The Apple Mac Cost Misconception

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Hyundai's do have nice European exteriors:

http://www.hyundaigenesis.com/
 
[citation][nom]OneLineAtATime[/nom]" Its not the price of the hardware you have to worry about. THE MOST MONEY WILL GO INTO YOUR TIME BUILDING, SUPPORTING, and DEALING WITH THE INCLUDED SOFTWARE.[/citation]

One thing worth pointing out is how Apple defenders always go to the "superior support" argument. Yes, their support is superior BUT if you really are that dependent on support then obviously the hardware isn't that good.

I went 8 years with Mac in the PPC days and NEVER had to call Apple support because the hardware was bulletproof. But since switching back in 06 then I've taken in our Macbooks about a dozen times on various issues. So does that tell me that Apple support is up or that Apple quality is down?

Bottom line is that no matter what brand you buy (Dell, HP, Apple, DIY) you WILL replace it soon so why invest so much into something disposable.
 
"Interestingly enough I took the plunge and just felt like something different so built a Mac Pro with the following specs:"

You did not build a "Mac Pro". You built a PC Clone....

 
Honestly as an Apple person myself, I agree that Apple's are overpriced in comparison to the Windows/Unix desktops/laptops. Taking two examples of all the hardware available in the market for Unix/Windows is not exactly a fair comparison. I would like to suggest that the main reason Apple's are overpriced is lack of support for the newest hardware, which will tend to drive down the price on competitor's models that are equivalent. Usually when a new Apple Laptop comes out the price difference isn't as great, but as a month or two go by that changes dramatically.
 
I decided to compare for myself, based on the recommendations others made to look at the Dell XPS M1530. I started by selecting the base model at $999 and configuring it as close as possible to the base model MacBook Pro. The only addition I made to the MBP was to upgrade to a 250GB HDD, so I could match up storage capacity. My goal was to make 2 machines with specs as closely matched as possible here and compare the cost.

Here's the Dell breakdown.. Starts at $999.

1. CPU - Upgrade to T8300 2.4 Ghz C2D +$175
2. OS - Upgrade to Vista Ultimate +$150
3. Screen - Upgrade to 1440x900 LED backlit display +$125
4. Memory - both systems have 2GB DDR2 667 Mhz FSB, so no change
5. HDD - Upgrade to 250GB with motion sensor (The MBP has a motion sensor too) +$250
6. Optical - Both systems have a DVD+/-RW, so no change
7. Video - Upgrade to Nvidia 8600M GT 256MB (same as MBP) +$100
8. WLAN - Upgrade to Dell 1505 Wireless-N +$25
9. Mobile broadband - skipped
10. Bluetooth - Upgrade to internal BT 2.0+EDR +$20
11. Battery - No change, as they'r roughly the same capacity (56 vs 60 WHr)
12. Modem - skip, neither has a modem
13. Audio - standard HD Audio
14. Media Apps - Add Adobe Premiere Elements (MBP has iMovie/iDVD) +$79
15. No Games/Gaming Accessories/Hot Deals/Laptop Bags/External Mouse/external storage/speakers/networking accessories/tv tuners/extra power stuff/top selling sw/
16. Warranty - kept standard, since they match.
17. No further options

Total price on this Dell XPS M1530, configured to match the base MacBook Pro? $1923. The base cost on the MBP was $1999 + $50 to move up to a 250GB HDD, for a total of $2049. Total cost difference $126, or a 6.5% premium.

Any time I can pay less than 7% more for a computer that lets me run Mac OS X instead of Windows Vista, sign me up.
 

Why Vista Ultimate? Does OSX come standard with the following features that Ultimate has over Home Premium?:
- Backup and Restore functions for your whole system
- Windows scan and fax
- Remote desktop
- Windows BitLocker drive encryption

If it does not contain those functions you can add another $150 to the price disparity (since Home Premium comes standard).
 
@ jcostom:

I did the exact same thing you did for an M1730 and 17" MBP and came out with this (same components - except for 8600M GT for MBP, and 8700M GT for Dell - in different cases):

MBP - $2949
Dell - $2508 (with Ultimate, since you did as well)

Difference - $441 (17.6% premium for Mac, even though the Dell is graphically more powerful)
 
I like to believe that this is related to recognizing and acknowledging aesthetics, design and quality. Are there discussions on art, architecture and automobile sites that question the price of a work by Basquiat, a building by Gehry or a car by Ferarri? Probably... but on completely different terms...

Sure you can build the same for less. Have fun doing so...
 
[citation][nom]KyleSTL[/nom]Why Vista Ultimate? Does OSX come standard with the following features that Ultimate has over Home Premium?:- Backup and Restore functions for your whole system- Windows scan and fax- Remote desktop- Windows BitLocker drive encryptionIf it does not contain those functions you can add another $150 to the price disparity (since Home Premium comes standard).[/citation]

Yes:
Backup & Restore handled by Time Machine, to an external drive (can be wireless if desired) backs up any changes hourly, allows simple individual file restore up to a whole system restore, to a completely different mac if needed. (eg backup your macbook air which gets stolen so you can restore your os drive to your macpro)
Faxing was initially missing from OS X in 2001 after being in previous OSes. Was put back in in 2003 and inproved eg can auto email incomming faxes to you as pdf attachments etc
File Vault introduced in 2003 (10.3) handles home folder encryption, which is where all your files, application data, prefereences, everything for that user is stored. It's like your my documents folder, and all registry entries related to you etc. Also you can choose to run individual apps or many or documents from encrypted password protected disk images if you like. EG, if you can an alias (shortcut) to a sensitive file on the desktop, but the real file was inside a password protected disk image and the application was in a different password protected disk image, when you click the alias it would ask for both passwords. But file vault is a global your home folder is encrypted type setup.
Screen sharing is the remote desktop equivalent. You can enable VNC access if you desire to be controlled by other VNC clients. Microsoft has free remote desktop app to enable remote desktop style control of PC's or you could put a VNC server on 'em if you want.

BTW, Photoshop keeps wanting to auto-update itself, which I do not want it to as it's not a 'real' version. I simply typed sudo chmod ugo-x into terminal, and dragged and dropped the updater program into terminal which typed the full path to the file and hit return. Now no one has execute privileges for the updater, and it cannot run. Having that style of unix control over your system is very useful. (to me, not to everyone obviously)
 
[citation][nom]KyleSTL[/nom]Why Vista Ultimate? Does OSX come standard with the following features that Ultimate has over Home Premium?:- Backup and Restore functions for your whole system- Windows scan and fax- Remote desktop- Windows BitLocker drive encryptionIf it does not contain those functions you can add another $150 to the price disparity (since Home Premium comes standard).[/citation]

Let's see. Backup & Restore? Time Machine. You can even restore a full system restore using it.

Scan & Fax? Your scanner gave you the ability to scan to PDF, I trust. Mac OS X has had integrated Faxing for some time now.

Remote Desktop? Sure - System Prefs > Sharing > Remote Management - flip on VNC.

BitLocker? FileVault. Been there since before Vista ever shipped.

Thanks for taking it easy on me.. :)
 
Bitlocker and FileVault are different things.

FileVault - encrypts your "Home Folder"(unless they have changed it in the last OS-X). This is more similar to the folder/file encrypt option that even windows 2000 had it.

Bitlocker can get fairly secure needing a TPM module, pin number, and usb drive(keep it in a safe place.) with the startup key on it to even boot. For someone who is less paranoid just one of the above.
 
When the new HP or whatever Blackbird came out a few months ago, I compared it spec and price wise to my quad 2.8GHz Mac Pro. It spec'd out toe to toe with the quad 2.8GHz Blackbird. There were only two differences I can remember, ok, 3 to be honest. The Blackbird had the plastic case and a water cooled system. The Mac Pro had the aluminum case and it was air cooled. Each had the same speed processor, same 320GB HD, 2GB RAM, 8800GT, etc... and the Mac Pro cost $200 less. It was $350 less because Apple offers free shipping and HP charged $150 for shipping.

Don't get me wrong here. Certainly, Windows boxes certainly have their place. They can certainly hit price points that Apple does not (I want my $1300 tower Apple!!!) I don't drive a Honda because it's going to pick up ladies with all of its horsepower. To compare a gaming rig to a workhorse isn't the best comparison I know but some of you need to put your thinking caps on here. Some people like the simplicity of the machine and the OS over the cost. I was tired of Windows and the issues I was having. I am glad I switched to a Mac Pro and OS X- I can quit worrying about the BSOD.
 
I asked those questions about Ultimate because I'm completely inexperienced with OSX and it's features. I still believe Macs come at a premium over their PC equivalents (as my Macbook 17" example shows).
Each had the same speed processor, same 320GB HD, 2GB RAM, 8800GT, etc... and the Mac Pro cost $200 less.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry to say that it's completely missing the point to spec a Blackbird out with a single 8800GT. It is an ultra-high-end retail gaming system that commands 2-3 video cards to justify the premium of the system design (i.e. case, liquid cooling system, tray-loaded-prewired hard drive system, etc)
 
the Mac pro has a better motherboard than compared to in this article... not to split hairs.. but

doesnt the mac pro support more pci express lanes? I know there are 4 x16 slots
and the raid controller supports SAS SCSI drives
, and doesnt it have support for twice the memory.. its a modified skulltrail platform, and the board in the article is not.

lets just try to end the debate here...

#1 Apple needs to make a better cheaper desktop and laptop including gaming machines.
#2 Windows completely sucks, if you are still running windows you need your freaking head examined. (except for games, for until a major migration you will still need winblows to run games.. but thats ending with virtualization.

 
As other users have pointed out; Mac prices are way too high. I just bought a Mac-Mini. It cost me $1000 Canadian dollars. For the same configuration I could've bought a nice PC computer for 1/2 of that price + it would've been easy to upgrade.

Sorry my fellow Mac user, but you're wrong Mac cost unreasonably higer.
 
"Windows completely sucks, if you are still running windows you need your freaking head examined"

You need to get with the program, my friend. It's a Windows world. For me, buying Apple is like smoking. Easy to get hooked as a kid, but when you grow up and look back on the years of puffing you realize that it represents little more than a hell of a lot of cash down crapper.
 
I don't understand the fact that you only play games on pc and do all your other work on a Mac. Why not just have a PC so you can play games AND do your work? It's not the OS it's the software that matters. I've used Photoshop on both Macs and PCs and it works the same.
 
Oh yeah, and the problem with macs is that they are PCs. The only diff is the OS so I should be able to buy it for my 3 month old system instead of laying out all the extra for hardware to run it on.
 
You compared a mac with a dell? Are you a living joke? There are tons of brand that can whip that mac for $2000, if not a lot less (try an Asus..heck, even Vaio).
And what's the point of building a Mac Pro clone? Are you trying to say that a pound of feathers weigh the same as a pound of bricks? Well, yea, it does. Maybe you should put some thought in your arguments before writing up an article about this.
Yes, Mac OS X is a great OS .. for the computer challenged anyways. Yea, it is user friendly (Read: Fool-proof), and as such, it is very limited in options compared to Windows.
Well, it's understandable you have write a bias for the mac to to even have a point. I mean, if you wanted to be purely indifferent to both sides, you won't be writing a Pro-Mac article.
 
I agree with many that have posted before me that the article fails to prove its point and could have been better written. I understand that Mac owners love their hardware, but there's no point in disputing obvious price difference.

I do have one thing in common with Mac fans though: I also dislike windows. Not because of any technical issues, but because I don't think that one company should have 90% market share. Sure, we have many Linux distros ( I have Suse) but lack of support from many developers makes it hard to use. It's endless vicious cycle with Linux: very few people get it because almost nobody writes applications (games) for it. Very few developers make Linux software because so few people have it. But it's obvious that we can have popular, easy to use Linux based OS (look no further than OSX)
That's one thing that ruins a sleep of many at microsoft. They know that if linux ever gains popularity days of Windows might be numbered. Even if Windows is better OS, it would be hard to compete with something that is free. Ballmer once referred to Linux as a cancer.

Concluding, I have say that because of the price Mac will not be viable alternative for me any time soon. But I appreciate Apple in the sense that it forces ms to compete again.
 
Apple has "arguably" the best built and most user friendly OS on the market. With vast opinions of Leopard being that is it the most buggy version of Mac OS and the integration of Intel components Mac users are left asking is the value in the "Mac dollar" still what it was. I do understand why Apple require the use of there hardware and that is simply that the quality of product can then be controlled. I would however like to see Apple compromise with a bare-bone system so Apple gets to keep there logo on the box and control the motherboard used but allow the user to choose there CPU, RAM, Video card etc. Then the price point of an Apple could be a lot closer to the home built PC and people like me who love to tinker with there computers insides can enjoy them a bit more.

I must hand it to Apple there OS is fantastic but as it gets more popular it will probably become prone to attacks like MS. I do like how there next OS "Snow Leopard" has already been announced as next to no new features and will be designed to make your existing computer run better. If it's price pointed right and does have the significant improvements they say it will it should be a good seller. As for games on Mac's just take a look at Cyder and the fact that it is now being adopted by bug gaming companies such us EA. Apple is making a big statement in the market and the bigger it gets the more these other companies will support it.

In conclusion Mac OS isn't made for everyone and if you just want a computer at a price it's not for you... yet anyway. MS Windows isn't for everyone either as not everyone wants to deal with maintaining the tool thats supposed to be there to help you and Linux isn't for everyone because not everyone really even knows what it is, let alone how to use it. If you want it all in one buy a Mac and run any OS you want.
 
your only comparing mac pro and there laptops, what if you want a mid-range desktop. enter the imac but i haven't paid a grand for a computer since 1997 and i dont think their is a need to.

the mini is the only sub $1000 dollar computer and it is only entry level.

the mini is obviously a crippled entry level computer.

they could drop the decked out mini and give us mid-range tower also without a monitor.

also us pc users are used to being able to replace components such as the video card or monitor.

 
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