The Future of FPS Games

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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Andrew wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:03:53 +0200, Werner Spahl
> <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
>
> >I explained in another posting that making Breen the administrator was a
> >spontanous decision of Newell which had nothing to do with the story. I
> >therefore think that Gman was indeed the administrator in HL1, after all
> >how else could he be able to move around so freely in all of Black Mesa.
>
> I think someone who can teleport himself and control time won't have
> too much trouble going anywhere he wants to.

I meant officially, as in speaking with the scientists and be seen around.
And again, how could someone with above abilities loose against Dr. Breen?

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships

 

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the one thing i'd really like to see done correctly or better is
realistic enviromental damage.. some games have destructible scency..
'Red Faction 2' springs to mind but i'd like to see all FPS do it..
e.g.. if i fire a rocket launcher in an enclosed space, such as a
narrow corridor, then i'd like to see the damage caused, the holes in
the walls that could possibly be used as an escape route.. also i'd
like to see the ability to destroy doors without the need of a key..
there's nothing more frustrating that blowing you way through a ton of
enemies only to be stopped dead in your tracks cause you forgot a
key!.. why can't we just blast the damn door open - sure it might
alert more enemies to your position but that the point of a FPS isn't
it?

toadie05

 

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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Chadwick wrote:

Brian Siano wrote:
> >
> > I don't recall Nihilanth 'clearly stating' anything. There was a lot
> > of moaning and reverb.
>
> Ditto. Could you clarify what Nihilanth is supposed to say?

Nihilanth moans a lot, but says two important sentences. You can listen to
the sound files if you are too busy when fighting him 😉. They sound like:

"Slaves, we are all slaves" and "You are man, he is not man."

The first, combined with the "slave" model name of the Xen alien attacking
with those green beams and one animation where they get kind of zapped by
their collar, implies that their whole race is enslaved. The second would
imply that Gman is not human, or at least, as I think, not working for the
humans. Therefore my theory of two powers behind both sides aka Babylon 5.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships

 

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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:38:10 -0400, Brian Siano
<siano@mail.med.upenn.edu> wrote:
>I think it depends on the mystery. One can have mysterious elements that
>just don't seem to fit, or are inexplicable, _because_ that mismatch
>creates a sense of dislocation, dread, mystery, or even humor. Max
>Ernst's _Une semaine de Bonte_ is a terrific example of this, and
>Patrick McGoohan's show _The Prisoner_ used this technique very well.
>And then there are those mind-boggling endings to _2001_, _The Quiet
>Earth_...
>
I would think that that facet of 'The Prisoner' was a result of the time
in which it was made. Several TV shows around that time had often
incomprehensible logic to them...particularly in the horror genre. I
still think that 'The Prisoner' is a tremendous piece of work though.

It seems that media nowadays shies away from such elements, 'The Bourne
Identity' for instance was a very good book, that should have made a
very good film, but they took out too much of the 'tracing his identity
through mysterious and inexplicable connections that make sense later
on' and turned it into an action movie, in my view.

Come to think of it the Bourne trilogy would make a very good game
series, if done right.

--
Alfie
<http://www.delphia.co.uk/>
I used to get high on life, but lately I've built up a resistance.

 

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Werner Spahl wrote:

> Nothing beats VTMB here. I know this game is buggy, as I did a unofficial
> patch to fix some stuff myself 😉, but why is this game so overlooked?

Because you are posting in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
^^^^^^

May be they are talking about Bloodlines in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg

Dennis

 

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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:14:14 GMT, toadie05@sbcglobal.net wrote:

>
>the one thing i'd really like to see done correctly or better is
>realistic enviromental damage.. some games have destructible scency..
>'Red Faction 2' springs to mind but i'd like to see all FPS do it..
>e.g.. if i fire a rocket launcher in an enclosed space, such as a
>narrow corridor, then i'd like to see the damage caused, the holes in
>the walls that could possibly be used as an escape route.. also i'd
>like to see the ability to destroy doors without the need of a key..
>there's nothing more frustrating that blowing you way through a ton of
>enemies only to be stopped dead in your tracks cause you forgot a
>key!.. why can't we just blast the damn door open - sure it might
>alert more enemies to your position but that the point of a FPS isn't
>it?

Actually, Red Faction (and Red Faction 2) doesn't really allow blasing
around critical portions - you still have to go through the route.

I know Red Faction 1 does this - I entered cheat mode, and placed satchel
charges to create a tunnel around an airlock. It was really a small room
with only one exit. After going "through" the airlock, the game worked as
if I never created the tunnel in the first place.

This sort of stuff isn't as great as you'd expect it to be - most
developers know that this sort of stuff will mess up game linearity and
will put up indestructable barricades.

 

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Werner Spahl wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Chadwick wrote:
>
> Brian Siano wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't recall Nihilanth 'clearly stating' anything. There was a lot
>>> of moaning and reverb.
>>
>> Ditto. Could you clarify what Nihilanth is supposed to say?
>
> Nihilanth moans a lot, but says two important sentences. You can
> listen to the sound files if you are too busy when fighting him 😉.

You can also open the .wad file and extract all the dialogue wavs, like I
did.

> They sound like:
>
> "Slaves, we are all slaves" and "You are man, he is not man."

"For you he waits, for you." "Truth, you will never know the truth."
"Deceive you, he will deceive you."
"Done, What have you done?" "The last, you are the last."

You can also listen to the conversation between G-Man and the chief
scientist in the locked room prior to the resonance cascade. It's hard to
make out, but the scientist is definitely telling G-Man that the experiment
is dangerous and should be called off, and G-Man appears to be arguing the
opposite and telling him to push ahead regardless. This conflicts strongly
with the claim made by G-Man in Half-Life 2 that he was against the
experiment from the beginning.

The sound files are:

Scientist (c1a0_sci_mumble.wav): I've told you a hundred times that I'm
opposed to pushing the equipment beyond (safety?) levels.
G-Man (gman_mumble1.wav): This is not your decision to make.
G-Man (gman_mumble2.wav): No, no, no no no.
G-Man (gman_mumble3.wav): I wanted to ask you...
G-Man (gman_mumble4.wav): If I had wanted that then I would certainly...

 

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Brian Siano wrote:
> Werner Spahl wrote:
>
> > In my opinion it was Gman who starts or at least risks the HL1
resonance
> > cascade to force Earth into conquering Xen, not the other way round
and
> > surely not some Breen guy who was not in existence at the time of
HL1.
> > After all if Gman was intending to stop the invasion, how could he
fail
> > with his ability to teleport freely while being invulnerable? Breen
would
> > have had no chance at all. And who would his employers be in the
theory
> > on that site? Those that he refers to so mystically at the end of
HL1?
> >
> > My HL1 theory was that behind Nihilanth/Xen and Gman/Earth were
some big
> > players like the Shadows and Vorlons in Babylon 5. Not some ugly
slugs!
>
> I'm not worrying too much about the story. Frankly, I figured that
> elements such as the G-man were thrown into the original game to
create
> a sense of mystery-- maybe they didn't really have much of a
background
> even _then_. And in the sequel, they either a) came up with more of a

> background story that fit the established elements, or b) came up
with
> more elements for mystery and effect. (My guess is A.)


Notwithstanding my attempt on this thread to make a coherent story, I
think the true reality is more like what Brian suggests.

HL1 was written as a one-off. Accident in a reseach facility = aliens
everywhere plus soldiers sent in to clear up. A mysterious
"administrator" figure keeps cropping up and we're given an open, "X
files" ending because, a) they thought it was going to be a good game
and there might be a sequel; b) it was cool and made a change from the
usual "the world is safe again, thanks to you" ending;
c) time was running out and they couldn't think of anything better.

As it turns out, a) was correct and it spawned a couple of add-ons in
the form of OpFor and BS. These were farmed out to Gearbox, who just
got on with making worthy games and didn't worry unduly about making
them fit with a story that didn't exist. Hence, we get new aliens,
weapons and soldiers in OpFor because that makes a fresh, new gaming
experience and sod the storyline. In BS, the budget was less, so they
reused the old stuff, but the aim was to make a game, not to write
another chapter of a story.

Come HL2, they decide they need a scenerio that features zombies,
headcrabs and soldiers, because that was what everybody liked about
HL1. Otherwise, they can do what theyw ant. They want it to be
different, else they wil be slated for being unoriginal, so the whole
Combine thing gets dreamed up. And it's easy to drop the G-man in again
because no-one really knows who he is or what he's doing, so they do
exactly the same as in HL1 - the G-Man appears at various intervals,
mysteriously being a part of the events, but you're never quite sure
what.

Then someone says "But wasn't Gordon either killed or left in space at
the end of HL1? How did he come to be alive for HL2?" To which the
answer was "Er... How about if the G-man just put him into stasis, and
then wakes him up again for HL2". "Brilliant" exclaim the design team,
"That way the G-Man is even more mysterious!" For good measure, they
use the G-Man at the end again to put Gordon back into stasis, thus
ensuring his availability for the inevitable HL3.

In short, the game was written first, and the story afterwards. They
probably made a few tweaks to the plot to help it link up with HL1, but
only if this didn't affect the game. In the same way, they were able to
put some background in (eg. the newspapers in Kleiner's lab).

But they have never been able to say who the Combine are - they were
invented for HL2 and are not mentioned in HL1 at all. Breen also neevr
appeared in HL1, but because we never met the Administrator, it's
plausible that's who he is (although why he is running the planet is
another matter).

 

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Raymond Martineau wrote:
> On 13 Apr 2005 02:37:33 -0700, "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> >My big problem with that guide is that so much of it is pure
> >conjecture. Particularly the changing role of the G-Man and the link
> >between the Combine and Xen.
>
> I've looked through the page, and haven't heard of any information
about
> the G-Man changing roles.

I mean that in HL1 he is almost an enemy and appears to be the
Administrator (there is nothing to contradict this internpretation adn
it is the most obvious one).
In HL2 he is a more of a friend (at least, he is more obviously working
with your allies and apparently against your enemies), and is
definitely NOT the Administrator


> The link between Combine and Xen is legitimate - the only holes in
that
> site are the same holes between HL1 and HL2, which involve trying to
tie up
> some loose ends and unnecessairy ambiguity.

The only link between Xen and the Combine is what you see in HL2 - the
Combine have apparently enslaved some Vortigaunts. They can also use
headcrabs in weapons, but not control them. We don't know whether they
found the Xena liens on Earth, or if they brought them over from Xen.
There is no evidence that the Combine had even been to Xen.

>
> >In HL1, the G-Man is a Government official who wants to hush up the
> >events at Black Mesa. Ultimately he blows the place up in OpFor to
> >destroy any evidence. He may be the Administrator, but this is not
> >clear in HL1 and is contradicted in HL2, so we must accept that he
> >isn't.
>
> Actually, the G-Man isn't a government official - if he was, he
wouldn't
> have access to the technological magic that he uses (teleportation,
> invulnerability device, and a few other tricks.)

Actually he is a "Government Man". That's what the G stands for. Black
Mesa was a government run operation, not a private facility and the
G-Man has some kind of control/responsibility etc. He's probably not a
politician, but one of those shadowy figures in the background, who
really control things - the stuff of conspiracy theories.


> >The Combine also do not exist in HL1. The enemy is the Xen aliens,
> >taking advantage of the now uncontrolled link to Earth. They are
> >introduced in HL2 and all we really know is:
>
> One thing you should note: some of the Xen aliens have metal devices
> attached to them in HL1. The vortigaunts with metal attachments can
be
> found in HL2 in two places: to the right of the initial starting
point, and
> in the Nova Prospekt prison camp.
>
> >
> >The "Saga" site above has one version of events. Here's mine:
> [...]
> >4 - The G-Man, desparate that the world does not get to hear of what
> >they are doing at Black Mesa, sends in troops to destroy all
evidence.
> >He also plants a nuclear bomb to destroy the facility.
>
> There's also the Race-X that needs to get factored into the story.
There's
> not much known about this race, although they appeared to come in
after the
> military did their escape but before Gordon entered Xen. The timing
of it
> indicates that it's more like a containment tactic to keep

Personally I think Gearbox just made a nice game with no regard to a
coherent storyline. They made new monsters and weapons to make it more
interesting (and therefore sell more).



> While the facility was destroyed, the G-Man makes a very causal
comment
> about Black Mesa taking care of itself. This implies that the G-Man
knew
> about the package but isn't claiming responsibility for it.

Of course he knows about the package - he resets it after you defuse
it.
The idea of blowing the place up fits with the idea of sending in
troops to destroy the evidence.


> >7 - The G-Man and Administrator of Black Mesa are two of the few
people
> >who understand the technology and concept of the portal and the
world's
> >leaders and the United Nations call them up to advise on their
defence
> >strategy.
>
> I doubt the G-Man is even part of the Government. If he was, he
wouldn't
> be able to represent whomever is giving offers from the faction that
he
> represents. Besides, if the government did have that level of tech
> available, they really would be able to handle the Combine without
too much
> problem.

As I said before, he was intended to be a shadowy Government figure.
He's familiar with the technology and is no doubt being paid a lot of
money by whichever government he works for. But the public would be
outraged if they knew what was going on a Black Mesa, so it all has to
be kept secret. Not disimilar to Area 51, Cold War spies or the various
"black ops" forces that various real-life countries are rumoured to
deploy. These are the people who killed Kennedy, Marilyn Munroe and
Princess Diana - if you're into conspiracy theories. The same ones who
faked the 1969 moon landings and who look after the Roswell flying
saucer.

 

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Werner Spahl wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, mr bernard langham wrote:
>
> > Werner Spahl wrote:
> > >
> > > Nihilanth moans a lot, but says two important sentences. You can
> > > listen to the sound files if you are too busy when fighting him
😉.
> > "For you he waits, for you." "Truth, you will never know the
truth."
> > "Deceive you, he will deceive you." "Done, What have you done?"
>
> The first sentence may hint to the ending in which Gman puts Gordon
in his
> service, the next three state in my opinion, that Gman is not working
for
> humanity and that Gordon doesn't know who he fought and what he
started.
>
> > "The last, you are the last."
>
> I'm not sure about this one. Maybe Gordon was the last to reach
Nihilanth
> before the Black Mesa portal closed, as other human bodies were
around.


I'm a cynic. I think they just made up some spooky sounding phrases.
Although, apparently in the original game design, the link between the
glowing crystals in Nihilanth's chamber and the sample that starts the
whole game was more obvious (they are the same material). So there must
have been more "plot" around the ending at some point. Maybe these
phrases are remnant of a lost plotline?


>
> > You can also listen to the conversation between G-Man and the chief
> > scientist in the locked room prior to the resonance cascade. It's
hard to
> > make out, but the scientist is definitely telling G-Man that the
experiment
> > is dangerous and should be called off, and G-Man appears to be
arguing the
> > opposite and telling him to push ahead regardless. This conflicts
strongly
> > with the claim made by G-Man in Half-Life 2 that he was against the
> > experiment from the beginning.
>
> I didn't know the exact conversation but I had the same feeling about
it.
>
> > Scientist (c1a0_sci_mumble.wav): I've told you a hundred times that
I'm
> > opposed to pushing the equipment beyond (safety?) levels.
> > G-Man (gman_mumble1.wav): This is not your decision to make.
>
> I also seem to remember a commentary of the same/another scientist
when
> you are in the test chamber, that the administrator forced them to
push
> the equipment to more than 100% which proved Gman = administrator to
me.

I agree. In HL1 you are given the impression that the G-Man is the
Administrator. Not that it matters to the game much - it's just a bit
of background, or "colour" to give the game a setting.

 

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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Dennis Schamne wrote:

> Werner Spahl wrote:
>
> > Nothing beats VTMB here. I know this game is buggy, as I did a unofficial
> > patch to fix some stuff myself 😉, but why is this game so overlooked?
>
> Because you are posting in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
> ^^^^^^
> May be they are talking about Bloodlines in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg

As other first person RPGs like the System Shock and Deus Ex games are
discussed here, I think this is also the right place for Bloodlines...

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships

 

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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Raymond Martineau wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:14:14 GMT, toadie05@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
> >key!.. why can't we just blast the damn door open - sure it might
> >alert more enemies to your position but that the point of a FPS isn't
>
> Actually, Red Faction (and Red Faction 2) doesn't really allow blasing
> around critical portions - you still have to go through the route.

While this may be through to allow some kind of storyline, I still agree
that in non critical places more damage to the environment should be
possible. This is similar to multiple paths, give them to me in nocritical
situations but please keep linear chokepoints to create a good story!

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships

 

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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Raymond Martineau wrote:

> The link between Combine and Xen is legitimate - the only holes in that
> site are the same holes between HL1 and HL2, which involve trying to tie

For me these holes between HL1 and HL2 should not have been in the first
place. Valve had time enough to write a consistent storyline for HL2...

> Actually, the G-Man isn't a government official - if he was, he wouldn't
> have access to the technological magic that he uses (teleportation,

Gman is a government official else he wouldn't be able to move about Black
Mesa so freely. This doesn't prevent him from getting some 'alien' help.

> One thing you should note: some of the Xen aliens have metal devices
> attached to them in HL1. The vortigaunts with metal attachments can be
> found in HL2 in two places: to the right of the initial starting point, and
> in the Nova Prospekt prison camp.

You're not completely right. While the sentinent Xen aliens had metal
devices in HL1, as I stated here already, those in HL2 don't have these
attached anymore. Another reason for me to believe, that these devices
were used to enslave them and now they are free, they don't need them.

> There's also the Race-X that needs to get factored into the story. There's
> not much known about this race, although they appeared to come in after the

I suspect that Gearbox while making Opposing Force just didn't know about
the Xen enslavement, so they created Xen aliens without these devices.

> I doubt the G-Man is even part of the Government. If he was, he
> wouldn't be able to represent whomever is giving offers from the faction
> that he represents. Besides, if the government did have that level of
> tech available, they really would be able to handle the Combine without

I think he officially works for the government but in reality for some
alien race which uses humanity to fight a war for them, as another race
uses the Xen aliens to do the same from the other side. As I mentioned
before, this reminds me of the Shadow/Vorlon conflict of Babylon 5...

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships

 

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On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, mr bernard langham wrote:

> Werner Spahl wrote:
> >
> > Nihilanth moans a lot, but says two important sentences. You can
> > listen to the sound files if you are too busy when fighting him 😉.
>
> You can also open the .wad file and extract all the dialogue wavs, like
> I did.

I listened to them right out of the wad file using the great QuArK editor.

> "For you he waits, for you." "Truth, you will never know the truth."
> "Deceive you, he will deceive you." "Done, What have you done?"

The first sentence may hint to the ending in which Gman puts Gordon in his
service, the next three state in my opinion, that Gman is not working for
humanity and that Gordon doesn't know who he fought and what he started.

> "The last, you are the last."

I'm not sure about this one. Maybe Gordon was the last to reach Nihilanth
before the Black Mesa portal closed, as other human bodies were around.

> You can also listen to the conversation between G-Man and the chief
> scientist in the locked room prior to the resonance cascade. It's hard to
> make out, but the scientist is definitely telling G-Man that the experiment
> is dangerous and should be called off, and G-Man appears to be arguing the
> opposite and telling him to push ahead regardless. This conflicts strongly
> with the claim made by G-Man in Half-Life 2 that he was against the
> experiment from the beginning.

I didn't know the exact conversation but I had the same feeling about it.

> Scientist (c1a0_sci_mumble.wav): I've told you a hundred times that I'm
> opposed to pushing the equipment beyond (safety?) levels.
> G-Man (gman_mumble1.wav): This is not your decision to make.

I also seem to remember a commentary of the same/another scientist when
you are in the test chamber, that the administrator forced them to push
the equipment to more than 100% which proved Gman = administrator to me.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships

 

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On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, Chadwick wrote:

> the form of OpFor and BS. These were farmed out to Gearbox, who just
> got on with making worthy games and didn't worry unduly about making
> them fit with a story that didn't exist. Hence, we get new aliens,

I agree to your opinion on Opposing Forces and Blue Shift.

> Come HL2, they decide they need a scenerio that features zombies,
> headcrabs and soldiers, because that was what everybody liked about
> HL1. Otherwise, they can do what they want. They want it to be

I agree with you here too, but to me, this was very disappointing.

> In short, the game was written first, and the story afterwards. They
> probably made a few tweaks to the plot to help it link up with HL1,

I agree, but as far as I know it was the other way round with HL1. I
think I remember that SF writer Marc Laidlaw wrote the story first.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships

 

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bk039@ncf.ca (Raymond Martineau) looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:14:14 GMT, toadie05@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
>>
>>the one thing i'd really like to see done correctly or better is
>>realistic enviromental damage.. some games have destructible scency..
>>'Red Faction 2' springs to mind but i'd like to see all FPS do it..
>>e.g.. if i fire a rocket launcher in an enclosed space, such as a
>>narrow corridor, then i'd like to see the damage caused, the holes in
>>the walls that could possibly be used as an escape route.. also i'd
>>like to see the ability to destroy doors without the need of a key..
>>there's nothing more frustrating that blowing you way through a ton of
>>enemies only to be stopped dead in your tracks cause you forgot a
>>key!.. why can't we just blast the damn door open - sure it might
>>alert more enemies to your position but that the point of a FPS isn't
>>it?
>
>Actually, Red Faction (and Red Faction 2) doesn't really allow blasing
>around critical portions - you still have to go through the route.
>
>I know Red Faction 1 does this - I entered cheat mode, and placed satchel
>charges to create a tunnel around an airlock. It was really a small room
>with only one exit. After going "through" the airlock, the game worked as
>if I never created the tunnel in the first place.
>
>This sort of stuff isn't as great as you'd expect it to be - most
>developers know that this sort of stuff will mess up game linearity and
>will put up indestructable barricades.

But even that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

After all there are going to be things you can't hurt at all with the
weapons you can carry around.

Red Faction is still one of my favorite games because of the
destructible terrain and the "extra" freedom it gives you in some areas.

Of course it makes the choke points more noticeable and annoying -
IE getting gassed while in an environment suit,
having to remove the suit and most weapons to go after that admin guy in
the secret research facility - which takes ALL weapons and ammo, then
gives you a "silenced weapon" that's identical to your original pistol,
but with very limited ammo. I almost always got to that point with
the full 125 round max of pistol ammo, then lose almost all of it - very
annoying. I had the pistol in silenced mode right from the start.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

 

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Chadwick wrote:

> Notwithstanding my attempt on this thread to make a coherent story, I
> think the true reality is more like what Brian suggests.
>
> HL1 was written as a one-off. Accident in a reseach facility = aliens
> everywhere plus soldiers sent in to clear up. A mysterious
> "administrator" figure keeps cropping up and we're given an open, "X
> files" ending because, a) they thought it was going to be a good game
> and there might be a sequel; b) it was cool and made a change from the
> usual "the world is safe again, thanks to you" ending;
> c) time was running out and they couldn't think of anything better.

I think they did have some idea that a sequel would be done,
eventually-- a lot of games have sequels. But we don't have much of an
idea of how much planning and backstory they'd concocted-- let alone how
much of it changed as they went along.

> In short, the game was written first, and the story afterwards. They
> probably made a few tweaks to the plot to help it link up with HL1, but
> only if this didn't affect the game. In the same way, they were able to
> put some background in (eg. the newspapers in Kleiner's lab).

I dunno; I think that the first game's spare story was due as much to
the limits of the game engine as anything else. Whatever story ideas
they _had_, they probably couldn't do a lot of them.

But I think the second story had to have been developed out of the
first-- if only because they had elements that were in the first game,
and they had to work out consequences from the Black Mesa incident...
and they had to have a setting that was compelling, different from the
first in certain ways, and as good as the first in others.

Generally, though, I'm not going to worry too much about the story.
After all, the game offers only one path, so it's not as though I have
to pay attention to the details to make much headway.

 

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Ian Galbraith <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:27:20 -0700, "Doug" <pigdos@nospamcharter.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Werner is dead right on this one. The reason the buggy and airboat are
>>basically indestructible is because the linear gameplay and fixed plot
>>demand they never be destroyed. Ditto for Barney and Alyx on certain levels,
>>they're basically indestructible as well. The original Half Life didn't seem
>>as linear although it probably was.
>
>I never finished HL1, finishing HL2 inspired me to finally finish it
>and yes it is just as linear IMHO, plus the much vaunted story of HL1
>is just as slight as in HL2. HL2 doesn't have the claustrophobic maze
>like structure of the early HL levels which is a big plus.

HL1 didn't have story. It had mood and setting.

 

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Werner Spahl <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in
news😛ine.LNX.4.58.0504141005410.20756@cicum1.cup.uni-muenchen.de:

> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Raymond Martineau wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:14:14 GMT, toadie05@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>
>> >key!.. why can't we just blast the damn door open - sure it might
>> >alert more enemies to your position but that the point of a FPS
>> >isn't
>>
>> Actually, Red Faction (and Red Faction 2) doesn't really allow
>> blasing around critical portions - you still have to go through the
>> route.
>
> While this may be through to allow some kind of storyline, I still
> agree that in non critical places more damage to the environment
> should be possible. This is similar to multiple paths, give them to me
> in nocritical situations but please keep linear chokepoints to create
> a good story!
>

To me a game isn't fun unless you can bake bread in it.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com
Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.

 

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"knight37" wrote:

> To me a game isn't fun unless you can bake bread in it.

I've witnessed undercooled mods that one can bake bread in. I think one guy
said his PC also functioned as a convectional oven. Used it for making small
pizzas and roasts.

Anyway, I've got the perfect game for you!

You can bake a cake in Nancy Drew's "The Secret of Shadow Ranch". It ain't
easy. Mine blew up.

In "White Trash Barbie-The Game", if you win the Barbie Double-wide Dream
Trailer with the Tornado Action Add-on Playset (but only after beating the
Dream Trailer level), you can stick Ken's head in the oven after you get him
to say, ""Git me anuther beer, baybee."

Ken is a NPC, by the way. The developers wisely inserted more of Barbie's
playmates rather than have her interact with Ken. Especially after he was
fricasseed.

But Barbie also make cakes in her oven - with pink icing.

I firmly believe that baking cakes and breads that explode with force of a
2-megaton warhead IS the future of FPS.

Mark