UNDERWHELMED BY THE LOGITECH Z5500 SPEAKERS

[Clob]

Any 5.1 amp/reciever that can power 5 speakers will do surround. Assuming it has 5.1 inputs.

The ' .1 ' is simply a LFE or a subwoofer line that is crossed over.

Honestly, I prefer the natural rolloff of the Insignia speakers over all other Pc speakr subwoofers. So if your delema is loosing a subwoofer, then, honestly, is no loss 8)



My Klipsch Ultra 5.1 sub had dual 8" drivers, and the where good down to 30hz, and had some output at 25hz. The problem was the bass was muddy and the drivers bottomed out easyly at high volumes.

Other subs from Creative, Cambridge, Logitech sound just as bad.

 

[astrallite]

2.1 can do surround huh. Surround mono?

 

[Clob]

I was listening to an HT podcast lately (htguys.com), and they where talking about poor sound quality recordings. They where talking about how a majority of people dont care about how their sound is presented.

Maybe you just dont care for sound quality. I do.

 

[astrallite]

I think you're just setting the bar very high, you can't beat logitech for the price

Okay, maybe you are on the young side, but what you just said is a contradiction. I'm guessing when you are older you'll realize what you just said makes no sense.

 

[Clob]

I'm waiting on ATI's DX10 card to come out, and then Ill make my purchase.

Justifying cost is a personal issue.

 

[astrallite]

Who said $350? Who said it wasn't 5.1? Not needing to mention the retail price of the Z-5500s is $399, the Insignia 5.1 setup easily costs the same as the Z-5500s. Not $350.

Hey--you love your Logitechs--that's great. I'm not here to convince you otherwise, and won't bother either. I was responding to the OP of this post.

 

[xsamitt]

Creative has another division called M-Audio.They sell better sounds cars and speakers than their creative brand.At least thats the story/impression I've gotten.Of course your gonna pay for that better gear.

 

[davidinsarasota]

Got my GTS fairly early in the game when it started to become clear that nVidia had a winner on their hands, ie. so few problems such good performance. Hoping for some DX 10 games soon. Still on the fence about X-fi though.

 

[astrallite]

Creative has another division called M-Audio.They sell better sounds cars and speakers than their creative brand.At least thats the story/impression I've gotten.Of course your gonna pay for that better gear.

M-Audio is an American based company that's actually a competitor of the Singapore-based Creative, rather than being owned or a part of Creative.

M-Audio sells professional and consumer audio gear (mainly); Creative has always catered to the PC market.

You may be confusing M-Audio with Cambridge Soundworks, which Creative bought out in 1997. Cambridge Soundworks used to produce PC speakers under the Megaworks label (though no longer). Creative has been shutting down CS divisions from lack of profits for the last couple of years. CS really lacks an identity, and though I don't want to be harsh, they don't really offer anything special or even above-average value (except maybe their clock radios).

 

[eckre]

just leave the POS world of computer speakers get yourself a home theater receiver with toshlink in and some high quality stereo speakers, rip your crap in FLAC format and you'll do more for your sound than any soundcard will ever do.

 

[bberson]

Not to brag either, but, just as an example of what "really" good research can do, but for around $240 ($100 for the speakers, $120 for the T-amps +the AC power supply [or a cheap receiver], $20 for speaker wire) you can set up a 5.1 system with Insignia NSB-2111s and three Sonic T-amps. Those bookshelves have 1" silk tweeters and 6.5" kevlar mids. That's ~630% more surface radiating area than the Logitech Z-5500s and significantly better driver materials and enclosure material.

To be fair in your price comparison, you need to include a Dolby/THX decoder in your Insignia/Sonic setup...


-Brad

 

[astrallite]

Not to brag either, but, just as an example of what "really" good research can do, but for around $240 ($100 for the speakers, $120 for the T-amps +the AC power supply [or a cheap receiver], $20 for speaker wire) you can set up a 5.1 system with Insignia NSB-2111s and three Sonic T-amps. Those bookshelves have 1" silk tweeters and 6.5" kevlar mids. That's ~630% more surface radiating area than the Logitech Z-5500s and significantly better driver materials and enclosure material.

To be fair in your price comparison, you need to include a Dolby/THX decoder in your Insignia/Sonic setup...


-Brad

One, assuming the owner does not have a sound card.

Two, assuming the owner actually has DVD player software that allows surround playback.

Three, assuming they aren't running Vista.

 

[bberson]

Not to brag either, but, just as an example of what "really" good research can do, but for around $240 ($100 for the speakers, $120 for the T-amps +the AC power supply [or a cheap receiver], $20 for speaker wire) you can set up a 5.1 system with Insignia NSB-2111s and three Sonic T-amps. Those bookshelves have 1" silk tweeters and 6.5" kevlar mids. That's ~630% more surface radiating area than the Logitech Z-5500s and significantly better driver materials and enclosure material.

To be fair in your price comparison, you need to include a Dolby/THX decoder in your Insignia/Sonic setup...
One, assuming the owner does not have a sound card.
Two, assuming the owner actually has DVD player software that allows surround playback.
Three, assuming they aren't running Vista.
I'm not sure what you're trying to answer or defend here.

You compared the relative value of a handful of speakers and a few amps to an integrated solution with remote control, built-in digital sound decoders, and digital inputs. I was being nice by only insisting that you include a decoder in your value comparison.

As for your assumptions, none of which have anything to do with the comparison itself, not all sound cards are alike and not all of them do their own decoding, and DVDs are not the only source of surround encoding.

I'll admit you lost me on the Vista thing though. I'm waiting for SP1 before I even consider touching it, so feel free to educate me on that tangent...

-Brad

 

[astrallite]

I'm not sure what you're trying to answer or defend here.

You compared the relative value of a handful of speakers and a few amps to an integrated solution with remote control, built-in digital sound decoders, and digital inputs. I was being nice by only insisting that you include a decoder in your value comparison.

No, you are right. Perhaps a better comparison would be the cost of a component setup with a sound card (say the $20 Chaintech AV-710) vs the Logitech Z-5500s. Either way we can keep it well under the retail cost of the Z-5500s and very close to the average online cost.

As for your assumptions, none of which have anything to do with the comparison itself, not all sound cards are alike and not all of them do their own decoding, and DVDs are not the only source of surround encoding.

You mean like stand alone AC3 tracks? These can be decoded by freeware codecs. DVD player software can decode encoded audio files of the DD/DTS variety. Can you give an example of something only the Logitech Z-5500s can decode that a soundcard and free DVD software can't do?

I'll admit you lost me on the Vista thing though. I'm waiting for SP1 before I even consider touching it, so feel free to educate me on that tangent...
-Brad

Vista has no support for SPDIF bypass other than pure stereo PCM. It's on Microsoft's help page.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Im thinking he means that eax doesnt work in Vista, which is one more reason to have your sound pumped thru your gpu

 

[bberson]

You mean like stand alone AC3 tracks? These can be decoded by freeware codecs. DVD player software can decode encoded audio files of the DD/DTS variety. Can you give an example of something only the Logitech Z-5500s can decode that a soundcard and free DVD software can't do?

Since I'm admittedly a literal pain in the @$$, key word being literal, let's not say "only the Logitech Z-5500s", but broaden the scope to categorically to "solutions with integrated digital decoders".

Anyway, I was thinking of the miserable piece of $#!+ Gigabyte motherboard I just decommissioned (good bloody riddance), whose on-board audio supported 5.1 and had optical/coax SPDIF outputs but lacked sufficient line-level output connections to individually support a 5.1 solution.

Freeware can't make extra line-level outputs appear ;-).

Aside of some teething problems that Logitech quickly addressed, I've not been unhappy with the Logitech Z-680 system I bought a few years ago. And while it's nice to chase audiophile pretenses, all I have to do is feed my MP3s into my big ol' receiver, etc. to fully discover the sonic horror that is MPEG compression applied to music. Yech.

Vista has no support for SPDIF bypass other than pure stereo PCM. It's on Microsoft's help page.

Ahh, now that you mention it I recall hearing about that. Yet another reason to run away from "Windows Fister". Thanks. I wonder if that limitation also applies to things like game that support 3D sound, or just DVDs, etc. Do you know off-hand?

-Brad

 

[Clob]

Why would it have to be integrated? There are other stand alone decoders.

 

[bberson]

Why would it have to be integrated? There are other stand alone decoders.

True. Either way would be fine.

.

 

[astrallite]

I don't really mind mp3 compressed music--to me it's close enough, if well encoded. TBH, previous "audiophile" challenges have shown that in blind tests no one (often with stipulation of winning ~$10,000) have failed to tell apart well encoded mp3s and the original source. Doesn't mean you or I should like mp3s any more or less (that's clearly subjective, conscious or unconscious), but many of the complaints of mp3 quality I suspect fall on the poorly encoded type.

I understand you are talking about peripherals now (inputs). I mean I understand what you are trying to say, you want this to be apples to apples comparison, but what in this world is apples to apples? Everything is tradeoffs, and while I could do everything a Z-5500 has (more inputs--zone switches from Radioshack, etc), the difference is in the hassle.

If one is like the OP (underwhelmed by the speaker quality), then as an individual, he has chosen his priorities -- audio quality vs all-in-one convenience (or, what basically has to give up in his price range for what he wants). There is no such thing as an apples to apples comparison of any two unlike products because to force such a comparison would be unfair to one product or the other--there is no such thing as "better" in a vacuum with two unlike products. You have to take what they are and the situation they are in (why I mentioned sound card, Vista, other etc things) and compare their relative importance to the individual in question.

SPDIF bypass is an arcing statement--any encoded matieral will not be bypassed. It's not related or limited to 3D sound (not sure what you mean by that--it's not really a category of its own in this instance) or DVDs.

 

[bberson]

TBH, previous "audiophile" challenges have shown that in blind tests no one (often with stipulation of winning ~$10,000) have failed to tell apart well encoded mp3s and the original source.

Wish I could have participated - I could use the cash. Perhaps it's a matter of the source material's challenge.

I had a Dutch house-guest last year, a professional DJ, who following a discussion about tossing my collection of CDs and LPs promised he could tweak encoders sufficiently, so I handed him two DDD CDs to rip. One of harpsichord and another of church organ. He spent most of the night fiddling and in the morning we reviewed outcomes at bitrates between 128 and 256, using various encoders and various settings. We also used WAV files as the basis of comparison instead of the original source material, so that source routing would be exactly the same for all material.

I found 128 to be intolerable and while 256 wasn't terrible, the effect of encoding on the harpsichord produced a weird, difficult to describe effect on certain chords that made me want to grate my teeth, and there was no way to keep the really low registers on the organ from getting a bit lost.

I have to admit he did a pretty admirable job but it was easy to tell the difference, at least for me, and that's after the inevitable hearing loss that comes from thirty-plus years of riding NYC subways, riding loud motorcycles, and doing occasional FOH work.

OTOH I suspect most pop music isn't quite as difficult to encode, and the listeners, well...

SPDIF bypass is an arcing statement--any encoded matieral will not be bypassed. It's not related or limited to 3D sound (not sure what you mean by that--it's not really a category of its own in this instance) or DVDs.

Games like Half-Life, Diablo, FEAR, etc. that use EAX for surround sound via Direct-X (DirectSound?) 3D, are what I was concerned about.

-Brad

 

[astrallite]

Most of the DBX tests I have seen have been 320kbps vs CD. Can't say anything about the rest of those bitrates, but I personally don't ever encode anything below 320kbps mp3. If it's a good album I usually encode with FLAC.

Games like Half-Life, Diablo, FEAR, etc. that use EAX for surround sound via Direct-X (DirectSound?) 3D, are what I was concerned about.

-Brad

DirectX is the video API for Microsoft. DirectSound is their sound API (which Vista no longer uses).

EAX is a set of algorithms that include echo, reverb, and transitional (mixing of two area sounds) effects. Essentially you can think of it as an EQ meter. EAX will be applied to the sound if your sound card supports it. If you use SPDIF passthrough with Vista, you'll just get stereo + EAX. EAX and SPDIF passthrough have nothing to do with each other.

 

[bberson]

Most of the DBX tests I have seen have been 320kbps vs CD. Can't say anything about the rest of those bitrates, but I personally don't ever encode anything below 320kbps mp3. If it's a good album I usually encode with FLAC.

Now that you mention 320, I went back and checked and he did do an encode at 320. If you have an FTP drop or an email account that can handle a 23MB binary, I have a 5MB MP3 (192), 9MB MP3 (320) and a 40MB WAV for you if you're curious. Just PM me.

-Brad

 

[billdcat4]

Checking that link, the reviews weren't so good.

This one looks better based on the reviews, but I'm not really an expert in this area.

I would suggest checking some reviews to get an idea of what the community considers good/bad.

Maybe someone with more experience would be willing to suggest something.

I heard a lot of bad stuff about the Xfi Cards such as incompatibilities and crappy drivers.

Get this card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829127002
kickass w/ no known issues

i had one for a while, it upconverts everything to DTS and has optical output.

I watched a crappily compressed dvd rip, 700mb with a 128kb mp3 soundtrack and it was simply immersive. Superb. It doesnt support above EAX2.0, but noone actually needs that anyhow

get it, get it now

 

[billdcat4]

hmm, i think you'll find that i want more than EAX2. if you play an old game and actually see how limited 2 is, you'll see why it is nice to have 3 and above.

yea, if it works....

 

[Clob]

I just simply dont use EAX.