The Apple Mac Cost Misconception

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I think the Apple hardware is pretty spot on for the quality of build you get. I also agree that the upgrades are outrageously expensive but there are heaps of alternatives. I personaly own 2 iMacs (Aluminum) and a Macbook. As great as they are I still love my PC games and have missed them quite a lot. Like most people I can't afford a Mac Pro but don't want a boring PC. I recently got a bit "naughty" and built a Hackintosh. Details below. Before I go on further I just want to make it clear that if you haven't used a Mac before, DO NOT start with a hackintosh as the problems you will most likely encounter will ruin the Mac experience entirely for you. The system I built has what I want in a Mac and leaves out the stuff I just simply don't need. For legal reasons this comment is hypothetical and is in no way a recommendation for anyone to break Apple's EULA's etc. blah blah. 😉

I carefully picked the following hardware. (Bare in mind I was working to a budget of au$1100)

Asus Barebone T3-P5G31
Intel E8400 Core 2 Duo 3.0Ghz
4GB (2 x 2GB) Kingston DDR2 800Mhz Ram
2 x Seagate 160GB SATA2 Hard Drives (Already had them) $0
Viewsonic 22" LCD
TP Link WM550G wlan
Asus EN8600GT 512MB PCI-E Video Card
Genuine Apple Keyboard & Mouse

Then download from "somewhere" iAtkos v4.0i which is a modified version of Leopard 10.5.4 that runs on non Apple Intel based PC's.

The rest I'm sure you can figure out with a bit of googling and experimenting.


Basically my setup is dual boot XP SP2 and Leopard (iAtkos v4.01). I find this setup is best for both games and mac power. It is all round much better that any of my real Mac's for performance but has the obvious lack of Apple support and the risk of breaking if I install the wrong updates.

This system was the most fun build I have ever done but as soon as Apple makes a desktop that I can play with and update more that just the RAM at iMac pricing I'm there.

Just to be clear to everyone I'm not an Apple Fan Boy. I love Linux, Windows and Mac OS. I just believe that each OS has it's strong points and if I can utilize them all, Yey for me.

If you guys at Toms Hardware have to remove this for the whole MacOS on PC hardware thing at least give it a try and see how much fun I had. :)
 
Just to quote Steve Jobs.... "Why do people think that for Apple to win Microsoft has to loose." PC's are great in there own way as Mac's are great in there own way. Everyone needs to stop arguing over which computer is better and instead start playing and enjoying the vast variety all these distributors are giving us.
 
lol @ all the pc fags. HAVe FUN WITH YOUR BLUS SCREENS OF DAETH!!1!1!
 
"For $1549 I purchase an HP laptop w/ 4 GB of RAM, 20.1 inch screen, Blu-Ray, 5 speakers, and an Nvidia 8800 GTS. My system absolutely crushes that $2000 MacBook Pro in every category..."

... yeah and it crushes your back, if you try to lug it around.
 
------------
MISTAKES
------------

Supermicro MBD-X7DWE-O Dual LGA 771 $429.99
Intel Xeon X3360 Yorkfield 2.83GHz x 2 $1109.98
Kingston HyperX 2 GB ECC FB-DIMM $134.99
Seagate Barracuda 320 GB SATA 3.0 $79.99
Sapphire Radeon HD 2600XT 256 MB $34.99
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE 7.1 $27.99
Cirago BTA Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR USB $9.99
SYBA 1394a FireWire400 Controller $12.99
SYBA 1394b FireWire800 Controller $29.95 on outletpc.com
Lite-On DL-DVD Burner $23.99
Lian-Li PC-A71A Aluminum Full Tower $229.99
Thermaltake Toughpower W0155RU $319.99
Keytronic E06101USBC Keyboard $38.99
Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical OEM $11.99
Ubuntu Linux $0.00
Total price $2495.84
Price difference $303.16
🙂
 
I'm a long time PC user and I now own a Mac, not because I want to be 'cool'. I'm sorry, but until Microsoft can break the 3.9gigabyte barrier I won't turn back. And don't tell me that Vista's new 64bit architecture can do it because last I checked, there isn't any software for it. Bottom line, you want to edit raw video to cut to a DVD (that 8 gigabytes folks). Don't go looking to doing it on a Windows box.

What you are paying for with Mac is software. In the example of software that works well, not just sorta works or comes close enough. Compare iMovie with Windows Movie Maker. M$ is a joke. And I know alot of pirates out there that just can't justifying paying for intellectual property... too bad. Intel has been upping its processor instruction set and making optimizations left and right, but guess what? 90% of M$ software isn't compiled to take advantage of any of it... Want cutting edge hardware for cheap (but doesn't work to its full potential)? Buy a PC. Want yesterdays hardware that will actually get the job done today? Buy a Mac.
 
I ran windows and mac-based for so many years, and did the dual o/c celeron abit mobo stuff, and then went amd and had a golden finger to overclock with and all that jazz, and it was fun.

But now I don't have to run any antivirus/antispyware stuff, i never have to edit the registry or reload windows every 12 months to keep things snappy.

My only regret is that I now use a chipped console for games, and I did enjoy gaming on a PC.

I can use curl and the vast land of insanely useful cli unix tools in scripts combined with automator and applescript if need be, it's an incredible power user system.

I would have considered linux, but it's not mainstream enough for my work eg no Cubase/ProTools/Logic just very poor substitutes.

I keep parallels (like VMWare Fusion) handy with XP SP3 for when i want to burn disc image from a torrent that was done with Magic ISO, for me anyway that's about all windows is good for now.

If anyone has bothered to read this far, I have sold my mac computer without fail every 9-11 months since dabbled in OSX86project then got a real mac back in 2006. On eBay, every single time, i have got no less than 90% of the original purchase price of the Mac. I have never had a 'current' machine so cheaply so often, they hold their value ridiculously, idiots on eBay pay nearly new prices for old models in my experience.

All i do is clone my internal boot drive to a usb drive, wipe & sell the machine, and boot the new machine off the USB drive and clone it back. Note i can use the machine whilst it's being cloned. (not sure if you can do this in windows yet, i used to use ghost from dos in the days of yore)

Anyway, here's to Microsoft cutting some ties with the past and removing the system registry from windows! Then I very well may come crawling back.
 
To be honest, it doesn't matter what any of you think, Apple isn't targeting people who analyse components of computers, or even people who know what a processor is. They are targeting consumers with the "cool" factor. For example, my aunt just bought an iMac because (and I quote) "Well, just look at it!"
 
"Apple needs to launch a Mac tower, with components in line with the iMac, which would prove to be more sensible and popular as well as more affordable. Interested buyers would then have an option of an expandable machine that?s not priced at Mac Pro levels."

I wish this will happen one day!Im a Mac user/fun and i dont like the iMac idea but i dont need what MacPro offers me, cus its too much, why not giving buyers the flexibility to get a tower, with whatever the want inside? That would be awesome. i really wish this will happen one day!!
 
[citation][nom]willgonz[/nom]Ok for one thing. Those systems out there that are like $600. Those systems are priced to sell. They are made with cheap components and their warranties are 1 year or less.[/citation]

Every single Mac comes with a 1yr warranty and are produced in the same factories and made with the same cheap components as PC's.

People like this are what makes the rest of us Mac users sound like idiots. The days of running your Mac for 5 years straight are gone because with the Intel switch comes lower quality parts so todays Macs are just as flaky as anything else in the market because there is no longer anything special about the hardware.

And that is what makes Macs overpriced. Regardless of what brand you buy, in 18-36months you WILL be replacing your system.
 
As far as the 8000$ are concerned, I guess VTOLfreak went to a euro-powered Online Apple Store. Apple has it's own currency exchange rate which is about 1EUR for 1USD. (Yeah, we europeans pay Apple hardware even more)
 
ITS ABOUT THE SOFTWARE STUPID!

Intel Hardware or not, Mac drivers go through more testing and compatibility because it is a proprietary system. Ironically leveraging technologies like 'OpenGL' vs DirectX (isn't that proprietary?).

This is why even OpenGL on a Mac Mini with hardly any 3D acceleration using a crappy GMA graphics chip appears to do its desktop magic as if it were a higher end NVidia system. The Mac holds its value because the software writers did a better job optimizing their code for the 'cheap' hardware. This is the same reason why so many PC users running Vista were burned when they found out that Vista 'aero' didn't fly on their old PC hardware that lacked 3D acceleration. Its because M$ bloatware relied on users having to purchase more hardware to accommodate their slacker software writers and line hardware manufacturer's pockets. It resulted in a class action lawsuit because of false advertising... does anybody remember this?!

Its not about the hardware, its about the software. This is what you are paying for when you pay for that Mac 'premium'. True 64 bit vs 32 bit. You will never see a a Windows XP box that can address more the 4gigs of memory unless its Server XP64 or Vista 64bit. But that'll just run your 'WinTel' 32bit software slower. So whats the advantage for Windows users? Its no wonder why so many PC users like myself are so touchy on this subject. Until Adobe starts cranking out killer apps that leverage the new 64bit Vista on PC hardware, everyone in the PC world will just have to hold their breath and be envious. Or try to justify how many dollars they've saved. You get what you pay for.

However, those of us that can afford a Mac get to run applications like Maya and Final Cut that outperform their PC equivalents. So the bottom line is that if you use computers to just play games ... get a PC. BUT if you want to get real work done faster (or play games now that BootCamp allows you to downgrade to XP) buy a Mac.

You can always build a 'faster PC' to run MS-DOS too if thats your bag, but if you want something more then 'cool' but actually functional, I'd say go with the Mac. This is coming from a latest DELL XPS user who writes software for both platforms. I now use my Mini to manage my personal data because it works without having to reboot every week (less 'malicious code updates').
 
[citation][nom]jcm279[/nom]I usually don't get involved in these sorts of discussions as a computer is a personal choice. I have been reading Tom's Hardware since its very beginning and I must say that this article is not only an embarrassment to the site, but the whole IT community at large. This is not because of the topic, which is a very sensitive one to most who read this site, but because of the poor writing, uninformed research, and clumsy comparisons used to draw clearly biased conclusions. I've always had the utmost respect for Tom's Hardware as a usually unbiased place to find well-tested hardware guides, but this site and this article's author should reconsider the sensationalist, crusading, "yellow journalism" of this article and how that reflects on Tom's Hardware's reputation. A content editor might be a welcomed addition to the writing staff of this site.[/citation]
 
What an incoherent mess. Two pages into this article and I still can't tell what point the guy is trying to make. It's like he tried to present both incompatible sides of an argument but had a gruesome transporter accident resulting in a screaming, dying blob of tissue.
 
Like Apple, there are PC manufacturers whose name jacks up the price. Seriously, how many average PC users know about the Envy? A more honest approach would've been to get the 3 top tier PC manufactuerers and 3 popular consumer based manufacturers, there's a difference there too.

Next on the list is software. I pay more in software on my Macs than I do on my Windows PCs, which further jacks up the price. Plus, iLife is free with a purchase of a Mac, but newer version have to be purchased. Criticize Windows' equivalents, but they come with the OS and do a satisfactory job for the average user.

Bottom line, this is just extra noise in the PC vs Mac debates.
 
I too went to the Dell & Gateway websites, & compared specs...The articles claims are valid. It's obvious that many people aren't interested in owning a Mac...That's all well and good, but why are you so driven to bash those that think it is a viable option for a PC? It sounds as though you are trying to burn the heretics for blasphemy to the church of Windows.
 
[citation][nom]tayker[/nom]L..Criticize Windows' equivalents, but they come with the OS and do a satisfactory job for the average user.[/citation]

Hmm, I don't think you can compare 'Windows Movie Maker' to iMovie or Garage Band and iCal to what? There are no Windows equivalents. Outlook Express doesn't have a calendar, you need to buy more Microsoft software to fill in the gap. This is true for Apple as well for their professional line of products. You will pay more Final Cut Pro because again, there is no PC equivalent. 32 bit Adobe Premier is nice, but you can't address more then 4 gigs of RAM with it. 64 bit OSX clearly wins that battle. I'm sure that will change once we start to see 64 bit apps on Vista, some day and the passionate (envious?) PC users like me will just have to wait.
 
[citation][nom]gamedoc[/nom]I too went to the Dell & Gateway websites, & compared specs...The articles claims are valid. It's obvious that many people aren't interested in owning a Mac...That's all well and good, but why are you so driven to bash those that think it is a viable option for a PC? It sounds as though you are trying to burn the heretics for blasphemy to the church of Windows.[/citation]
LoL! We all know which is the "cult" side! All hail the Mac! Zig hail Mac!
(lay off the koolaid dude!)
 
[citation][nom]T-Bone[/nom]LoL! And the best part of it all is next article on THG:Study Finds Macs Cost 2X Windows PCsWhy is it that to a Mac user, using his Mac is a religious experience while to your average PC user it's just a computer? A lot of these Mac people are like a cult or something; scary, really.[/citation]
 
Wow it's amazing to me to see the amount of brainwashed moronic points of views here and comparisons here. The real issue isn't comparing Apple (Reatail) to DIY (Do it yourself) PC's. If you are not a moron then you will know that DIY will ALWAYS COST LESS; no matter whether it's compared to Apple, Dell, Alienware or what have you. With the usual thinking that everyone uses to bash Apple you could say that Dell, Alienware, Falcon NW, and a host of others charge you a 'premium' for their products. This is the way retail works and has worked for many years. If you have a problem with it, then don't support ANY form of retail. Fact of the matter is I can buy ANYTHING in this world and 'do it myself' for cheaper than I can buy it ready made. This includes food, electronics, and a whole host of other things. While I do agree that Apples upgrades are RIDICULOUSLY priced and are definitely more overpriced than it's PC retail counterpoints. I also know that no one really buys retail upgrades anyhow. I'm not biased as I have been a Windows user and network engineer for greater than 12 years so I've seen A LOT the Windows DIY PC's have to offer. I've built MANY MANY DIY PC's and I know that I can get better parts for cheaper. The thing is this goes for any computer retailer PERIOD. If you people hate Apples pricing so much, your real gripe isn't with Apple at all; it's actual with retail vs DIY. So stop shouting at Apple and Apple customers and start shouting at capitalism and retail prices and large corporations making money off of their work. Also comparing retailers to mom and pop shop computer building stores isn't a fair comparison. There are a lot you just wouldn't get in terms of support and aesthetics. Interestingly enough I took the plunge and just felt like something different so built a Mac Pro with the following specs:

2x Quad Core XEON 2.8GHZ CPU's
14 GB PC-6400 FB ECC RAM (Yes that's 14 gigs of RAM)
2.4 TB Hard Drive Space (4x600)

All this for around 3500 as I didn't use Apple for the HD's or RAM. I actually compared my specs and speced out the EXACT SAME machine from Dell, HP, Gateway, and Alienware (I work for the Government so I called our sales rep directly and got the best prices they had to offer) and STILL wasn't able to beat the price that I built that machine for. I say all that to say this. If you want to make claims about building a computer for less but with better parts than Apple, then make sure you say the same about all other Retailers as the same is true. I purchased a machine from Apple and then went the DIY route with everything else and still came up cheaper than retailers (including Apple).
 
[citation][nom]eodeo[/nom]With that attitude, I think that I see a Mac smiling with your name on it When you used to use PCs? When was this in pre 486 era? Let me guess, you’re a happy Mac user now. You process words and listen to music all at the same time and to boot it - it all just works, doesn’t it?You lost me. Why would you use a Mac in the first place? To get what things done? Write words and listen to music? Is there one(1) objective reason you would want to pay 2x more $ for a useless custom, forced build by apple? I didn’t think so.[/citation]

With that attitude...Wow you're just completely lost in your argument, aren't you? You do realize that most people consider the computer a tool, not something they want to jack with 3 hours a day to get it to work. I admire your dedication, however.

When I used to use a PC..actually yes, I have used a 386 and had ones that I could call my very own from 486 all the way to last November- but great assumption otherwise.
 
Overall the article does a good job at dispelling the myth in question, but I don't think it asks the right question to really elucidate the situation.

The reason that Macs are considered more expensive than PCs is not so much because they over-charge for what they offer (except upgrades, which he notes at the end are a complete and utter rip-off), but that Apple simply doesn't offer what most people are in the market for: what Apple offers *is* more expensive than what people end up buying precisely because Apple is in the premium market.

It's as if Apple says to the computer buyer, "No, what you really want is *this*." (Case in point: upgrades.) To be fair, in some cases, that is legitimately what the consumer does (or should) want, and Apple marketing has certainly pushed the market in useful directions.

Notice also that the comparable products are a bit too comparable, that is, they are specifically constructed by the manufacturers to compete in the same feature and price space with the Apple products.

Comparing PCs with Macs on Apple's own turf (i.e., market space) is hardly a way to dispel the rumor that they're too expensive, since this is not likely to have been the source of such a rumor in the first place.
 
"I can buy the parts for cheaper" is a terrible rebuttal... Unless you add in your own labor costs. First of all, MOST people cant build their own computer. Wait let me rephrase that- MOST people cant build their own STABLE computer. So even if you got a computer build with "cheap parts" (which sounds like a terrible idea from a business standpoint... it makes me think of "E-Machines") -- you still end up with a computer that looks terrible. Worse yet, if you build a computer for a friend, you become the DEFACTO FREE LIFETIME SUPPORT person. Its a nightmare. Why do they keep comming to me for support? Do I look like an "Apple Genius" or someone from the "Best Buy Geek Squad?" Bah... Go by a Dell with support or an Apple and go to the Genius bar when you need help. MY POINT: Its not the price of the hardware you have to worry about. THE MOST MONEY WILL GO INTO YOUR TIME BUILDING, SUPPORTING, and DEALING WITH THE INCLUDED SOFTWARE.
 
[citation][nom]itpromike[/nom]Wow it's amazing to me to see the amount of brainwashed moronic points of views here and comparisons here. The real issue isn't comparing Apple (Reatail) to DIY (Do it yourself) PC's. ..[/citation]
You missed the point completely...but you're right, because what you said IS a moronic brainwashed POV. The problem with the article (and what 90% of complaints were about) is not that a Mac was compared to a DIY, it's that it was compared to an overpriced & overspeced PC. There are plenty of "plug'n'play" solutions from pc vendors (dell, gateway, toshiba, compaq, hp, lenovo, etc.) that make as-close-as-possible pc equivalents for less...much less. It's a known fact that Macs are overpriced when compared to pc equivalents. If it weren't true, you wouldn't need the 8 pages of drivel in the article and the 34+ pages of comments to answer the simple question: "Do Macs cost more?"
 
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