The Oculus Rift Review

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.

TX_Tech

Reputable
Dec 29, 2015
17
0
4,510


Why do you think you can't take a picture of a TV or monitor?

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2014/03/hands-on-samsung-ud590-review-a-lean-mean-4k-monitor/

Scroll down, a nice picture of the actual monitor is there. Yes, for marketing materials, the screen image is often tossed in at post due to being easier and perfect, but plenty of people take pictures of their TVs and monitors.

http://www.technobuffalo.com/reviews/samsung-un46es8000-46-inch-led-smart-tv-review/

There is another. He has too much bouncing light in the room, but he is showing the glossy screen. Clearly those are real shots of the TV however.

Your shutter speed needs to sync with the Rift, if it is 90hz, then try a 1/90 shutter speed (or something that divides with . It may take several tries, depending on how the screen refreshes (and if it is indeed low persistence). Being 1.5x faster refresh than standard TVs or monitors, I doubt default settings would do a good job however.
 

TX_Tech

Reputable
Dec 29, 2015
17
0
4,510


Returning stuff ordered online isn't common?

Have you never heard of Amazon?



Then frankly this has even LESS of a chance of success than I thought.

I already own many of the games listed, such as Pinball FX2 and Defense Grid 2, are you saying they can't be used as they were purchased via Steam?



Look about 5 posts up, I addressed this very issue. The irony is that in another post, you said that this was not an issue, it was a feature. VR developers are focused on low cost, low risk games for awhile so they don't need AAA type sales.

Yes as I said in reply, the people who have a $1,500 gaming PC and $600 to spend on Rift aren't doing it to play Defense Grid 2 and Pinball FX2.

If Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto don't work with it, then Houston, we have a problem.



Thus we have a problem with VR that technology isn't going to solve.

There is a limit to what you can do with VR while sitting and still making it interesting vs. large monitors. Now you bring up standing and moving, except that you're teathered to your PC and now someone has to have space to move in (and not run into anything.

It is one of those ideas that fails to take into account real homes and apartments and spaces people live.

Wii worked with movement because you could see where you were, plus it was a social game. VR is very anti-social and if you can't see your movement, you really need to be sitting or standing in a omnitreadmill strapped in for safety.
 

dennisburke

Distinguished
May 12, 2008
100
0
18,680
First-Person Combat is more than a "great idea", it's what most of us are waiting for. If the experience is "unsettling" it almost sounds like a psychological problem. Will the next generation of VR hardware solve this? My chair swivels and rolls, so I'm not sitting in a La-Z-Boy.
 

BrutalAttis

Reputable
Feb 3, 2015
19
0
4,510
Thanks for an excellent article and your participation in the comments - that answered allot of my questions.

I am patiently awaiting my Rift (I got my order in about 45 min after open) ... I am mostly going to be playing Elite Dangerous,

I was hoping to see benchmarks on Elite Dangerous as its one of the more serious titles in the line up.

My hardware, GTX 980 ti, 16 GB, X99 with 5830K @ 4.4 - I believe I am as ready as I can be.
 

jasonelmore

Distinguished
Aug 10, 2008
626
7
18,995
I stopped reading in the "setup up the rift" when I saw:

1. "you're asked to set up an account..."
2. "you're prompted to configure a payment method..."

What am I setting up an account for, why do I have to 'sign in', and what am I setting up a payment for??
I stopped reading in the "setup up the rift" when I saw:

1. "you're asked to set up an account..."
2. "you're prompted to configure a payment method..."

What am I setting up an account for, why do I have to 'sign in', and what am I setting up a payment for??

1: Because it's 2016 and cloud features are needed
2: Because you will want/need to buy games.

It's a platform not a basic peripheral.
 

c4v3man

Distinguished
Oct 2, 2009
69
0
18,630


Have you ever tried to take a picture of a TV screen or a monitor? It doesn't work. I don't know that you can get a camera with a fast enough shutter speed to capture one frame from the Rift. Maybe a slow motion video camera could do it, but my SLR certainly can't.
I tried taking some images of both the DK2 and the retail Rift. Both images turned out blurry beyond what I would consider fair to post here. They DO NOT represent what you see through the headset.

I'm open to suggestion. If someone has ideas of how we can make that happen, I have a DK2, Rift, and Vive Pre available to compare, and I would love to share that if we figure out how photograph it accurately.
I don't think you understand photography and/or the vr headsets properly. Shutter speeds are absolutely not your problem, as any camera, DSLR or otherwise will be able to capture at a 1/90 shutter speed necessary to capture a single frame, obviously taking a higher shutter speed such as 1/500 would reduce the possibility of capturing an image in between frames on the VR headset. Simply flip your DSLR to M/Manual mode and set the shutter speed high enough and you'll be fine. The main issue with taking a picture of the headsets would be the focal point and general field of view mismatch between the "projected image" of the vr headset, and the field of view of the camera lens itself, which even with wide angle macro lense might be difficult or impossible to capture due to the lenses being used to replicate such a wide FOV inside the headset.

Finally, showing the screen door effect is a pointless exercise regardless, as the visibility of the SDE depends on far too many factors such as the detail level of what you're looking at, your own personal visual acuity, the amount of motion present, etc. A mostly static image showing fine details will likely reveal SDE or at least resolution deficiencies to anyone with decent eyesight. A simple cartoony-image moving fluidly/quickly will distract the eye enough to not notice much if any SDE.

To be honest, I think the resolution is noticeably low in current generation products (having seen DK1, DK2, and Google Cardboard), and it is simple to express why. A monitor that fills up perhaps 20-60 degrees of your field of view has a visible difference between 1080p and 4k/5k. Now you're slapping what is effectively 1080p/2k image into a 110 degree field of vision, you'd need likely an 8k+ vr headset to even approach that level of fidelity. Now imagine the level of hardware required to drive an 8k display fluidly, and it's clear we're simply not there yet.

That's not to say that the technology is worthless or "too blurry" for use, as the point of VR is creating an immersive experience, allowing you to control the POV seamlessly with your head, etc. The DK2/Cardboard with a decent phone are "good enough" to create an enjoyable experience for most content, but certainly not clear enough to replace a static display like a monitor. Different tools for different uses...
 

HaB1971

Commendable
Feb 24, 2016
41
0
1,530


That's good to know, I haven't frequented Frontier's forums since long before release and pay scant attention to their news letters so I didn't see anything about the Vive as I knew Oculus was always in the frame...

But i'll still hold off until both systems are fully out in the wild and freely available with them tested and reviewed before deciding which one to back... hopefully it doesn't turn into a format war and I pick the VR equivalent of HD DVD or Beta Max
 

kcarbotte

Contributing Writer
Editor
Mar 24, 2015
1,995
2
11,785


I can't think of a single example of when the biggest tech companies were working together to make an idea happen.



Yes. Please.
Products that have direct competition such as HD-DVD and Betamax do not count in this list.
The problems in VR are being solved univerally with all the big companies working somewhat together. Even Oculus, Valve and Sony see themselves as colleagues rather than competitors at this stage. They are all working towards getting people universally intersted in VR. The day will come when they are direct competition, but as Palmer Luckey said it, a sale for Vive or a sale for PSVR is not likely a lost sale for Oculus as this time.




Then don't. There's already tens of thousands of units, if not hundreds of thousands sold. People are buying them regardless. Content will come. There's never anything all that compelling when a new platform launches.
Look at the consoles in thier first few weeks and months. The good stuff comes later. No ones holding a gun to your head to buy one today, and Oculus isn't going out of business if you don't.



Do I have a bias towards the success of VR? Sure. I wouldn't have spent the last three years studying it closely if I didn't. There's a reason I'm the VR reviewer.

Where I try hard to be as unbiased as possible is when reviewing hardware. I'm not going to hide a percieved bias for my belief the VR is the future.

Developers have been working on VR titles for 3 years. There's content coming. To think there isn't is silly.
This first round of content and developers are still experimenting with what works.

Sony's Shuhei Yoshida recently said in and interview that he encourages PSVR devs to make short, quick experiences that can be built in short periods of time. VR development is changing so fast that games with long dev cycles will be left in the dust. New best practices, new techniques, and better ways to make compelling content pop up all the time.
For the first while you'll see these sorts of games. Expect more arcade-like games that you can play in short bursts.

the price of the hardware is definitely at odds with the software that's out there right now, but that's part of being an early adopter. When the iPhone launched it didn't have any apps for it. Look how quickly that took off.

It's all about people seeing the potential of VR, and all it takes is a trial.
If you look around the internet at all the Rift reviews, even the most scathing ones acknowledge that VR is the future.

Also, the price of entry is hardware 2K for the average reader around here. For an average consumer, sure, it's a tremendous amound to ask. The early adopters for VR are going to mostly be gamers that already have the computer needed. For them, the buy in is $600 and I feel that is worth the cost.
It's only a matter of time before the average gaming PC will be VR ready already. Games are getting more demanding, and even for 2D screens, several new games are asking for GTX 970 level GPUs anyway.

AMD and Nvidia are committing to VR, as are the game engine makers. This is week one of consumer VR. We'll be having a very different conversation in year 2.
 

kcarbotte

Contributing Writer
Editor
Mar 24, 2015
1,995
2
11,785


Apparently what I was trying to say is lost on people.
It's hard to take a crisp image of a moving scene on a screen.

But regardless if you can take an image of a TV. I actually tried to take images of the Rift and it did not work, as I've stated twice already.
If it did, I would have shared them.

If we figure out a way to do it, we'll do it, but I can't magically make the image clear, and I'm not going to show you a blurry image to try and show the image quality, because frankly that would be disingenuous.

I expect a faster camera would work, but mine doesn't seem to have a fast enough shutter to do it. The other problem is its incredibly difficult to hold both an SLR and and HMD steady for a picture. We have to figure out how to rig it up to hold it steady. That's not going to happen today, but we'll explore this as soon as we can.

 

kcarbotte

Contributing Writer
Editor
Mar 24, 2015
1,995
2
11,785


I live in Canada. That's not an option for me. Didn't know it was in America. I guess I was wrong about that. It's certainly not common around here.

I can order from Amazon, but it will cost me nearly the price of the product in most cases to return it.



I'm trying to figure this out. My press account for Oculus has the games unlocked for me, but I also own Project Cars and Elite Dangerous, and I have no idea if you need a new copy to play on the Rift, of if it will unlock automatically. Soon as I know we'll let people know how that works.



I address that problem in my review. Most people are going to want to wait for deeper, richer content.
The stuff that is available is a lot of fun though, and it offers a great glimpse of what possible in VR.

Keep in mind, VR devs are just experimenting here. VR is so new, no one knows what works. Developers had the same ideas as most people. A call of duty game would be awesome in theory, but we're a long way from that level of game in VR unless you use a third part app and have a serious ability to avoid motion sickness.



I've had a Vive Pre in my living room for a month now. I have a total of 6 x 7 feet and it works wonderfully. I move a table out of the way when I want to play and thats it. Most people have enough space for room scale VR.
Games don't have you walking around for miles. You get few feet of area to move around and it works far better than you might imagine.

Every system, Rift, Vive and PSVR have gone the route of tracked controllers, and every single developer that's working in VR that I've had the chance to talk to are super excited about the prospects.
Tracked hand controllers are the key ingrediant to really sell the idea that you are in the game. A wheel or flight stick would have the same effect in a racing of space game.

Wii controllers were so popular because it brought intuitive natural motions into video games. Suddenly anyone could play a game, not just tradditional games familiar with controllers.
Hand tracked controllers have the same effect in VR, only far more compelling. I wish I could explain it better.
 

Hesadanza

Commendable
Mar 29, 2016
1
0
1,510
Can you show where exactly you measured the device to come up with "~171 (~216) × ~102 mm (W (width including headphones) × D)"?
 

kcarbotte

Contributing Writer
Editor
Mar 24, 2015
1,995
2
11,785


I definitely don't know alot about my camera, or photography in general. I'm not a photographer, I'm here for my expertise in graphics and vr hardware.

I agree completely that SDE is subjective, but I can't seem to convince the crowd that a picture of the SDE (which isn't there. its a different kind of display - Oculus won't confirm, but we think its a diamond pentile screen) is not of any merit. It will only fuel the argument that SDE is a problem, when its really not.
try the kit on and see for yourself. that's the best advice I can give someone.

If you wan't the same level of clarity that you get witha 4K screen today, we're not there. But your cerntainly don't need 4k/8k for enjoyable VR.
 

kcarbotte

Contributing Writer
Editor
Mar 24, 2015
1,995
2
11,785


I don't have the time to edit a picture, but the measurement for the earphones was taken accross the top of the headset over the earphones using a measuring tape.
the tape when under the top headstrap, so that it touched the tops of both headphones.
The measurement without was taken from across the front.
 

computerguy72

Distinguished
Sep 22, 2011
193
3
18,695
No mention of VR motion sickness or kinetosis in this conclusion ? This is a major showstopper, preventing more than a few minutes of immersion for most people.
That's largely BS. I have a DK2 and it's not nearly as nice as the CV1 or Vive and lots of people tried it with a very small % with those issues. My biggest problem was prying people away so someone else could play around with it. We played Elite Dangerous for many hours at a time with no such issues. Probably 5hrs straight in minecrift with no issues. It really is a blast to use.
 

Hellbound

Distinguished
Jul 7, 2004
465
0
18,780
Please benchmark the gtx 780 Ti with the rift... The 780 Ti is close to the 970 in performance.. Matter of fact, on your Desktop GPU Performance Hierarchy Table the GTX 780, 780 Ti, 970, Titan, R9 290, 290X, 390X, 390 are all on the same hierarchy level. The focus on current generation is driving me nuts lol.. Hell, test the gtx 680, because its on the same level as the 380...
 

piklar

Honorable
Mar 5, 2012
44
0
10,540
I completely stopped gaming 7 months ago, sold my sli 970s and 70" 4K display and returned to my gift of painting and drawing .. Best choice I've made in years! This is the 1st time in seven months I've felt compelled to write a comment here.. not because Im interested in VR gaming but because the release of these true consumer VR platforms in feels historical. It takes me me back to Dad bringing home Atari in 1983 and all the kids in the neighborhood wanting to be come over. It's takes me back to the wonder I felt the first time I played unreal tournament when the vodoo cards were blowing gamers socks off. 2016 can now offer a VR experience that will forever change the meaning of immersion in gaming. Imo the biggest landmark in pc gaming in almost 20 years. As history has shown time and time again this is only going to evolve from here on in.. LG already has 5" 4K panels.. panels can be easily curved .. how much was the Atari when it 1st came out? VR will become more affordable, less cumbersome, lighter, wireless, GPUS will catch up , think 2019 and beyond . Exciting times!
 

HelenFoster

Commendable
Mar 30, 2016
1
0
1,510
I have just completed a 3year DOD contract working with a much more sophisticated version of this system

Our systems included not just goggles & headphones, but had a very highend backpack mounted computer with WLAN connection to the Controller-System that created/maintained the 3D virtual environment that soldiers/MP were training/operating in. Beyond that, there were a total of 9-sensors mounted on Helmet, back, uppper & lower arms, on your thighs, so that you could stand, kneel, or go prone. There was a simulated weapon with a joystick that would allow you to walk or run, foward, backward, or sideways

I don't know the 'actual' prices of our system, but we were given some ballpark, shipping-insurance kind of costs. Goggles & Headset aprox=$10k, Backpack aprox=$3k, 9-Magnetically-oriented Sensors aprox=$20k, Simulated Weapons aprox=$10k, Software-per-station aprox=$2-5k

For a small number of people there will be a motion-sickness type of issue, from our surveys and experience this is somewhere around 5% .Some other negative effects are mentioned here - http://technologyessays.org/effects-of-technology/
Many of those people have told me that they get 'sick' at OMNI-MAX, 3D-Movies, going to friends' houses and watching consumer-3D-Moviex, and also just playing intense 2D video games

FOR EVERYBODY, the first time you put them on, and get into a 3D Simulation (just gave a look at that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnGMQxwnHVg) , it is a mind-altering experience, and each time thereafter much less so. For some people, this is a physically exhausting & draining experience, for others it is not so. For the majority, they can do this for hours.
 

beetlejuicegr

Distinguished
Jan 10, 2011
350
1
18,815
So to get it straight, all the games where you were not "a camera over or behind the character/mouse button" gave you some weird feelings and i want to assume that this is because you were standing or sitting still right?

So with this feeling happening on all the first person games that you tested in occulus rift, we can assume that we definitely need body/hands positioning/tracking system along. So i wont be surprised to pay even more for a "complete" satisfaction?
 
Time will be the ultimate test for the Rift, but I don't see that fate coming.
The companies working in the VR industry are incredibly excited about the prospect of this new medium. When the biggest companies in the world are pushing to bring something to market in the same way, it should be telling of the potential these companies see.

Facebook and Oculus have not been shy about saying that adoption will be slow. If developers haven't been paying attention to that, then they will surely fail. Most understand that the market will be small, but in the early days of VR the market share will be large, as most people buying in this early will have a hunger to try out as much of the content as possible.

I've also spoken with several VR developers in person about this issue. Most, if not all of them, are prepared for low volume sales. This is precicesly the reason why you won't see many AAA titles exclusively for VR for a while. The games will be shorter, and inexpensive to produce.
VR games are mostly being developed by indie shops that have little overhead, and few employees to pay. They are also mostly working for minimum wage, hoping to see bonuses at the end of the year from better than expected sales.


I don't think we have any chance of seeing the Rift, or the Vive, fall into the realm of abandonware. Tools are getting easier to use (VR editors), and cheaper to access (Unity, Unreal Engine, Cryengine are all free for individuals.) The resources for people to build for this medium are vast, and there's no better time to be an idie dev than now. VR is a new market, and anyone has as much chance as the next to make the next big killer app. It resets the industry and makes it easier to jump into.
VR will not be dominated by the likes of EA and Activision for some time now. It opens the door for anyone with a good idea to become the next powerhouse. That will be a very compelling prospect for many indipendant, and small development firms.

the bolded section is it's own black hole of problems for the RIFT as well. And this is why my "orphaned tech" concern is such a big one.

If the only games available for it are indi games or cheap and small games why would I want to spend $600 on it? Do you see the problem with this? What RIFT needs is a large install base to grab the industry's attention with the potential for large sales in order to become the "next" gen of tech. The only way it gets a large install base is if the games available with it are SO attractive that pc gamers get high end machines able to play them, and then shell out the $600 for the rift. If the only thing available for it are cheap games then we won't have a reason to shell out $$ for the rift. If we don't shell out the $$ for the rift big game developers won't make games attractive for the rift, and the whole situation spirals into a no growth curve which makes it a money pit for facebook.

I'm in the top % of pc gamers who has a computer which can support a Rift and the disposable income available to purchase one now if the mood struck me. But to my eyes it looks like it will be a $600 waste of cash. And that opinion won't change until there is something available on the RIFT that is attractive enough to spend $600+ the price of the game title to play.
 

kcarbotte

Contributing Writer
Editor
Mar 24, 2015
1,995
2
11,785


I would love to, but I don't have a 780 Ti.
We actually tried to find one during the month leading up to the Rift launch.

As far as performance testing. That will come, but as we stated in the article, there's not much we can do about benchmark tools right now for VR.
Once we have VRMark, and VRScore, we'll to thorough testing with both.

 
I have just completed a 3year DOD contract working with a much more sophisticated version of this system

Our systems included not just goggles & headphones, but had a very highend backpack mounted computer with WLAN connection to the Controller-System that created/maintained the 3D virtual environment that soldiers/MP were training/operating in. Beyond that, there were a total of 9-sensors mounted on Helmet, back, uppper & lower arms, on your thighs, so that you could stand, kneel, or go prone. There was a simulated weapon with a joystick that would allow you to walk or run, foward, backward, or sideways

I don't know the 'actual' prices of our system, but we were given some ballpark, shipping-insurance kind of costs. Goggles & Headset aprox=$10k, Backpack aprox=$3k, 9-Magnetically-oriented Sensors aprox=$20k, Simulated Weapons aprox=$10k, Software-per-station aprox=$2-5k

For a small number of people there will be a motion-sickness type of issue, from our surveys and experience this is somewhere around 5% .Some other negative effects are mentioned here - http://technologyessays.org/effects-of-technology/
Many of those people have told me that they get 'sick' at OMNI-MAX, 3D-Movies, going to friends' houses and watching consumer-3D-Moviex, and also just playing intense 2D video games

FOR EVERYBODY, the first time you put them on, and get into a 3D Simulation (just gave a look at that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnGMQxwnHVg) , it is a mind-altering experience, and each time thereafter much less so. For some people, this is a physically exhausting & draining experience, for others it is not so. For the majority, they can do this for hours.

I'll take Simmunitions or MILES over that any day.
 

kato128

Distinguished
Feb 23, 2009
160
5
18,685
I'm interested how 700 series cards go with this tech. I've got a 780ti OC and the nvidia panel says I'm ready for vr and steam says I'm not. Really hoped that the last couple of VR benchmark articles etc would have covered these older gen top end cards because the guy who bought a 980ti 6 months ago is good to go (quite obviously) but the rest of us are looking at whether we need to upgrade or not.
 

kcarbotte

Contributing Writer
Editor
Mar 24, 2015
1,995
2
11,785


This is one card I would very much like to have in the lineup too.
I simply don't have a 780Ti, and there's no way to get a factory sample this late in the game. We wanted to buy one, but even that wasn't possible.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.