Question Undetectable packet loss and micro-disconnections only on games and Discord, during certain times of the day ?

[Janeyxsdg]

Background information:

• I have an ethernet connection, and have been using one for 3 years.
• I have an NBN Hybrid Fibre Coaxial (HFC) connection
• I am with More Telecom
• I live in Melbourne, Australia
• I had never had a problem with my ethernet connection until now.

Ever since the 17th of January, I have been experiencing consistent disconnections around 7pm-11pm. I use Discord and often play games such as Lost Ark, Overwatch and League of Legends. These issues do NOT persist to Google searches, Youtube, Twitch.tv - I am unsure of other websites to check.
I had thought maybe it would fix itself? It has been 2 months now, so I am less hopeful that the problem will resolve itself.
It USED to be around 7pm-11pm every night even on weekends. In the last 2 weeks, it has persisted from 6pm-12am on weeknights. 2pm-12:30am on weekends.
These issues SEEM to persist to Wi-Fi on my phone - I do not play intensive games on my phone, but Youtube videos and Twitch streams are fine, but I will experience the exact same issues with Discord.
I have 3 others in the family who use the same connection. They have not experienced any issues, but none of them play games or use Discord.
My issues persist through a bridge test (connecting straight to my NBN box without the router).

Observations during this time:
Discord

• Everyone sounds choppy and robot-like, often cutting out.
• Others hear me perfectly fine when I talk.
• If someone is streaming, their stream is very laggy and the orange exclamation mark always appears "The stream you are viewing currently has reduced video or audio quality. This may be due to network conditions".
• If I stream a game, they see my stream perfectly fine, - no quality decrease, no latency. They often see me streaming my disconnections from games.
• If I use Discord on my phone using Wi-Fi I will experience the exact same problems.

Lost Ark
I understand this is not a very popular game so people might not know much about this one, but it is an MMO action role-playing game that uses Easy Anti Cheat (EAC).

• I will constantly disconnect from EAC, which often boots me out of the game if I experience too much packet loss/micro-disconnections. If EAC is not working, the game will not work.
• Often times my game will freeze for long periods of time (up to 1-2 minutes) but then everything with catch up in x4 speed.
• Sometimes my game freezes and I cannot see other characters/bosses move, but I can move my character and my inputs will go through in the game. Others can see my character move around the screen and I play with others telling me where the boss is and what its doing. It will then either disconnect me, or the game will catch up and I can continue.
• If I disconnect in a loading screen, the game will refuse to continue loading, and I will need to restart the game. I often spend hours just rebooting the game.
• My ping will generally show as the stable 203ms (as servers are in the US), however, on rare occasions it spikes to higher numbers.
• I can stream my games perfectly on Discord. I can stream myself without any quality decreases, even as I disconnect and rubber band in the game. Everyone can see me experiencing these disconnections in HD, no interruptions.

Overwatch and League of Legends

• My inputs will not go through when I press them, I am often sliding around the screen.
• My ping will show as stable in the game the whole time, even as I am (around 23ms for LOL and 35ms for Overwatch).
• Inputs will often be delayed and assets will rubber band into what is happening at present time.
• I will sometimes completely disconnect from the games.

Watching streams (Youtube and Twitch)

• no issues watching them live, little to no buffering
• [UPDATE] I had only tested Twitch for a few minutes, and it hadn't lagged or buffered while I was lagging elsewhere. After a more prolonged period of testing I have experienced more buffering and a stream quality decreases. I had not experienced problems with Youtube from my 1hr observation.

Speed tests and Ping tests
Back in January, I had called my ISP and they made me run a bunch of tests - speedtest.net, CMD ping test (ping www.google.com /t), bridge test straight to my NBN box:

• Speed tests are perfectly fine, even as I test it while I'm disconnecting from games
• There has been NO issues when I run a CMD test, it stays consistent around 9ms-17ms, very rarely it jumps to 30ms.
• Still have connection issues with the bridge test

Is it a problem with my ethernet cord? It only happens in certain hours of the day. Can a cord just malfunction during certain hours of the day?
Could I have a virus on my computer and my phone? Windows security has not detected anything, but is there something else I can use to check?
I am unsure how to diagnose my problems and have no proof or evidence to show my ISP. I called them over a period of a week back in January and they constantly told me to run the same tests and not doing anything about it as there doesn't seem to be anything wrong.
I would like advice on what else I can test and if I should be bothering my ISP, what do I tell them? Every time I have called them in the past, I have given them perfectly fine ping tests or speed tests that they analyse for 24hrs and tell me nothing is wrong.
My problem seems to be getting worse and I am growing increasingly frustrated.

 

[bill001g]

The difference between game traffic and web surfing is game traffic is constantly in real time sending and receiving traffic. A web page load the data and then does nothing. Things like netflix and youtube use buffers and download data in bursts. These other kinds of traffic if they get packet loss can re-transmit the data and you will not notice it because of things like buffers.

Time of day issues are almost always other peoples usage both inside and outside your house. In rare cases if can be say a windows update running even when you told it not to.

It appears you have already done the basic testing and I tend to agree with your ISP there is not issue with your equipment or the the connection to your house. This unfortunately means it is likely a issue between ISP or maybe the game company ISP or server....but discord has their own servers. Even if you were to find the problem you tend to not be able to fix it.

Thing that do not happen all the time tend to be hard to diagnose. What I would do is continue the ping tests but to more IP.

First thing to do is run tracert to one of the game servers you have issues with. The command itself will likely not show anything other than the routers in the path to the game server. It does not run long enough. You could see if the path changes between when it runs good and when it runs bad.....very unlikely.

I would test to 8.8.8.8 instead of google.com. 8.8.8.8 is a google dns server and its ip does not change like google.com can.
The other 2 IP I would would be hop 1 (your router) and hop 2 (generally the first ISP router in their nearest office). I suspect all this will be fine but it is used just to be sure.

The real test it to try to pick other IP in the path. Best if the game server itself will respond to a ping. Not all will because stupid gamer kids will try to DOS attack the server with excessive ping commands. Some router closer to the server should respond.

Unfortunately doing all this will just confirm it is far outside somethings you can change.

So lets say the problem is some fiber between you and the server is being overloaded. This is much more common for Australia and other countries that do not have all the servers located close by. It can and does happen even in the USA or EU but is more rare because there is much more fiber than runs in the oceans.

What you basically have to do it use a different ISP that uses different fiber connections. Most people can't get a different actual ISP but what might work is a VPN service. You would hope you can find a VPN provider that you can get fast access to one of their data centers that then take a different path to the game companies data center. This is very hit and miss since VPN companies buy their internet from different companies. You may have to try a couple. There are a couple so called "gaming" vpn companies that have purchased private data paths to some of the larger game company data center locations. The only name I remember today is exitlag but there are 2 or 3 bigger ones. Problem is these are optimised for certain games and if you are using a game that uses a different data center it might not be any better than any other vpn.

 

[Grobe]

Discord and many games use UDP data protocol to communicate with client computers. This is a data protocol that does not in itself have mechanisms to detect lost packages.

Some network routers is said to be able to prioritize gaming and streaming traffic, but it only helps if the home network equipment was the issue in the first place.

 

[Janeyxsdg]

Thank you for your responses.
I thought I would provide an update and seeking further advice.
The initial speed tests that my ISPs had told me to conduct, they had told me to use the default server.
I conducted a couple of my own tests on the same website (speedtest.net - the Ookla one) by testing to other servers, such as Telstra, Aussie Broadband, GigaComm Pty Ltd, etc.
Out of the 9 Melbourne servers, I had less than 10mbps download and 18mbps upload on 3 servers (namely Telstra) during these hours - which explains my issues with Discord where I cannot hear my friends, but they can hear me without any issues.
I send this evidence to my ISP. They said they sent to to NBN and that the issue was closed as there were no issues to be found. They just said to conduct the same tests in order to open up the issue again, and wait 24-48hrs for a response. I am afraid that they might look at the issue, say the same things and close the ticket after 48 hours for me to rinse and repeat.
I am unsure what to do next and how to push the issue to actually get some action taken, rather just simply "do a test, we'll give you a response in 2 days."

Thank you for reading and responding to my issues.

 

[bill001g]

They are never going to fix this for you.

Speedtest is a very poor tool to test this it is affected by too many things to say what the problem is. Even 10mbps is more than enough bandwidth for discord. Unless you are doing video discord uses in the kbps not even 1mbps. It is not really a bandwidth issue....well directly.

This is more a packet loss issue which may or may not be caused by overloaded routers or circuits.

But the issue is still the same it is likely outside your ISP control. All they can do is open tickets with other ISP they connect to. Then it comes down to any agreements as to how much bandwidth is actually guaranteed to your ISP.

In the end the best thing you yourself can try is some vpn services and hope to get lucky.

 

[Janeyxsdg]

They are never going to fix this for you.

Speedtest is a very poor tool to test this it is affected by too many things to say what the problem is. Even 10mbps is more than enough bandwidth for discord. Unless you are doing video discord uses in the kbps not even 1mbps. It is not really a bandwidth issue....well directly.

This is more a packet loss issue which may or may not be caused by overloaded routers or circuits.

But the issue is still the same it is likely outside your ISP control. All they can do is open tickets with other ISP they connect to. Then it comes down to any agreements as to how much bandwidth is actually guaranteed to your ISP.

In the end the best thing you yourself can try is some vpn services and hope to get lucky.

Thank you for your reply, but I guess I'm losing hope.
My issues with discord is that I can CONNECT to calls of course, as you said, even 1mbps is probably enough. However, I'm getting 5000ping and people I'm talking to are cutting out, sometimes for 5-10 seconds at a time, multiple times in a row. (Shown here:

https://imgur.com/a/mtw7otL

View: https://imgur.com/a/mtw7otL
)
It is just quite frustrating that I'm trying to talk to someone, and I'm constantly asking them to repeat what they said because they keep cutting out.

Would increasing my NBN plan help? Or would I need to change ISPs?
Would changing ISPs even help? Or am I going to have the same problems?

Out of curiosity how do these types of issues like this come about? This problem just randomly popped up one day while I've never had any problems in the past.

Thanks again for your response!

 

[bill001g]

This is what someone using wifi would see of if their main internet connection to their house was some kind of wireless.

You have ethernet and fiber .

Although highly unlikely I would leave a constant ping router and the ISP router (likely hop 2 in a tracert). When discord reports a issue I would check the ping screens. Maybe you get extremely lucky and see something. This really is the only part of the network you can actually fix.

After that not many options it is something in some ISP network. Could be your ISP or another.

Increasing bandwidth makes no difference unless you are already using 100%. The larger ISP plans are kinda a scam. Many people think things run faster or better if they have 1gbit rather than 100mbps. If you download big files a lot it does help but other application like games, netflix, or even discord only use what they need extra will just be left unused. The ISP likes unused bandwidth that way they can sell the same bandwidth to lots of customers.

A different ISP might help but it is unlikely you really have that option.


A vpn is kinda like getting a different ISP but it depends where the problem is since the traffic must go from your house to the vpn provider over your current ISP network.

 

[Janeyxsdg]

This is what someone using wifi would see of if their main internet connection to their house was some kind of wireless.

You have ethernet and fiber .

Although highly unlikely I would leave a constant ping router and the ISP router (likely hop 2 in a tracert). When discord reports a issue I would check the ping screens. Maybe you get extremely lucky and see something. This really is the only part of the network you can actually fix.

After that not many options it is something in some ISP network. Could be your ISP or another.

Increasing bandwidth makes no difference unless you are already using 100%. The larger ISP plans are kinda a scam. Many people think things run faster or better if they have 1gbit rather than 100mbps. If you download big files a lot it does help but other application like games, netflix, or even discord only use what they need extra will just be left unused. The ISP likes unused bandwidth that way they can sell the same bandwidth to lots of customers.

A different ISP might help but it is unlikely you really have that option.


A vpn is kinda like getting a different ISP but it depends where the problem is since the traffic must go from your house to the vpn provider over your current ISP network.

Thank you again for your help.
My ISP has officially closed my case one last time, because as you predicted, they are never going to fix it for me.

This is what someone using wifi would see of if their main internet connection to their house was some kind of wireless.

You have ethernet and fiber

This is why I am frustrated, because I understand having shoddy connection to games sometimes. but Discord SHOULD. NOT. BE. AN. ISSUE. Especially on ethernet.

I'm not quite sure... what is a hop 2 tracert test, and how do I conduct one?

A vpn is kinda like getting a different ISP but it depends where the problem is since the traffic must go from your house to the vpn provider over your current ISP network.

Do you have a VPN you would recommend? I always see VPN ads, but not sure which ones to trust, especially for my case.
I know you recommended Exitlag for gaming, but I was told by people who use it, that it doesn't work for Discord.
Or should I open up another forum post for this inquiry?

Thank you again for your time and your responses.

 

[lantis3]

Similar threads have been discussed over and over.

Question - Ping spikes only on international servers

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[SOLVED] - I have ping issues on Roblox ?

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Pingtracer
https://github.com/bp2008/pingtracer

Many VPN providers offer free trials. You can only test yourself. No one lives in your neighborhood.

You also should know VPN not necessarily will fix your issue, however.

 

[Janeyxsdg]

Thank you for the ping tracer.
Just tried trialing Exitlag. Unfortunately, because my speeds drop so low at times, I still drop from games. Its the only known VPN to work with Lost Ark, so guess its a game I'll have to drop.

 

[Janeyxsdg]

Just with the two forum posts, they're unrelated as I am not experiencing ping spikes on only international servers, I'm experiencing them on Discord and games like League of Legends and Overwatch, which I have local server access to.
I am also not using Wi-Fi, I am experiencing these issues on ethernet.

 

[Janeyxsdg]

I have been in contact with my ISP still as I've escalated it into a complaint.
More background information:

• I am with More Telecom. They use the Vocus Communications network.
• I have an NBN 50 plan, which is 50mbps download, 17mbps upload
• They only ask for speed tests and sometimes ping tests.
• they only speed test using speedtest.net with Ookla
  

I understand that speed tests are unreliable, but that is the information that my ISP is looking for.
I have speed tested during peak hours (problem time periods) with all 9 other Melbourne networks, I only have issues with the Telstra network. I keep insisting that me having <8mbps download on speed tests to the Telstra network is unacceptable. However, they keep insisting that it should not matter as More Telecom is on the Vocus Communications network and I am not allowed to test to other servers. Does it matter that my tests to another server is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the server from my ISP?
Again, I understand that speed tests are unreliable, but it is what my ISP has requested.

They tried explaining that my upload was too high.
They gave me data that in February my download was 250gb and upload was 80gb. In December, I had 400gb download and 118gb download. In February, I was experiencing problems, December was when my service was completely fine. They are saying now, that I an uploading too much and they "don't look at this past data, only current data, and current data says that the upload is too high"
I understand that upload definitely affects my download, however, I have not been doing anything differently and my upload just as high, if not lower than when I was not having issues.
All these issues still persist on an ethernet connection, with a bridge test (connection straight to the NBN box).
I just need advice on how to argue my point.

While I have only tried one VPN, I am a little skeptical that trying others will work, because my speed is so low that I briefly drop out of anything I do. Even web browsing. If I browse at just the right time, it will end up loading forever until I refresh my page. Even Youtube will buffer if I buffer it at a bad time and I play it at x2 speed.

Losing all hope, but I really don't have the option to change ISPs.

 

[Ralston18]

I do not believe that all hope is lost. There is more to be learned.

Is the following link relevant to your internet connection?

https://www.nbnco.com.au/learn/network-technology/hybrid-fibre-coaxial-explained-hfc-3

I watched the videos provided and took a look at the referenced "Preparing_Guide".

Note the diagrams in the Guide. Are you able to provide some simple diagram showing all of your devices and how they are connected?

Here is a basic line diagram that you can further edit and correct if necessary.

ISP === (fiber) ===> nbn connection box [UNI-D1 port] ---->[WAN ??? Port] Router [LAN Port] ----> [LAN Port]

With other Router LAN ports -----> Other wired network devices.

And Router antennas ~~~~> Wireless network devices.

Is there a modem in the path? What make and model router is being used? One reason for that question the instructions show the nbn connection box being connected to a yellow LAN port on the router. I would expect a WAN port. Some router ports are configurable.

A more generic line diagram would be:

ISP === (coax, DSL, fiber) ===> Modem ---->[WAN Port] Router [LAN Port] ----> [LAN Port] Other wired devices

and

Wireless ~~~~> Wireless network devices


Again the objective is to show your network, my diagrams likely too generic and not fully applicable to your network environment.

Also: are there coaxial cables still in use? Any splitters (also called filters)? Splitters are very small: one coax cable going in and 2,3, 4 or more cables exiting. Splitters are cheaply made and tend to falter and fail over time due to corrosion.

Unused coax connections must be properly terminated versus the dust caps that are often attached. If covering the end with a dust cap is even done.....

FYI:

Terminator vs Dust Cap

The end objective being to ensure that the existing network is as it should be with respect to the devices, ports, and connections between devices.

Your diagram does not need to be a work of art. Just easy to follow with everything identified. Make and model devices as applicable. Especially nbn box, modem, router, access points (if any).

Figuring it all out may require following (tracing) wires/cables, etc. around. Do so safely: no climbing on poles and roofs.

And, while tracing the wiring, look for signs of damage: bare conductor showing, rodent chews, corrosion, moisture, pinched or kinked wires, nails/staples into cables. Tightly stretched cables. Any sort of damage.

Seeing the proverbial "big picture" can be very helpful.

 

[Janeyxsdg]

I do not believe that all hope is lost. There is more to be learned.

Is the following link relevant to your internet connection?

https://www.nbnco.com.au/learn/network-technology/hybrid-fibre-coaxial-explained-hfc-3

I watched the videos provided and took a look at the referenced "Preparing_Guide".

Note the diagrams in the Guide. Are you able to provide some simple diagram showing all of your devices and how they are connected?

Here is a basic line diagram that you can further edit and correct if necessary.

ISP === (fiber) ===> nbn connection box [UNI-D1 port] ---->[WAN ??? Port] Router [LAN Port] ----> [LAN Port]

With other Router LAN ports -----> Other wired network devices.

And Router antennas ~~~~> Wireless network devices.

Is there a modem in the path? What make and model router is being used? One reason for that question the instructions show the nbn connection box being connected to a yellow LAN port on the router. I would expect a WAN port. Some router ports are configurable.

A more generic line diagram would be:

ISP === (coax, DSL, fiber) ===> Modem ---->[WAN Port] Router [LAN Port] ----> [LAN Port] Other wired devices

and

Wireless ~~~~> Wireless network devices


Again the objective is to show your network, my diagrams likely too generic and not fully applicable to your network environment.

Also: are there coaxial cables still in use? Any splitters (also called filters)? Splitters are very small: one coax cable going in and 2,3, 4 or more cables exiting. Splitters are cheaply made and tend to falter and fail over time due to corrosion.

Unused coax connections must be properly terminated versus the dust caps that are often attached. If covering the end with a dust cap is even done.....

FYI:

Terminator vs Dust Cap

The end objective being to ensure that the existing network is as it should be with respect to the devices, ports, and connections between devices.

Your diagram does not need to be a work of art. Just easy to follow with everything identified. Make and model devices as applicable. Especially nbn box, modem, router, access points (if any).

Figuring it all out may require following (tracing) wires/cables, etc. around. Do so safely: no climbing on poles and roofs.

And, while tracing the wiring, look for signs of damage: bare conductor showing, rodent chews, corrosion, moisture, pinched or kinked wires, nails/staples into cables. Tightly stretched cables. Any sort of damage.

Seeing the proverbial "big picture" can be very helpful.

I really do appreciate you taking so much effort to explain the connections and how it works. It will definitely be useful in the future when things actually start wearing and tearing.
Unfortunately, I do not believe it is a physical connection issue as it only happens during certain times of the day - peak hours.

I think the final straw and the final call has been made to my ISP. They insisted that speed tests to other local servers mean nothing. I am still experiencing disconnects with normal ping and high speeds to their network, while getting less than 10mpbs to one of the biggest servers in Australia/Melbourne.
I'll dispute the issues through the Ombudsman.
Thank you everyone for your help and your time spent reading through my issues and replying.

They are never going to fix this for you.

Sadly, I think this is the most accurate and relevant response to my post. Thank you.

 

[Janeyxsdg]

Update (just in case anyone is experiencing similar issues and isn't looking to change ISP)
Before the end of my monthly cycle, they suggested I try upgrading my plan to NBN100 (100 download, 20 upload) for no extra cost if I cancel before the end of my cycle.

The upgrade actually fixed 99% of my problems and I don't have slow download speeds to particular servers anymore. I still occasionally experience slight instability no more than twice a night, but far cry from the consistent disconnections I was experiencing before.
Its still not as good as it originally was, but for an additional $4/month, I'll take it over switching for another more expensive ISP.