Question The most complex and illusive PC/Hardware issue I have ever encountered. Mouse/Keyboard input lag related

CrucialNUGS

Distinguished
Nov 24, 2011
28
3
18,535
0
This problem has been the most difficult to diagnose issue I have ever seen or heard of on a PC. Thought I might get some insight (hopeful) as no one that has the issue has been able to find a real solution as of yet. I anticipate many people will doubt my experiences and the symptoms I have observed. I would doubt someone saying the same things that I am if my PC functioned properly however I have seen what Ive seen and know it is real. For those that are willing to believe what me and others have said on this subject- thank you.

Symptoms:

Input lag across the board in both games and windows, both mouse and keyboard inputs are inconsistent and change over time. At times the dpi increments on my mouse hardly change the sensitivity, other times it adjusts a ton. The monitor display suffers hitches, and micro stutters, of the same varying consistency. Makes game play at 140fps and below look and feel like 60 or lower. Internet webpages load in slowly (blocks of the page load in at a time), you tube videos and twitch buffer at random times with no packet loss. At times the lag is minimal at times its unbearable. The input lag and video hitches seem entirely inconsistent however I have found that nearly any hardware state change/software change can affect it to varying degrees. Everyday, even every hour my mouse feels and tracks differently. Now the really interesting stuff: Practically any hardware/software setting or change I can make to my system will alter the behavior of the mouse/keyboard inputs. Keyboard input is possibly the easiest way to tell as I can change different settings and holding down keys in windows search bar spits the characters out at different speeds. I have posted around many forums and seen many others with the same issue being told its placebo however this is simply not the case. I know a properly functioning PC should not behave this way but my system and others do.

Things I have tried:

Current PC Specs:

CPU: Intel i5 8600k
Motherboard: Asrock Taichi z370
Ram: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3000MHz C15
SSD/HDD: Intel SSD 760P 512GB M2 SSD
GPU: EVGA GTX 1660 TI 6GB
PSU: EVGA Supernova 750 G3
Chassis: Phantek Entho Evolv Tempered Glass
OS: Windows 10 Professional 64bit Build 1803

3 different PC's (completely different specs) 3 different monitors (120hz, 144hz, 240hz) 5 different mice (Logitech G-Pro x2 models , Razer Deathadder x3 models) 3 different mousepads 3 different keyboards Using different circuits and configurations around the house. (some work better than others, however input lag is still present) Different power strips, power conditioners Tested for outlet grounding with 3 pronged tester.

Things that change the mouse/keyboard behavior and monitors display quality:

Moving the monitor/router/modems/pcs power cord to different outlets, different power strips etc. Note: My Wi-Fi does not even work if my router/modem are on the same outlet/power strip- the signal shows up but no connection. Changing which USB ports the keyboard/mice are plugged into. Applying tinfoil to any power cord, or mice/keyboard USB cables. Applying Ferrite (can mitigate electrical interference) beads to any of the above cords. Changing nearly any BIOS/Windows 10 settings. Adjusting GPU fan/power settings. Adjusting nearly any settings in NVIDIA control panel change the mouse behavior. Applying overclocks, disabling all OCs/turbo/speedstep. Adjusting/propping up the GPU (seems like the positioning changes mouse behavior heavily). Changing case fan profiles- usually lowering fan speed/power is better. Monitor settings (brightness, color, resolution). Placing phone onto the PC case (doubles mouse sensitivity immediately). Changing where the router/modem is or moving the power cords. Separating all cables from each other.

Now the confusing part. All of these problems happens along with some very peculiar wifi issues in the home. To summarize the way in which my router/modem are plugged in (different powerstrips, plug orientation) affect the quality and behaivor of my wifi. Because of this I decided to explore the possibility of my ethernet cable being the source or my PC problems as well. I contacted the ISP to send a guy out- they did and he got a reading on the cable drop for large voltage spikes. He said that the coaxial cable had voltage leeching onto it using the ISP ground block as a path of least resistance. Told me to contact the power company as it was on their end. Well I readup on some similar issues on cable forums and contacted an electrician about a possible loose neutral in the home just to verify it was not from in home faulty wiring, or a television backfeeding voltage or something. He told me the house was good to go and said that the issue was definitely power company. Well I called the power company and they sent out a tech while I was at work and supposedly they fixxed somthing, but the wifi still behaves erratically and of course my PC still suffers this issue. So I took a measurement of the coax cable and found there is still fluctuating voltage on the shielding (measured shielding to ground). Well I am in contact with the power company to hear the official report of what the tech even did here. I did however in the meantime head to a rental our family owns and tested the PC there. Booted up my PC and although my inputs seemed slightly better I could tell they were still messed up. Then I started testing the things Ive tried before- ferrite beads on cables, changing around the power configuration (moving outlet for monitor etc) and any BIOS changes and found that my mouse behaivor is still changing.

Before all of this I thought it has to be something with my houses wiring (floating neutral/ground) or a ground loop being created somewhere, raising the noise floor in the system which in turns causes data loss. However now I am just considering that my PC was damaged in some way that produces these results. Since testing at the 2nd house I have swapped out GPU, RAM, and SSD and my rig functions the exact same. I am not sure if this is a combination of hardware/software bugs or what. If my rig was truly damaged I would think that I would see much more serious affects. All I know is my PC is not functioning properly. There are many others out there with nearly the exact same symptoms (on completely different systems, in completely different parts of the world) but none of them have found a proper solution, just more things that change the behaivor for a time. The input lag always comes back and mouse/keyboard behavior is totally inconsistent. At times it operates nearly perfectly but not for long. Now I have posted my own threads plenty enough as well as read many on this very issue. People tend to say this is placebo, or we are insane to think its possible for all this to be happening. Well I cannot convince you beyond saying that I am fully aware how crazy of an issue it would have to be to transcend entirely different PCs or houses, however the truth is I and others have observed this very behaivor beyond doubt. Many of us questioned ourselves, but when you find that you can actually change the inputs behaivor yourself by doing certain things software/hardware side, you realize how very real it is. Anyway thanks for your time and if you have any doubts that there are others out there with this I recommend you read some of the linked threads below.

Some other threads/docs relating to the issue:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...em-bounty.html

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-in...lag-mouse.html

https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...-response.html



https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...ter-while.html


https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-in...-hardware.html - Note: R0ach is seen as a bit of a meme on OC.net because of his hypochondriac ways regarding his BIOS and PC optimizations. I have concluded however that he is experiencing the same issue as the rest of us and just believes it to be normal behaivor when in reality his PC is just like ours, displaying completely inconsistent inputs.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...problem-5.html

https://community.amd.com/thread/235028




http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/show...ssues-in-House
 
Reactions: MrVIT

CrucialNUGS

Distinguished
Nov 24, 2011
28
3
18,535
0
Maybe too much emf in your home? Salt lamps apparently help reduce emf 😊

Links are either repeats from you, broken, locked or unrelated. None are helpful sorry.
None of the links are my posts... They also all work so not sure what you mean. All related to people experiencing the exact symptoms if you actually read through the threads. Yes a few are locked, in particular the Nvidia thread with over 350 pages relating solely to this very issue.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

boju

Champion
None of the links are my posts... They also all work so not sure what you mean. All related to people experiencing the exact symptoms if you actually read through the threads. Yes a few are locked, in particular the Nvidia thread with over 350 pages relating solely to this very issue.
There are some hints of some threads of input lag but related to your issue specifically, i doubt it. As some there are suggesting in your thread at Overclock, perhaps it's the fluorescent light bulb.

Here's a run down of your links, this is what i get from them.

Some other threads/docs relating to the issue:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...em-bounty.html Your thread up the top

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-in...lag-mouse.html Nothing related here

https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...-response.html Your thread up the top

https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffen...ouse_movement/ Page doesn't exist

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/co...lag_and_other/ Not found

https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...ter-while.html Your thread up the top

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/co...onsistent_and/ Not found

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-in...-hardware.html - Nothing related here Note: R0ach is seen as a bit of a meme on OC.net because of his hypochondriac ways regarding his BIOS and PC optimizations. I have concluded however that he is experiencing the same issue as the rest of us and just believes it to be normal behaivor when in reality his PC is just like ours, displaying completely inconsistent inputs.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...problem-5.html Nothing related here

https://community.amd.com/thread/235028 Not really related to your issue

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/discover/ Nothing related here

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce...ges-input-lag/ Page doesn't exist

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...r_NfEdAnjTAII/edit Page doesn't exist

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/show...ssues-in-House Page not found
 
Adjusting/propping up the GPU (seems like the positioning changes mouse behavior heavily).
Please explain this, because you're making it sound like the Pci Ex slot is loose due to the weight of the GPU, and I know for a fact your MB has steel reinforced slots, so that makes no sense.

I used to use a make shift gizmo (modified pencil) to prop up my GPU when I had non reinforced slots, but since buying a Z370 MB with the new slot style and a GPU with full backplate, there's no sag or need for propping.

Loose slots can indeed be a problem, and it's something that can occur even during shipping if a build house (or person moving) doesn't prevent it with proper packing, but it was mostly only a thing with the old non reinforced slots.

That said, the one thing that could be related to this you didn't mention replacing or swapping with a spare or a friend's, the MB.
 

CrucialNUGS

Distinguished
Nov 24, 2011
28
3
18,535
0
There are some hints of some threads of input lag but related to your issue specifically, i doubt it. As some there are suggesting in your thread at Overclock, perhaps it's the fluorescent light bulb.

Here's a run down of your links, this is what i get from them.

It appears that the links work if you copy paste them into URL. Not sure why that is. You keep saying nothing related here yet fail to realize that the posts in question detail exact same behaivor as what I have stated in my OP. All the changes they talk about are things that noticably affect the state of my inputs as well.
 

CrucialNUGS

Distinguished
Nov 24, 2011
28
3
18,535
0
These links should work properly now.


https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1642304-unsolved-mouse-problem-bounty.html

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-intel-motherboards/1562798-new-pc-floaty-input-lag-mouse.html

https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1447836-nvidia-input-lag-mouse-response.html

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/b190p3/csgo_feeling_off_stutteryjittery_mouse_movement/


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/bafhfe/update_after_years_of_mouse_input_lag_and_other/



https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1671865-mouse-incosistent-floaty-loosing-speed-after-while.html

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/5kdwoq/mouse_movement_is_delayedweirdinconsistent_and/


https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-intel-motherboards/1433882-gaming-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-modern-pc-hardware.html - Note: R0ach is seen as a bit of a meme on OC.net because of his hypochondriac ways regarding his BIOS and PC optimizations. I have concluded however that he is experiencing the same issue as the rest of us and just believes it to be normal behaivor when in reality his PC is just like ours, displaying completely inconsistent inputs.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1524063-after-years-troubleshooting-i-have-just-found-what-causes-my-mouse-lag-general-input-lag-problem-5.html

https://community.amd.com/thread/235028

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/950944/pc-components/mouse-input-lag-is-killing-me/309/

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/gaming-rigs/8/305605/random-mouse-sensitivity-changes-input-lag/

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ihak2mMEogNm3IkoJxizY1YN7vXjuNr_NfEdAnjTAII/

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?16546-Major-input-lag-caused-by-Power-issues-in-House
 

boju

Champion
Thanks, those links work now and forwarded to the correct posts instead of thread listings.

Input lag issues are vast and reasons for, could be anything. I suppose, for a bizarre issue like this, easy to over complicate things.

Have you checked cpu idle temps and under load? A throttling cpu due to heat can cause all sorts of problems.
 

CrucialNUGS

Distinguished
Nov 24, 2011
28
3
18,535
0
Thanks for putting the time in to assist. I know input lag reasons are vast but in each and every one of those threads there are multiple things that matchup with my exact experiences. All my temps are in proper ranges, under load and at idle. I am in contact with multiple people experiencing and identical issue to mine and we have all tried at least 2 PCs (entirely) different specs with the exact behaivor playing out on both.
 

boju

Champion
I hear you. How long have you had this issue?

What could be consistent across all systems i wonder. Could it be Windows and updates? Perhaps try Ubuntu and see if you get input lag.

The keyboard/mouse devices you've tried, are they all wireless?
 

CrucialNUGS

Distinguished
Nov 24, 2011
28
3
18,535
0
I built a new PC about 2 years ago as I initially thought the issues were because of my parts. So a little longer than 2 years is when I noticed it. Of note is at that apartment I tested my roomates desktop PC as well and his displayed the exact same symptoms, he noticed the same things. He was on windows 8 I was on windows 7. Now on my new rigs I am on windows 10, so OS cannot be the cause. I have tried to examine what is consistent across all the systems but the only single thing I can possibly think of is ISP is the same as all the houses (3) are within 30minutes drive from eachother. I really have tried 2x PCs (roomates PC is the 3rd ive seen with same issues) tested all different peripherals multiple times- monitor, mice, mousepads, replaced all cabling (ethernets, routers, modems, coaxial cables) keyboards etc.
 

boju

Champion
What's confusing is isp/network and input lag are completely different.

Input lag as you know is a delay between physical input and screen, ie mouse isn't exactly synced to your actual moving of it, like playing on a TV with all visual processing turned on increasing signal latency.

Network lag, slow internet or packet loss causing high ping can also make multiplayer games feel delayed but is of a different nature. Such as delayed firing of a weapon, warping players and mini pauses.

Input lag and internet lag don't go together.
 

CrucialNUGS

Distinguished
Nov 24, 2011
28
3
18,535
0
What's confusing is isp/network and input lag are completely different.

Input lag as you know is a delay between physical input and screen, ie mouse isn't exactly synced to your actual moving of it, like playing on a TV with all visual processing turned on increasing signal latency.

Network lag, slow internet or packet loss causing high ping can also make multiplayer games feel delayed but is of a different nature. Such as delayed firing of a weapon, warping players and mini pauses.

Input lag and internet lag don't go together.

Yup I am fully aware of that. My theory is that there is some electrical interference getting to my parts. If you read my post the ISP guy found voltage spikes on my coaxial ISP drop. So thats what im thinking but Ive tried wifi and input lag is still affected by everything so im abit at a loss with the line of thinking.
 

boju

Champion
Yeah i read that about the electrician. Don't know how any of that could cause input lag and since you've tested at different locations it has to be something else.

Possibly wifi band, 2.4g/5g? The wifi adapter or driver, but you've tried a network cable haven't you and still the same problem. Maybe a continued use of a program is unknowingly causing problems.

Do you get these symptoms in safemode?
 

CrucialNUGS

Distinguished
Nov 24, 2011
28
3
18,535
0
Yeah i read that about the electrician. Don't know how any of that could cause input lag and since you've tested at different locations it has to be something else.

Possibly wifi band, 2.4g/5g? The wifi adapter or driver, but you've tried a network cable haven't you and still the same problem. Maybe a continued use of a program is unknowingly causing problems.

Do you get these symptoms in safemode?
Havent tested in safe mode will do. Ive tested many many different cables, and as far as programs I have tried the most barebones windows install I can think of.
 

Nemesia

Great
Nov 6, 2019
152
24
95
3
Your CPU has a UHD Graphics 630 integrated in it. Try plugging your monitor to your motherboard and try again. We will see if this is a GPU problem. I didn't see you say that you tried that in your post. Sorry if you did. It was a long thing to read ;)
 

CrucialNUGS

Distinguished
Nov 24, 2011
28
3
18,535
0
I have tried PS/2 and USB, multiple mechanical keyboards and mice. I have tested with integrated GPU on my 8600k as well as testing two GPUs in my current rig, MSI 1060 Gaming X 6GB and an EVGA 1660 TI.
 

CrucialNUGS

Distinguished
Nov 24, 2011
28
3
18,535
0
Oh just saw you tried ps2 already.. there goes that idea lol
Yup tried it all I appreciate you following both threads and trying to assist me. This is probably an issue I wont be able to get any help from forum posts on as anyone knowledgeable enough to have a clue at whats going on probably wont see these unfortunately. If I could get ahold of a computer engineer worth their salt I would legit ship my entire PC to them just so they can diagnose this.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS