Trying to find a gaming card for older PCI...not PCI-e PCI express

[OldtimeGamer]

Hello...I just read and replied to a thread where a guy wanted to add a graphics card, to his older desktop...same thing I need to do.

I need a good performance card for the older type PCI socket...not a PCI-e / PCI express.... because my older HP a1240n mother board, does not allow for AGP or PCI-e.

And from all the reading I have done, there is no such thing as an aftermarket adapter which "correctly" adapts a regular PCI slot to AGP or PCI-e....meaning it will perform 100% as it should.

This is a shame because my other desktop, a HP a620n does have AGP and it has a Radeon X850 PRO, that I installed back when they were new on the market.

....But my HP a620n w/Radeon X850 PRO will not support a CPU over 2.2ghz. I can play a MMO such as "Dungeons and Dragons online" but a game such as "Tera online", requires a 3.2mhz or better CPU.

My HP a1240n mother board only has a 3.0mhz CPU, so I just bought an "upgrade" (CPU 3.4mhz --Socket: LGA775 #550 Intel processor...which is the largest CPU the board will support) This is the board I have: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00361570&lc=en&cc=us&product=1130587

I then bought a refurbished Radeon X850XT Platinum graphics card for it BUT....then wen I received it, realized the Radeon X850XT is PCI-e ....not the basic PCI...so I can't even use it.

I'm now I'm back to the drawing board.....trying to find a "good" gaming card, for my old HP a1240n system.

Any suggestions? Ebay is full of them.... cheap...but I want to get the best one I can.

 

[OldtimeGamer]

WOW!!! Pretty damn impressive find, horrible card that won't perform like a normal GT610, but still a great find.

Still would not do it though. Intel HD onboard graphics can even match up to that thing.

When you say it wont perform like a GT610...are you saying that the card he pointed out

ZOTAC ZT-60604-10L GeForce GT 610 512MB 64-bit DDR3 PCI HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card

won't perform as well as the geforce gt610 that you can buy for around $35 bucks on an auction site?

 

[Novuake]

I still have XP Home Edition in both my computers, so I have never used the Window rating that I understand is a feature of newer operating systems. But even if its a little off in its rating...at that price..not too bad.

Off the top of your head, are there any other PCI-e cards that come to mind...in a similar price range which would offer a little more quality?

Not really, sapphire cards are excellent quality, they are one of AMDs biggest graphics card partners.

For 100$-120$ that is the best buy in my opinion, especially when considering the quality Sapphire provides.

As for the GT610, I meant that a PCI version of the GT610 would not perform as well as the normal PCI-e version of the GT610. But not much.

 

[joafu]

If you're still pushing for a lower budget below what iceclock posted (is A10's 7660D greater than HD 3850?), including an operating system and dedicated card equivalent to what Tera requires, a possibility :

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BnbG

Intel Celeron G555 2.7GHz Dual-Core Processor $53.99
ASRock H61M-DGS Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard $44.99
Corsair 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory $34.99
XFX Radeon HD 6670 1GB Video Card $67.74
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) $92.65

$295

Reuse your optical drive, HDD, case and Antec power supply. HD 6670 will run off the PCI-e slot, no need for external six-pin from a power supply. Sign up for newegg's e-newsletter, 8GB of Ram frequently goes <$30, usually as a 2x4GB set, cases can be had for <$25, and Windows 7 and 8 64-bit OEM drop to $80 several times a quarter. Trimming $10 off per part adds up fast, especially when trying to build under $300.

If you shop smart or have a microcenter nearby (they practically give those celerons away, it'll work just fine for Tera), you could find a processor and mobo for like $70-80 after taxes/shipping, get 4-8GB of RAM for $15-25, windows 7 for $80, and then you'll have more to throw at the video card. If your budget can swing it, try for the HD 7750.

 

[quas]

I think the way better option is just to buy good second-hand components.

Aim to get at least:
Core i3 2100
2x2GB DDR3 1333 RAM
a suitable motherboard, at least H61
graphic card 6670

I guess only the windows doesn't come second hand? can you get windows second hand? does anyone know?

 

[iceclock]

go with my build ull be happy.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BlyL
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BlyL/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BlyL/benchmarks/

CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($123.79 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus F2A55-M/CSM Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard ($79.98 @ Outlet PC)
Memory: Kingston HyperX 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($44.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Antec 450W ATX12V Power Supply ($38.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $287.75
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-02-03 21:08 EST-0500)

 

[OldtimeGamer]

I think the way better option is just to buy good second-hand components.

Aim to get at least:
Core i3 2100
2x2GB DDR3 1333 RAM
a suitable motherboard, at least H61
graphic card 6670

I guess only the windows doesn't come second hand? can you get windows second hand? does anyone know?

Good question...my Father-in-law has Windows 7 on his laptop. Legalities and stuff aside...plus he lives with us.... it possible to get a "copy" of Windows 7, right from his system or am I totally off the mark?

I never switched operating systems before, so I don't know how it's done. Of course a little online research would likely answer my question I suppose. I just never wondered if you could do it before. T would be nice not to have to buy Windows 7... if that's the best operating system I should go with.

 

[iceclock]

er u could use his installation cd-key and borrow a legal dvd copy. that would work.

or buy windows 7 for 89$

 

[OldtimeGamer]

I don't recall if Dad's computer came with a Windows 7 disk or not, when he bought it. I'll have to check on that tomorrow...I never really looked through his "computer stuff" box as he calls it. It would be really nice to not have to spend almost $80 on it. ...good money to spend elsewhere... on the project you guys have convinced me to tackle.

Now when I look here: http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=1008&game=Tera-Online
at the requirements for TERA, it shows a minimum of XP 32 but recommended of XP 64 bit. Windows 7 just says latest service pack ...Another dumb question...Is all Windows 7 running on 64 bit?

 

[iceclock]

no theres 32bit and 64bit version.

anyways u aint running tera online without my build or something close to it.

 

[OldtimeGamer]

no theres 32bit and 64bit version.

anyways u aint running tera online without my build or something close to it.

Ok...thanks. I was just trying to figure that out and now read there is a 32 and 64 version of Windows 7.

I'm really leaning towards exactly what you provided Iceclock...but that said...I very much appreciate all the input all you guys are giving me. It's great to have guys who really know what the heck they are talking about. This is going to be easier than I thought. Figuring out what to buy is 90% of the battle...it can make you head hurt.

Buy the wrong thing and I'd be right back where I started....asking about obsolete parts that don't match up to today's needs in gaming...I didn't want to go off in the wrong direction again. I'm so glad I found this forum.

I'm aslo leaning towards the http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202011&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Video+Cards-_-Sapphire+Tech-_-14202011

SAPPHIRE 100358L Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 CrossFireX Support Video Card ---that Novuake suggested. It looks like it would run TERA very well and DDO.com on a very high sort of setting.

As a graphic card goes, I think its just what I'm looking for.

 

[OldtimeGamer]

I just checked out a review of the Radeon HD 6670 vs. their HD 7770 and the 7770 really trumps the lesser graphics card in terms of performance, so as long as it will match up well with iceclock's suggestions I think I have a game-plan.

http://www.hwcompare.com/11887/radeon-hd-6670-oem-vs-radeon-hd-7770/

At least for now...my brain is now hurting and its time for bed on the East coast of the US. I'll have to check back in tomorrow afternoon and see if anyone else has some ideas they wish to contribute. Thanks again to everyone.

 

[Novuake]

I just checked out a review of the Radeon HD 6670 vs. their HD 7770 and the 7770 really trumps the lesser graphics card in terms of performance, so as long as it will match up well with iceclock's suggestions I think I have a game-plan.

http://www.hwcompare.com/11887/radeon-hd-6670-oem-vs-radeon-hd-7770/

At least for now...my brain is now hurting and its time for bed on the East coast of the US. I'll have to check back in tomorrow afternoon and see if anyone else has some ideas they wish to contribute. Thanks again to everyone.

Do not use HWcompare. Tru anandtech Bench. Much more real world.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/536?vs=613

Effectively double the performance boost from HD6670 to HD7770.

 

[joafu]

I just checked out a review of the Radeon HD 6670 vs. their HD 7770 and the 7770 really trumps the lesser graphics card in terms of performance, so as long as it will match up well with iceclock's suggestions I think I have a game-plan.

http://www.hwcompare.com/11887/radeon-hd-6670-oem-vs-radeon-hd-7770/

At least for now...my brain is now hurting and its time for bed on the East coast of the US. I'll have to check back in tomorrow afternoon and see if anyone else has some ideas they wish to contribute. Thanks again to everyone.

I really only threw that 6670 out there as an absolute minimum to budget for an OS. If your budget allows, definitely get the 7770; that should pair nicely with that HCG-400 if you move that over too. As Novuake stated, use anandtech for better comparisons. Even that 6670 in that comparison is better than the one I linked (there are DDR3 and GDDR5 variants, with the latter being better).

 

[Mahisse]

Won't he be needing a hard drive as well? Or does those old hard drives fit in a newer build?

 

[Novuake]

Won't he be needing a hard drive as well? Or does those old hard drives fit in a newer build?

That depends, does it use SATA or IDE interface? Thin grey(usually) strip or a small usually red or black cable?

 

[OldtimeGamer]

Do not use HWcompare. Tru anandtech Bench. Much more real world.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/536?vs=613

Effectively double the performance boost from HD6670 to HD7770.

I just took a look at that link and it was much more helpful as a real world comparison. There are so...so many web pages today showing tests of hardware, you can spend hours on that aspect alone...of course it proves helpful when someone had already done useful side by side comparisons so you wont have to wonder about expected performance.

Joafu...I realized you were just throwing out a good option within the price range I'm trying to stay...thanks.

 

[OldtimeGamer]

That depends, does it use SATA or IDE interface? Thin grey(usually) strip or a small usually red or black cable?

I think I'm going to "gut out" my HP a620n after moving all the files I want to keep from the a620n over to the a1240n...since the 1240 is a decent computer for browsing or letting my wife paying games; such as Frogger...but useless for REAL gaming purposes.

That would mean that the hard drive I have from the a620n is: 160 GB Ultra DMA @ 7200 rpm.
Actually here are the full specs on the HP page: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&cc=ca&docname=c00189255

I 'm thinking without opening the cover that being older its a IDE/UDMA hard drive...not a newer style SATA.

I just found this HP page: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&cc=us&product=424215&docname=bph03429

that discusses replacing a IDE with a SATA on the a620n. It states that "The most compatible drives are IDE, followed by Ultra-IDE (EIDE), and then Serial ATA (SATA)"

...so I need to go downstairs and pull the cover before I go any further. Off to do that right now.

 

[OldtimeGamer]

I finally got the chance to check on the hard drive. The one I have in my a620n is a: Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 160GB,
model ST3160021A. According to the specs, the interface is:

Interface ATA/ATAPI-6, ATA/ATAPI-7, DMA/ATA-100 (Ultra)

Product Identifiers
Brand Seagate
Model Barracuda 7200.7
MPN ST3160021A
UPC 030000070123, 683728093716

Key Features
Enclosure Internal
Capacity 160 GB
Buffer Size 2 MB
Hard Drive Type HDD (Hard Disk Drive)
Spindle Speed 7200 RPM
Interface ATA/ATAPI-6, ATA/ATAPI-7, DMA/ATA-100 (Ultra)
Designation Desktop Computer

Technical Features
Platform PC
External Data Transfer Rate 100 Mbps
Internal Data Transfer Rate 85.38 Mbit/s
Form Factor 3.5" x 1/3H (Low Profile)
Seek Time 11.5 ms
Sound Emission 25 dB

Dimensions
Height 1.03 in.
Width 4 in.
Depth 5.79 in.
Weight 1.4 lbs

 

[Novuake]

I finally got the chance to check on the hard drive. The one I have in my a620n is a: Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 160GB,
model ST3160021A. According to the specs, the interface is:

Interface ATA/ATAPI-6, ATA/ATAPI-7, DMA/ATA-100 (Ultra)

Product Identifiers
Brand Seagate
Model Barracuda 7200.7
MPN ST3160021A
UPC 030000070123, 683728093716

Key Features
Enclosure Internal
Capacity 160 GB
Buffer Size 2 MB
Hard Drive Type HDD (Hard Disk Drive)
Spindle Speed 7200 RPM
Interface ATA/ATAPI-6, ATA/ATAPI-7, DMA/ATA-100 (Ultra)
Designation Desktop Computer

Technical Features
Platform PC
External Data Transfer Rate 100 Mbps
Internal Data Transfer Rate 85.38 Mbit/s
Form Factor 3.5" x 1/3H (Low Profile)
Seek Time 11.5 ms
Sound Emission 25 dB

Dimensions
Height 1.03 in.
Width 4 in.
Depth 5.79 in.
Weight 1.4 lbs

Damn its an IDE drive. You will have to replace it.

 

[OldtimeGamer]

I was just reading on the difference between IDE and SATA and saw mine has the Ribbon-like connection...figures that's going to have to go too.

So...next question is, where do we go with a hard drive?

A game like TERA will claim around 90,000 KB alone... ( at least I think that statement is correct)

I should have started this tread in a section called "need to build a whole new gaming system from scratch."

Actually it look like TERA is more 20GB or so for the download ....I had to look it up online. My former size assumption was just the installer.

 

[nukemaster]

On the plus side even basic 7200 rpm drives today are MUCH faster.

 

[Novuake]

I was just reading on the difference between IDE and SATA and saw mine has the Ribbon-like connection...figures that's going to have to go too.

So...next question is, where do we go with a hard drive?

A game like TERA will claim around 90,000 KB alone... ( at least I think that statement is correct)

I should have started this tread in a section called "need to build a whole new gaming system from scratch."

Well once again it depends on what you want to spend. 2000GB drives are the cheapest per gig. But a 1000GB is a good buy, lower than that and you start paying WAAAAYYYY to much per gig.

 

[OldtimeGamer]

I'm thinking that I wouldn't need anything more than 400 or maybe 500GB and would like to stay under $50 if possible. At least I don't think I need more than that.

I'm currently looking at PCPartPicker, based on the parts that Iceclock came up with yesterday: http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/internal-hard-drive/#sort=d6



I'm leaning to going with the following combination:

re-use my current power supply -----ANTEC 400W HCG-400 GAMER power supply
Motherboard---Asus F2A55-M/CSM
AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor
Kingston HyperX 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
SAPPHIRE 100358L Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 CrossFireX Support Video Card


UPDATED ---So when it comes to Hard Drive interface....I would only be looking within these options?

SATA 6 Gb/s ---I just saw that the Motherboard---Asus F2A55-M/CSM supports---

SATA: 6x SATA2 Ports, Support RAID 0, 1, 10, JBOD

 

[Novuake]

500GB -
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st500dm002

1TB -
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st1000dm003

Less than 20% difference for double the capacity. But ok.

 

[OldtimeGamer]

500GB -
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st500dm002

1TB -
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st1000dm003

Less than 20% difference for double the capacity. But ok.

You know ...I recently bought one of those 1TB Seagate Backup Plus Black External Portable 1 tb STBU1000100 Hard Drives for about $70.00

My thought process was it costs a little more but I'd never fill it up. I bought it to back up one of my wife's work computers in case of a crash.