UD2 or UD4 - also DFI

[nai02]

Two questions which relate.

First is whether there is any info on whether DFI will come out with an M-ATX LGA1156 board. They have an ATX and an ITX but no M-ATX so far. If they are dcoming out with one then I would like to consider it.

Second is a comparison of the GA-P55M-UD2 and the GA-P55M-UD4 M-ATX boards. I have both of them on my short list but I am wondering if anyone has a good opinion on whether the UD4 is worth the 50% higher price than the UD2. From what I have read they both do very well and are highly rated but I have not been able to find any review that compares the two of them and that is what I am looking for.

I already have my memory picked out. I am currently torn between the I5/750 and the I7/860 but am tending toward the I5/750 for right now. It overclocks well and does all the things I am looking for. That leaves me to choose the mobo. Lots of choices out there right now and the prices are getting reasonable. While I might like the ASUS Maximus III Gene I don't see myself going for that as I would probably go with the I7/920 and the LGA1336 before I would do that.

 

[bilbat]

Have no clue about DFI, but this:

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_ComparisonSheet.aspx?ProductID=3287,3166

may help...

 

[nai02]

Thanks. Judging by that the major differences are that the UD4 has a newer audio setup and a better layout of the graphic cards if you have multiple graphic cards and that is about all. Looks like the UD2 is a real bargain by comparison. And the reviews for it all look pretty good as well.

The ones I have seen mostly compare the UD2 M-Atx to the ATX mobos and it beats them on the tests about half the time or better and at 2/3 the price. Unless DFI comes out with a real winner or I find a big discount on the ASUS Maximus III Gene (currently twice the price of the UD2) I may have found my mobo.

 

[ekoostik]

The UD2 is a great board if it's got enough expansion slots for your taste. With the UD4 you're paying for CF/SLI certification - and the license fee that goes to Nvidia for that "privilege".

What RAM are you getting?

 

[nai02]

I have had really good luck with Mushkin memory so I will probably stick with that. The one I am looking at is
996782 - 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800 7-9-7-24 Blackline

or


996778 - 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800 9-9-9-24 Blackline

Both were recommended by the Mushkin people. Both have also been used heavily with the 1156 chipsets.

 

[bilbat]

I'd go for the lowest latency you can afford, regardless of speed - some time back, I put together a little tool (the prices are months old, so, certainly no longer pertinent):

It 'looks at' the listed latency at whatever claimed speed, converts it to 'likely latency' at 1066 in the 'adjusted' columns, and then, in the LV (latency value) column, 'weights' the average latency for 'bang for the buck'; notice that the entire 'spread' of average latency is 4.2 counts, and the median value, 8.1 is already reached by the fourth item, the $140 F3-12800CL8T-6GBRM - at that point you are paying $15 more (12%) to get to half the available range, but to get to the other half, the price differential rises to more than double the cost of the base entry (a whopping 108% increase!)

If you'd like the Excel file itself, to 'play' with, there's a copy here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?yizmaza3kaz
note: the little thingie in the lower right corner is just for my convenience in 'averaging' NewEgg review listings; I don't place too much credence in them, as the vast majority of review posters there seem to be dumber than driveway gravel...

 

[bilbat]

Oh - and don't be put off by the fact that it's all G.Skill; one of the very first pieces of 'wisdom' that was passed along to me back when I started doing this was that GBs love mushkin memory, and will boot right up for it - it's just that at that point in time, mushkin was pretty pricey, I took a risk on some G.Skill (which was also highly spoken of), have used a bunch of it in a bunch of GB boards, walked a sizeable number of people here through OCs with it, and it's never let me down yet...

 

[nai02]

G Skill Rip Jaw was the other one I was looking at. A lot of the people using P55 boards seem to be using that one. It is just that I have had such good luck with Mushkin that I came here first. I am on my 3rd set with no problems at all yet and Sean is a great resource to get pointers from.

Your excel file came up just great on my Open Office Spreadsheet and worked just fine. Very neat idea. Very helpful. I used that to link to (where else) NewEgg to get info from them.

 

[ekoostik]

bilbat's given you lots of good info. Only thing I want to add - if you go with an i5 750, it cannot run RAM faster than 1333 unless you OC your CPU. The i7 8xx cannot run faster than 1600 without OCing. If you're not OCing there can still be valid reason for getting RAM faster than what your CPU will allow it to run at. For example, sometime when running RAM at lower than it's rated frequency you can tighten the timings or lower the voltages. Also you may find that 1600 rated RAM is cheaper than otherwise similar 1333 RAM. I've run into folks who bought 2000 MHz RAM expecting it to run at that frequency with their i5 750 at stock. So that's my word of warning.

The increased frequencies provide very marginal benefits outside of benchmarks anyway. As bilbat said, go for the lowest latency you can afford, regardless of speed.

 

[nai02]

And if I spring for the I7/860? I have seen some good prices on that one that are worth following up on. Just hope they don't reset the price before I can get there. If I can get this CPU at the price I have seen advertised, then I will be good to go. We'll have to see what happens.

 

[ekoostik]

Are you talking about the MicroCenter sale price? Apparently this week they're selling the i7 860 for $199.99 if you can pick one up from the store. The email I received said the sale runs this week, Monday - Friday.

As I mentioned, the max frequency you can run at without OCing on an i7 860 is 1600 MHz. But as has been suggested a couple times you want to push for lower timings, the frequencies differences are less important. Here's a couple articles you may find helpful:

Tom's has an article on the P55 that does a comparison at different speeds and timings: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-870-1156,2482.html

They also did a review of value RAM, lower rated frequency but put to the test: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ddr3-4gb-p55,2462.html

 

[nai02]

That is the sale. I am hoping that it lasts until the end of the month when I will be in a position to pick one up. Found the UD2 for sale for the mid 90's so I picked that up and then found the sale on the i7 860 after I had already bought the UD2. I had emailed DFI a couple of weeks ago and got no response from them at the national level and at the corporate level so I guess that one is a write-off. Given the slight differences between the UD2 and the UD4 and that the differences are nothing that affects anything I care about I decided the UD2 was the way to go. If I can get that 860, that would be my choice there since the 750 is on sale for only $20 less at MicroCenter. With that little difference the choice almost makes itself. When the difference is almost $100 the choice is a little more cloudy. When the difference is $20 then the choice is obvious.

Thanks for the link to the reviews. I will be looking into those right away. Looks like things are really coming together now and I will be able to bring this off a month or 2 before I thought I would.

I notice that you have a 450 watt PSU. Any problems with that to the extent that you might have to upgrade the PSU? I have a 500 watt PSU in my current case and I was hoping to keep that. I will try it for now but might look into upgrading if I have borderline problems. The rest of it looks pretty comparable. I have an overclocked ASUS 9600GT card (overclocked by ASUS) and an LG 20" LCD monitor (1680x1050) and 2 hard drives (250GB and 500GB).

Any comments on whether the LGA775 CPU cooler will work with the UD2. A couple of the reviews I read said that the 775 coolers will work with the Gigabyte board. That would be a plus since I have a good one there (a Zalman) and my current system rarely goes over 40 degrees centigrade. If I can keep that that would be another win-win.

 

[ekoostik]

I would be surprised if the sale lasted til the end of the month. The email I got indicate it will be over on Friday. They had previously sold the i7 860 for $230 so that's what I would guess it will return to, although they have been playing with their prices recently. And who knows, maybe they'll have another sale sometime soon.

Haven't had any problems with my 450W PSU. But I don't tend to do anything that heavy graphics wise. That is, my HD 4670 gets me by just fine. I don't plan on upgrading my GPU anytime soon or I might've gone with a 500-550W, and since I won't CF I saw no need to look any higher.

I also tend to think most people over-buy on PSU watt ratings and under-buy on the quality of the PSU. It seems like graphics cards and CPUs alike are trending towards requiring less power, although I'm not in the prediction game. Every new release is likely to change the scenery.

At full load I think the max I've pulled is 180W, measured at the wall with a Kill-A-Watt. Again, I know my GPU is anemic compared to some.

The cooler will only work if Zalman has released a new bracket to fit socket 1156 boards. And, of course, you'll have to get your hands on the new bracket.

 

[nai02]

Just a note from the people who make my current power supply which came with my case. I contacted them about the viability of the power supplyu and this is what I got back from them:

If you are uncertain if the power supply can handle the components in your system, I recommend going to the following Web site: http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp. Just select the option for each piece of hardware that you are running and then hit the "Calculate" button. If the recommended Wattage is close to or over the 500W provided by the PSU then I would recommend looking at getting a more powerful PSU. As far as upgrading to a higher Wattage unit, you should be able to fit up to a standard size (in dimension) power supply without any problem.

I went to that site and my total was 304 watts. Since I currently have 500 watts that should be good. The recommendation from the website was that if I were to use the computer 24/7 then add 20-30% to the requirement and if I were to plan on keeping the PSU for a long time then add 10-20% to the requirement. Even adding 30% I still have 25% of total power in hand so that looks as if I will be good on that one. That is one blessing as that saves a bunch of money.

I have an email into Zalman to ask about the viability of using it on 1156 boards. It looks from the website as if it will work though. I will just have to see what they come up with.

Things look as if they are really coming together now. I am very pleased.

 

[nai02]

Just about all set. I am getting my mobo and memory tomorrow (if Fedex delivers tomorrow due to the snow that is still out there). The I7 860 I will be getting by Thursday. Then I will be all set. I found that the CPU cooler I had for my socket 775 CPU will also work with the 1156 socket CPU as well so I can keep that. My PSU is more than enough to handle the setup and I already have a case and hard drives and the rest of the equipment. I should be up and running by the weekend (fingers crossed).

Thanks to all for you help. Much appreciated.