I think the new column article had a good point about the fact that the consumor loses in either case when it comes to the new p4 chip and the athlon 64. Kind of cements my feelings of ill wait till the next gen chips because the upcoming ones are nothing new (ee and athlon64)
Usual innovation goes in cycli. First some technology is invented, then this new technology is optimized. Then another new technology is invented, etc,etc. The P4 was a new technology, whereas P4@1.5GHz is an optimization of P4@1.3GHz.
The P4 was actually a disappointment when first released, since it was compared with the P3 which was nearing the end of its optimization cycle. The importance of the P4 was therefore the potential of this new technology. The same goes for the next generation.
The P4 was actually a disappointment when first released, since it was compared with the P3 which was nearing the end of its optimization cycle. The importance of the P4 was therefore the potential of this new technology. The same goes for the next generation.
i agree with you completely but i think the circumstances are very different this time. Instead of the p3->p4 or athlon -> xp where it was on the same platform we now are possibly buying a chip based on a new platform that barely exists, 64 bit desktop computing for average users. Yes its nice new technology but I have to question the feasibility at this time and also the cost to consumers. Consumers are going to have to wait a long time for a viable and stable windows platform and programs that will work with it. Not only that theres a possible issue of compatibility and are manufacturers gonna care about 64 bit drivers. I can see manufacturers saying that they dont support 64 bit or delay the drivers. this is just what i see and why i have a hard time accepting the new athlon 64
is it wrong that AMD for the first time overtakes intel and is crowned the king in the cpu market? do you have any idea how much does a p4 @3.2 Ghz costs. and if you ask me "would you pay 500$ for an athlon 64" i would say yes i will, i am already paying 400 $ for the p4 3.2 Ghz and besides that with 64 i get a new kind of cpu.
I think this new article is nonsenses.
welcome the new era of cpu's, Athlon 64!
I think this new article is nonsenses.
welcome the new era of cpu's, Athlon 64!
Only time will tell.
Surely there were lots of new technologies which never delivered. But I can still remember people saying the 386 was just a fast 286 and the 32-bit would never be used. They were right in some respect: it took a decade for 32-bit to become mainstream.
Surely there were lots of new technologies which never delivered. But I can still remember people saying the 386 was just a fast 286 and the 32-bit would never be used. They were right in some respect: it took a decade for 32-bit to become mainstream.
traviss187
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but then you have to consider the prescott in this not just the p4 EE, that introduces the possibilty of 64bit in an intel cpu, which has the potential to outpreform the athlon 64(not to say I think it will but it is deffinatly somehting that has to be recognized)where the 3.2ghz prescott is under $500 (if I remember correctly)
I don't see how the athlon 64 is a "new era" compared to the prescott
I don't see how the athlon 64 is a "new era" compared to the prescott
eden
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There is so much nonsense in your post that I would love to just tell you, in honor of Matisaro, Run Along!
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spud
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Haha era hes funny!!! 64bit has been around for a damned long time. Its nothing new or relatively exciteing at this point since there really isnt anything new either.
-Jeremy
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-Jeremy
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eden
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I was about to make a thread about the article. This is why I respect Omid, he definitely knows what's going on. I love his rants, well laid, well said, well conveyed.
With either the P4 EE and A64, we are simply thought of as marketting drones. It will be even more disappointing if the P4 EE does not come unlocked.
Long gone are the days where hundreds of dollars would get you significantly more performance. While the A64 gains a sizeable performance boost, you have to think in the context, which means it gains it while having been UNDER the P4 3.2GHZ's performance. That reduces the greater lead it would have gotten had the XP3200+ been actually a real CPU than a POS PR attempt.
What is even more true is Omid's observation on how lately people get crazy over marchitecture. And even more true, is how LAN parties seem to contain more AMD cronies than actual aware users who buy either manufacturer's CPUs depending on their true needs and not their spite at one company, which in this case is often Intel. Truth be told I never liked the supposed geek attitude most big LAN party users adopt. Then again that's just me.
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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:
With either the P4 EE and A64, we are simply thought of as marketting drones. It will be even more disappointing if the P4 EE does not come unlocked.
Long gone are the days where hundreds of dollars would get you significantly more performance. While the A64 gains a sizeable performance boost, you have to think in the context, which means it gains it while having been UNDER the P4 3.2GHZ's performance. That reduces the greater lead it would have gotten had the XP3200+ been actually a real CPU than a POS PR attempt.
What is even more true is Omid's observation on how lately people get crazy over marchitecture. And even more true, is how LAN parties seem to contain more AMD cronies than actual aware users who buy either manufacturer's CPUs depending on their true needs and not their spite at one company, which in this case is often Intel. Truth be told I never liked the supposed geek attitude most big LAN party users adopt. Then again that's just me.
--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:
slvr_phoenix
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The column sucked, as usual for Omid. Sometimes he's got a good point. And sometimes I think he rambles just to hear (see) his own words.
New stuff costs insanely more. It always has and it always will. Intel's new P4 EE runs existing 32-bit code well. AMD's new A64 runs existing 32-bit code well. If these were just new top-end speed grades of the same old same old at the exact same prices would there even be a rant? No.
It's all just marketing games and Omid is letting them get to him. There's nothing more to it.
<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
New stuff costs insanely more. It always has and it always will. Intel's new P4 EE runs existing 32-bit code well. AMD's new A64 runs existing 32-bit code well. If these were just new top-end speed grades of the same old same old at the exact same prices would there even be a rant? No.
It's all just marketing games and Omid is letting them get to him. There's nothing more to it.
<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
eden
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Most will try to relate SSE2 adoption to the 64-bit one in an attempt to prove 64-bit will go smoothly in, but the difference is SSE2 is specific and not all programs need it. In fact there probably are not any more than 100 programs using it seriously. 64-bit OTOH will ask for ALL PROGRAMS to be converted for a real 64-bit environment in the future. That is a challenge, a bit like the 16-bit to 32-bit conversion, except that the evolution of software memory usage and integer usage is easily and in fact exponentially more requiring in 16-bit to 32-bit compared to 32-bit to 64-bit!
People think it's a 2x ration so each time you go further, it will be the same period of time. Wait till some company announces x86-128, and they'll all go nuts buying it: The future is here!
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People think it's a 2x ration so each time you go further, it will be the same period of time. Wait till some company announces x86-128, and they'll all go nuts buying it: The future is here!
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spud
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New stuff this shits been around for almost 3 years not our damned fault they cant get it to work. AMD wants to walk the walk they need to shut their [-peep-] mouth cause they cant talk the talk with PR anymore.
-Jeremy
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7013108" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up!!!</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1311896" target="_new">Busting More Sh@t Up!!!</A>
-Jeremy
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eden
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It's a rant nonetheless, a rant that looks at the recent different things that occur. It's not the performance boost that is the issue, it's the observation of the attitude of each company that creates rants like these. Personally I think you did not see through it all Slvr. I admit Omid seems to whine a bit each time, complaining about enthusiasts not being the same. But, his point remains, the fake ones drool over anything the two companies get out, and go buy it despite the high price.
Which once again to me sounds like you really did not put your mind into his rant and saw his POV.
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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:
Which once again to me sounds like you really did not put your mind into his rant and saw his POV.
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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:
eden
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I'm also at my class lab. 
Surely you have noticed that he used a lot of FUD and irrealistic claims in his post? Hell the very first one is a misinformed statement!
I won't bother quoting each statement I found to be ridiculous, but needless to say, this is the kind of post that cries "AMD ME!" ! 😱
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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:
Surely you have noticed that he used a lot of FUD and irrealistic claims in his post? Hell the very first one is a misinformed statement!
I won't bother quoting each statement I found to be ridiculous, but needless to say, this is the kind of post that cries "AMD ME!" ! 😱
--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:
traviss187
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the statement that the top of the line 5-10% proformance increase usually costs you the most money is why i was surprised to see that intel is releaseing the 3.2 and 3.4ghz presscott at the same time, with the 3.2 being imo very reasonably priced at around $420. in most cases a new processor gets released and then most users have to wait until a newer version to make the original "resonably" priced.
for whatever reasons I was happily surprised to see this and think that it will make the presscott more widly available to average users much faster.
for whatever reasons I was happily surprised to see this and think that it will make the presscott more widly available to average users much faster.
slvr_phoenix
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I'm confused Eden. You make it sound as though you believe that Omid's rant was somehow informative or that he actually had a new point.
Tell me, how is the Intel/AMD marketing any different now from how it has been for years? Or different from how ATi/nVidia marketing has been for years? How is <i>any</i> of this <i>at all</i> different from the way things have always been and always will be in the PC industry?
Marketing always sounds loud trumpets and claims that ___ is the next quantium leap (a wonderful misnomer) in computing. And competing companies always do whatever they can to spoil any of their competition's thunder. 'Tis just the way that the industry works.
And there are always the tech extremists who would pay whatever amount for the latest and greatest with or without marketing, just as there are always the tech enthusiasts who are more objective in their purchasing, and just as there are always the uninformed who actually buy into the marketing.
For Omid to even bother ranting at all is just plain silly. This is just the way that things have <i>always</i> been. The only difference is that this time Omid is sick of it. Whoop-dee-doo. Give him a cookie. But to rant <i>now</i> about it when it's <i>always</i> been like that is just silly. He might as well complain about Intel holding IDF at all or AMD's 'AMD me' campaign.
<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
Tell me, how is the Intel/AMD marketing any different now from how it has been for years? Or different from how ATi/nVidia marketing has been for years? How is <i>any</i> of this <i>at all</i> different from the way things have always been and always will be in the PC industry?
Marketing always sounds loud trumpets and claims that ___ is the next quantium leap (a wonderful misnomer) in computing. And competing companies always do whatever they can to spoil any of their competition's thunder. 'Tis just the way that the industry works.
And there are always the tech extremists who would pay whatever amount for the latest and greatest with or without marketing, just as there are always the tech enthusiasts who are more objective in their purchasing, and just as there are always the uninformed who actually buy into the marketing.
For Omid to even bother ranting at all is just plain silly. This is just the way that things have <i>always</i> been. The only difference is that this time Omid is sick of it. Whoop-dee-doo. Give him a cookie. But to rant <i>now</i> about it when it's <i>always</i> been like that is just silly. He might as well complain about Intel holding IDF at all or AMD's 'AMD me' campaign.
<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
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