The dems say voter ID laws are unconstitutional ...

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Exactly, you can't vote unless you have an ID and you can't drink pop unless you are skinny.
 
Used properly, this ID could solve many a problem.
While it too could be abused, it doesnt amount to hiding your money under your mattress as opposed to putting it in the bank.
Are dems survivalists for inclusiveness?
 
"Raising the unsubstantiated specter of mass voter fraud suits a particular policy agenda. Voter fraud is most often invoked as a substantial problem in order to justify particular election policies. Chief among these is the proposal that individuals be required to show photo ID in order to vote - a policy that disenfranchises up to 10% of eligible citizens. But the only misconduct that photo ID addresses is the kind of voter fraud that happens as infrequently as death by lightning. Therefore, it suits those who prefer photo ID as a policy to lump as much misconduct in with “voter fraud” as possible, to create the impression that the problem is far more significant than it actually is. Moreover, to the extent photo ID is suggested as a solution to the perception that voter fraud occurs, it behooves those who prefer photo ID to reinforce the unsubstantiated perception that voter fraud exists.

Claims of voter fraud should be carefully tested before they become the basis for action. Researchers, reporters, public figures, and policymakers confronted with claims of potential fraud should carefully examine these claims before calling for action. Do the claims depend on matching information from one list to another? Is the matching process accurate? Does a match indicate an illegal vote, or is there a more plausible explanation? Is corroborating evidence available? If there actually appears to be a problem, can it be addressed by existing practices, or is a new solution necessary? If so, will the solution proposed - usually either a mass purge or photo identification - really solve the problem? Is the solution sufficiently burdensome that it becomes a greater problem than the problem itself? These basic questions are crucially important to evaluating claims of voter fraud, but are all too often unasked and unanswered."
 


Says the site called rotten acorn lol. But even then looking through the evidence given almost none of those would be "Fixed" with a voter ID.
Oh yeah and one thing we never hear from ACORN detractors is that they are legally required to turn in all applications.
 
Been good, living life, and walking the line...thanks for asking...life and work pulled me away for a while but have been poking around the Forums again when I got a moment or two...glad to see you still posting and promoting the conservative and rational point of view...keep your powder dry and safety on!

On topic...it's the epitome of Democrat/Progressive hypocrisy that can actively promote no need for ID or no proof of actual residency in order to vote (*cough* the Scott Walker recall *cough*) while at the same time requiring their constituency to show proof of ID to attend a convention that is open to the public.



 
If you're too lazy to get a government issued ID (I don't even know how people live without one as they are required for so many things..) then you're certainly too lazy to educate yourself about the candidates and will probably be casting a vote for whoever had the better smear campaign.. in which case.. I'd rather you not vote.
 
What?! Why the hate on young people and minorities? Are you saying that just because someone is a minority or under the age of emancipation that they are somehow unable to obtain a SS#, a Passport, a Civil Birth Certificate, Military ID, Pilot's License, Certified School transcripts, baptismal certificate, or a Non-Driver ID Card? All of which are legal forms of identification...


The implication that Republicans don't want young people or minorities to vote because they tend to vote Democrat is as ignorant or as race baiting as any statement I've read. I only hope you do not actually believe such tripe!

Sorry there but voter fraud is real, albeit difficult to prove, but attempts to cast fraudulent votes and submit fraudulent Voter Registration Cards have been proven; and as they say, where there is smoke there is fire.

Also, the assertion that the Republican push to impose voter ID laws as a means do disenfranchise the young and minorities is, as mentioned above, ignorant and political race baiting. Enforcing voting laws is something that all citizens, republican or democrat, of the United States who believe in the right to vote should be in favor of.

Let's face facts, when all a person needs to register to vote is a Birth Certificate and a utility bill less than 90 days old, there is NOTHING stopping anyone of legal voting age from voting...enuff said!
 
Get it through your mind the Republicans do not care about the middle class or the poor only there rich friends!.How del, Iraq wars which is a needless war and thousands of lives lost and billions spent.The Republicans talk a good game but do nothing about it.They sicken me!
 
Understand, those "republicans" are companies like GE, which is a prime supporter of Obama, and GE manages well during war.
As well as all the rich in Hollywood, which simply dont have a clue as to what this country needs, various billionaires and the like.
So, to make such a broad and sweeping statement doesnt cut it anymore, and is why Obama is running towards a class struggle scenario for his re-election.
The old myths that the republicans are rich is folly, as 28% identify themselves as repubs, whereas, only 1% are millionaires here, and many many of those follow the dems.
Now, creating a non foolproof law, which harms no one, and trust me, the repubs would love to have the young and others voting for them, shouldnt be that hard, and its simply the dems refusal to compromise, as,they fail in this regard to do so, thats holding this up, as they play their hatred card
 


The citizens of the US would benefit the most. This isn't about right/left, this is about fixing the voting issue.. which you have clearly stated benefits the Democratic party because it is broken.
 
You guys are so interested in fixing a problem that doesn't exist. Oldman is the only one to provide any kind of evidence voter fraud is going on. Just because it is a talking point doesn't mean its true.

Chunky I understand where you are coming from but the OP link explicitly states that the 10-11% of all Americans that don't have a photo ID are minorities and the elderly, you can look this up if you want. So you might say this isnt about race but those are the people most likely affected by the voter ID laws. If you don't need an ID to be a citizen you dont need an ID to vote its really as simple as that.

Im really into policy debate, I spent 4 years on the debate team, I mostly went solo therefore I was a master debater. But to win a debate you need to fulfill a few points.

- You haven't identified an issue, at least one not substantial enough to warrant forcing every single person over the age of 18 to get an ID. Wouldn't bar code tattoos be a bit easier?

- The proposed solution doesn't actually solve the problem. You can read up on some of the links provided. In most of the links that oldman gave it was fraud behind the curtains, the people counting the votes, or deciding who is eligible to vote, not your mom and pops lining up to vote. How would ID's have helped that?

- Its a huge government intrusion. Forcing your population to get ID's? Really? From libertarian types like yourselves... Im surprised, I also take it my taxes will be put towards this.... 400,000,000 million ID's are going to be a nightmare to handout.

- All of the documents you listed are very easily made, sometimes legally, like in one of the links oldman gave, it was more about identity theft then it was about voter fraud. How would an ID have fixed that, he had one?

So no problem, no solution, huge gov oversight, minority exclusion, and an easily gamed system. Who wins? Only the republicans because they have shrunk the eligible voting population by 10% a mostly democratic 10%.

And I agree getting an ID is a really good idea, and easy as hell, you should have no reason NOT to have one. You need one to fly, open a bank account, drive a car, really do anything in a society. But you shouldn't be forced to get one, and you especially shouldn't be punished for not having one.

 


George Bush was a Republican who gave broad tax cuts and effectively bankrupted the economy (trippled the nation's debt) and sent the US to war in Afganistan and Iraq over things that did not exist, consting the US taxpayer a few more zillion ... and lining the pockets of his mates in the arms business.

Furthermore he let Hurricane Katrina devastate two states and in order to save money, allowed those states to remain crippled and they still have not recovered ... since he gave them virtually no support and simply watched them rot.

He brought in the Patriot Act which allows your govt to basically throw democracy out the door when convenient.

He also lined his mates pockets with cash and generally told everyone he did a great job.

Top bloke ... I think most of us think he smells like an old whores crotch.
 


I want you to ammend that poster so you have "Aussie Americans".

We are starting to feel left out.

There are 22 million of us here in the 51st State !!

:)
 


I forget you guys are just too quiet.

You aren't starting any wars and you aren't oppressing your people enough. :sol:

 


You do know what ignorant means correct? I basically means ignoring something and ignoring what some people would stand to gain from this trivial argument is "ignorant".
 

rey, a few things to note.
Afhanistan was our war, no doubt, so it gets a pass, Iraq is another story and it depends on many things.
But, as to leaving 2 states on the brink, when the national guard tried to come in, as well as other helps, many were shot at.
To this day, the ones that stayed were the worst of the lot, and have pulled down the economy there, as theres plenty of work, but no bodies, and the good ones left, scattered thruout many states, and making it there.
This too is a complicated thing, and Bush got a bum rap by the media, as once again, the race card was used.
This just didnt effect people of color, nor just the poor, but if you listen to the media, thats all it did.
So, think back on what youd read or heard, and think of the realities of a storm, and how nature does what it does, to whom it does when it does, and size it all up.
This is an outrage for these kinds of attitudes, and again, be wary of the media, as they also said he hated latinos, yes, his own grandchildren, and these bigots, these race mongers, these racists love to use their wares
 
Come on JDJ, you have to admit that Bush handled Katrina poorly. Just because you don't agree with the racial sentiment imbedded within some of those in the media doesn't mean that he didn't botch it. You can't defend him by repeating extreme statements that were said about him. Defend him by what he did or did not do.

His response was slow and hesitant (he did not want the federal government to do what he thought local and state officials had covered, turns out they didn't and his hesitation in the matter was felt by the victims)

 
No comment on the Patriot Act JDJ? lol

Katrina was mishandled and we probably wont know for sure what happened until Bush and his cabinet all start coming out with their memoirs.

If only the American foreign policy was "They shot at us so we left".
 
No, they werent wanted there.
They were the man.
They were shot at.
The local cops fled.
The governor said everything was under control.
This wasnt botched as much as it was a huge disaster, and needed massive change, which is still being done today, and isnt finished yet, so it must be Obamas fault for not having it done by now.

If you know anything about Louisiana, and especially NO, youd know what Im saying here.
The only thing that knocked it off the top murder city in the country was Katrina, as an example.
Many locals would no longer go to Mardi Gras, because of the corruption there.
For the media, and what they wanted, he botched it, as to their actions, it was what could be done, seeing as the local infrastructure was collapsed, and that means the cops.
Marshall law should have been brought down, and everyone immediately accounted for, and stripped of weapons.
The national guard should have replaced the cops, as they fled, with Marshall law in place, the locals would have to behave.
They were raping and stabbing within the superdome, the one place people gathered.
All these things doesnt speak against the feds, Bush etc, it speaks very poorly of the locals there.
 
If people dont get this, they fail at the larger picture.
You cant help someone who wont help themselves. Period

This wasnt going to be fixed by the goverment, and the reason the good ones left knew this, because the corrupt and lazy, those who didnt leave, the ones with no brains, the ones who wouldnt lift a finger and still havnt, the ones who brought arms against our military, and if you want the patriot act, there ya go.
People sit back and say they could have done this or that, when we saw, yes we saw, people not even doing for themselves.
I can understand why many left, as they saw their neighbors taking advantage at this time.
I can understand why many left, when they needed help, and they were shunned.

 

Understand what Ive been saying.
The good ones left, that leaves a much larger % of bad people, and alot of sheep, put them together, what do you get?


Thousands of firearms were then confiscated from law-abiding gun owners. The police gave no paperwork or receipts for those guns. They just stormed in and seized them.

First of all, it was the police, and they of course went after the easy marks aka the law abiding.
Second of all, they have the right to reacquire their weapons, unless done in this fashion, which again, goes to what Ive been saying all along, NO is a rotten cesspool, and needs major change, not thru law, but from its people.
 
You are blind to the facts republicans want voter ID so they can reap the benefits of seniors and minorities from not voting and grab all the votes.People over 80 and above have no access to transportation and sometimes cannot afford to pay for the ID card.Same bullshit from the Republicans once again. Screw the poor and Middle Class.Eliminate the minorities.
 
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