PC's but you really don't have a clue what you're talking about when it comes to Apple because you've never owned one. believe me I bet every single one of you will own a mac when you get older because there comes a point in your life where you stop caring about this stupid PC vs Mac bullcrap.





 
Apple doesn't realize they're missing out on upgrade sales. Even though the average user who chooses this Mac probably won't need more, there are plenty of idiots who would choose 12 or 16gb of RAM just because they can, or think they actually need it.

I've seen plenty of storefronts sell an i3 with 1tb drive and 12 or 16 gigs of RAM.
 

Providing customization requires tooling the enclosure for easy access, training techs to customize off-the-assembly-line machines or upgrade them post-sale and means spending $3-5 extra on parts for every system that will never actually get such an upgrade. So, providing the ability to upgrade would likely cost Apple several times more money than anything they might earn from customized systems and post-sale upgrades.

They get a much fatter profit margin from people who actually care about being able to upgrade with extra RAM being forced to buy a whole new machine one tier higher up the ladder than entry-level.
 
Your emotions are illogical. You don't know me so therefore any judgement is irrational. You really can't say I'm not an expert. Fact is I probably know way more than you. Especially with Vmware, citrix, Active Directory, and group policy. I've been on these forums before you were born.
Click to expand...

I would strongly suggest that you speak only for yourself, I'm not anywhere near young anymore and I enjoy building my own PC at least once every four years or two generations of CPU/GPU (whichever comes first) and will continue to do so until they put me in a box.

As for apple, I don't have any issue with them soldering memory onto motherboards, especially if they make it very clear to their consumers that it cannot be upgraded. Other manufacturers have been making identical decisions on equipment for years. My problem with Apple is that they knowingly use Chinese slave labor to produce their goods for the lowest possible cost at the cost of human lives and then crusade in the United States for labor laws and other political causes while being the worst kind of capitalist example possible. Other manufacturers do the same thing, namely HP, but they're not crusading politically while doing so.

That's why I like to build my own devices, I can choose exactly what I want because I know where it was made and by whom.
 
Your emotions are illogical. You don't know me so therefore any judgement is irrational. You really can't say I'm not an expert. Fact is I probably know way more than you. Especially with Vmware, citrix, Active Directory, and group policy. I've been on these forums before you were born.
Click to expand...
Had a mbp, had an iphone, your argument is invaild. I'm not even a diy guy anymore.
I'm judging only what I see, objectively, I don't care whether it is Apple or Lenovo or anyone else. If this imac suits your need go ahead and buy it.
That said you should focus more on what the others say instead on focusing on the "you hate apple because [add any phrase]", you could even learn something.
When you'll be talking about Vmware, citrix, Active Directory, and group policy I'll be sitting quietly trying to learn from you.
 


Whoa there. You just blew up your entire argument ( "you don't know me" argument) by calling all these people kids when you don't know them either. Hardly the way to argue your point if you pretend to be the adult here, don't you think?
As far as the "old age" argument, it's not really holding any water. I am well into adulthood myself and still prefer to build/customize my systems as I see fit, instead of letting some company dictate what I can put in them and what I can't. Maybe you would like to enlighten us as to what precisely that age limit is (in your opinion), because I don't see hitting it any time soon. As a matter of fact, people that don't like to customize their PCs today (as adults, as you call them) never did that, I have quite a few friends that are younger than me that don't do it and quite a few that are older, never did it and don't do it.
Last point here: when throwing a lot of people into some categories you better back that up with solid statistical data (randomized, controlled studies), otherwise we'll be right to guess it all came out from a very dark hole. Just sayin'.
BTW, thanks for your contribution to the forums (maybe the only place left that's about helping people).
 
I mostly service PCs, but from time to time a Mac user pops up with a repair or upgrade requests. Apple users do get upset when I tell them that the RAM or SSD is integrated and cannot be replaced or upgraded.
 

Duplex mezzanine DIMM slots add ~8mm to thickness compared to mounting the RAM chips directly on the motherboard if you want the full 128bits memory interface.
 
Very sneaky profitable move for Apple. My company had an imac where the $125 graphics card went bad. It too was soldered to the mobo. In order to fix this part you had to spend $650 to but a new mobo. Now if your $40 RAM chip goes bad you will have to spend many more $$ o replace the mobo. Of course this was all per-planned by Apple, most likely with the guidance of their finance department...
Click to expand...

I totally agree with that. With memory size at 8GB it is getting more likely that one module will have a single bit error. Something that would be easily fixed on any other computer. Here you'll have to cough up the equivalence of a brand new PC to fix that....
 

Semiconductors hardly ever fail from aging as long as they are operated within their spec limits. If you get a bad bit on a DRAM chip, it was most likely there from day-1 but never tested exhaustively enough to catch it.
 


While I don't really see this as a big detractor, let's be real a second. An iMac sits on your desk and is not held in your hands. It does not move, and does not need to be ultra thin. You can tack on 2" to it, and on all practical purposes, it doesn't matter.

It is thin only for marketing purposes.
 

That is a misleading picture, they are not that thin all the way across. They taper at the end.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom