UNDERWHELMED BY THE LOGITECH Z5500 SPEAKERS

[Gary_Busey]

Why piano-based tracks? I'm just curious. I have the X-540's paired with an Audigy2 ZS and I love how my speakers and sub sound, and am still impressed when I listen to a song with a lot of bass.

 

[cheetsy]

i cannot see you and i do not know you, we only have words to communicate so watch how you use them.

Right fair enough, but surely you can see how derogatory your ' that statement you made is so backward it makes me laugh.' was.

That particular post was because someone else had decided to attack me with another such statement

"Also, I'd assume someone who listens to drum n bass would know a good sub when listening to one. Obviously I was wrong since a poster thinks the 10" logitech sub that farts out boom puts out great bass, especially in a genre that requires a fast responsive sub. Confused Different strokes for different folks i guess."

You cant voice any sort of opinion on these forums without some retard trying to make you look like a 12 year old who doesnt know what he is talking about.

 

[flasher702]

I use optical SPDIF link to my 4.1channel 100w/channel receiver to my speakers (a couple technics towers for front, a couple bag-end sub enclosures for center/sub, and a couple cheapies that need to be replaced for rear). 2x8" 1x10" 4x12" 1x15" = orgasmic. Also the technics have beutiful mids and highs.

IMHO there are 3 good options for playing audio off of a computer:
1. Headphones
2. Monitor-integrated speakers
3. A *real* sterio

none of this "computer speakers" stuff

 

[freshazzburu]

That particular post was because someone else had decided to attack me with another such statement

"Also, I'd assume someone who listens to drum n bass would know a good sub when listening to one. Obviously I was wrong since a poster thinks the 10" logitech sub that farts out boom puts out great bass, especially in a genre that requires a fast responsive sub. Confused Different strokes for different folks i guess."

Yes, that was my post, but I also followed it up with another post:

Like I said earlier, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so I'll leave the argument about that sub's qualities to a halt here in this post. Enjoy your system.

I realized, not everyone is an audiophile which is why i posted my last comment.



FWIW: My computer set up for Movies/Audio utilizes a set of Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 speakers. This only serves as a back up for when the real h-t/audio set up in the living room is not available. IMHO, these speakers are pretty accurate for the $350 I paid - some have even upgraded the satellites to the RSX-3/4 reference models from Klipsch with great success. I also have a set of z680 logitech speaker; although the sub seems to produce "more" bass at certain frequencies, it is very sloppy when compared to the sub on my Klipsch.

My $0.02 and only my opinion.

 

[Clob]

Ok, for a start, I said 200 pounds, not dollars, thats $400, and I'm sure he can do better than the rather lame ass response he offered. Ok the XFi might not be the best, but it's a damn sight better than onboard.

FYI, I use the SPDIF connection into my reciever. Something your Xfi cant do.

[/u]

 

[flasher702]

Ok, for a start, I said 200 pounds, not dollars, thats $400, and I'm sure he can do better than the rather lame ass response he offered. Ok the XFi might not be the best, but it's a damn sight better than onboard.

FYI, I use the SPDIF connection into my reciever. Something your Xfi cant do.

[/u]

Yeah, no optical SPDIF and they use PCI. Why would I spend +$100 on an expansion card build on obsolete technology? A year from now I won't even be able to put it into a new computer. Outdated interface, outdated output, outdated input.

I went optical SPDIF a few months ago and I'm never going back. Funny that it seems to preclude using a nice desktop add-in sound card. I guess I'll stick with integrated.

 

[eric54]

SPDIF is limited to 2channels of audio. Good use of 2 speakers, waste for 5.1. My good ole xfi can distribute sound to each channel independantly. Oh, and did you know sound is analog? So you're going from digital to digital to analog, so in the end you're in the same spot as me. As far as i'm concerned sound cards should enhance gaming and music, but you cant expect the quality you'd get from a 15000+ sound system (okay, prolly alot less, but the xfi with the 5500 is less than 500.00).

Feel free to use the SPDIF all you want, but if you have 5.1 surround sound speakers its a total and complete waste. Next time before you recommend something describe the reasoning behind it, such as, "I use SPDIF beacause I only use 2 speakers anyway and it offers the best connection possible".

 

[Clob]

SPDIF is limited to 2channels of audio. Good use of 2 speakers, waste for 5.1. My good ole xfi can distribute sound to each channel independantly. Oh, and did you know sound is analog? So you're going from digital to digital to analog, so in the end you're in the same spot as me. As far as i'm concerned sound cards should enhance gaming and music, but you cant expect the quality you'd get from a 15000+ sound system (okay, prolly alot less, but the xfi with the 5500 is less than 500.00).

Feel free to use the SPDIF all you want, but if you have 5.1 surround sound speakers its a total and complete waste. Next time before you recommend something describe the reasoning behind it, such as, "I use SPDIF beacause I only use 2 speakers anyway and it offers the best connection possible".

The whole object of a DAC is to leave little to no impact on the audio source in its conversion from digital to analog. Once you start adding in CMSS, EAX, and that other garbage, you tear quality away from the original sound track. This is very obvious if your sample is recorded in lossless formats.

My optical connection also works in passthrough mode and my reciever does see DD 5.1. :roll:

But so what if you have a $100 sound card. Whats the point if it plays though speakers that are assembled with <$100 of parts? Sounds silly to me (excuse the pun).

 

[flasher702]

SPDIF is limited to 2channels of audio. Good use of 2 speakers, waste for 5.1. My good ole xfi can distribute sound to each channel independantly. Oh, and did you know sound is analog? So you're going from digital to digital to analog, so in the end you're in the same spot as me. As far as i'm concerned sound cards should enhance gaming and music, but you cant expect the quality you'd get from a 15000+ sound system (okay, prolly alot less, but the xfi with the 5500 is less than 500.00).

Feel free to use the SPDIF all you want, but if you have 5.1 surround sound speakers its a total and complete waste. Next time before you recommend something describe the reasoning behind it, such as, "I use SPDIF beacause I only use 2 speakers anyway and it offers the best connection possible".

*cough cough choke*
2 channels?

IEC60958 (The S/PDIF) can carry normal audio and IEC61937 datastreams. IEC61937 datastreams can contain multichannel sound like MPEG2, AC3 or DTS.

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/audio/spdif.html

I use mine with my 4.1channel surround sound receiver... unless I've been imagining surround sound.

And yes, I'm going from digital, to digital and arriving at the amplifier 100% interference free where it is is amplified without interference. You're converting it to analogue inside an EMI-filled computer chassis, amplifying it and transmitting across an open room via un-shielded copper wires (aka: antennas) to be re-amplified in analogue along with any interference picked up along the way.

I accidentally fried my last amp with a crappy analogue signal wire while I was trying to track down where all the interference was coming from so I bought a new receiver with optical spdif in.

I think the stuff I'm actually using cost ~$2k but you could build something slightly better for around $1600 or something equally decent for $1200 (mine was kinda pieced together from random stuff over the years and I've got a couple really cheap speakers mixed in with stuff that isn't being fully utilized). You might loose a little sound quality but you could also definitely get a LOT more DB than a computer speaker system for under $300 and you could then swap out components as you saw fit. So yeah, it's not exactly cheap, but I thought I'd narrow you in a bit closer than $15000 😉

 

[eric54]

Well I expected to be flamed, I’m glad it’s been kept tasteful 😛 Overall, my point is that you get what you pay for, and the vast majority feels it is worth every penny. The audio world is pretty ridiculous, it’s not unusual for someone to pay upwards of a 100,000USD on a premium setup, and in fact I’ll say that 15,000 low for an "audiophile" setup. Anyways, I’m not bragging about what I have, I’m simply stating that it does what I want at a very acceptable level (you just can’t beat the xfi in games), comparing computer speakers to anything else than computer speakers is like comparing an SUV to a sports car in handling. Both have different purposes sharing the same basic concept. Finally, if less than 500.00 for a complete computer surround sound setup is not a good deal I'd like to know where you buy your stuff. My condescending facetious demeanor was rude, but my points are valid and hold ground despite the current rebuttals.

 

[flasher702]

4x120w 2-way 80hz-50khz speakers (kinda picked these at random but they would work. Four identical speakers will give best results for surround sound) $75
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=70204&c=1

1x100w 55hz-20khz speaker 59.99
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=138632

5.1channel receiver (i have one of these, it's ok) $139.99
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=108452

buy a "toslink" cable on the internet for like $5 (instead of buying an "optical SPDIF cable" from the "audio section" of just about any store brick or online where they charge $30)

Some speaker wire $20

use the optcial spdif port on your computer (you did get one, right?)

bam! 500watt 5.1channel interference-free surround sound system for your computer for 299.98 plus tax and/or shipping. Not exactly fancy but it is possible and gives a lot more flexibility for different applications and future upgrades.

 

[astrallite]

Well I expected to be flamed, I’m glad it’s been kept tasteful 😛 Overall, my point is that you get what you pay for, and the vast majority feels it is worth every penny. The audio world is pretty ridiculous, it’s not unusual for someone to pay upwards of a 100,000USD on a premium setup, and in fact I’ll say that 15,000 low for an "audiophile" setup.

Well, I'm not sure if that was ever true, and probably never will be--depending on what you mean by audiophile. The cutting edge has always been at the consumer price bracket, where big box companies reinvest profits in R&D. The kind of price bracket you are talking about is in mystique products--your average designer in this price range doesn't have a degree in audio related fields, they are usually building based on "by the ear tweaking" and "family company design legacy". That's true of any (non electronic/automobile) product in this price range--they are selling you the mystique of a hand-made product. If this is what you mean by "audiophile", then you are talking about pedigree products that tend to measure worse than mass market goods and tends to be picked last in DBX tests. It's just like a Ferarri--beautiful, but you aren't going to beat any well designed 60-100k cars on a race track.

Generally what I've seen is beyond $2k/speaker pair for traditional speakers, the measurable audio performance starts to taper off significantly. In fact aside from rising costs of marketing pedigree and decor wrapping, you usually see a *decline* in quality of parts used expressly because companies in this price range are preying on people who *have* to buy expensive goods, whether it's the best or not. This is the snake and oil price range. Aside from non-conventional designs or very expensive to manufacture drivers (B&W diamond, or Usher beryllium comes to mind), mostly I've seen is "voodoo crap" from the so-called audiophile range, "designed by guys without college degrees", as Honda Inc. once put it very bluntly.

Anyways, I’m not bragging about what I have

You haven't even said what you have, lol...

I’m simply stating that it does what I want at a very acceptable level (you just can’t beat the xfi in games), comparing computer speakers to anything else than computer speakers is like comparing an SUV to a sports car in handling. Both have different purposes sharing the same basic concept. Finally, if less than 500.00 for a complete computer surround sound setup is not a good deal I'd like to know where you buy your stuff. My condescending facetious demeanor was rude, but my points are valid and hold ground despite the current rebuttals.

Your "SPDIF is limited to 2-channels of audio" is only a contingently true statement which happens to be false under most situations. SPDIF can match any multichannel output an analog soundcard can except for two things--gaming audio (which is contingent that the game does not have SPDIF surround output--the most important games, shooters, usually have DD5.1 SPDIF output as available options)--and in DVD-A--although this is only due to the DCMA, has nothing to do with hardware limitations, and can be circumvented.

 

[eric54]

About the only thing i can say is that my sig says what i have. Otherwise, nicely put. I don't have space for a home theatre setup on my computer, computer speakers tend to be smaller and more space conservative which will limit the size of the drivers and overall package and sound quality significantly. I never said the z-5500 were better than a home theatre setup, I meant they were great for what they are designed for; computer speakers. I don't think many would disagree with that statement, nor would I disagree that a home theatre setup would be better. However, I digress that they really shouldnt be compared against each other, but if you happen to choose the latter as your setup its your prerogative and will very likely net you a superior listening experience.

It's good to know toslink can provide surround sound as I had been under the impression it was limited to 2channel.

 

[flasher702]

"toslink" is actually just the cable (well, more specifically it's the connector at the ends of the cable but obviously there's going to be some kind of optical conductor in between them and the differences between those conductors is a bit beyond this topic). You can send any optical protocol you want over it. I think the first major use of toslink was for fibre channel (which they don't use anymore since toslink is a bit bulky).

 

[davidinsarasota]

So where are we now? SPDIF will or will not allow me to utilize my 5.1 Z5500's. I keep checking the local BB for an "open package" deal on a 6' SPDIF cord.

I seem to be using my pc sound for listening to ripped cd's mostly these days. I race GTR2, and will probably get a DX10 FPS game or two when they come out.

 

[bberson]

"toslink" is actually just the cable (well, more specifically it's the connector at the ends of the cable but obviously there's going to be some kind of optical conductor in between them and the differences between those conductors is a bit beyond this topic). You can send any optical protocol you want over it. I think the first major use of toslink was for fibre channel (which they don't use anymore since toslink is a bit bulky).

toslink and spdif have become somewhat interchangeable terms.

fiber channel is yet another type of connector however.

 

[flasher702]

How cheap are you expecting to get a toslink cable for??? Did you try doing a search for toslink at pricegrabber.com or something like I said? There are 27 of them on there for <$5 before shipping. I don't think you're going to do much better than that unless you buy a large quantity of them.

Source Inputs:

* Digital optical for DVD or CD players, PlayStation®2, Xbox®**
* Digital coaxial for DVD or CD players or PC sound cards (requires coaxial cable, sold separately)

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2177,CONTENTID=9486#Specifications

...that's worded somewhat cryptically but if it can do surround sound for your DVD player and xbox it should work fine with your computer too.

 

[flasher702]

"toslink" is actually just the cable (well, more specifically it's the connector at the ends of the cable but obviously there's going to be some kind of optical conductor in between them and the differences between those conductors is a bit beyond this topic). You can send any optical protocol you want over it. I think the first major use of toslink was for fibre channel (which they don't use anymore since toslink is a bit bulky).

toslink and spdif have become somewhat interchangeable terms.

fiber channel is yet another type of connector however.

Modern fibre optics do use a different kind of connector (LC to plug into an SFP). They used to use a pair of toslink (to plug into a gbic). Fibre channel isn't a connector, it's a network protocol. In much the same way SPDIF runs just fun over toslink or coax cables. Just because people who don't know the difference use them interchangeably doesn't mean they are interchangeable. The Toshiba Optical Link connector was around long before SPDIF.

I have gbic and sfp in the same room as me right now 😉 Oh, and before you ask: no, I have no idea what LC or GBIC stand for. xD SFP is "small form plugable".

 

[eric54]

Honestly I was just being lazy and didnt want to look up the SPDIF because at the moment i couldnt recall the order the spdif letter go in, so I just said toslinc, I knew it was just the cord, but you got the idea...

 

[Trunkz_Jr]

I have these speakers and they are very awesome I use Sound Blaster 2 ZS and i havn't had a problem, their hooked up to my computer and my TV, i'm very happy with them. If you have the option, switch to "Stereo X2" by hitting the effect button, this is what I use, and it sounds the best, if I use just Stereo it doesn't sound as loud and clear, maybe this is the option you have it on?

 

[eric54]

Stereo x2 is just L and R channels, you have no center or "surround" effects with this mode. Any games will sound the same as a simple 2.1 setup, really the best setting the 6ch direct, that way the sound card can send L R C BL BR and bass, so you actually get surround sound. 6ch direct is the best overall option, though you may get more volume per speaker with stereo x2.

 

[davidinsarasota]

Stereo x2 is just L and R channels, you have no center or "surround" effects with this mode. Any games will sound the same as a simple 2.1 setup, really the best setting the 6ch direct, that way the sound card can send L R C BL BR and bass, so you actually get surround sound. 6ch direct is the best overall option, though you may get more volume per speaker with stereo x2.

May be so with games, but Trunkz is right about music sounding best in "Stereo X2" mode.

 

[freshazzburu]

4x120w 2-way 80hz-50khz speakers (kinda picked these at random but they would work. Four identical speakers will give best results for surround sound) $75
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=70204&c=1

1x100w 55hz-20khz speaker 59.99
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=138632

5.1channel receiver (i have one of these, it's ok) $139.99
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=108452

buy a "toslink" cable on the internet for like $5 (instead of buying an "optical SPDIF cable" from the "audio section" of just about any store brick or online where they charge $30)

Some speaker wire $20

use the optcial spdif port on your computer (you did get one, right?)

bam! 500watt 5.1channel interference-free surround sound system for your computer for 299.98 plus tax and/or shipping. Not exactly fancy but it is possible and gives a lot more flexibility for different applications and future upgrades.

I think you actually mean 5.0 channel. Your list did not include a sub, which would drive the cost up a lot more (for a decent one anyhow).

 

[eric54]

Cool, I don't have to made any rebuttels! +25 life points for me! :twisted:

 

[flasher702]

4x120w 2-way 80hz-50khz speakers (kinda picked these at random but they would work. Four identical speakers will give best results for surround sound) $75
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=70204&c=1

1x100w 55hz-20khz speaker 59.99
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=138632

5.1channel receiver (i have one of these, it's ok) $139.99
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=108452

buy a "toslink" cable on the internet for like $5 (instead of buying an "optical SPDIF cable" from the "audio section" of just about any store brick or online where they charge $30)

Some speaker wire $20

use the optcial spdif port on your computer (you did get one, right?)

bam! 500watt 5.1channel interference-free surround sound system for your computer for 299.98 plus tax and/or shipping. Not exactly fancy but it is possible and gives a lot more flexibility for different applications and future upgrades.

I think you actually mean 5.0 channel. Your list did not include a sub, which would drive the cost up a lot more (for a decent one anyhow).

uh, the second thing in the list actually has two subwoofers in it... Am I missing something? Bass effects should work with this setup, no?