yes, but you are quoting Estonian law, just because your legal principles are stated in latin and ours are, doesnt mean they are the same. each country has different laws and rights. our laws are created by Westminster and the appeals courts, they dont apply to Estonia, and estonian laws dont apply here!
When a product is allowed to be sold in UK, then it's warranty policies are also in accordance of the UK laws.
not necessarily!
"allowed to be sold" doesnt cover their terms and conditions! those can be 100% illegal and they can do it.
the laws only cover things like safety standards and other standards, and tariff laws, things like you cant just bring in animals without conforming to protocols eg the UK is a rabies free zone, so dogs have to conform to rabies quarantine protocols. not the terms and conditions. imports are just covered by customs & excise, they arent contract law solicitors, so they have no idea at all about whether the t&c are valid. NOBODY checks that other than the firm making the contract, and the customer disputing it. The t&c in any case are often in the factory sealed box! so the customs officials have no idea what the t&c are!
in fact they could write out an illegal contract right in front of the head of police, the top judges, the prime minister, and cannot be stopped, as you can only stop such in a civil case where you allege a liability of more than £25000. The head of the justice system cannot stop them, as he himself hasnt experienced a liability of 25000. for disputes less than 25000, all that the customer can do is get a refund.
in Russia it is different, as they dont follow the rule of law, Putin will do whatever he wants.
warranties are civil law, and thus you have to go to a court to enforce or dispute them from either side, also if the dispute is below £10000 in the UK, it has to be done at the small claims court, and the firm has to attend the small claims court of the customer eg Bristol for me, and thus its a false economy for most firms, where they then just settle out of court. cases between 10000 and 25000 are covered by a system called "fast track" which isnt a full legal process. The police will not help you eg if you get scammed, as that is civil law. The police only cover other forms of law eg public order.
hence there are a lot of scams for amounts below 10000, and scams are usually below 25000, as all you can force is a refund.
Seasonic will have to send someone to Bristol to the nearest small claims court to me, pay for a hotel etc for their lawyer to contest their claim, and thus it is cheaper just to replace or refund, but not admit liability.
basically nobody checks contracts other than the people who write them, so as long as they are in favour of the person who writes them, they lose nothing if they put illegal things in it.
I did some study of the basics of contract law, and the ambient law always overrides contracts. contracts are civil law, and there are tons of appeals court cases which decide either way.
you can only go to a proper court for disputes over £25000 as lawyers fees are more than the amount disputed for any amount less.
in fact with civil disputes, the opposing parties have to try and resolve it between themselves first before it goes to court. eg I disputed how an investment firm processed an investment, and I had to complete the dispute with the firm before I could go to the financial ombudsman. The firm then redid it the way I said.
those latin expressions cover laws and not contracts! eg caveat emptor applies to houses, so the only way to be safe is to involve a conveyancing lawyer and a chartered surveyor to assess the house you want to purchase. hence purchases go in more than one phase, where a "For sale" sign changes to a "Sold s.t.c" sign, where s.t.c means "subject to contract", basically the buyer has time to arrange for a chartered survey, and also the deal only completes maybe 3 or 4 months later when the conveyancing lawyer has completed all his checks, eg the house might be on a mortgage, where the seller doesnt have the right to sell it. Most sales in fact are via a mortgage firm, who will arrange their own chartered surveyor.
contracts arent laws! they are just an agreement between 2 parties, and various parts of those agreements may be illegal, ie not enforceable, yet you can put them, where they are often put as a bluff.
so for example, on ebay, listings often will say "no returns" or "buyer pays postage for return", but if the item is defective or if it isnt as described then not only are they forced to accept the return, even if they said no return, but also they have to pay the postage also. Been there, done that. But you have to allow them to arrange the return postage for them to pay it. if you arranged it then you pay it.
and that is because of contract law, namely breach of contract. eg the listing says a Duracell battery 1.5V, but you receive a Varta 9V, by contract law they have to accept a return and pay the postage, as the contract is breached by not sending a Duracell 1.5V. terms of a contract are only enforceable if legal and if the firm has abided by their side of the deal, eg the items need to be as described and functioning unless stated otherwise. eg some people will sell a defunct item "for spare parts".
ebay enforces this overriding the sellers terms. but even if ebay didnt enforce, you can enforce them yourself at a small claims court. a contract is only enforceable eg "no returns" if both sides have conformed to their part of the agreement. if the item isnt as listed, then that is a breach of contract and they have to accept a return, and your "caveat emptor" is not true!
the buyer doesnt have to beware if the item isnt as described, as that is breach of contract, now the seller could run away, but not if you bought from a firm with a registered address, although they could go bankrupt before you can action the refund. Its best if the deal is in writing, otherwise it is your word against theirs. texts, emails, letters will all be alright. even spoken agreements are contracts, but the other person can pretend they never said things.
buyer beware would only apply to ensuring the seller doesnt run away, eg if you buy from a stranger in a pub, or if they go bankrupt! eg I bought an exercise bike from a firm with all parts replaceable forever. but the firm went bankrupt and I couldnt then get a replacement spanner. Luckily I eventually found the bespoke spanner.
ultimately it goes to the small claims court, and in 99% of cases even with scamsters, they give you an instant refund rather than go to the small claims court. But most people dont know their rights, so the bluffing in contracts works on most people. eg I got scammed by someone in Peru, not a peruvian but someone using Peru to be difficult to catch, and I bought a virus checker, but in fact it was a virus! I then quoted some law from advice from the Citizens Advice Bureau, threatening to go to the small claims court if he didnt give me a refund, and I got an instant refund and a warning to not use the software any more as it was now refunded!
Just because you aren't bothered to read warranty policy and aren't aware of it, doesn't excuse you to follow it.
I disagree, warranties are civil law, and thus arent the law at all. they are just arbitrary terms and conditions.
those latin expressions you gave only cover laws, not terms & conditions.
terms and conditions arent laws, but are covered by laws, contract law.
to be legally enforceable a contract needs to involve "consideration", ie this for that. so eg if I say I will give you a Seasonic PSu, and I then dont, you cannot legally force me to give you the Seasonic, as it wasnt in exchange for anything. but if I said: I will give you a Seasonic if you clean my car and you clean the car, then it is enforceable.
"caveat emptor" does apply specifically to houses, so eg if the seller didnt tell you there was subsidence or rising damp, then it is your fault.
but maybe if they said there wasnt subsidence and rising damp, and there was you might be able to sue them for fraud by false representation.
caveat emptor definitely applies to anything not mentioned, but I think with a machine, it is assumed to be functioning unless stated otherwise. But as you can live quite happily in a house with subsidence, it isnt assumed to not have this. people buy houses that they know have subsidence all the time, as it is just a subtle problem.
terms and conditions can only be forced through a civil lawsuit, and only if they are legal. There is nothing stopping terms and conditions being illegal!
you could arrange a contract which is 1 terabyte of terms and conditions, and then 500 Gig into the contract it says they can kidnap you if you buy the item.
nobody at all can stop them putting such a term.
People are versatile creatures and are able to learn. This also means to learn to keep the retail boxes for warranty claims, rather than throwing them away.
On similar example;
Public transport, namely busses. Busses go from bus stop to bus stop, to take people onboard and let people exit the bus. Both inter-city and in rural areas.
Now, i don't know how it is in UK, but when you're walking alongside the road, can you flag the passing bus to stop and take you on board? Or do you have to walk to a bus stop to get onto the bus?
Or when riding the bus, can you make the driver stop at any given spot to let you out? Or can you only exit at the bus stop?
in rural places and the countryside in the UK, the driver will usually let you off where you want. not in cities as too many people.
for getting on the bus away from the bus stop, in the countryside a specific driver might do that if the specific passenger is a regular passenger.
dont forget Estonia is former soviet union, where in the soviet union everyone in a position of authority tries to throw their weight around and obstructs every liberty.
where the general attitude of officials is "no you cant".
and a lot of those attitudes carry over to the post soviet era. Whereas in the UK, virtually everything is privately owned, even the buses and trains and electric power firms from the Thatcher era onwards.
in the soviet union, all firms were part of the government, so every job was a government job. even some small shop in Russia was government owned. I think even all accomodation was government owned, there was no private ownership of land or buildings. All schools were state schools. whereas in the UK virtually everything is privately owned: the land, the buildings, the companies, are virtually all private. The best schools are privately owned businesses. Hospitals are virtually all government owned, the NHS. By default you go to a state school. Land registry deals with who owns every square inch of land and every building in the UK. when you buy land or buildings, the ownership info is changed at land registry. A conveyancing lawyer will check if the seller is on the deeds at land registry.
with the Dr Zhivago film with Omar Sharif, the guy returns to their mansion, and finds the soviets have filled the house with peasants!
my grandfather bought a building in East Berlin, which was seized by the DDR (East Germany), and he got 0 pfennigs for it. Only after reunification, we got the building back, complete with tenants!
but the rent was not commercially viable and rent rises protected by laws, where it was heading to bankruptcy, so we eventually sold it.
Here, people have to walk to a bus stop to get onto the bus. And can exit only at the bus stops. No in-between entry/exit of the bus.
Long distance busses between major cities even won't stop at small bus stops, instead only at specific bus stops shown in the route.
for cities yes, or where there are a lot of passengers.
for long distance ones, if there arent many passengers the driver might drop you off where you want.
some drivers here wont even charge you anything if say the ticket machine is broken, they'll say "just get on".
for the countryside and when few passengers, it is up to the driver. some will refuse to, and some have common sense and dont have wooden hearts!
With this, one could argue that it is unfair for people, when they have to walk to/from bus stop (often 100-200m, sometimes even 500m to 1km in rural areas) and it would be fair if they can get on/off the bus at their convenient place, rather than at the bus stop. Yet, these are the rules and people can learn and adapt to this kind of system.
welcome to the soviet union!
in the UK, people have these things called hearts and also common sense. they arent all officious a** holes!
Warranty is there for the consumers and not for the manufacturer.
So, if warranty would be banned by the law, manufacturers will win from it and big time. While consumers will suffer and greatly.
E.g EU law states that any hardware sold in EU, must have minimum of 2 years warranty. If all manufacturers would uphold that, none of the hardware would have longer warranty than 2 years. Meaning your Noctua fans wouldn't have 6 year warranty, but instead 2 year one. Or your Corsair PSU warranty would drop for 10 years to 2 years. Seasonic PSU warranty from 12 years to 2 years.
Longer warranty than mandated by law, shows the reliability of the hardware, while also showing honesty from the brand and increases brand reputation.
yes, and Currys.co.uk enforce their own warranties which dont have these onerous rules. so it can be done, and that is why wherever possible I buy from them. As I get proper service and not some bluff warranty!
what I am requesting, is that warranties need to be proper warranties, and not demand you keep all the boxes.
for kitchen appliances, the amount of boxes isnt feasible to store.
Since after all, warranty essentially states that the manufacturer gives you a guarantee, that their product will last at least that amount of time (6 years, 10 years, 12 years) and if it does not, then manufacturer will replace the defective product at their own cost.
There are even lifetime warranties out there. E.g my Kingston RAM has lifetime warranty. Meaning that as long as i own and use it - it has warranty. Be it 10, 20 or 50 years.
Here's the keyword: "should not".
There is a big difference between "should not" and "must not".
possibly, but as it is less than £10000, I can take them to the small claims court, and they will have no option but to give a refund. All they can do if they attend and win is refuse to refund, but the cost of Seasonic attending Bristol will be more than that refund!
the document is a legal guidance document, so in a court you can say the legal guidance says ... should not..., so I feel this is unfair trading. They are obstructing me reading the onerous term, thus the contract is not in good faith.
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