News Thermaltake Wants to Jazz up the Way You Apply Thermal Compound

[Phaaze88]

You're a busy guy Phase to use that much paste. I think I only put together 20 some systems over my lifetime. But I do respect your opinion.

I admit, I have PC-OCD. That's all it is.
I've gone way out of the way:
-to find the difference in paste applications with NT-H2 on a 7820X
-and tested 3 different air coolers over and over, these 2 of which were claimed to be 'Noctua killers', but I'm not seeing it with my cpu and setup so far, so this has me a little frustrated
-and tested different chassis fan setups to see whats the best overall
I get one idea or another, and it's just not enough for me to take another's word for it; I have to see for myself, or I won't be satisfied

BTW: I made a typo in my previous post. I meant to say uneven Surfaces. Not uneven temps.

Gotcha.

 

[2Be_or_Not2Be]

If you think using the stencil is a waste of paste, what would you think of a thin stencil with a wide, flat applicator that would cover the width of the CPU with a single pass?

I do agree with CPU coolers often not having a smooth surface anyway, so keeping the thermal paste evenly spread out to begin with, perhaps the intent of the stencil itself, seems to be a step-up over just doing the blob in the middle.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Seems like an unnecessary added step. Is it really that hard to push the plunger on a tube of thermal paste and be done?

 

[digitalgriffin]

I admit, I have PC-OCD. That's all it is.
I've gone way out of the way:
-to find the difference in paste applications with NT-H2 on a 7820X
-and tested 3 different air coolers over and over, these 2 of which were claimed to be 'Noctua killers', but I'm not seeing it with my cpu and setup so far, so this has me a little frustrated
-and tested different chassis fan setups to see whats the best overall
I get one idea or another, and it's just not enough for me to take another's word for it; I have to see for myself, or I won't be satisfied


Gotcha.

It's all about test conditions. The inside & outside static air pressure/cabinet flow rate, fan design/speed, density, humidity can affect cooler performance from lab results. It becomes a juggling game the numbers get so close. Even a voltage power drop @ the wall can cause PSU's to emit more heat as they become less efficient.

When we did lab test in aero, the number of parameters we had to measure and stick on our test reports was pretty intensive. We had to prove calibration also. One little parameter can throw things off a couple percentage points.

 

[Phaaze88]

It's all about test conditions. The inside & outside static air pressure/cabinet flow rate, fan design/speed, density, humidity can affect cooler performance from lab results. It becomes a juggling game the numbers get so close. Even a voltage power drop @ the wall can cause PSU's to emit more heat as they become less efficient.

When we did lab test in aero, the number of parameters we had to measure and stick on our test reports was pretty intensive. We had to prove calibration also. One little parameter can throw things off a couple percentage points.

With all the parameters I tested so far, the SEEMINGLY deciding denominator was the weight of the heatsinks. But I'm going off topic...

Thermaltake looks poised to take advantage of loyal fans and people who don't know any better with this product. It is not for the likes of me, and I already said why.

 

[Flemishdragon]

Everyone that did some tiling or floor tiling in the bathroom or wherever. Knows the cement glue under a tile builds up and cannot get away it doesn't spread egaly.

It makes sense to me, the stencil's shape can ensure complete coverage and the thickness of the stencil can ensure a consistent amount of paste is applied. I just hope people remember to remove the stencil before seating the cooler.

I agree, although I don't like the edges they are left empty the honey comb stopŝ, feels wrong even though there might be not a chip under it . Anyone who did some stone tiling in the bathroom or tiling in general knows the cement glue piles up and cannot get away to spread and builds up underneath unevenly. The question is does it work and if it does work will you notice half of a degree difference?

 

[martinch]

Why, of course, take advantage of people who wouldn't know any better... how typical ... Complete coverage of the IHS is pointless

If you look at Noctua's industrial (i.e. server) CPU coolers, they have thermal paste pre-applied to the base of the heatsink in a (thin) honeycomb pattern like this, as they find it gives the best result (there's an interview with one of the engineers on YouTube, looking at their Threadripper coolers). It doesn't quite cover as much of the heatsink as in the Thermaltake pictures, but it does cover the majority of the base of the heatsink. I'm assuming if Noctua do it, there's a good reason for it ...

Having said that, I just followed the ASUS USA YouTube videos and used a small dot in the centre of the CPU when I did my current CPU - the U12S pushed the paste across almost all of the IHS' surface anyway...

 

[Darkbreeze]

Well, ok. Do what works for you.

I mean, it's not like I didn't personally test different paste applications myself to sate my own curiousity... how hard is that?
I could just go and take some popular(?) individual's... opinion(?) - IDK what to call it - as fact and not bother, right?

It's also not like he isn't getting paid and showered with swag from most those companies as well, and might not have a vested interest in helping them sell product, and therefore might not have a good reason for telling YOU to waste a tube of paste on each mount job.

Having said that, I just followed the ASUS USA YouTube videos and used a small dot in the centre of the CPU when I did my current CPU - the U12S pushed the paste across almost all of the IHS' surface anyway...

And this, is the WHOLE point from any of us who not only think that this product is a gimmick, but also that using more than the least amount required to get around 80% heat spreader coverage and fill the pores is simply a waste. The thermal paste, TIM, pads, whatever product you want to use or whatever you want to call it, is NOT there to cool, or to magically facilitate heat transfer because it's a better transport, or any of half a dozen other reasons I've heard for why we use paste in the first place through the years.

There is only ONE reason why a thermal interface material is used and that is to bridge the gap between two metal surfaces as much as possible by filling in the microscopic porosity of the surfaces so that there is no air gap. Air gaps, bubbles or blisters are bad for heat transfer. But having a thicker layer of TIM is bad for heat transfer as well. As we well know, if you had two perfectly flat surfaces and there was zero porosity, there would be absolutely no need whatsoever for any thermal interface material at all, but we really can't provide that kind of finish so for whatever amount of peak to valley roughness or porosity you have, based on machining or natural characteristic of the materials, we need to ONLY provide enough TIM to fill those microscopic valleys and holes.

A product like this one, is not just gimmicky, it's gimmicky and wasteful, and potentially problematic for over application.

Yes, Noctua pre-applies TIM on it's enterprise and industrial coolers, and in a similar fashion, but they use what is almost certainly a much better product to begin with AND, more importantly, if you take a very CLOSE look at the application of that TIM you will see that it is a strictly controlled, very thin application. Nothing like the octagonal "cakes" of TIM I'm seeing in the marketing slides for this product. Somebody should go kick the Thermalfake product manager and marketing team, hell, even the CEO, right in the worst spot.

 

[Phaaze88]

If you look at Noctua's industrial (i.e. server) CPU coolers, they have thermal paste pre-applied to the base of the heatsink in a (thin) honeycomb pattern like this, as they find it gives the best result (there's an interview with one of the engineers on YouTube, looking at their Threadripper coolers). It doesn't quite cover as much of the heatsink as in the Thermaltake pictures, but it does cover the majority of the base of the heatsink. I'm assuming if Noctua do it, there's a good reason for it ...

That's a one-time thing though. When the paste has run it's course and dries up, then the user has to do the application themselves... what do?
Do they get this Thermalfake piece of crap product, or do they do this?

Seriously, try the full cover, thin layer yourself and see what happens VS the center application you already do.
You'll likely see a greater change from adding a 2nd fan onto your NH-U12S, and that won't be by much.

Somebody should go kick the Thermalfake product manager and marketing team, hell, even the CEO, right in the worst spot.

Depends on the individual; it might not be where you think it is...

 

[Darkbreeze]

Well, it's the wallet, so that's where you HIT them, but when you kick them, it's always in the same spot regardless of gender.

 

[Phaaze88]

D'aww, you missed where I was going with that...

 

[Giroro]

likely its not cost effective.

like article said (and u can easily see why) you waste thermal paste.

To be fair, customers wasting thermal paste would be an upside to companies that wants to sell as much thermal paste as possible.

 

[Giroro]

That comment makes a lot of sense.
It makes so much sense that most other readers have probably already thought/rejected this comment, for some reason.

Engineering 101: Every problem has a solution that is simple, obvious, and wrong.

 

[Giroro]

Well, ok. Do what works for you.

I mean, it's not like I didn't personally test different paste applications myself to sate my own curiousity... how hard is that?
I could just go and take some popular(?) individual's... opinion(?) - IDK what to call it - as fact and not bother, right?

Lets say for argument that maximum IHS coverage doesn't matter.. and for lesser air coolers maximum transfer to the heat pipes won't really affect the rate heat can be dissipated from the fins, regardless.
Is saving one cent worth of in thermal paste from a tube that will expire by the time you need it again really worth the effort of doing the research needed to accurately guess the optimal paste location?

 

[Darkbreeze]

D'aww, you missed where I was going with that...

I guess I did.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Lets say for argument that maximum IHS coverage doesn't matter.. and for lesser air coolers maximum transfer to the heat pipes won't really affect the rate heat can be dissipated from the fins, regardless.
Is saving one cent worth of in thermal paste from a tube that will expire by the time you need it again really worth the effort of doing the research needed to accurately guess the optimal paste location?

This comment makes literally no sense for most of us here, and we do builds ALL THE TIME. Regularly. Sometimes two, three or more per week. So, I can't recall the last time a tube of ANY kind of thermal paste lasted more than two months, even the cheap stuff that comes with some heatsinks which I don't usually use ON those heatsinks, but save for use on lower end systems that need to be repasted but wouldn't see much benefit from a higher end paste like I'd use on any of the aftermarket coolers.

Besides which, based on the marketing slides, it would seem that about four to five times as much paste is getting used per application here, and when you look at the 1g cost of a tube of Kryonaut, you will see that amounts to a hell of a lot more than an additional one cent of thermal past since it's about 10 bucks a gram. More like, it amounts to throwing about two to four dollars of paste away. Each application. Each time.

Not that big of a deal for the average person who does this infrequently, when added to the cost of a thousand dollar system, but a big deal for guys like me who are already trying to avoid shrinking their margin when doing builds or service by simply wasting extra time and materials.

Bottom line, this product is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[Phaaze88]

Lets say for argument that maximum IHS coverage doesn't matter..

But it already doesn't.
I tested it with my own cpu numerous times. If I get that stroke of curiosity, taking some random Youtuber's word for it won't be enough to sate it. So for my own interests, I tested different paste applications with NT-H1 and H2 on my 7820X...
Full coverage is so insignificant - once the paste has spread and covered the area of the die beneath, it's just margin of error type stuff comparing the 2.
I saw a greater variance in thermals from adding/removing a fan to the heatsink.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22335323-post10.html <- It's mostly Intel chips covered here - Ryzen 3000 will be a little different, either way, it already doesn't matter.

Is saving one cent worth of in thermal paste from a tube that will expire by the time you need it again really worth the effort of doing the research needed to accurately guess the optimal paste location?

I've already answered that this Thermaltake product does nothing for MY use case, and is more expensive for no reason.
-I don't need full coverage. This stuff would make me go through tubes faster, and for what?

-I LOVE to get inside my PC. Either for cleaning, or I want to test certain fan configurations - or test a different cooler. PC-OCD.
This Thermaltake stuff, again, would just make me go through tubes faster, and for what?


If it fulfills YOUR needs, then power to ya mate. It's stupid expensive for someone like myself.